PES 2019 News Discussion Thread (INSULTS/DIGS = INSTANT BAN)

[Ameppe]

I was really disappointed when they first announced that the game was going to be a new improved game instead of the revolution it needs to be, especially about modes, but now i can't go on and on complaining about how they didn't do what i expected.

Yes, they need to do that, but a good functional balanced game with a more human AI would be good enough. Now i'm just waiting for the general opinion once the game will be released before deciding to buy or not. The demo to me is just too little to understand how Pes 2019 will work as a whole, i can't really judge to buy it or not based on that.
Will also watch Master League Superstar videos. That is the real test to understand if CPU will be as cheap as it is this year.

 

[Goldstone]

I find it strange you talking about this as though it's a newish directon. PES has had a contextual design philosophy for many years now. Meanwhile, FIFA has gone in the exact opposite direction – there's a modifier or combination for everything. (Just look at their new double tap mechanic they're showing off.)

It's very much something that's hard to objectively argue in favour of one way or the other. I'll give my two cents on the value of contextual design philosophy anyway.

I think the claim that contextual variables/triggers remove control is misleading. You learn to work within an environment, and you see that the limits of the environment can give you as much if not greater expression than a more command-based setup.

So I can't set off (say) shielding with a button, but I can learn what circumstancial elements will tend to trigger it. With the former approach, features quickly become exploits in game mechanics (online especially), with the latter much less so. Moreover, if the contextual triggers are well refined (and they're not always—a risk and a problem with this philosophy), the overall effect is a fluid and realistic feel. A sense of "life" to the game, not purely deterministic inputs and outputs.

My thoughts exactly, very well written & explained there!
Always loved how contextual PES is and always found FIFA'S button combos a bit of a finger dance that I don't enjoy in a football game. Having actions trigger contextually in certain situations makes the experience feel much more organic & fluid IMO.

 

[superleeds1]

Anyone else taking the kitchen sink analogy posted earlier to ram down the other guys throat will be banned outright.

 

[fantomas23]

Wasn't PES2018 in 4K also? Correct me if I am wrong, but I had the idea that it was? The supporters do look amazing in 2019 btw. Very excited to check it out on my Oled wednesday.

indeed it was but no hdr. bought a 65" 4k hdr tv earlier this year specifically just for god of war. i'll have a pile of backup underwear next to me when i boot up pes 19 demo next week

 

[Tottiwhat!]

Also agree heavily with what Janguv said.
Going down the contextual route can only get better and better as time goes on as more and more triggers are added over the PES lifespan. Button combo’s do have a place, IMO, but only for certain actions. A major flaw with button combo’s is the ability to use something in the wrong contest which can breed unorganic moments and kill immersion and realism.

 

[broxopios]

My two cents about passing.

I heard the guys who already tested the game saying that PA1 is free like a bird. I like the sound of it, but from my perspective i want stats to infuence passing (and shooting ofcourse). I don't want Modric to misplace passing cause i had the left stick a little right or left (yeah maybe this is an option too - a semi assisted option), but because of the stats, the bad position, at the late of the match (depend his tiredeness), the high pressure of the opponent etc. Maybe i ask too much but we had that in the past and it's the little details that makes a great game.

 

[Ameppe]

I think the claim that contextual variables/triggers remove control is misleading. You learn to work within an environment, and you see that the limits of the environment can give you as much if not greater expression than a more command-based setup.

So I can't set off (say) shielding with a button, but I can learn what circumstancial elements will tend to trigger it. With the former approach, features quickly become exploits in game mechanics (online especially), with the latter much less so. Moreover, if the contextual triggers are well refined (and they're not always—a risk and a problem with this philosophy), the overall effect is a fluid and realistic feel. A sense of "life" to the game, not purely deterministic inputs and outputs.

