PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
Hopefully we get two great games this year but I get the feeling that PES still won't satisfy me because of how automatic it will still be - not that I think that's a "bad" thing, people can argue that makes the game a better simulation because the best footballers *do* make things seem automatic. But I'm part of the camp that thinks if you want it to be that automatic, you may as well set both teams to CPU and watch. I want to be in control of everything and if I make a balls-up with a world class player then - guess what - that's why I'm playing the game, to make balls-ups and to do great things as well.

So I'm really glad there's two different games with two different angles. :D
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Honest as always Chris. Here's hoping to, I'll even give Fifa 10 a whirl in hope that is sorts out the issues I have with it, even though I'm a believer in the 'stat' based player simulation.

I still think Fifa is stunning to watch, I would love myself to find it stunning to play.

On a different note, last night I played another lag free player match on PES 2009 online. The guy I played chose Greece and never made one mis-placed pass in 90 minutes. He beat me well 4-2, I was Portugal, but what a game we had.

I just couldnt believe he never made one stray pass all game.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
FIFA also feels automatic to me aswell though Chris. Alot of it still feels on rails and also the response times dont do yo any favours when wanting to perform an action on screen.

The day any game produces a simulation that you completely control will be in another generation IMO.
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Stop playing FIFA on assisted controls then, they should make it two different games. Assisted FIFA and real FIFA, because then everyone would see the difference so much easier.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Leo said:
Stop playing FIFA on assisted controls then, they should make it two different games. Assisted FIFA and real FIFA, because then everyone would see the difference so much easier.
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I don't play on assissted controls mr presumptious.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
I don't believe Badger is playing FIFA after months of taking the piss out of anyone who dared suggest it was a viable alternative!
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I have played WE10 to the point where my 3 strikers on ML have 500 goals each.

I think it was a gift to my sanity that I opted to try another footy game to see how it measures up, see what can be done and where we are now etc. The frustrating thing is that we're using games such as WE9LE as yardsticks for football games of today.

And what Dr Force said about the lack of emotion when it comes to scoring I found to be pretty close to the mark. Scoring a goal is like intercourse, woop woop, high fives all round. In PES it felt as if it was with my darling Scarlett, with Fifa it felt as if it was with old lefty. Something that you quite quickly become somewhat familiar with.

I live in hope.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The thing that summed fifa 09 up for me was ages ago when somebody commented that after about three weeks it all seemed a bit samo samo.this as always been the case with fifa for me,although i must admit i havent tried it on a console myself but with that comment it seemed all to familiar.And as for the pc version well you obviously know how cack that is.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Badgerman said:
And what Dr Force said about the lack of emotion when it comes to scoring I found to be pretty close to the mark. Scoring a goal is like intercourse, woop woop, high fives all round. In PES it felt as if it was with my darling Scarlett, with Fifa it felt as if it was with old lefty. Something that you quite quickly become somewhat familiar with.

I live in hope.
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That's one of the reasons why I gave up on Fifa09 a few months back. The majority of goals in Fifa09 come from a finesse finish after being put 1-on-1 with the keeper from a through ball. When I went back to PES I was instantly reminded of the variety of goals you can score in that game - from long range wonder-strikes to scrappy goalmouth scrambles - and that's why I think scoring in PES never gets dull. Scoring a goal in PES still gives you that buzz that it always did back in the PS2 days.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
Scoring a goal in PES still gives you that buzz that it always did back in the PS2 days.
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See PES2008/2009 is the first time in the series where it lost that for me.

Every goal I score in those games now is ridiculous. You can do good build up play etc. but when you get a sight of goal, no matter where you are, you can score. That would be a good thing if you scored from those positions now and then, as opposed to practically every single time, thanks to the goalkeepers who all seem to have graduated from the Stevie Wonder School of Goalkeeping with flying colours.

So the satisfaction of scoring in PES has died in my experience, it's "oh look, I scored from the edge of the box again, hmmm this isn't right" whereas in FIFA when you do score a pearler it's like "WOW, you don't see that very often" - in FIFA you don't see them anywhere near often enough, something like once every 100 games if you don't use the finesse button, but I'd rather that I had to work to score a goal.

I should say though, lots of people have mastered the finesse button shot and I was getting pissed off with it online last time I played. But I've tried a few and I can't seem to master it. Either way the new goalkeeping tweaks should sort that out, hopefully.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
Scoring a goal in PES still gives you that buzz that it always did back in the PS2 days.
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Yeah maybe if you stick the controller down your pants and feel the vibration.

