PES 2019 News Discussion Thread (INSULTS/DIGS = INSTANT BAN)

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If the referee isn't recognizing the collisions consistently, that is one thing, but from the video that I have seen it shows the referee acknowledging the collisions and either playing an advantage or calling a foul. There have been very few instances, that I have seen, in which the referee did not call a foul or at least acknowledge the collision. I am sure there are moments in which a foul should definitely have been called, but as long as the referee acknowledges a collision detected - then that is much better than where we were last year, and a couple years ago. Please don't tell me we are going into this from just judging a screenshot of match stats?
 
EA is probably already thinking of licensing Referees and giving the real stats for FIFA 20...

Actually... it wouldn't be a bad idea for PES given the current state of (not-enough)fouls.
 
janguv said:
I think the best move for Konami (and for fans following this concern) is to acknowledge that some of the problem can't be resolved until the physics/collision engine is itself overhauled. I don't think we'll see substantial foul changes until that bigger project is undertaken.
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Whether it would be a good idea for them to ever say that is questionable, but the underlying point is bang on the money. The excuses people come up with do make me laugh a bit, like having to dive to win a penalty, I mean come on. It's clear that the limitation is the engine and somehow I'd feel better if people could just recognise that honestly and suggest to Konami that it would be a good area to focus on for the future. Mind you, there were people that said there was nothing wrong with shooting and yet they'll be the first to laud the overhaul it got this year.

Matt10 said:
If the referee isn't recognizing the collisions consistently, that is one thing, but from the video that I have seen it shows the referee acknowledging the collisions and either playing an advantage or calling a foul. There have been very few instances, that I have seen, in which the referee did not call a foul or at least acknowledge the collision.
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I actually recall seeing quite a few, some really blatant ones where for example the goalkeeper wiped out an attacker and no penalty was given. Granted the collision detection does seem improved in 2019, but it's really only a band-aid solution for the real overhaul in physicality it desperately needs.

Matt10 said:
Please don't tell me we are going into this from just judging a screenshot of match stats?
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Countless examples of 0, 1 or 2 fouls in a ten minute match cannot be explained away when it is a consistent trend over several years. The likelihood that these numbers were instructive in previous years but suddenly are not this year seems slim. Of course you can't only use stats to make the case but it's a good starting point.
 
Chuny said:
EA is probably already thinking of licensing Referees and giving the real stats for FIFA 20...

Actually... it wouldn't be a bad idea for PES given the current state of (not-enough)fouls.
Click to expand...


In My ML Champions League Quarter Final not an hour ago,I had a very strict ref,both in terms of COM and me,there does seem to be variances as to when this situation occurs throughout the game IMO.The foul count finished 5-4.
I also note people have been speaking about gameplay style to force free kicks,surely this is mirroring the modern game,You lurk outside the box and draw the defender into fouling You,to win a free kick?

Fouls are limited, I have no idea how the algorithm works,but some areas of the game do produce more fouls than others.
 
stupidusername said:
Whether it would be a good idea for them to ever say that is questionable, but the underlying point is bang on the money. The excuses people come up with do make me laugh a bit, like having to dive to win a penalty, I mean come on. It's clear that the limitation is the engine and somehow I'd feel better if people could just recognise that honestly and suggest to Konami that it would be a good area to focus on for the future. Mind you, there were people that said there was nothing wrong with shooting and yet they'll be the first to laud the overhaul it got this year.



I actually recall seeing quite a few, some really blatant ones where for example the goalkeeper wiped out an attacker and no penalty was given. Granted the collision detection does seem improved in 2019, but it's really only a band-aid solution for the real overhaul in physicality it desperately needs.



Countless examples of 0, 1 or 2 fouls in a ten minute match cannot be explained away when it is a consistent trend over several years. The likelihood that these numbers were instructive in previous years but suddenly are not this year seems slim. Of course you can't only use stats to make the case but it's a good starting point.
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Yeah, I saw some of the same as well. Some blatant and some down to interpretation. By no means trying to validate the decision making, but if we "at least" have some form of collision detection, then it will be a much better experience.

Finding that sweet spot of PES 5 to...who knows...would be really nice. I know I would personally love PES 5 level, but that's not realistic to the gaming culture and esports direction. Love start/stop matches, it confirms physicality and true battle for the ball - but I fear those times have passed.