I tend to agree: contextual is not bad, it's good. But they need to have a more consistent gameplay. I mean, if there is a situation where it should be natural to automatically shield the ball that should always trigger the ball shielding. Many times i feel like Pes gameplay is too random and because of that i don't really feel like i have control on what happens.

Another example is linked to the lack of shooting or finishing animations. Why do they make the players do that awful limp headers after a cross when players are in a position they could attempt a much better move? In that situation i feel like i have no control whatsoever on what is happening on the pitch and a wonderful offensive action is wasted because of their broken contextual animation system.

 

[Madmac79]

I find it strange you talking about this as though it's a newish directon. PES has had a contextual design philosophy for many years now. Meanwhile, FIFA has gone in the exact opposite direction – there's a modifier or combination for everything. (Just look at their new double tap mechanic they're showing off.)

It's very much something that's hard to objectively argue in favour of one way or the other. I'll give my two cents on the value of contextual design philosophy anyway.

I think the claim that contextual variables/triggers remove control is misleading. You learn to work within an environment, and you see that the limits of the environment can give you as much if not greater expression than a more command-based setup.

So I can't set off (say) shielding with a button, but I can learn what circumstancial elements will tend to trigger it. With the former approach, features quickly become exploits in game mechanics (online especially), with the latter much less so. Moreover, if the contextual triggers are well refined (and they're not always—a risk and a problem with this philosophy), the overall effect is a fluid and realistic feel. A sense of "life" to the game, not purely deterministic inputs and outputs.

I kinda agree with you, even if imo it can be done correctly with both systems. I'm not a fan of exasperated control, to me stats and players characteristics needs to make a good difference in what you can or can't do. I'd totally be fine with, always using your example of shielding, having bigger/stronger strikers like Dzeko or Lukaku triggering it automatically more easily if that's the route you want to take. But it needs to be implemented way better than last year, where ball shielding was random, dull and hardly made for any real difference or interesting play.

At the same time, if you task a single button to trigger the ball shielding, but the game takes into account stats and body types as above, and you have to let's say work with your stick to keep the ball, it would still make for a free and fun feature in my opinion.

 

[dalybhoy]

When I was battling depression one of the quotes in a self help book told the readers to do this:

"Next time you walk into the kitchen and notice some dirty dishes take a look around and notice everything that is tidy and clean"

Moral of it is stop hyper focusing on the negatives but instead focus on what is positive, take that outlook and you will see its about 95% good and 5% bad.

Not exactly, we all have different preferences from what we want in a football game. So it's not as simple as that.

I've said it before - no 'newgens' in Master League and the assistance levels online kill my enjoyment of the game. Two fundamental issues in the two key areas of the game. I can put up with most other negatives.

 

[PES_Danielrh]

Oh man I loved it personally. I think its in very good standing this year indeed. Everything feels good in balance and it feels free-er as ever this gen.

Man oh man yes the videos (and it's been said before about previous versions) but true about PES2019 do's not truly capture how this game plays ..... not long till Wednesday

Didn't you say Alan was there?

(Please mods I begeth thee to allow me this one strike)

Alan is a cool guy I like him a pleasure to have met him, meeting someone in person is a lot different than on a forum

Well this is disappointing. Kind of get the impression the guys who go to these events are just delighted to be there, rather than actually trying to offer their critique.

If I was attending, I would have a page of notes detailing all the flaws with 2018 and what to look for in 2019; and be prepared to ask questions on anything that you can't identify from the playtest yourself. A little bit of preparation, so that I can make some sort of substantive comparison.

Can't believe those in attendance failed to enquire about one of the fundamental problems with Master League. Very poor.

Not exactly representing the community if you're just turning up happy go lucky and playing the game.

I meant to do a list and didn't get round to doing one, people do ask things but I think it's mainly on things that matter to them personally and you've brought up regens on here.

This forum is read as I found out at Glasgow so keep on talking

My two cents about passing.

