PES2010 discussion thread

[Dr Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I still don't think this is the year we get the top-quality PES we've all been waiting for, but I think completely giving up on the series if PES 2010 turns out to be crap would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, PES can and will come back strongly, when it will do that nobody knows. I'll give PES 2010 a chance and hope it's a good game, but the chances of it going from an absolutely shocking game to a brilliant one in one year seems seem fairly remote.

Good post Rob.

It's not a case of cutting your nose off to spite your face, it's a case of actually falling out of love with the game. It's been so long since PES5 and everything since has been cack IMO (incl the 35% complete game of PES6, Im talking next gen here)

I have just simply become slightly bored of football games since the new consoles have come out, becasue they are not that enjoyable to play. If PES2010 is another pile of shit then i am just presuming they do not have the ability to be able to write code to deliver a satisfying experience.

Considering we are 4 years into this generation and PES is still running a PS2 game, smells of "we do not know what to do with the new hardware" so we have had this miss mash from a company that does not know if they should stick or twist at the exspense of quality.

FIFA is going in the right direction but it gives me very little enjoyment and zero satisfaction when scoring = pretty boring after circa 4 weeks of playing, so maybe the wow factor has been removed from my brain having played........what 6/7 football games since launch cus they are all very average.

The most I played on the 360 was PES5 and that says it all, so i'm not throwing my dummy out I'm simply drawing a line under a franchise thats drowning not waving.

I'm actually excited for the first time since PES5 though because on first impressions it has a next gen feel about it, even the little gameplay video showed no silly feints and turns and a different pace with hugely advanced graphics. Once the animation is in and we have the 360 rumour confirmed then I may just be able to label PES2010 as better than my favourite all time PES 5.

Here's hoping................................

 

[Lons]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree with Badgerman that FIFA is only widely regarded as the better game because PES hasn't turned up. I actually think PES5 is a better game than FIFA 09.
FIFA is fairly impressive in some areas, particularly the freedom you get from manual passing (particularly for long balls, that's why I can't play PES for long any more without getting so frustrated, you see players in space in the distance and you know there is absolutely no way you will get the ball to them in the way you want to).

The PS2/PSP versions of PES do a lot of things better than FIFA though:
Dipping volleys/shots and powerful shots
Flying headers/volleys where they really attack the ball
Beating defenders/creating a yard of space with a change of pace or direction rather than a flashy trick
Goal line scrambles and blocks - the best moment i've had on a PES game would have to be when I ran a defender onto the line when my keeper was rounded on PES5 and diving headed it away from right on the line in the last few minutes to hold onto a win
Keepers reaction times/reactions to close-in shots (sometimes they dive the wrong way or stand still)
Keeper mistakes - It's a bad thing having too many ala 08 and 09, but keepers with low skills should make some mistakes.
Player individuality - Playing as England, if you need a goal a good tactic would be to get Beckham in a good position and get him to cross it in, on FIFA it doesn't really matter. I'm of the opinion though that player individuality isn't such a good idea to exaggerate in online play though, as it just increases the chances of people constantly using the same top teams all the time, it should be down to gamer skill rather than player attributes IMO.
Unpredictability - Crosses can go in, shots from seemingly ridiculous angles/distances can go in, any shot can be missed, own goals can be scored (i've not seen a cross hit a defender on FIFA and go in)

Why can such less powerful machines provide all that yet the 360/PS3 (and PC) can only bring us scripted football games in which all of the goals are either the same (FIFA) or cheap/unrealistic (PES)?

I still don't think this is the year we get the top-quality PES we've all been waiting for, but I think completely giving up on the series if PES 2010 turns out to be crap would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, PES can and will come back strongly, when it will do that nobody knows. I'll give PES 2010 a chance and hope it's a good game, but the chances of it going from an absolutely shocking game to a brilliant one in one year seems seem fairly remote.

I am surprised RobGood post seriously

 

[pepper63]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

All being said,we just don't know yet so your anxieties are understood but lets give it a chance.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree with Badgerman that FIFA is only widely regarded as the better game because PES hasn't turned up. I actually think PES5 is a better game than FIFA 09.

FIFA is fairly impressive in some areas, particularly the freedom you get from manual passing (particularly for long balls, that's why I can't play PES for long any more without getting so frustrated, you see players in space in the distance and you know there is absolutely no way you will get the ball to them in the way you want to).

