- Staff
- #10,561
- 16 July 2004
- LUFC O.K.
I agree, I think he has little influence in the direction of the game, Konami can just smell the Yen emitting from My Club.
PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
I agree, I think he has little influence in the direction of the game, Konami can just smell the Yen emitting from My Club.
Gunslinger
Premier League
- 5 September 2016
While Adam may be a bit of a nob, we shouldn't react to that by blaming him for the state of the game. He's just a marketing guy. PES hasn't been great since 2008, long before he started working for Konami.
I don't know gerd. He definitely acts like he does have influence and has been around for years, also promoted to EU brand manager and not just UK I think. Also in one of the podcasts or interviews he was in over the past 2-3 years I vaguely remember him saying something along the lines of him always communicating with Japan and telling them what to do. Also taking aboard fans ideas and implementing them (obviously not ours). So there must be that influence he has. And now he's over there. He can't just be a puppet can he? I don't blame him for everything but I do blame him for catering to a different crowd. He's openly said a few times we are a minority and that alone tells you they want the money coming in more than catering for the niche.
Imo, I think they forgot it's us the niche who embraced the game and carried it forward, in a time when many other football games existed and FIFA as usual selling gangbusters. It was the closest thing to real football yet simple to pick up and play, and goals had meaning. Even the ugliest of goals were satisfying because of the build up that involved specific players, tactics, formations, arrows, etc. You see all your hardwork translated into that goal/result.
I guess I'm biased because it hurts more that Adam at one point was one of us, the fans, the niche, before joining Konami. And after one of us has somehow made it in I thought great! Back to the glory days we go! Because he knows and lived it, unlike Jon Murphy who we thought was clueless. But now our guy has turned his back on us since and catered for the other crowd, you know, not the niche ones, because money. Well myclub and microtransactions to be exact.
So Yea, it hurts.
I do play other games and enjoyed fifa the last 2 years but like @B-Man said, PES/WE is in my veins (sounds cheesy I know). 2 decades of it is a lot. And that first decade especially was extremely addicting and to this day I can't get rid of it. I still wait for that "one game" that has the DNA of those addicting ones. Might never happen and have to just move on but with every year I have this tiny glimmer of hope. Can't help it.
Apologies for the long post.
There are some of us who do or have played football competitive at some stage and there are others who are strictly come console. Never done the parks and felt the venom of an arse crunching tackle. We expect different things from a game. I have come up against people who are masters with buttons as soon as you kick off it is rainbow flicks and that nonsense so i just disconnect. Online is savage and really gets me disillusioned with football at any level because of the people I play. I for some reason put Adam in the console footballer basket. Everything i hear smells of couch potato football player, i may be wrong but seems like an astroturf player with his mates. Not that it's wrong i just think that some of us who play expect real shit and forget it's a cpu game. In that lays the seperation betweent buying shitty coins and playing offline career. So for me he's always given lip service and it's been a bit of a pizza night boys club for him and his mates who've got lucky and landed a fucking great job. So i don't expect to see anytime soon an old school Anfield muddy pitch or Upton park, no snowy pitch, no Duncan Ferguson centre forward elbowing you in there ear and taking the keeper into the back of the net, but more dolphin heads or even better Zombie football. I may be wrong. But i would rather have Lami, Jimmy G-Force, SuperLeeds, Chris, or one of our guys out there than Adam.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
It was a long time ago when you could “smell the grass/muddy pitch and feel the rain” playing any football games,you know the feeling we had playing Pes 1/2/3.
Maybe it’s an age thing,people experience football different these day,supporters are becoming customers,spanking new stadiums are built,we can get craft beer and sushi delivered to our comfy chairs etc etc.
That revolution is in football games as well,sadly enough,everything must be without any flaws,nothing can stand out,it must be silky and shiny,and not offensive to anyone.
