PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Lami]

Yes Pes 19 really has to stand out if I’m going to buy it.
A great ML.
A Pes 11-14 gameplay (at least) otherwise I’d rather keep playing older games or FIFA
Even though I loved the gameplay at first on 18,it got old fast,and ML is so awful and boring,both 16-17 had better feel

I started a new ML yesterday playing in the championship as Reading. It's been "OK" so far, but the one thing that's very frustrating is ALL the CPU's goals came from perfect through balls. Every single one of them. When they wish to score, they just hit a through ball and that's a guaranteed goal. They hardly ever miss.

Also, every single time they intercept my passes it's a perfect straight pass to the striker who's ALWAYS free to receive the ball. ALWAYS. Not once were any of my 4 defenders anywhere close to try and put pressure on the guy, challenge or intercept. Couple this crap with no fouls and stats making little difference and I have no idea how Adam is proud of this game.

Another thing is that many of the keeper's saves look predetermined if that makes sense. As in you shoot at a certain spot and you know what the keeper will do. It's the same jump and save animation. Same punch, same catch. You know what's going to happen. It looks too predetermined and scripted when it's supposed to be reactionary. These remind me of the older FIFA games where I knew I could only score from a specific spot and anything else will be saved the same way. When they're reactionary they look natural and the goals and saves look tons better. And the floaty saves need to go. If they fix these 2 things for keepers they'd be perfect. They're already much better than past years now.

I try my best to think as a footballer when I play which I've always done anyway. I don't like when a football game pushes me into a certain direction to play the game. Then it becomes just a game and I won't enjoy it. I enjoy football games specifically only if they allow me to translate real life football thinking into the game. That's what made PES attractive to me since its inception. I know there's a good number of us who are the same and pretty sure there's many more.

I'll continue playing but they have severely fd up single player gameplay which was already good decades ago. I don't know if it's the code or just the new direction. But honestly if they separate the game into 2, sp and myclub and have 2 different teams working on them that would be better.

Sp gameplay getting affected in favor of myclub gameplay is detrimental. It's unfair imo. This probably won't happen so again I suggest since back in the day they gave us edit mode to tailor the game to our individual tastes, these days we need sliders. Just give us every slider you can think of and let us tinker til our hearts' content. Completely customizable gameplay. Myclub fans can simply ignore it and keep it on default and enjoy their game.

And yet another long post. Started as a small paragraph but kept rambling..

 

[aderow]

Yes Pes 19 really has to stand out if I’m going to buy it.
A great ML.
A Pes 11-14 gameplay (at least) otherwise I’d rather keep playing older games or FIFA
Even though I loved the gameplay at first on 18,it got old fast,and ML is so awful and boring,both 16-17 had better feel

As I said, I went and rebought 17 and I've been having a really good time with it.

 

[Bonano]

How often do you guys score long rangers in PES 2018?

I set up Free Training (Juve vs Liverpool), Top Player, 2 defenders in the opposing team and tried to score from outside the penalty box but gave up after about 100 attempts. Different angles, different distances, shooting after changing direction, volleys, basic shooting, manual shooting, what have you - everything goes wide or the keeper deflects it. Maybe it's always like that in training mode? Aside from that played only 10 normal matches so far (also without any successful long shots) so I can't be sure about this yet but it doesn't look good, reminds me of vanilla PES 2014. Was it different before patches?

I remember really enjoying the shooting in 2017, nice variety of goals including shots from distance, felt almost like in the old days. It's only my second day with PES 2018 but my first impression is that the shooting has actually regressed compared to last year.

I don't score many long rangers, but every once in a while I do. I don't think shooting itself has regressed (I only use manual shooting btw) but I think the "issue" is that keepers have gotten better, maybe boardering on overpowered. I've definately had situations where I thought to myself "the keeper shouldn't have been able to get to that." But then again, sometimes I've watched the replay and saw that the ball wasn't as well placed as I initially thought.

I think also, maybe the game is a little better at accounting for contextuality when shooting, by which a shot from a slightly awkward angle is harder to pull off than in 2017.

To me there seems to be a sweet spot on the power bar for high placed long rangers. So if you hold the shoot button until the bar reaches just below of max it will go to the top of the goal. See these videos for reference and look at the power bar:

 

[PESBUL]

PES LEAGUE 2018 FInals in Milano
Yes, I know the level and skill of players is not that good, we all know that only cheaters win online PES LEAGUES. There is impossible to play fair and qualify.

 

[rockstrongo]

As I said, I went and rebought 17 and I've been having a really good time with it.

I have 5 seasons of ML saved,might give it a go again
Had tons of fun playing it when I played it before

 

[rockstrongo]

I started a new ML yesterday playing in the championship as Reading. It's been "OK" so far, but the one thing that's very frustrating is ALL the CPU's goals came from perfect through balls. Every single one of them. When they wish to score, they just hit a through ball and that's a guaranteed goal. They hardly ever miss.

Also, every single time they intercept my passes it's a perfect straight pass to the striker who's ALWAYS free to receive the ball. ALWAYS. Not once were any of my 4 defenders anywhere close to try and put pressure on the guy, challenge or intercept. Couple this crap with no fouls and stats making little difference and I have no idea how Adam is proud of this game.