The PS2/PSP versions of PES do a lot of things better than FIFA though:
Dipping volleys/shots and powerful shots
Flying headers/volleys where they really attack the ball
Beating defenders/creating a yard of space with a change of pace or direction rather than a flashy trick
Goal line scrambles and blocks - the best moment i've had on a PES game would have to be when I ran a defender onto the line when my keeper was rounded on PES5 and diving headed it away from right on the line in the last few minutes to hold onto a win
Keepers reaction times/reactions to close-in shots (sometimes they dive the wrong way or stand still)
Keeper mistakes - It's a bad thing having too many ala 08 and 09, but keepers with low skills should make some mistakes.
Player individuality - Playing as England, if you need a goal a good tactic would be to get Beckham in a good position and get him to cross it in, on FIFA it doesn't really matter. I'm of the opinion though that player individuality isn't such a good idea to exaggerate in online play though, as it just increases the chances of people constantly using the same top teams all the time, it should be down to gamer skill rather than player attributes IMO.
Unpredictability - Crosses can go in, shots from seemingly ridiculous angles/distances can go in, any shot can be missed, own goals can be scored (i've not seen a cross hit a defender on FIFA and go in)

Why can such less powerful machines provide all that yet the 360/PS3 (and PC) can only bring us scripted football games in which all of the goals are either the same (FIFA) or cheap/unrealistic (PES)?

I still don't think this is the year we get the top-quality PES we've all been waiting for, but I think completely giving up on the series if PES 2010 turns out to be crap would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, PES can and will come back strongly, when it will do that nobody knows. I'll give PES 2010 a chance and hope it's a good game, but the chances of it going from an absolutely shocking game to a brilliant one in one year seems seem fairly remote.

My word, that was one impressive post Rob. I cant decide which was better, yours or Badgermans. So you both get a gold star from me. Brilliant posts chaps.

 

[drekkard]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I tend to agree in many aspects with the post of Rob, but not entirely. I think there are many points that are not accurate, or at least not if you have played both games at the same level.

The PS2/PSP versions of PES do a lot of things better than FIFA though:
Keepers reaction times/reactions to close-in shots (sometimes they dive the wrong way or stand still)
Keeper mistakes - It's a bad thing having too many ala 08 and 09, but keepers with low skills should make some mistakes.

-> Just play manual in Fifa 09 and you will see also this in a very realistic way. Don't know why on Semi and Auto goalkeepeers turn into superheros that never fail. I'm pretty good at manual shooting and I can beat the keeepr one on one in so many ways... except dribbling.

The problem in PES was that rounding the keeper was bloody easy, every time you faked a shot you could bet him. So I don't think any PES is better than Fifa 09 in manual shooting.

In FIFA I do have seen great plays involving the keeper and some keeper mistakes, but you have to put shooting to manual and master it and I know it can be fustrating the first days or even forever to some. Yesterday I did a great goal with a very narrow angle and the ball went through the legs of the keeper, very similar to Villa goal to Arsenal some hours later.

Player individuality - Playing as England, if you need a goal a good tactic would be to get Beckham in a good position and get him to cross it in, on FIFA it doesn't really matter. I'm of the opinion though that player individuality isn't such a good idea to exaggerate in online play though, as it just increases the chances of people constantly using the same top teams all the time, it should be down to gamer skill rather than player attributes IMO.

--> I prefer to have manual controls with a little individuality than the opposite, though it's a debate that can be endless and depends on personal opinions.

That said, in Fifa 09 the main thing that kills individuality somehow is passing. There's a huge difference in shooting abbilities (again, speaking of manual), strength, pace, dribbling technique, heading, etc.. but passing tends to be very average for all players as almost everyone agrees.

On the other hand, I find that PES overexagerates things and should be a little more subtle. For exmaple, if you shoot with a good player it goes in most of the times, or great crossers always put the ball in the head of the strikers, and so on... But that's because passing and shooting is heavily scripted. ITo me, it's a very high cost to pay, even if overall the feeling of Fifa is not to the level of pes. I would prefer PES to go full manual and achieve the same individuality, though it's not possible in just one year of development.