I heard the guys who already tested the game saying that PA1 is free like a bird. I like the sound of it, but from my perspective i want stats to infuence passing (and shooting ofcourse). I don't want Modric to misplace passing cause i had the left stick a little right or left (yeah maybe this is an option too - a semi assisted option), but because of the stats, the bad position, at the late of the match (depend his tiredeness), the high pressure of the opponent etc. Maybe i ask too much but we had that in the past and it's the little details that makes a great game.

PA1 free as a bird you know sometimes on PES2018 you say I meant the pass to go in this direction and it goes elsewhere? none of that in PES2019

 

[dalybhoy]

I watched a video yesterday and a guy made 3 passes from right to left through his midfield and his two central midfielders backheeled their passes with 100% accuracy and at pace. it looked ridiculous.

Why does every player have the backheel animation? It should be limited to players with a high technical ability (over 85). The more skilled players should have unique animations, it would remove the arcade feel that you immediately get when Wes Morgan backheels a 25 yard pass to his left back under pressure.

Even on manual controls, players' accuracy relating to shooting, passing, tackling etc should be directly correlated with their statistics. It is just not the case, we need more depth.

Instead of following FIFA and catering to the esport types, PES should establish their own unique selling point. Take Rainbow Six Siege for example. The market was saturated with arcade shooters and Ubisoft are now profiting from the decision to make a game with great depth - more tactical gameplay, harder shooting mechanics, and a higher skill ceiling. As a result of this, the R6 ESport scene is flourishing. There is room for a deep simulation here, PES sometimes operates under the guise of simulation, but we are not there yet.

 

[dalybhoy]

I meant to do a list and didn't get round to doing one, people do ask things but I think it's mainly on things that matter to them personally and you've brought up regens on here.

This forum is read as I found out at Glasgow so keep on talking

No worries mate, ideal.

 

[PES_Danielrh]

After watching the Liverpool VS Barcelona video by PESEP I'm so very not excited.
3 backheels in the first half (one of them just within the first 10 second after kick-off.
Many clumsy moves (could be the build needed some more fine tuning).
Messi is like the least dangerous player of the match.
Busquets goes from CM to AMF way too much.
Very little play over the wide areas of the pitch. PES 2018 was mostly about utilizing the flanks and having good wingers. But now it looks like they are forcing us o play down the center of the pitch. Could be how the teams were set-up, I don't know.
Etc

I don't know anymore. Should just shut up, stop watching everything until Wednesday.

stay away from videos wait till wednesday and we'll talk again

I imagine that if you did then you may not get an invite for the year after.

wrong Nik, your free to speak and talk.

One of the testers at Glasgow, Precision, says that the game feels great, but there is still small niggling things with defenders positioning that he has reported to the team. He says the game is same pace as e3 code and gk's seem better. Nice to get some game play specifics instead of the usual hyperbole.

I've been giving general impressions not hyperbole.

Game does feel great, and the niggling things you've mentioned about positioning was because guys used advanced tactics and a few of them at once this does override (during gameplay) and affect your overall teams positioning.

PESMunki and I turned all advanced tactics off in one game and the positioning was glorious, my pick had to be the DM he was always there in the right area not charging up the pitch like a mad man (in PES2018).

Yes goalkeepers have improved compared to PES2018 but would like to see more intelligence from goalkeepers.

dealing with various types of shoots correctly
coming and collecting loose balls better
taking command of a penalty area better, instead of showing hesitancy

hows that for specifics? ........ future patches will have gameplay improvements, people are looking for gameplay improvements to be listed so hopefully Konami starts doing this

 

[janguv]

I tend to agree: contextual is not bad, it's good. But they need to have a more consistent gameplay. I mean, if there is a situation where it should be natural to automatically shield the ball that should always trigger the ball shielding. Many times i feel like Pes gameplay is too random and because of that i don't really feel like i have control on what happens.