Another thing is that many of the keeper's saves look predetermined if that makes sense. As in you shoot at a certain spot and you know what the keeper will do. It's the same jump and save animation. Same punch, same catch. You know what's going to happen. It looks too predetermined and scripted when it's supposed to be reactionary. These remind me of the older FIFA games where I knew I could only score from a specific spot and anything else will be saved the same way. When they're reactionary they look natural and the goals and saves look tons better. And the floaty saves need to go. If they fix these 2 things for keepers they'd be perfect. They're already much better than past years now.

I try my best to think as a footballer when I play which I've always done anyway. I don't like when a football game pushes me into a certain direction to play the game. Then it becomes just a game and I won't enjoy it. I enjoy football games specifically only if they allow me to translate real life football thinking into the game. That's what made PES attractive to me since its inception. I know there's a good number of us who are the same and pretty sure there's many more.

I'll continue playing but they have severely fd up single player gameplay which was already good decades ago. I don't know if it's the code or just the new direction. But honestly if they separate the game into 2, sp and myclub and have 2 different teams working on them that would be better.

Sp gameplay getting affected in favor of myclub gameplay is detrimental. It's unfair imo. This probably won't happen so again I suggest since back in the day they gave us edit mode to tailor the game to our individual tastes, these days we need sliders. Just give us every slider you can think of and let us tinker til our hearts' content. Completely customizable gameplay. Myclub fans can simply ignore it and keep it on default and enjoy their game.

And yet another long post. Started as a small paragraph but kept rambling..

I’m getting closer and closer to be pro sliders myself Lami.
Since they can’t get fundamentals right anymore,you could overlook certain things in the past due to the game as a whole was alright,but the scripting,the same way they score,predictable gameplay,it’s needed I guess.
Had high hopes going in on 18,mainly because the team you play as,plays alright,positions etc,crap,but movement,and player physics really good,cpu though...horrible!
I’m searching high and low for older titles for my Pes fix,thinking about getting Pes 14,didn’t really play it since I switched from 360 to XB1 back then
Good points Lami

 

[saintric]

I started a new ML yesterday playing in the championship as Reading. It's been "OK" so far, but the one thing that's very frustrating is ALL the CPU's goals came from perfect through balls. Every single one of them. When they wish to score, they just hit a through ball and that's a guaranteed goal. They hardly ever miss.

Also, every single time they intercept my passes it's a perfect straight pass to the striker who's ALWAYS free to receive the ball. ALWAYS. Not once were any of my 4 defenders anywhere close to try and put pressure on the guy, challenge or intercept. Couple this crap with no fouls and stats making little difference and I have no idea how Adam is proud of this game.

Another thing is that many of the keeper's saves look predetermined if that makes sense. As in you shoot at a certain spot and you know what the keeper will do. It's the same jump and save animation. Same punch, same catch. You know what's going to happen. It looks too predetermined and scripted when it's supposed to be reactionary. These remind me of the older FIFA games where I knew I could only score from a specific spot and anything else will be saved the same way. When they're reactionary they look natural and the goals and saves look tons better. And the floaty saves need to go. If they fix these 2 things for keepers they'd be perfect. They're already much better than past years now.

I try my best to think as a footballer when I play which I've always done anyway. I don't like when a football game pushes me into a certain direction to play the game. Then it becomes just a game and I won't enjoy it. I enjoy football games specifically only if they allow me to translate real life football thinking into the game. That's what made PES attractive to me since its inception. I know there's a good number of us who are the same and pretty sure there's many more.

I'll continue playing but they have severely fd up single player gameplay which was already good decades ago. I don't know if it's the code or just the new direction. But honestly if they separate the game into 2, sp and myclub and have 2 different teams working on them that would be better.

Sp gameplay getting affected in favor of myclub gameplay is detrimental. It's unfair imo. This probably won't happen so again I suggest since back in the day they gave us edit mode to tailor the game to our individual tastes, these days we need sliders. Just give us every slider you can think of and let us tinker til our hearts' content. Completely customizable gameplay. Myclub fans can simply ignore it and keep it on default and enjoy their game.

And yet another long post. Started as a small paragraph but kept rambling..

I was like that in my first season on Superstar level the AI was scoring at will from through balls and I really struggled to build up any play at all it was a nightmare I ended up scoring 39 goals but conceding 63 in my first season of serie B and only finished 12th after a good finish to the season from being bottom until january

I know its stating the obvious to you but team spirit makes a huge huge difference im now in season 2 still on superstar and this is the table

I have only conceded 4 goals in 9 games so far and 3 of them came in my only loss to Cagliari and I have kept 7 clean sheets I play a catenaccio style

granted I have only scored 9 but my teams a brick wall at the back so far their chip ball spamming has become easier to defend and made them try different routes to goal a bit more. Give it till season 2 with 90 team spirit and you will find it more enjoyable to play the football you want I can play some beautiful stuff now although there is still the odd frustrating passing moments where you feel a bit cheated by the game as it passes straight to an AI player while your CF is open or the blood boiling moments when you cannot clear the ball due to delays

also I agree stats are not as noticeable as they should be but every now and then a player really stands out my whole team changed pretty much soon as a signed this guy who cost me my whole transfer budget

Ante Ćorić is like some mini wc94 maradona for me sits in the middle of the field and dictates play you can really feel the difference in his stats from his dribbling, passing and the way he turns players and hold them off

I didnt enjoy season 1 but keep at it and it does get better despite the flaws with the game some enjoyment is there