Unpredictability - Crosses can go in, shots from seemingly ridiculous angles/distances can go in, any shot can be missed, own goals can be scored (i've not seen a cross hit a defender on FIFA and go in)

--> Playing manual crosses, and I've seen quite a few crosses that went int, some own goals because I did low hard crosses and the defender puts it in, some own goals when trying to clear crosses or passes, some very narrow-angled goals, some goals from long long range, goals because of shot deflections... It's only a matter of how you play the game, I think...

The problem I have with pes about unpredictability is that it's just not unpredictable. Your shots and passes are decided by the cpu, so you end up missing great chances only because the cpu doesn't want you to score. And you know it. How many times I've been 1 on 1 vs the keeper, aimed to a certain corner and said to myself: "It doesn't matter, the ball won't go there anyway, it will end up to the keeper, the post or inches wide just because I'm not allowed to score right now."

It's something that always has happened. You can miss empty net sitters no matter where you're aiming. The outcome of any action is decided more because of what the game wants to happen than what you as a gamer want to do. Some find it great, I just can't take it anymore. That's why Fifa 09, even with its critical flaws, it's that good to some of us, because when you play manual there's no messing with your decisions. If I want to shoot 32º to the left, there it goes (more or less depending on the player).

I would say unpredictability is a goal to reach, but we differ on how it must be achieved. I prefer manualness over scriptedness, even if it makes the games less exciting.

Why can such less powerful machines provide all that yet the 360/PS3 (and PC) can only bring us scripted football games in which all of the goals are either the same (FIFA) or cheap/unrealistic (PES)?

I think the answer here is how you play the game. I could score the same goal in pes over and over again and have cheap plays in fifa all day. At the end, the only way I have to enjoy a football game right now is playing Fifa all manual with friends in offline multiplayer. It depends GREATLY on how you play and who you play. I hope Fifa or PES forces the players to play more build up and stress more on passing and positioning, as it happens in reality.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

alot of backslapping in here haha

are you all budding journalists?

Just a bit close to the bone...

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

No fucking ways is that Rob92s post. I suspect he was abducted by some alien life force and that was actually ΔΨΘΛΩΠΛΦΞ from the planet zort.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

No fucking ways is that Rob92s post. I suspect he was abducted by some alien life force and that was actually ΔΨΘΛΩΠΛΦΞ from the planet zort.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just came across this while scouring for info on PES 2010. Its for the Wii version. Really like the idea and hopefully its implemented for the PS3 and 360 versions as well. It would heavily add a different dimension to the game. No more gamers having their fingers glued on R1.

Konami announces key advances as Wii football title continues to innovate

Likewise, a decisive addition to PES 2010 is an all-new game balance system that affects both attacking and defensive elements of the game. The player in possession now has ‘instantaneous stamina’ in addition to his overall stamina, which prevents unbeatable runs from being used as a constant tactic. Overuse of sprinting will have an adverse affect on the player’s body balance and their immediate control of the ball. As in a real match, excessive attempts of trying to gain possession will drain the player’s stamina, further demonstrating the Wii game’s realism.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just came across this while scouring for info on PES 2010. Its for the Wii version. Really like the idea and hopefully its implemented for the PS3 and 360 versions as well. It would heavily add a different dimension to the game. No more gamers having their fingers glued on R1.

Great find Lami, fingers, toes, ears crossed for this feature on Next Gen.

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just came across this while scouring for info on PES 2010. Its for the Wii version. Really like the idea and hopefully its implemented for the PS3 and 360 versions as well. It would heavily add a different dimension to the game. No more gamers having their fingers glued on R1.

Nice find, mate. That sounds really good. The instantaneous and overall stamina thing sounds like it's been copied from Fifa, but hopefully Konami implement it properly so that players can't sprint-press the whole match like in the other game.

 

[Putuco Malo]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Great news if also apply to PS3/360/PC version... now some guys can finally learn to play football and avoid smashing the run button ^^

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Nice find, mate. That sounds really good. The instantaneous and overall stamina thing sounds like it's been copied from Fifa, but hopefully Konami implement it properly so that players can't sprint-press the whole match like in the other game.

I found the idea in Fifa 09 had its pro's and con's regards building up speed gradually. The benefit being you slightly elimate the current Eto, Messi speed freaks of online PES. The downside is that most of the top players have their initial burst of speed over the first 5-10 yards. Like Gazza in his heyday, he certainly didnt have lightening speed, but his change of pace, quick feet combined with his strength over the first 5-10 yards were enough to beat most players. When he got older, he lost that burst and was less effective for it.