This again goes back to the hope that the game starts to adjust the experience based on the minutes played, or even the mode played (ML vs MyClub). Eitherway, as long as that detection is stronger than before, I will be happier than I've been the last couple years.

Also, you are right about the stats. As you know analyzing match stats is a lot of what we do in FIFA slider creating, in addition to the possession and tackle/foul graphics. It confirms the locations of these occurrences and provides insight to determine if we need to increase certain slider values that are relevant to a midfield, etc.

Thinking already that 5-minute fix from PES 2017 may work quite nicely in PES 2019 to really get that physicality ramped up. We will see :D
 
The whole Injuries and Fouls thing is probably my biggest bugbear, so much so that I sent the following to Asim. I was really surpirsed to hear him say to Shogun that he hadn't had much feedback about injuries. Apologies if it's TLDR but thought it might spark further conversation.
Injuries (specifically focused on within the Master League environment)

I feel that the number of injuries is far lower than there should be and that this detracts from that satisfying feeling of having to juggle your squad resources. Being forced to play a reserve 18 year old in the cup final when your usual striker picks up a hamstring injury in training can only deepen the feeling of immersion, particularly if he goes on to score the winner! In past ML iterations there has been very little reason to stray from your usual starting line-up. The need to rotate during busy schedules as a result of injuries & fatigue is a problem for all real world club managers and this could be much better reflected in the ML game world.

Stats show that the average number of injuries per Premier League club in the 16/17 season was 57.5. (Per physio room report), with roughly a 60/40 split between Match/Training. I’m not advocating that the same number be carried over in to ML but at present it’s usual to get at most 1-2 per season, so there’s a very clear gap from reality. I’m really looking forward to seeing how Visible Fatigue feeds into this for PES 2019.

Fouls/AI Tackling/Referees

This issue feels multi-faceted, made up of the following problems:

AI accuracy relative to their stats

It often feels that the AI is a laser guided tackling machine – regardless of whether it’s Paul Scholes or Paolo Maldini that is tackling your player. Player frustration/discontent around fouls would be reduced if the AI tackle accuracy bore a more demonstrable relation to their defensive stats

Referee Accuracy

1 Penalty in countless seasons of ML since 2018 launched despite numerous clear fouls by the AI in the box. Countless other fouls outside of the box that pass without the referee blinking an eye. This leads to great frustration and at times makes me not want to play the game

Number of fouls / Ebb & Flow

I get the argument about not wanting to break up the match but a match with no fouls (as can often happen in 2018) can often feel like a basketball match, with constant end to end action. This is a real turn off. The suspense of a free kick within shooting territory or a free kick opportunity to whip a ball in against a far stronger opponent are precisely the kind of break that adds to the flow of a match.

Tackling Risk/Reward

PES 5 is the benchmark here for me, a really clear risk and reward system was in place – If you held down X to pressure the opposition without properly positioning your player or considering your player’s tackling stats then you would give away a foul. There was quite an adjustment period on first picking up that version of the game and I’m sure there were many people that didn’t like it initially but it made you think about tackling rather than just holding down sprint + X button. This gave the game greater depth and another level of challenge.
 
Matt10 said:
Finding that sweet spot of PES 5 to...who knows...would be really nice. I know I would personally love PES 5 level, but that's not realistic to the gaming culture and esports direction. Love start/stop matches, it confirms physicality and true battle for the ball - but I fear those times have passed.
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Totally agree. This is why some kind of option/slider/different refs would be the ideal way to go about it surely?

Off topic slightly but anyone remember the likes of GTR and High Heat Baseball to name but two. They all had these huge notepad files in the game folders where you could adjust just about everything. That would be ideal then everyone could tailor it to how they want it.
 
superleeds1 said:
In My ML Champions League Quarter Final not an hour ago,I had a very strict ref,both in terms of COM and me,there does seem to be variances as to when this situation occurs throughout the game IMO.The foul count finished 5-4.
I also note people have been speaking about gameplay style to force free kicks,surely this is mirroring the modern game,You lurk outside the box and draw the defender into fouling You,to win a free kick?

Fouls are limited, I have no idea how the algorithm works,but some areas of the game do produce more fouls than others.
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Sure!
In fact, derby games have the perfect balance between letting the game flow and aggressiveness/fouls. Specially in Exhibition Mode.
That's what makes this whole thing even more weird!
 