 

[rockstrongo]

I was like that in my first season on Superstar level the AI was scoring at will from through balls and I really struggled to build up any play at all it was a nightmare I ended up scoring 39 goals but conceding 63 in my first season of serie B and only finished 12th after a good finish to the season from being bottom until january

I know its stating the obvious to you but team spirit makes a huge huge difference im now in season 2 still on superstar and this is the table

I have only conceded 4 goals in 9 games so far and 3 of them came in my only loss to Cagliari and I have kept 7 clean sheets I play a catenaccio style

granted I have only scored 9 but my teams a brick wall at the back so far their chip ball spamming has become easier to defend and made them try different routes to goal a bit more. Give it till season 2 with 90 team spirit and you will find it more enjoyable to play the football you want I can play some beautiful stuff now although there is still the odd frustrating passing moments where you feel a bit cheated by the game as it passes straight to an AI player while your CF is open or the blood boiling moments when you cannot clear the ball due to delays

also I agree stats are not as noticeable as they should be but every now and then a player really stands out my whole team changed pretty much soon as a signed this guy who cost me my whole transfer budget

Ante Ćorić is like some mini wc94 maradona for me sits in the middle of the field and dictates play you can really feel the difference in his stats from his dribbling, passing and the way he turns players and hold them off

I didnt enjoy season 1 but keep at it and it does get better despite the flaws with the game some enjoyment is there

You give hope to us PEsimists,really need to start playing Pes again.
Im 3/4 season in on my Torino save,recon it’ll be tough getting back since I haven’t played since December.
But I’ll getting shit done later today
Good pep talk Saintric

 

[Ameppe]

I started a new ML yesterday playing in the championship as Reading. It's been "OK" so far, but the one thing that's very frustrating is ALL the CPU's goals came from perfect through balls. Every single one of them. When they wish to score, they just hit a through ball and that's a guaranteed goal. They hardly ever miss.

Also, every single time they intercept my passes it's a perfect straight pass to the striker who's ALWAYS free to receive the ball. ALWAYS. Not once were any of my 4 defenders anywhere close to try and put pressure on the guy, challenge or intercept. Couple this crap with no fouls and stats making little difference and I have no idea how Adam is proud of this game.

Another thing is that many of the keeper's saves look predetermined if that makes sense. As in you shoot at a certain spot and you know what the keeper will do. It's the same jump and save animation. Same punch, same catch. You know what's going to happen. It looks too predetermined and scripted when it's supposed to be reactionary. These remind me of the older FIFA games where I knew I could only score from a specific spot and anything else will be saved the same way. When they're reactionary they look natural and the goals and saves look tons better. And the floaty saves need to go. If they fix these 2 things for keepers they'd be perfect. They're already much better than past years now.

I try my best to think as a footballer when I play which I've always done anyway. I don't like when a football game pushes me into a certain direction to play the game. Then it becomes just a game and I won't enjoy it. I enjoy football games specifically only if they allow me to translate real life football thinking into the game. That's what made PES attractive to me since its inception. I know there's a good number of us who are the same and pretty sure there's many more.

I'll continue playing but they have severely fd up single player gameplay which was already good decades ago. I don't know if it's the code or just the new direction. But honestly if they separate the game into 2, sp and myclub and have 2 different teams working on them that would be better.

Sp gameplay getting affected in favor of myclub gameplay is detrimental. It's unfair imo. This probably won't happen so again I suggest since back in the day they gave us edit mode to tailor the game to our individual tastes, these days we need sliders. Just give us every slider you can think of and let us tinker til our hearts' content. Completely customizable gameplay. Myclub fans can simply ignore it and keep it on default and enjoy their game.

And yet another long post. Started as a small paragraph but kept rambling..

Don't want to be pessimistic but you will abandon it.

I'm in the same boat, have a ML season going on since forever, sometimes (once a month) i play 5-6 matches but can't play more than that before noticing all the inconsistencies the game has, the worst being players having no individuality when CPU attacks. I see 60 rated players making perfect long through ball passes like they were Pirlo and i lose the will to continue playing.

Very low rated teams playing first touch and chaining perfect passes like they are Barca, etc. This is not simulation or realistic at all, it's just frustrating.

 

[Chuny]

Sliders won't be the salvation.
But they may very well be the helping hand that Konami devs need. Specially for offline players. Let us satisfy ourselves (in a non sexual way) so they can focus on what they really care, which are online customers.

 

[Lami]

I was like that in my first season on Superstar level the AI was scoring at will from through balls and I really struggled to build up any play at all it was a nightmare I ended up scoring 39 goals but conceding 63 in my first season of serie B and only finished 12th after a good finish to the season from being bottom until january

I know its stating the obvious to you but team spirit makes a huge huge difference im now in season 2 still on superstar and this is the table

I have only conceded 4 goals in 9 games so far and 3 of them came in my only loss to Cagliari and I have kept 7 clean sheets I play a catenaccio style

granted I have only scored 9 but my teams a brick wall at the back so far their chip ball spamming has become easier to defend and made them try different routes to goal a bit more. Give it till season 2 with 90 team spirit and you will find it more enjoyable to play the football you want I can play some beautiful stuff now although there is still the odd frustrating passing moments where you feel a bit cheated by the game as it passes straight to an AI player while your CF is open or the blood boiling moments when you cannot clear the ball due to delays

also I agree stats are not as noticeable as they should be but every now and then a player really stands out my whole team changed pretty much soon as a signed this guy who cost me my whole transfer budget