It's gone so far downhill from the PS2 games, PES now feels like you're playing a game full of quicktime events, you press a button in time with something on screen and it does it all for you.

You were right about FIFA though at least, the only way anyone ever scores on that is a close finish with the finesse shot.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
See PES2008/2009 is the first time in the series where it lost that for me.

Every goal I score in those games now is ridiculous. You can do good build up play etc. but when you get a sight of goal, no matter where you are, you can score. That would be a good thing if you scored from those positions now and then, as opposed to practically every single time, thanks to the goalkeepers who all seem to have graduated from the Stevie Wonder School of Goalkeeping with flying colours.

So the satisfaction of scoring in PES has died in my experience, it's "oh look, I scored from the edge of the box again, hmmm this isn't right" whereas in FIFA when you do score a pearler it's like "WOW, you don't see that very often" - in FIFA you don't see them anywhere near often enough, something like once every 100 games if you don't use the finesse button, but I'd rather that I had to work to score a goal.

I should say though, lots of people have mastered the finesse button shot and I was getting pissed off with it online last time I played. But I've tried a few and I can't seem to master it. Either way the new goalkeeping tweaks should sort that out, hopefully.
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I must disagree there though mate. After getting beat by Greece and that guy who never misplaced a pass the whole game, and that was because he kept it simple.(I must admit it was nice to watch.) We played again, he chose Chelsea, I went for Man Utd. The game was completely different to our previous international encounter. Van der Sar and Cech were outstanding in the nets. The game ended 0-0. Scholes played outstanding, spraying balls for fun from the DMF role and the touches that Berbatov produced were spectacular for a big man.

I honestly dont think the keepers are bad at all, and the best in the world are almost unbeatable at times. I hit the bar with a Ronaldo free-kick from 35 yards in the final minute and it was possibly the best 0-0 I have ever played in.

Scoring from the edge of the box isnt easy, far from it. There are so many variables that are required to be correct to get the perfect strike. Body balance, ability, favoured foot, unpressured, the ball out of your feet, etc etc etc. If you get all those right, then you deserve to be making the keeper work to keep it out. A couple of times I had a chance from 25 yards out, and I knew I rushed the attempt, some of the aformentioned variables were not quite right and the subsequent shot did exactly what it should have done, missed the target.

I'm quite liking this online lark, especially when people play with non-super teams and play football as opposed to sprinting like Usain Bolt on speed.

As for the finesse shot on Fifa, well that must be the most unrealistic part of Fifa 09 and needs removing, quickly.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
When I went back to PES I was instantly reminded of the variety of goals you can score in that game - from long range wonder-strikes to scrappy goalmouth scrambles - and that's why I think scoring in PES never gets dull. Scoring a goal in PES still gives you that buzz that it always did back in the PS2 days.
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I have a goal saved that a mate scored against me. I have never seen anything like it since, and would have bet my house on the fact it wasnt possible in PES 2009. Maybe WE6FE, but not PES 2009.

My keeper took a goal kick from the left hand side of his goal. Essien won the header just inside his own half and nodded onto Drogba. With his back to goal, and just outside the semi circle in my half, he turned using his chest and beat my CMF whilst controlling it to ensure it came down on his favoured right foot. He took one beautiful touch then the rest was all about pure timing. As the ball bounced in front of him ( and it was the perfect distance away from his body for this type of strike by the way ) he timed a half volley from all of 40-45 yards. He caught it with the outside of his boot as the ball was rising. ( Which in real life was the exact physics that would determine the type of shot which followed.)

The ball flew high in air but was struck with the outstep of the boot and over the top left corner of the ball. The ball was rising as he struck it, which naturally would give it the height, then swerve, then automatic dip. The ball bascically bent and dipped into the keepers top right hand corner. I couldnt believe what I had saw, neither could he.

When we re-watched the replay, over and over it just got better and better. The ball was dipping as it approached the goal but dipped at the very last minute to ensure the goal. My first question was how was the keeper beaten from that distance ??

After watching the replay again, the keeper took the goal kick from his left hand side, and I focused on what he was doing by switching the camera onto him. Basically after he took the goal kick he took his time to get back into any sort of position and this shot caught him totally off guard as he hadnt made his way back to the centre of the goal. This was realistic in itself as it wasnt like he needed to be ready for what was to come. When he did realise the shot was coming he scrambled to the right side of his goal but he was still 8 yards or so off his line.