Matt10 said:
Yeah, I saw some of the same as well. Some blatant and some down to interpretation. By no means trying to validate the decision making, but if we "at least" have some form of collision detection, then it will be a much better experience.

Finding that sweet spot of PES 5 to...who knows...would be really nice. I know I would personally love PES 5 level, but that's not realistic to the gaming culture and esports direction. Love start/stop matches, it confirms physicality and true battle for the ball - but I fear those times have passed.

This again goes back to the hope that the game starts to adjust the experience based on the minutes played, or even the mode played (ML vs MyClub). Eitherway, as long as that detection is stronger than before, I will be happier than I've been the last couple years.

Also, you are right about the stats. As you know analyzing match stats is a lot of what we do in FIFA slider creating, in addition to the possession and tackle/foul graphics. It confirms the locations of these occurrences and provides insight to determine if we need to increase certain slider values that are relevant to a midfield, etc.

Thinking already that 5-minute fix from PES 2017 may work quite nicely in PES 2019 to really get that physicality ramped up. We will see :D
Click to expand...

Agreed there. For me the situation with physicality/fouls is similar to how shooting was before, yes perhaps at times how bad it is may be exaggerated somewhat, but there really is huge room for improvement (as I think will be proven this year) and the same goes with the physicality/fouls issue (which I hope will be proven in 2020, if Konami are listening).
 
Matt10 said:
Finding that sweet spot of PES 5 to...who knows...would be really nice. I know I would personally love PES 5 level, but that's not realistic to the gaming culture and esports direction. Love start/stop matches, it confirms physicality and true battle for the ball - but I fear those times have passed.
Click to expand...

Replaying it in this days. To me personally, under the right conditions and from specific sides, it's still the virtual thing that screams "real football" better than everything else. Would pay something crazy for a game with that general, polished concept developed in a modern environment.
 
Chuny said:
EA is probably already thinking of licensing Referees and giving the real stats for FIFA 20...

Actually... it wouldn't be a bad idea for PES given the current state of (not-enough)fouls.
Click to expand...
They already do have licensed refs for the Premier League, wouldn't surprise me if there were already stats to make them reflect their real-life attributes hidden in the background.
 
jimmaz said:
Player frustration/discontent around fouls would be reduced if the AI tackle accuracy bore a more demonstrable relation to their defensive stats
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Well thats a good idea But this is gonna cause some play style divergences. Pepe and Ramos are considered world class top stats CB, but they are real butchers.
 
NIK778899 said:
Just been thinking about editing. Anyone reckon we could get some new lettering/numbering fonts this year? We've been stuck with the same for 10 years.
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Too right mate. I remember on PES 5 you would get fonts that very closely resembled real life counter parts from around the world such as premier league fonts, Nike, Addidas, Puma etc..

Now they're just more generic than ever and don't even have that nice plastic gloss effect you see on some of the licensed kits.
 
Danny Henry said:
Well thats a good idea But this is gonna cause some play style divergences. Pepe and Ramos are considered world class top stats CB, but they are real butchers.
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A good point. Illustrative of the fact that perhaps the stats need to be fleshed out further. e.g. "Aggressiveness" as an attribute. Speaking more generally, it's a shame that they removed a level of granularity when they streamlined the stats a few years ago.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Too right mate. I remember on PES 5 you would get fonts that very closely resembled real life counter parts from around the world such as premier league fonts, Nike, Addidas, Puma etc..

Now they're just more generic than ever and don't even have that nice plastic gloss effect you see on some of the licensed kits.
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One thing I massively miss is the outline. That worked so brilliantly like it does in real life, especially on striped kits.
 
jimmaz said:
A good point. Illustrative of the fact that perhaps the stats need to be fleshed out further. e.g. "Aggressiveness" as an attribute. Speaking more generally, it's a shame that they removed a level of granularity when they streamlined the stats a few years ago.
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Yes agreed here. They replaced tenacity for who knows what. Tackling is essentially the attitude of defensive prowess + ball-winning. Ball-winning was one of the most watered down stats last year, and made little impact to a 40-99 scale. I've said enough about that scale's impact, in general, but if they somehow increased the sensitivity of those values...we'd be in much better shape.
 
5-6 fouls per half would be perfect for me but according to Shogun's podcast thats not the case here. So my estimation is 1-3 per 10 min game again.
 