Another example is linked to the lack of shooting or finishing animations. Why do they make the players do that awful limp headers after a cross when players are in a position they could attempt a much better move? In that situation i feel like i have no control whatsoever on what is happening on the pitch and a wonderful offensive action is wasted because of their broken contextual animation system.

I kinda agree with you, even if imo it can be done correctly with both systems. I'm not a fan of exasperated control, to me stats and players characteristics needs to make a good difference in what you can or can't do. I'd totally be fine with, always using your example of shielding, having bigger/stronger strikers like Dzeko or Lukaku triggering it automatically more easily if that's the route you want to take. But it needs to be implemented way better than last year, where ball shielding was random, dull and hardly made for any real difference or interesting play.

At the same time, if you task a single button to trigger the ball shielding, but the game takes into account stats and body types as above, and you have to let's say work with your stick to keep the ball, it would still make for a free and fun feature in my opinion.

Yes, both of you are right about what happens when things aren't setup right. PES 2018 can be infuriating when the triggers are too inconsistent (I don't mind some unpredictability, though), or aren't refined enough. It needs constant and careful work, from a development perspective, especially as new animations are added. Fwiw: I rarely found myself frustrated by shielding this year.

PA1 free as a bird you know sometimes on PES2018 you say I meant the pass to go in this direction and it goes elsewhere? none of that in PES2019

I soooo hope that's the case. Is that true for through balls? They seem to be the biggest culprits for the computer deciding it wants your pass to go to a different player, right now.

PESMunki and I turned all advanced tactics off in one game and the positioning was glorious, my pick had to be the DM he was always there in the right area not charging up the pitch like a mad man (in PES2018).

It's good the DMF is more intelligent. Though it's frustrating if using Advanced Instructions messes that up (just like it does with the Attacking Fullbacks option now). It goes to the broader point which @Matt10 wrote about on PESUniverse: the different hierarchies of tactical system, and how they progressively override each other the further up you go, meaning that player stats have the least impact on gameplay.

It needs to be massively simplified. As Matt argued, players should be better or worse at conforming to Advanced Instructions based on their underlying stats, and they should also be made ineligible for certain other player roles on account of their abilities too.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Wish we could play ML or any offline mode co-op online.

 

[janguv]

Wish we could play ML or any offline mode co-op online.

Yeah think they've missed a trick not sorting out co-op master league. Maybe it's just nostalgia for me, but lots of people growing up did offline play in pairs with siblings and mates. It could recapture that magic.

 

[darkoj2007]

yesterday I fired up pes 2017 on my ps4 and played few matches with chilean teams just for changing. Oh boy, the game was a lot slower and more natural in movement, realistic animations... I just hope pes 2019 give us that feeling with top teams, it will be joy to play Demo can`t come soon enough!!!

 

[Elanimator]

I watched a video yesterday and a guy made 3 passes from right to left through his midfield and his two central midfielders backheeled their passes with 100% accuracy and at pace. it looked ridiculous.

Why does every player have the backheel animation? It should be limited to players with a high technical ability (over 85). The more skilled players should have unique animations, it would remove the arcade feel that you immediately get when Wes Morgan backheels a 25 yard pass to his left back under pressure.

I thought backheel passes will be less this year. No-look pass is unique player skill now so I thought only limited players can do backheels, unless they don't consider backheel a no-look pass.
If that is case, they should make it a unique players skill too and make its occurence "very rare".

Even on manual controls, players' accuracy relating to shooting, passing, tackling etc should be directly correlated with their statistics. It is just not the case, we need more depth.

Is it easy for us to say these things. Personally, I want the things you mentioned to correlate to both skill of players(us gamers) and stats.
The question is HOW?

 

[its999maggle]

One thing that bothers me is that the players receiving passes almost never adjust their position to receive it properly. The ball comes straight at their position.

 

[nevcapr]

Yeah think they've missed a trick not sorting out co-op master league. Maybe it's just nostalgia for me, but lots of people growing up did offline play in pairs with siblings and mates. It could recapture that magic.