The keeper looked shocked the shot was coming his way, tried to back-track, jumped and dived but because of the fierce dip towards the end of the shot he couldnt quite get his fingertips to it as it sailed in the top corner.

I swear, everything about the goal was mind-blowing. The physics with regards Drogba's balance, timing, positioning, power, and I guess luck. I told my mate I'd played BAL for over 1000 hours and never seen anything like that. And I havent seen anything since in 7 seasons of ML.

Thats the beauty of PES, the unpredictabiltity and the fact you know that anything is possible. That's what I love more than anything else.

I will try and upload it and you can see for yourself.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

With all due respect, Chris, I think you are wildly exaggerating things.

Chris Davies said:
See PES2008/2009 is the first time in the series where it lost that for me.

Every goal I score in those games now is ridiculous. You can do good build up play etc. but when you get a sight of goal, no matter where you are, you can score.
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.....as you can in real-life, any player has a chance of scoring from anywhere, but only the best players like Gerrard can do it with any regularity. PES replicates this, Fifa doesn't. Also, I hate all this talk of PES being completely automated, as if everything is done for you. Many factors dictate how good a shot or pass you play like body balance, pressure, and player abilities like his stronger foot etc, etc (as it has always been in PES).

That would be a good thing if you scored from those positions now and then, as opposed to practically every single time, thanks to the goalkeepers who all seem to have graduated from the Stevie Wonder School of Goalkeeping with flying colours.
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Every single time? Not from my experience. The goalkeepers aren't 'that' bad, either. Sure they're not the best in a PES game, but I've seen many great stops and had many point blank 'certain goals' saved.

So the satisfaction of scoring in PES has died in my experience, it's "oh look, I scored from the edge of the box again, hmmm this isn't right" whereas in FIFA when you do score a pearler it's like "WOW, you don't see that very often" - in FIFA you don't see them anywhere near often enough, something like once every 100 games if you don't use the finesse button, but I'd rather that I had to work to score a goal.
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But didn't you say recently that one of the redeeming features of PES2009 was the build-up play and having to work to create openings? How is lobbing a through ball over the top and scoring easily with the finesse shot considered 'work' in Fifa?:?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I go on holiday for a whole 7 days and come back and all the additional news i have is Eurogamer says there is a big difference..



Pfffffffffttttttt!!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

if they could just update the graphics but take the exact gameplay from PES2009 for the Wii, the game would be close to perfection.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
.....as you can in real-life, any player has a chance of scoring from anywhere, but only the best players like Gerrard can do it with any regularity
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I've done it with Sami Hyypia for Liverpool over the first few matches in a row, then again throughout the season regularly (in-fact he was my top scorer for a while in my first season which I said in a post in here weeks ago, in-fact it might have even been over the entire season but I didn't look at the stats at the end). I think you've said yourself that PES2009 seems to have watered down the individuality from previous games.

Torres is a better player, yes, but in that he can dribble and beat a man. Shooting-wise I find all the players very similar (apart from Mascherano weirdly enough, realistic yeah but surely he shouldn't be the only player I can't score with). In my experience.

Jamezinho said:
Every single time? Not from my experience. The goalkeepers aren't 'that' bad, either. Sure they're not the best in a PES game, but I've seen many great stops and had many point blank 'certain goals' saved.
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I don't think I'm the only one to think the goalkeepers are utter gash, you hit piss-weak shots straight at them and they regularly palm them into the net. They're nothing like realistic, and they let in all kinds of shots from range. Again, I like that you can score from range, but you see it far, far too often. It takes away the feeling of satisfaction when you score a goal. In my opinion (obviously it's different in your experience but not in mine)!

I don't remember playing games like ISS Pro Evo on the PS1, Winning Eleven 6/7/8 on the PS2 etc. and seeing a goal that made me say "that's stupid, you'd never see that in real life" (bar the ones where the ball went through the body of the goalkeeper obviously) - whereas in 2008/2009 I've seen countless goals that have been ridiculously stupid. That's most likely down to having a poor memory admittedly, I don't know what anyone else thinks.

And you can think I'm exaggerating, that's fair enough. I was saying "practically every time" though, not "every time", and I don't think I was. But perhaps I was, granted.