Ante Ćorić is like some mini wc94 maradona for me sits in the middle of the field and dictates play you can really feel the difference in his stats from his dribbling, passing and the way he turns players and hold them off

I didnt enjoy season 1 but keep at it and it does get better despite the flaws with the game some enjoyment is there

I'm OK with the team spirit, we had that stat in the older days as teamwork, which worked the same way sort of. But that shouldn't result in average/weak opposition players suddenly string inch perfect passes like superstars like @Ameppe mentioned. Yes they can happen of course, but not at will. I'm totally OK with them trying through pass after through pass until they get one right. Makes them human. Both of us should be struggling to a degree.

 

[sonix]

In regard to FIFA or PES switching to subscription model - if anything they may go full "free"-to-play route, though I hope this won't happen. The yearly cycle of sports games may not be ideal, but at least it is an incentive for developers to make some significant changes to games instead of small tweaks here and there to "not upset the playerbase", especially when the games would focus on online competitive modes. And it also gives us a chance to go back to older games if we so choose. With a switch to one FIFA or PES, without the added numbers, just updated from time to time, this will be no longer the case.

Make a significant tweak so that people who thought they were good at the game suddenly would start loosing (because it got more realistic and thus harder, for example), seemingly because of said changes, and you have an angry crowd demanding to revert this.

Obviously this affects PES and FIFA already but I think it would actually slow down the evolution of those games even more. And the revolutionary stuff, like switching to a completely new engine, total revamp of the game, would become even more rare than it is now. Not to mention, the game tweaks/patches would at that point be based almost completely on the online crowd feedback, and I don't think any of us want that.

I may be wrong here, but from what I see most people who play football games online (or any game really), competitively, don't really seem to care if the game is realistic or a good virtual approximation of what football is - they treat it as a game, a system you have to understand, master and (if necessary) exploit in order to win win win. You can see this in player behavior, even the small things like immediately skipping every single cutscene/replay because it just gets in the way, quitting after conceding a single goal, the whole pursuit of what's meta to ensure success. I look at reddit/FIFA once in a while and all of the discussion seems to revolve around scripting, icons, card updates, pack luck, lags, "I won 28 games on WL" - hardly any discussion about the actual football side of FIFA. And note that this is the FIFA community, not FUT which obviously has it own subreddit. To compare, there's also FIFAcareers but I'd say the post count is literally 100 times lower. I know there are FIFA discussions outside of reddit, but I'd wager it's a good reflection of what FIFA players think about most of the time.

I believe the eventual f2p model is the only one possible, since the console gamers, who constitute most of the playerbase, already pay their subscription - PS Plus or Xbox Live - and people are not willing to add anything more to that. They may splurge their earnings on microtransactions but stacking monthly subscriptions for different games is something people are much less inclined to do - the game no longer remains free to play. Better stick to whales to support your business model.

Konami may have a good idea with releasing the Lite version with full access to myClub and barely anything else, I wonder why EA did not parrot that especially since FUT earnings alone are apparently on par with the game's sales - why not increase them by letting everyone download FIFA - FUT edition for free? Maybe that is the (near) future - stick with f2p versions and play the "Gacha" mode or buy the game for full experience, your choice. The only scary part is - what if the sales of full games became so minuscule compared to the microtransaction revenue that only myClub and FUT would remain? It's a business after all, and if the CEOs will decide there is no need for single player content anymore as it barely affects sales, because nobody really plays them anymore, that's a probability.

Ideally (well, just an opinion) myClub and FUT would become separate entities, games on their own, available for free, while the "boxed" games would continue on their own path with yearly updates, aimed for a different, more hardcore crowd. You could still lure the only-online players to boost the sales with some hefty and unique bonuses for their myClub/FUT needs. Problem is, that would actually require employing an additional dev team that would handle the online version of the game exclusively, while the original dev team would keep working at the "original" one. Or would it be the newly appointed "B" team to handle the original game, while the bigger and more experienced team would move on to myClub/FUT version because of its higher priority (i.e. bigger bucks)?. Anyway, maybe EA could afford to do that, but Konami - serious doubt.

Also heard rumblings World Cup game will be DLC and not a stand alone game which is really disappointing because those have been some of my favorite one-off games going back to World Cup 98. Anyone read anything of the World Cup game/DLC?

It's 3 months before the World Cup and we still don't really know. At this time of year all the previous WC games (standalone) were already unveiled. I also had hopes for a full-fledged WC game from EA cause if it happened it would probably be the best WC game ever, though 2010 still stands strong IMO, best footy of last generation together with PES 2013. And maybe except for the soundtrack as 2006 and 2010 were phenomenal.

Full roster of national teams - that's all I really need, I wish Konami did include all of them in PES, even with all players named like "Mongolia001" (remember the Dutch player names in PES 2?) and all kits in pink - I don't care, I can edit that, just put them in the game! EA used to put tons of national teams in FIFA as well but ever since 2003 it's always just 50 or so of them, always with glaring omissions (Japan, Netherlands etc., though I know lack of Japan is due to Konami holding the license).