Totally agree would be great to have a co-op master league online.
Also a 4 player master league online would be amazing for e.g. 3 or 4 friends same league can buy and sell and play.
The big games would be against Each other with the rest ai.

 

[Gunslinger]

One thing that bothers me is that the players receiving passes almost never adjust their position to receive it properly. The ball comes straight at their position.

That has bothered me for years with PES. It looks so awkward and gamey. I don't think Konami see these things.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Partly ot so sorry.
Looking for 2019 videos I found this one.
DAT A.I. keeper made me watch the whole match.
Dyballa animation at 66 min. is nice too.

 

[Gunslinger]

The best PES 2019 video I've seen so far.

 

[superleeds1]

No one thinking what I am thinking with that video then?

 

[Danny Henry]

Well I said that I would not comment till the demo even thou I dont know if its matter this times but anyway. Its times for esports most of you say. Konami will make games to please the younger players. I dont no if any football franchise want to make a complex game anymore. Its Not just a slower gameplay with slow animations and floaty goalkeepers that makes a football sim. Its about complexity and mechanics. A bad pass will result on bad trap, forcing your player to more touches on the ball before he perfectly moves, pass or shoot. This will slower the pace. But we all know that this is not what casuals want right?

Other thing is the AI. What we said before its times for online gaming so, there is few company that are investing on making a proper and complex CPU AI. Its not just Konami. Gaming overall are dumbed down.

Im not saing that Im not buy this game. I definitly will, but my expectations are very low. Not only for PES but for games overall.

"We 'were' a football tribe."

 

[its999maggle]

Partly ot so sorry.
Looking for 2019 videos I found this one.
DAT A.I. keeper made me watch the whole match.
Dyballa animation at 66 min. is nice too.

Had to watch at 0.75x

 

[Chuny]

No one thinking what I am thinking with that video then?

No idea what you're thinking but what I'm thinking is 360 movement killed PES.
PES was king while it was 8 directional.

 

[Cyrax77]

I used to be a top dutch player. Yes, PES was far more difficult back then. If you sucked in it, you could be beaten by 10 goals. When you play a serious tournament, it was a different game. I knew everything there was to know. Trained for months before I was ready.

PES is not the game it was back then. Because it will not sell if it still was that difficult. My son is 15, with average skills. He beats me 2 out of 10 matches with PES 2018. He loves the game and doesn't know he actually sucks in it. It's hard for him to believe I once was a top player. Because, as he says, why does he win sometimes. Well son, this PES is no way as hard as in my days.

He laughs a bit and thinks I am just an old idiot. I leave him to it an pray for a 8 directional PES once again.... One that gets you nowhere when you just buttonbash the pass button without looking.

 

[PES_Danielrh]

I soooo hope that's the case. Is that true for through balls? They seem to be the biggest culprits for the computer deciding it wants your pass to go to a different player, right now.

It's good the DMF is more intelligent. Though it's frustrating if using Advanced Instructions messes that up (just like it does with the Attacking Fullbacks option now). It goes to the broader point which @Matt10 wrote about on PESUniverse: the different hierarchies of tactical system, and how they progressively override each other the further up you go, meaning that player stats have the least impact on gameplay.

It needs to be massively simplified. As Matt argued, players should be better or worse at conforming to Advanced Instructions based on their underlying stats, and they should also be made ineligible for certain other player roles on account of their abilities too.

yes mate it the same for through balls as well where I wanted the pass to go it went, improved upon from PES2018.

The advanced tactic seemed to hold your team based upon what your going with and on this occasion you will see the odd out of position (gaps that you could exploit) but you will see the players make an attempt to get back to their position and respond.

so the rule for advance tactics is use them sparingly and get the right combination

 

[kernowdoc]

No one thinking what I am thinking with that video then?

I'm thinking how I wish Ronaldo had signed for mufc again oh, and how ancient that game looks nowadays.