Gazza is my all time hero by the way, just for the record.

Whilst on Fifa and PES stealing idea's, I really wish they would steal Fifa's penalty system as I personally found it flawless. Even player's stats seem to have an effect in that scenario. From what I have read it doesnt seem PES has stolen the exact idea, which is a shame as EA for me have it spot on. PES penalties are a horrible lottery.

Also, off topic again but I dont understand where this PES 2009 keepers are hapless fools comes from ?

PES 2008, yes, 100 billion %. But PES 2009, the keepers are good and realistic.

Have I been playing the same game as everyone else ?

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Its wierd how the wii version is not made for just anyone to pick up and play on what really is a pick up and play console.
But the consoles for the supposed hardcore gamers have the pick up and play, sprint fest game. It boggles the mind I tell ya.

 

[Putuco Malo]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

PES 2008 keepers are horrible, PES 2009 keepers are BAD...

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

PES 2008 keepers are horrible, PES 2009 keepers are BAD...

Hmmmmmmmnnnnn ..............

I dont really understand how they are bad to be honest. Maybe it's because alot of the time I play with my ML keepers, who are both excellent. In saying that, when I first started playing my ML with Boro, their default keepers were pretty useless, but then again so were their stats. So they did exactly as it said on the tin.

I remember 5 seasons into my BAL I got a transfer to Chelsea, and the manager put me in the reserves to prove my worth. Funnily enough Chelsea's manager was the only manager to do that after signing me, I was a pretty established player and expected to be on the bench at the very least.

Anyway, my point is that I sat in the reserves for 3 matches as I couldnt score past Cech, he was amazing. I was a striker in my BAL as well so scoring was the only real way to make an impact. But Petr made it bloody tough for me, I know that much. And when I did finally score, it was off a follow up to a parried shot from another player that he had no right in saving in the first place. And he got his hand to my follow-up, but luckily it went in and my Chelsea era began.

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree that Cech, Buffon and Van der Sar are excellent keepers but the keepers in general are more susceptible to parries in 2008 and 2009 compared to pes5&6.

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Also, off topic again but I dont understand where this PES 2009 keepers are hapless fools comes from ?

PES 2008, yes, 100 billion %. But PES 2009, the keepers are good and realistic.

Have I been playing the same game as everyone else ?

I'm beginning to think that myself.

PES 2008 keepers were truly awful but they're not bad in 2009. My main gripes are that they spill too many easy saves and sometimes they seem to let the ball go through them, but I rarely concede goals where I think it is purely the keeper at fault. However, I think the keepers are better in every other PES game except 2008, so I'm not saying they are great.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just came across this while scouring for info on PES 2010. Its for the Wii version. Really like the idea and hopefully its implemented for the PS3 and 360 versions as well. It would heavily add a different dimension to the game. No more gamers having their fingers glued on R1.

So only the player in possession has the additional stamina bar? The defenders can run for miles and miles, but the attacking player is crippled? It clearly says "the player in possession", which is stupid and not realistic. I hope someone clarifies this.

EDIT: It actually says the "instantaneous stamina" bar doesn't affect stamina at all, but ball control. That's my bad. Though why wouldn't tired players off the ball also loose body balance and such like the player in possession, so that they can be more easily outmuscled etc? Not sure they thought this through to the end. The proper implementation in my opinion would be that _all_ players have 2 stamina bars, a la FIFA, and that they all suffer stat reductions when either is low (some stats only affecting ball control will only be noticeable for the ball carrier).

 

[sindii]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It should be energy systems ie you can sprint but only for so long then need a short while to recover before you can do it again, so either pass, run steady but gain recovery alot slower or hold the ball to recover but lose balance and strength for a while as that's what happens after a sprint.

In games it's always long term stamina - sprinters, 800m runners and long distance runners all use different energy systems, this should be applied to games.

 

[Dr Force]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Its wierd how the wii version is not made for just anyone to pick up and play on what really is a pick up and play console.
But the consoles for the supposed hardcore gamers have the pick up and play, sprint fest game. It boggles the mind I tell ya.

agreed

09 keepers are stupid, can't hold anything and using the sprint button to go past them in 1 on 1 situations is a guarunteed goal......................completely unrealistic and highly predicatable.