Unfortunately, it will probably be a free DLC, or even just an event on FUT, and it will only include the teams qualified for the World Cup. I would call it a success if they added a single Russian stadium. Actually, I wonder if PES will receive a World Cup themed DLC as well, like PES 2014 did.

Here's one I hit and I have another from quite some distance that surprised me.
http://xboxclips.com/CalcioCalabrese/73f73ac2-a01f-47f5-be23-740225ea741f

Nice one! I have to try out that camera angle, what are the settings exactly?

I don't score many long rangers, but every once in a while I do. I don't think shooting itself has regressed (I only use manual shooting btw) but I think the "issue" is that keepers have gotten better, maybe boardering on overpowered. I've definately had situations where I thought to myself "the keeper shouldn't have been able to get to that." But then again, sometimes I've watched the replay and saw that the ball wasn't as well placed as I initially thought.

I think also, maybe the game is a little better at accounting for contextuality when shooting, by which a shot from a slightly awkward angle is harder to pull off than in 2017.

To me there seems to be a sweet spot on the power bar for high placed long rangers. So if you hold the shoot button until the bar reaches just below of max it will go to the top of the goal. See these videos for reference and look at the power bar:

I had several games yesterday (had a good time, every match was different, sometimes crazy but fun nonetheless) and saw some goals outside of the box, and even managed to score a free kick (glad they got rid of the whole shot trajectory stuff). Yeah, I guess testing shooting in training mode is not a good idea since the keepers behave differently there - always on the spot, not distracted etc. During a real match their response may sometimes get delayed or can get confused by player positioning or so I think. I mean, I saw the KingOfPES vid on youtube, 9 minutes of screamers on superstar and legendary (according to his description) so I realize it's possible, but you can easily get the impression that the balance is not quite there.

 

[xicpanad]

Pretty good talk here. I´ve been a silent player for the last months, and I hate this game because I can´t really stop playing it, even when I know that it will f@£k my brains out on some matches. Worst thing for me is the scripting. I´ve been playing for some 4/5 seasons. Started on Nice, then Marseille , and now M United. Never realy won anything. with Marseille I finished 2nd, and M United have now 86 TS, but there are still matches where I feel I have to loose, no matter what. Funny things, on cup matches or derbies, usually I have 2 or 3 important players on orange/red arrow. Even with 86 TS my team behaves like a 40 TS, with a bunch of kids on a school break. They intentionally miss the ball, shots that should go in but for some reason, don´t. Yesterday I played against Tottenham and I started to assist all types of weird things on the pitch. It´s not like the game is that bad all the time, but you all know, you´ve seen it, when you feel like that´s some weird s#$t on the air, and boom, CPU scores. I was playing very well on the first half, 11 shots, 4 on target (guaranteed goals to be honest), but GK saves them all, and then, 1st shot on Tottenham, goal. Just reading this doesn´t mean like this wouldn´t happen IRL, it does... But you know what I mean, there are matches were you just feel injusticed. Overall it´s a good experience, but then it´s ruined on those matches were you want to win, you need to win, but you loose for some odd reason, not beacuse of CPU skill or a better tactic... you just loose.

 

[Madmac79]

In regard to FIFA or PES switching to subscription model - if anything they may go full "free"-to-play route, though I hope this won't happen. The yearly cycle of sports games may not be ideal, but at least it is an incentive for developers to make some significant changes to games instead of small tweaks here and there to "not upset the playerbase", especially when the games would focus on online competitive modes. And it also gives us a chance to go back to older games if we so choose. With a switch to one FIFA or PES, without the added numbers, just updated from time to time, this will be no longer the case.

Make a significant tweak so that people who thought they were good at the game suddenly would start loosing (because it got more realistic and thus harder, for example), seemingly because of said changes, and you have an angry crowd demanding to revert this.

Obviously this affects PES and FIFA already but I think it would actually slow down the evolution of those games even more. And the revolutionary stuff, like switching to a completely new engine, total revamp of the game, would become even more rare than it is now. Not to mention, the game tweaks/patches would at that point be based almost completely on the online crowd feedback, and I don't think any of us want that.

I may be wrong here, but from what I see most people who play football games online (or any game really), competitively, don't really seem to care if the game is realistic or a good virtual approximation of what football is - they treat it as a game, a system you have to understand, master and (if necessary) exploit in order to win win win. You can see this in player behavior, even the small things like immediately skipping every single cutscene/replay because it just gets in the way, quitting after conceding a single goal, the whole pursuit of what's meta to ensure success. I look at reddit/FIFA once in a while and all of the discussion seems to revolve around scripting, icons, card updates, pack luck, lags, "I won 28 games on WL" - hardly any discussion about the actual football side of FIFA. And note that this is the FIFA community, not FUT which obviously has it own subreddit. To compare, there's also FIFAcareers but I'd say the post count is literally 100 times lower. I know there are FIFA discussions outside of reddit, but I'd wager it's a good reflection of what FIFA players think about most of the time.

I believe the eventual f2p model is the only one possible, since the console gamers, who constitute most of the playerbase, already pay their subscription - PS Plus or Xbox Live - and people are not willing to add anything more to that. They may splurge their earnings on microtransactions but stacking monthly subscriptions for different games is something people are much less inclined to do - the game no longer remains free to play. Better stick to whales to support your business model.