Jamezinho said:
But didn't you say recently that one of the redeeming features of PES2009 was the build-up play and having to work to create openings?
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I said that, yes, and that's true, you have to use build-up play in midfield which is great. But once you get to the edge of the area, you don't have to try and break into the area. You can just shoot from there and score, game in game out, in my experience.

I'm not saying that you can't break into the area - I'm not even saying that you should have to. I'm just saying that you don't have to, and you usually score. I don't feel a big enough difference in shot success rates (i.e. goals) between the edge of the area and inside the area.

In-fact I can't remember any goals that I scored inside the box (I'm not saying there weren't any, but none spring to mind).

Jamezinho said:
How is lobbing a through ball over the top and scoring easily with the finesse shot considered 'work' in Fifa?
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It's not. Build-up play doesn't exist in FIFA*. But two wrongs don't make a right do they?

I'm not trying to be hateful; I'm just telling it like it is in my experience. I've played two seasons in PES, not as much as the guys who love it granted, but if I felt that same old feeling of "yes, goal, get in there" that I used to then I would play it for longer. I just don't, it pales in comparison to the old games. In my opinion. Which I'm allowed. You and Jimmy G-Force can disagree but I respect that. :) We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I respect that your experience is different from my own and that you've played the game more than I have, but there was too much I missed about FIFA to play it for more than the two seasons I played. It just comes down to the things you want the most - or possibly the things you can put up with the most easily.

* I've recently started playing FIFA on fully-manual, which I know isn't something you want to do so I'm not saying that's a more realistic game or anything, I know that PES's way of playing is what you like and I'm not arguing against that. But on fully-manual you DO have to use build-up play - seriously - because you can't do the exploits, there's no CPU putting the through-balls etc. in the exact perfect spot for you. I'm really enjoying the game at the moment but the other gameplay issues still frustrate to the point of making you quit; crap response times, walking into people, not being able to beat a man, floaty shots and all that. And of course you lose even more of what little player individuality the game has left when you're playing on manual.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
I've done it with Sami Hyypia for Liverpool over the first few matches in a row, then again throughout the season regularly (in-fact he was my top scorer for a while in my first season which I said in a post in here weeks ago, it might have even been over the entire season but I didn't look at the stats at the end). I think you've said yourself that PES2009 seems to have watered down the individuality from previous games.

Torres is a better player, yes, but in that he can dribble and beat a man. Shooting-wise I find all the players very similar (apart from Mascherano weirdly enough, realistic yeah but surely he shouldn't be the only player I can't score with).


I don't think I'm the only one to think the goalkeepers are utter gash, you hit piss-weak shots straight at them and they regularly palm them into the net. They're nothing like realistic, and they let in all kinds of shots from range. Again, I like that you can score from range, but you see it far, far too often. It takes away the feeling of satisfaction when you score a goal. In my opinion (obviously it's different in your experience but not in mine)!

I don't remember playing games like ISS Pro Evo on the PS1, Winning Eleven 6/7/8 on the PS2 etc. and seeing a goal that made me say "that's stupid, you'd never see that in real life" (bar the ones where the ball went through the body of the goalkeeper obviously) - whereas in 2008/2009 I've seen countless goals that have been ridiculously stupid. That's most likely down to having a poor memory admittedly, I don't know what anyone else thinks.

And you can think I'm exaggerating, that's fair enough. I was saying "practically every time" though, not "every time", and I don't think I was. But perhaps I was.


I said that, yes, and that's true, you have to use build-up play in midfield which is great. But once you get to the edge of the area, you don't have to try and break into the area. You can just shoot from there and score, game in game out, in my experience.

I'm not saying that you can't break into the area - I'm not even saying that you should have to. I'm just saying that you don't have to, and you usually score. I don't feel a big enough difference in shot success rates (i.e. goals) between the edge of the area and inside the area.

In-fact I can't remember any goals that I scored inside the box (I'm not saying there weren't any, but none spring to mind).


It's not. Build-up play doesn't exist in FIFA*. But two wrongs don't make a right do they?

I'm not trying to be hateful, I'm just telling it like it is in my experience. I've played two seasons in PES, not as much as the guys who love it granted, but if I felt that same old feeling of "yes, goal, get in there" that I used to then I would play it for longer. I just don't, it pales in comparison to the old games. In my opinion. Which I'm allowed. You and Jimmy G-Force can disagree but I respect that. :)

I respect that your experience is different from my own and that you've played the game more than I have, but there was too much I missed about FIFA to play it for more than the two seasons I played. It just comes down to the things you want the most - or possibly the things you can put up with the most easily.