 

[Andy]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Hey lads had a good think last night about the rise and fall of pes and after came to the conclusion that this year could actually be better than we hope for (this is not adam in disguise lol).let me explain.......


pes5
Well what can i say that already aint been said,nice tight gameplay,perfect pace on the ball,vapours's from players mouths,cross kit selection,good mo caps ect.To me this was the best sim of the game there has ever been.The only gripes that people mainly had if i remember correctly were the ref could never keep the whistle in his pocket and this is one of my main points, people didnt like the fact that if you were playing on 3 0r 4 stars rating (i'll forget 5 star that was for superhumans lol) say as for arguments sake brazil against poland the game seemed way too hard,dont get me wrong if brazil were playing argentina then that would be fine.But even back then i think konami did listen but nothing like what there doing now which brings me on to.....


pes6
Konami address the problem with the refs whistle but more crucially they address the "game too hard" problem by increasing the pace of the game. making it arcade gameplay, this imo was where the slippery slope started.A lot of people would most probably be offended by that but thats just my opinion.Some people are still playing it online i think.It may be a solid connection but can you really remember how the experience was? i,ll jog yer memories most games were mainly against inter or brazil because they couldnt stand the thought of losing at any cost especially with the help of that brazilian bloke off the cover (his name deserts me)who had outrageously high stats (seabass's fave player "simulation be damned").Couple this with the cutback kings and everything just became dull,although konami did sort the cutback problem with the next edition which brings me nicely too......


pes 2008

Well what is there too say the worst one in the whole series konami make the supposedly transition to next gen.People say its just a blip because of the next gen excuse.B.S. its because konami rest on there laurels after everybody telling them how wonderful pes 6 was,so they thought we will concentrate on graphics and the whole new physics of the game we dont really need to work on that much. so like i mentioned previously the only positive i can see was the cutback problem being resolved.Cue arsekicking time.


pes 2009

After konami have stopped rubbing their tanned backsides they decide to get back on track, compared to 08 it was a definate step in the right direction slightly more competitive AI but nothing like we have come to expect but they still insist on this arcady shite "game too hard problem" theres not really much more i can say about this game as you lot have covered most things already but this game was the way back....


pes 2010

Having seen the j league match video albeit ps2 you can see the pace of pes5 is back. it looks like a game where you wanna play again and again with plenty of ooohhh's when you crack the bar from 25 yards just like it was.Couple this with the next gen graphics which are superb and the snippets of info we've had then this could well be the year that konami is king. (cue fifa fanboys telling me why i am wrong) I may be wrong but i am just trying to follow the pattern of whats happened in the past and follow the evolution of the series.i just hope with 2010 they still keep the cutback kings at bay.

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think I'm going to hog the credit for the current harmony we're experiencing in this thread.

Finally, after 5 long years, I can move onto the afterlife

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Don't know what to make of this so I thought I'd post it here.

Was just looking through the BBC Sport RSS feed and one of the stories was a bunch of 1xtra footballer interviews, with a PES related bit. CLICK HERE

The fourth highest scorer of all time in the England shirt, Michael Owen is the face of Pro Evo 8.

So Owen will be on the box then. But "Pro Evo 8"?

 

[Hella]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Don't know what to make of this so I thought I'd post it here.

Was just looking through the BBC Sport RSS feed and one of the stories was a bunch of 1xtra footballer interviews, with a PES related bit. CLICK HERE


So Owen will be on the box then. But "Pro Evo 8"?

My guess is that they are talking about PES 2008.

Pretty sure that Messi and Torres will be the cover stars in PES 2010.

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Perhaps it's an old article then - shouldn't be though because it's in the RSS feed from this evening. I notice they don't say which team Owen is playing for at the time of the interview, maybe they do during the interview...

 

[Lami]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Wasn't he on pes 2008?

 

[danhammer]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Wasn't he on pes 2008?

yes he pulled a hamstring on the photo shoot

 

[goalgerd]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

so will we getting news this coming tuesday,ive heard alot of journos will be getting a 70% game playtest

 

[Andy]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Perhaps it's an old article then - shouldn't be though because it's in the RSS feed from this evening. I notice they don't say which team Owen is playing for at the time of the interview, maybe they do during the interview...

no chris he says at the start of the podcast something like "heres the face of the new pro ev ect ect 2008 soccer game michael owen" but very strange how it turns up now.



edit Anyway that was two years ago konami wouldnt touch him now not with him being soiled goods.