Konami may have a good idea with releasing the Lite version with full access to myClub and barely anything else, I wonder why EA did not parrot that especially since FUT earnings alone are apparently on par with the game's sales - why not increase them by letting everyone download FIFA - FUT edition for free? Maybe that is the (near) future - stick with f2p versions and play the "Gacha" mode or buy the game for full experience, your choice. The only scary part is - what if the sales of full games became so minuscule compared to the microtransaction revenue that only myClub and FUT would remain? It's a business after all, and if the CEOs will decide there is no need for single player content anymore as it barely affects sales, because nobody really plays them anymore, that's a probability.

Ideally (well, just an opinion) myClub and FUT would become separate entities, games on their own, available for free, while the "boxed" games would continue on their own path with yearly updates, aimed for a different, more hardcore crowd. You could still lure the only-online players to boost the sales with some hefty and unique bonuses for their myClub/FUT needs. Problem is, that would actually require employing an additional dev team that would handle the online version of the game exclusively, while the original dev team would keep working at the "original" one. Or would it be the newly appointed "B" team to handle the original game, while the bigger and more experienced team would move on to myClub/FUT version because of its higher priority (i.e. bigger bucks)?. Anyway, maybe EA could afford to do that, but Konami - serious doubt.

I think you explained pretty clearly and well why I think that the subscription model is a disgrace, and why with this FUT/My Club infamous duo reigning, who long for a different soccer experience it's practically doomed.

I also don't believe for a single second they'll ever release two different versions at that point, but you seem to be aware of it as well.

 

[saintric]

Pretty good talk here. I´ve been a silent player for the last months, and I hate this game because I can´t really stop playing it, even when I know that it will f@£k my brains out on some matches. Worst thing for me is the scripting. I´ve been playing for some 4/5 seasons. Started on Nice, then Marseille , and now M United. Never realy won anything. with Marseille I finished 2nd, and M United have now 86 TS, but there are still matches where I feel I have to loose, no matter what. Funny things, on cup matches or derbies, usually I have 2 or 3 important players on orange/red arrow. Even with 86 TS my team behaves like a 40 TS, with a bunch of kids on a school break. They intentionally miss the ball, shots that should go in but for some reason, don´t. Yesterday I played against Tottenham and I started to assist all types of weird things on the pitch. It´s not like the game is that bad all the time, but you all know, you´ve seen it, when you feel like that´s some weird s#$t on the air, and boom, CPU scores. I was playing very well on the first half, 11 shots, 4 on target (guaranteed goals to be honest), but GK saves them all, and then, 1st shot on Tottenham, goal. Just reading this doesn´t mean like this wouldn´t happen IRL, it does... But you know what I mean, there are matches were you just feel injusticed. Overall it´s a good experience, but then it´s ruined on those matches were you want to win, you need to win, but you loose for some odd reason, not beacuse of CPU skill or a better tactic... you just loose.

yep this does happen far too often it almost feels like ok a slight bit of scripting is ok but almost every major moment or important game it will do everything in its power to stop you winning its almost like they forgot to add an off switch for the momentum going against you

I only play superstar because im finding top player too easy id gladly drop down if the level was say pes 2017 superstar on 2018 top play but i have to stick to superstar for a challenge and its sadistic as hell you can enjoy it by over coming the challenge now and then but its like playing against 11 cyborgs I felt 2017 had it just about right on superstar

 

[xicpanad]

Yep. Guess what, it happen on Pro as well. Pro level gets boring fast, because "normal" matches are too easy at some point. Then comes a match or two, wich you loose, simply because you have to. My main feeling is that most of the time I´m fighting with my players to keep them on track, well positioned, and correcting the mistakes they keep doing over and over again, instead of trying to actually break the CPU defense. It´s a very bad way of making this game harder, CPU gets better, but our AI gets dumber. It´s very noticeable and annoying.

 

[manmachine]

Konami may have a good idea with releasing the Lite version with full access to myClub and barely anything else, I wonder why EA did not parrot that especially since FUT earnings alone are apparently on par with the game's sales - why not increase them by letting everyone download FIFA - FUT edition for free?

I think they actually already tried it, years ago. It was called Fifa World:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World

It didn't last long. I guess nobody jumped on board and you know what? I think they make more money as is, anyway. People buy the game every year and then re-buy packs/cards all over again!

I may be wrong here, but from what I see most people who play football games online (or any game really), competitively, don't really seem to care if the game is realistic or a good virtual approximation of what football is - they treat it as a game, a system you have to understand, master and (if necessary) exploit in order to win win win.

100% true. This lovely quote from a FUT user (from another site/forum) is pure gold:

"Hell no. If you want realistic gameplay go play offline or normal seasons where u play with "normal teams". FUT has nothing to do with realistic since you make your own team to be competetive with."

This was a reply to someone wanting rain/snow on fut. I kinda respect this guy's perspective. He doesn't want a realistic football game, and he's not defending the game as one ("well one time in 1967 in a cup game in hawaii there were no fouls called so it's realistic!").

Ideally (well, just an opinion) myClub and FUT would become separate entities

Amen. The path to getting our footy games back certainly requires everyone waking up to the fact that offline and fut/myclub can not be bridged. "Realistic" gameplay for offline hurts the e-sport side of things and vice versa. So in retrospect, maybe the failure of fifa world was a bad thing for everyone. It will be interesting to see what happens with pes lite.