Chris Davies said:
The "dynamic news" and "exclusive offers" bit makes it sound identical to the panel on every F*FA screen, where they show clips of footballers and then say "why not try to buy them on Ultimate Team?"

Weird thing to add as a feature on your feature-list though... "Now with adverts!"
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It's what fans have been asking for via feedback :)
 
  • More licensed teams and players compared to PES 2018 – including 40 players per squad
That sound awesome, finally teams can have more players !!
 
its999maggle said:
2014 had relatively higher number of fouls. I still enjoy that gameplay.
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I ve been playing it today for the first time after reading your post and Chris Davis one on the last page of pes14 discussion thread and I have to say I am really impressed about that game. Yes they are plenty of fouls. Graphics looks good at least better than 17 on PC. And the gameplay is really refreshing for me. The cpu play smartly and quite pleasantly. Quite often I am founding myself saying wow. The ball and player movement feels free (despite the input lag on pc). Positioning around the pitch is really good. Passing for the user is not easy (especially on manual) you get pressed quite quickly.

Before playing that game I thought that 17 was the best modern pes and looking at videos of 19 I thought we are on the good track because it looked more like 17 than 18 IMO. But now I am just so surprised about the game evolution form that 14 version full of promises.

I might see more the bad side of the game with time, but for now I am really enjoying it and scratching my head because of the game direction after that one.
 
KONAMI said:
It’s a global effort, with leagues from countries such as Belgium, Scotland and Argentina, as well as Russian Premier Liga added exclusively. This takes the game to 400+ teams
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PES 2018 already has 422 clubs, 2 classic teams and 81 National Teams. Either they need to get their math right or no more fake leagues and other European/Latin American teams for us.
 
Chris Davies said:
The "dynamic news" and "exclusive offers" bit makes it sound identical to the panel on every F*FA screen, where they show clips of footballers and then say "why not try to buy them on Ultimate Team?"

Weird thing to add as a feature on your feature-list though... "Now with adverts!"
Click to expand...
9.99$ for AdBlock DLC! :LOL:

This is the bit I'm glad they advertise:
  • New HUD design based on featured licensed leagues
Click to expand...
 
its999maggle said:
PES 2018 already has 422 clubs, 2 classic teams and 81 National Teams. Either they need to get their math right or no more fake leagues and other European/Latin American teams for us.
Click to expand...
400+ teams means only real teams, fake teams arent "teams". Easy bro and yes konami cant right calculate XD 7+ new leagues have ~ 140 teams and remember konami have still previous leagues so now PES should have 550+ teams
 
Matt10 said:
Yeah, I saw some of the same as well. Some blatant and some down to interpretation. By no means trying to validate the decision making, but if we "at least" have some form of collision detection, then it will be a much better experience.

Finding that sweet spot of PES 5 to...who knows...would be really nice. I know I would personally love PES 5 level, but that's not realistic to the gaming culture and esports direction. Love start/stop matches, it confirms physicality and true battle for the ball - but I fear those times have passed.

This again goes back to the hope that the game starts to adjust the experience based on the minutes played, or even the mode played (ML vs MyClub). Eitherway, as long as that detection is stronger than before, I will be happier than I've been the last couple years.

Also, you are right about the stats. As you know analyzing match stats is a lot of what we do in FIFA slider creating, in addition to the possession and tackle/foul graphics. It confirms the locations of these occurrences and provides insight to determine if we need to increase certain slider values that are relevant to a midfield, etc.

Thinking already that 5-minute fix from PES 2017 may work quite nicely in PES 2019 to really get that physicality ramped up. We will see :D
Click to expand...

I was fine with PES 5 fouling. I actually played PES 6 properly for the first time today (i bought it second hand a couple of years ago, but only played a few matches on it). In the 5 or so matches i played in ML on Top Pleyer, i was only getting fouled about 1 or 2 times a match. What also stood out is how far PES has come since the PS2 days. So much more freedom now and variety to the matches. Don't get me wrong, they played great back in the day, but I think that stood out more back then as the competition was so poor. One thing i was impressed with though was the way the ai played. They mixed their play up a lot, such as playing long balls, to passing it around, sometimes looking to play into the corners. Was impressed for a game that old to do that (i played PES 5 religiously, but never analysed a game nearly as much as we do now back then, so can't remember how the ai played).
 
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