* I've recently started playing FIFA on fully-manual, which I know isn't something you want to do so I'm not saying that's a more realistic game or anything, I know that PES's way of playing is what you like and I'm not arguing against that. But on fully-manual you DO have to use build-up play - seriously - because you can't do the exploits, there's no CPU putting the through-balls etc. in the exact perfect spot for you. I'm really enjoying the game at the moment but the other gameplay issues still frustrate to the point of making you quit; crap response times, walking into players, not being able to beat a man, floaty shots and all that.
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Excellent post as always Chris, and very well written. I'm with Jamezinho though, but I appreciate what you like and what we like, both are different, and to be fair to you Chris you did highlight that in your previous post.

It's opinion, there is no right and wrong to an extent, bar certain statements regards PES that I know are incorrect from what I have seen and played. Then again, I have hammered PES and you Fifa.

Sammy being top scorer can only be down to his headers off set pieces, as he cant shoot for shit.

Back on topic .......... Is this list fucking fake or what ? Lol.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

@jamezhino @chris davies @Jimmy gforce. Its good that sometimes we disagree,would be a pretty Dull forum if all we did was agree and pat each other on the back.;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

matherto said:
Yeah maybe if you stick the controller down your pants and feel the vibration.

It's gone so far downhill from the PS2 games, PES now feels like you're playing a game full of quicktime events, you press a button in time with something on screen and it does it all for you.

You were right about FIFA though at least, the only way anyone ever scores on that is a close finish with the finesse shot.
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How true...

I gave up Fifa 09 and PES. I hope the old feeling can be brought back in any way :-) Never look back, but in that case i do !
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Badgerman said:
Well I actually play Fifa over PES these days, so I feel that I now have a perch to preach from, oh yes.

When PES was good, it was as if you were with Scarlett Johansson. Damn.

With this new Fifa it's kind of a slightly overweight Megan Fox with a slim prosthetic leg and a fat real leg accompanied with a gammy eye. She also happens to be a mute. In short, admittedly there's something special there, but you can't help but look at it with a bit of disdain.

It might sound a bit weird but the long shots in PES were one of the elements that grabbed me by the goolies and really struck a chord with me. They were reliant on distance, angle, power, swerve and conditions - it posed a great challenge that could result in the ball either flying wide or crashing in off the crossbar. What got me was that when they came off, they looked real, which is the holy grail for footy sim fans.

Long shots in Fifa seem much more methodical to me. Get in position X, apply the power, ball goes in. I did enjoy Fifa, I just found that it turned me into a robot.

I wish the Dreamcast was still about with that Virtua Striker game. Even though it was an arcade game it had a few pretty nifty features; long shots were groovetastic and there was even a rating system in place to judge your goals (goals over 500 points got a rainbow trail!)

Personally I disagree with the fun = arcade, simulation = unggg idea. PES5/6 was able to mix them both so I'm going to sit here and wait for my cake to arrive so I can eat it
emotcolbert.gif
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This is my favorite Badgerman summary of the FIFA vs PES debate. Objectivism at its best. Take a bow son.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
That's one of the reasons why I gave up on Fifa09 a few months back. The majority of goals in Fifa09 come from a finesse finish after being put 1-on-1 with the keeper from a through ball. When I went back to PES I was instantly reminded of the variety of goals you can score in that game - from long range wonder-strikes to scrappy goalmouth scrambles - and that's why I think scoring in PES never gets dull. Scoring a goal in PES still gives you that buzz that it always did back in the PS2 days.
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Every PES fan who played FIFA09 this year will absolutely, 100% agree with you.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree with Badgerman that FIFA is only widely regarded as the better game because PES hasn't turned up. I actually think PES5 is a better game than FIFA 09.

FIFA is fairly impressive in some areas, particularly the freedom you get from manual passing (particularly for long balls, that's why I can't play PES for long any more without getting so frustrated, you see players in space in the distance and you know there is absolutely no way you will get the ball to them in the way you want to).