 

[Bonano]

I may be wrong here, but from what I see most people who play football games online (or any game really), competitively, don't really seem to care if the game is realistic or a good virtual approximation of what football is - they treat it as a game, a system you have to understand, master and (if necessary) exploit in order to win win win. You can see this in player behavior, even the small things like immediately skipping every single cutscene/replay because it just gets in the way, quitting after conceding a single goal, the whole pursuit of what's meta to ensure success.

Absolutely true, well put! Every once in a while you come up against a guy in online divisions who plays proper football but most of the time it's just pressure and passing/through ball spammers; guys using Barcelona and playing counter attack football. I had hopes that PES would want stand out from that given it's history and I thought they were heading that way with the beta, but the final game went right back to the style since 2015.
It really is a shame because guys with a more sim approach also want to play online but personally I can't get into with the style of play on that dominates.
They really ought to allow users to set up online leagues and cups within the game, so like minded groups of players could play each other. Imagine "The Evo-web World Cup 2018" where a guy from here would set it up on his PS4 system and through PSN invite those who signed up for it here, and everything from group matches till the final would be saved and handled directly in game. It wouldn't make them any extra money so I doubt they'd ever do it but just imagine how cool it'd be. A friend of mine actually told me this was possible sometime during the PS3 era but never owned one myself so don't know (had to keep out of distractions during Uni), but can anyone confirm?

Full roster of national teams - that's all I really need, I wish Konami did include all of them in PES, even with all players named like "Mongolia001" (remember the Dutch player names in PES 2?) and all kits in pink - I don't care, I can edit that, just put them in the game! EA used to put tons of national teams in FIFA as well but ever since 2003 it's always just 50 or so of them, always with glaring omissions (Japan, Netherlands etc., though I know lack of Japan is due to Konami holding the license).

Yeah, I remember The Oranges - my user name is a tribute to Barca's goalkeeper Roberto Bonano during the time of the PES 2 game. My friend who I played countless matches against was always Man United and me Barca with Rivaldo, Kluivert, Saviola and such, and my mate would always pronounce Bonano's name in a derogatory fashion to psyche me and because he thought the name sounded silly I guess

If you are on PS4 you can get an option file with the kits for international teams and from there on you just need to assign the correct players to the teams since they are already in the game (with correct names). I'm pretty sure it's that simple and there are Youtube videos that goes through the correct line up for each team. If you want, I'll try to export my the teams in my game so you can copy them onto yours. I've never done it before though so I can't guarantee it'll work or if I'm able to do it.

 

[Lami]

Absolutely true, well put! Every once in a while you come up against a guy in online divisions who plays proper football but most of the time it's just pressure and passing/through ball spammers; guys using Barcelona and playing counter attack football. I had hopes that PES would want stand out from that given it's history and I thought they were heading that way with the beta, but the final game went right back to the style since 2015.
It really is a shame because guys with a more sim approach also want to play online but personally I can't get into with the style of play on that dominates.
They really ought to allow users to set up online leagues and cups within the game, so like minded groups of players could play each other. Imagine "The Evo-web World Cup 2018" where a guy from here would set it up on his PS4 system and through PSN invite those who signed up for it here, and everything from group matches till the final would be saved and handled directly in game. It wouldn't make them any extra money so I doubt they'd ever do it but just imagine how cool it'd be. A friend of mine actually told me this was possible sometime during the PS3 era but never owned one myself so don't know (had to keep out of distractions during Uni), but can anyone confirm?



Yeah, I remember The Oranges - my user name is a tribute to Barca's goalkeeper Roberto Bonano during the time of the PES 2 game. My friend who I played countless matches against was always Man United and me Barca with Rivaldo, Kluivert, Saviola and such, and my mate would always pronounce Bonano's name in a derogatory fashion to psyche me and because he thought the name sounded silly I guess

If you are on PS4 you can get an option file with the kits for international teams and from there on you just need to assign the correct players to the teams since they are already in the game (with correct names). I'm pretty sure it's that simple and there are Youtube videos that goes through the correct line up for each team. If you want, I'll try to export my the teams in my game so you can copy them onto yours. I've never done it before though so I can't guarantee it'll work or if I'm able to do it.

Yea one of the PS3 games had a community mode where we had an evoweb community league. I can't remember which one though. 2010? 11? 13?

 

[*aLe]

2010 I think it was. Every player participating in the community had a profile and the game would keep record of results of matches between one player and another, show the statistics, calculate the standings, and so on.

 

[Bonano]

So it's true about the in game online league mode! I was beginning to think that maybe I misunderstood my friend since I haven't seen anyone in the community complain it isn't in the game anymore.

Did it work well back then and would people here like to see it return?

 

[Bonano]

@*aLe

Yeah sounds like what he explained to me. So you couldn't play a cup such as the World Cup with 32 users for instance?

 

[*aLe]

I don't remember honestly if it worked online too or if it was offline only (we used it offline only) but it was for sure a blast for tournaments with friends.
Anyway I see your point there, having it back with the chance to "share" a community with friends on PSN (or Steam, or Xbox Live) would be great.

I mean, that shouldn't be impossible to do after all.

 

[Lami]

So it's true about the in game online league mode! I was beginning to think that maybe I misunderstood my friend since I haven't seen anyone in the community complain it isn't in the game anymore.

Did it work well back then and would people here like to see it return?

It worked well. And we actually complained but can't remember which Konami rep said something like not many people were using it. Whatever.

 

[Bonano]

I'd love to see that back because it would give one the opportunity to play against like minded people without having to use extra stuff like websites or apps to keep track of the league/cup. I think it would be somewhat of a success as I know of at least 3 communities playing private tournaments and either way I think it's sorely needed with the state of the current setup of online gaming.

But again, if Konami don't have a way to monetize it they don't see it as being in their interest to spend ressources on it. If they did it they would probably charge for it in some way...

 

[sonix]

Finished editing yesterday so finally I can just play. I have to say that so far PES 2018 grows on me every day (admittedly it's only been 4 days) - every match is different and interesting. I'm trying to decide which speed setting fits me best before starting ML, even tried +2 - was fun, kinda old-school but I think I'll stick to +1. Had some nice moments, maybe nothing special but I'll share with you:





After a long period without PES and occasional FIFA here and there I get to remember why PES is still the better game. The Verratti's effort for example - maybe I'm just a noob at the EA game but honestly, this kind of dribbling would be impossible in FIFA to pull off, and certainly not against the AI on a comparable difficulty level (Top Player=World Class). FIFA still has this weird disconnect between your input and what the player does on the pitch and nowhere it is more pronounced than during the dribbling i.e. what you do for most of the time - the level of precision and feedback you get in PES when just running with the ball is, and always was, on another level. Simply wrong-footing a defender, like in Immobile's goal, also feels impossible since if a player contains you - he will contain you no matter what happens, turning at light speed as if he had no weight. Just some thought after a couple of matches.

 

[Flame]

glad that you enjoy the game but like you said 'before starting ml'
thats the nightmare, playing on exhibition, league mode or cup mode always taste the best of the game
however ml is just scripted and totally different from exhibition
no wonder why people played the demo and said the game was good every year
not only demo is a bit different and better than full game, but also you can only play exhibition in demo
until you play ml, you don't find many big problems in the game

 

[sonix]

I know how ML works, I play it every year. I realize there is some scripting but I guess it does not bother me that much. When you play PES for so many years you just get used to it and accept it as part of the challenge - and it's been there since the PS2 days. I can play PES 6 and tell that a goal is going to happen with pretty good accuracy, so there's nothing new under the sun.

Sometime ago I shared my stance on scripting, and I stand by that:

I have a similar opinion about the dreaded scripting.

As long as the AI in football games or games in general can be rudimentary at most, implementing mechanics such as scripting in PES is, on balance, a good idea. Why? I played enough footy games in my time (before we were subjected to current PES-FIFA two party system) that were enjoyable and promising but had one critical issue, at least from the point of view of a single-player oriented chap - dreadful offensive AI. It was hard to win, challenging to draw and... challenging to lose. The venerable Football Kingdom, as I remember it, had this problem as well and so did many other footie games, including older FIFA games, before they ventured into the "unbalanced in favor of CPU" direction.

PES series avoided this by having a well balanced (in comparison to other titles) gameplay and by implementing something that helped the AI remain challenging and to provide something that breaks the monotony of a fully predictible game flow, even if it turns out obnoxious and unfair. In a way, scripting also may give a (admittedly fake) sense of momentum, or giving a match some sort of a scenario.

In the end, it's all about the AI catching up to the player - sometimes it scores in a legit way, sometimes you think it didn't but it actually did and it was you who made some fatal mistakes, and sometimes it blatantly cheats. Any experienced PES player can tell a goal is going to happen many seconds before it. And really, I learned to live with this and to a degree, appreciate it, because I'll rather have a game were AI is able to score and provide a challenge than AI that always plays by the rules, is not very good at it and, even on highest difficulty settings, turns into a whipping boy after just a few days of playing.

Then again, I believe that every match is winnable and no matter how hard the CPU tries to cheat it's always possible to outdo it, it may just be extra hard. I know people have posted before about trying to redo a match 25 times and only managing to win once, which may be a proof that some games are just meant to be impossible. Than again, some folks out there were able to go full seasons without conceding a win on Superstar, claiming that PES against AI is a waste of time because there is no challenge.

Scripting may be infuriating at times, but I still prefer it to 95% passing accuracy AI teams have in FIFA, regardless of team level. An example of an unbalanced part of game that affects almost every match, rather than every few of them.

I also believe that scripting can happen in any match, not just ML. And compared to FIFA, I find PES scripting much less obnoxious and less predictable so to speak - sometimes it feels that the most dangerous thing you can do in FIFA is to score a goal - guaranteed instant straight-from-kick off attack from the CPU, and often successful. When it's doubled with the flawed defending system that often makes you feel utterly powerless it can be super frustrating. PES is the lesser of two evils.

 

[majuh]

And compared to FIFA, I find PES scripting much less obnoxious and less predictable so to speak - sometimes it feels that the most dangerous thing you can do in FIFA is to score a goal - guaranteed instant straight-from-kick off attack from the CPU, and often successful. When it's doubled with the flawed defending system that often makes you feel utterly powerless it can be super frustrating. PES is the lesser of two evils.

Funnily enough, I would say it's exactly the other way round.

 

[Madmac79]

to score a goal - guaranteed instant straight-from-kick off attack from the CPU, and often successful. When it's doubled with the flawed defending system that often makes you feel utterly powerless it can be super frustrating.

You precisely described my experience with this Pes at superstar and sometimes at top player too .