The PS2/PSP versions of PES do a lot of things better than FIFA though:
Dipping volleys/shots and powerful shots
Flying headers/volleys where they really attack the ball
Beating defenders/creating a yard of space with a change of pace or direction rather than a flashy trick
Goal line scrambles and blocks - the best moment i've had on a PES game would have to be when I ran a defender onto the line when my keeper was rounded on PES5 and diving headed it away from right on the line in the last few minutes to hold onto a win :D
Keepers reaction times/reactions to close-in shots (sometimes they dive the wrong way or stand still)
Keeper mistakes - It's a bad thing having too many ala 08 and 09, but keepers with low skills should make some mistakes.
Player individuality - Playing as England, if you need a goal a good tactic would be to get Beckham in a good position and get him to cross it in, on FIFA it doesn't really matter. I'm of the opinion though that player individuality isn't such a good idea to exaggerate in online play though, as it just increases the chances of people constantly using the same top teams all the time, it should be down to gamer skill rather than player attributes IMO.
Unpredictability - Crosses can go in, shots from seemingly ridiculous angles/distances can go in, any shot can be missed, own goals can be scored (i've not seen a cross hit a defender on FIFA and go in)

Why can such less powerful machines provide all that yet the 360/PS3 (and PC) can only bring us scripted football games in which all of the goals are either the same (FIFA) or cheap/unrealistic (PES)?

I still don't think this is the year we get the top-quality PES we've all been waiting for, but I think completely giving up on the series if PES 2010 turns out to be crap would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, PES can and will come back strongly, when it will do that nobody knows. I'll give PES 2010 a chance and hope it's a good game, but the chances of it going from an absolutely shocking game to a brilliant one in one year seems seem fairly remote.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
I'm not trying to be hateful; I'm just telling it like it is in my experience. I've played two seasons in PES, not as much as the guys who love it granted, but if I felt that same old feeling of "yes, goal, get in there" that I used to then I would play it for longer. I just don't, it pales in comparison to the old games. In my opinion. Which I'm allowed. You and Jimmy G-Force can disagree but I respect that. :) We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I respect that your experience is different from my own and that you've played the game more than I have, but there was too much I missed about FIFA to play it for more than the two seasons I played. It just comes down to the things you want the most - or possibly the things you can put up with the most easily.
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I respect that Chris. I know you're not a PES-hater as you wouldn't have joined this site all those years ago. It's great that we have two very different games for different people.:BEER:

This year has been the first ever that I've been genuinely excited about both upcoming games.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Rob92 said:
I agree with Badgerman that FIFA is only widely regarded as the better game because PES hasn't turned up. I actually think PES5 is a better game than FIFA 09.

FIFA is fairly impressive in some areas, particularly the freedom you get from manual passing (particularly for long balls, that's why I can't play PES for long any more without getting so frustrated, you see players in space in the distance and you know there is absolutely no way you will get the ball to them in the way you want to).

The PS2/PSP versions of PES do a lot of things better than FIFA though:
Dipping volleys/shots and powerful shots
Flying headers/volleys where they really attack the ball
Beating defenders/creating a yard of space with a change of pace or direction rather than a flashy trick
Goal line scrambles and blocks - the best moment i've had on a PES game would have to be when I ran a defender onto the line when my keeper was rounded on PES5 and diving headed it away from right on the line in the last few minutes to hold onto a win :D
Keepers reaction times/reactions to close-in shots (sometimes they dive the wrong way or stand still)
Keeper mistakes - It's a bad thing having too many ala 08 and 09, but keepers with low skills should make some mistakes.
Player individuality - Playing as England, if you need a goal a good tactic would be to get Beckham in a good position and get him to cross it in, on FIFA it doesn't really matter. I'm of the opinion though that player individuality isn't such a good idea to exaggerate in online play though, as it just increases the chances of people constantly using the same top teams all the time, it should be down to gamer skill rather than player attributes IMO.
Unpredictability - Crosses can go in, shots from seemingly ridiculous angles/distances can go in, any shot can be missed, own goals can be scored (i've not seen a cross hit a defender on FIFA and go in)

Why can such less powerful machines provide all that yet the 360/PS3 (and PC) can only bring us scripted football games in which all of the goals are either the same (FIFA) or cheap/unrealistic (PES)?

I still don't think this is the year we get the top-quality PES we've all been waiting for, but I think completely giving up on the series if PES 2010 turns out to be crap would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, PES can and will come back strongly, when it will do that nobody knows. I'll give PES 2010 a chance and hope it's a good game, but the chances of it going from an absolutely shocking game to a brilliant one in one year seems seem fairly remote.
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Good post mate :)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

alot of backslapping in here haha

are you all budding journalists?
 
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