Maybe I’m to old for this shit,but I prefer my games not perfect,but made with passion and understanding for the beautiful game,and that doesn’t include rainbow flicks and collecting cards,and it doesn’t include shiny new stadiums either,I’d rather watch games in a shitty concrete bowl than in a all seater,same goes for gaming.
Rest in peace/Riposa in pace Davide
I'd be down for a game like that.
I can't remember if it was pes 3 or 4 where I played with Everton and had Duncan save me almost every game in div 2 with his superbly timed headers. His stats mattered, a lot.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I second and third that. Not to undermine any of the guys you mentioned (all of them are very valuable) but if I could handpick one I would definitely put Matt at the #1 spot. His eye for detail on things we all 'feel' but not many of us really can put the finger on, is shocking. Specially regarding players positioning, strategies and roles.
miguelfcp
Premier League
- 27 June 2009
Wish I could like this post more times than just one. Spot on, rockstrongo.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Thanks brother,I think we all can agree on wanting a game that gets us going again
miguelfcp
Premier League
- 27 June 2009
Sadly I think what you've described in your post is the exact opposite of modern-day values - not just in football game, but in many areas of life itself...- so I genuinely don't believe PES (or FIFA) will satisfy your needs as a football gamer - which coincide with mine and with many in the coummunity - anytime soon, or ever. Here I "tie up" your post with Lami's: "abandon all hope ye who enter here".
Imagine if you were a pre-teen boy playing your first football videogame which is PES2018 or any of the latest football games (I remember my first football videogame, was ISS Pro Evo for the PS1 and I was 8 or 9 years old). You'd have to grow up playing...this cr*p. That would be normal, acceptable for you. How lucky we were for we grew up playing simulations that were truly revolutionary, back in the days Konami brought football gaming out of the darkness and into the light, while some of those simulations are still played almost 10/15 years later and still regarded as competitive when compared to present-day games. That's why we've been criticising Konami so heavily in the last decade, it's because we were accostumed to greatness.
Now for the 10 year old kid who's playing PES2018, or the 16 year old who's been playing PES since 2015/2016, they haven't put their eyes on a realistic, ahead-of-its-time simulation EVER. So count on Konami for continuing to satisfy this generation of players in the following years, as they're literally growing up accostumed to myClub/UT, flashy dribbles and unrealistic simulations of football so they will never complain about the lack of realism in the game, considering...they NEVER saw a realistic football game in their lives.
Could you ask for something that you don't know what it is?
As for the generation of players Konami is now turning their backs on, I honestly don't know where the road will take us.
I don't see myself in this revolution of gaming, that's all I know.
So you were talking about hope Lami? I lost it, and it feels amazing man. Not taking bullshit anymore. Years of supporting them with my money and countless hours spent patching the game, giving the chance for the football fans of my country to play with our top league years before Konami introduced it into the game, all of this only to see them turning their backs on me. I showed them my middle finger. It's up for them to try and win me back to the game, if they don't, I'll be on my way doing what I've always done: coming up with new ideas on how to make a truly great football game, applying those ideas as best as I can, and then share my work with like-minded-people for us to have a blast of an experience. Rinse and repeat forever.
And unlike you Lami, I won't apologize for the long post - and neither should you, because your post was spot on. "People will read again!"
*aLe to the rescue, now that post has one more 'like' (as I always share rockstrongo's views almost completely).
I also would love a solid game where the ones always performing skill moves and rainbow flicks would "perish" (well, not literally of course... I'd be OK with none of them being able to win a match anymore), where you didn't have to gamble to build your 'ultimate' team (pun totally intended), where single player experience were properly valued.
Unfortunately now the focus has shifted from "good, solid gameplay for entertaining and realistic offline matches" to "let's make sure people can have an online end-to-end experience keeping them always on the edges of their seats otherwise they won't buy the game anymore".
I definitely AM a huge lover of fast-paced arcade football, don't get me wrong, but that's why I play Virtua Striker 3 (and The Next Glory from time to time, for the ones old enough to remember it) when I want that kind of experience. From PES (and from FIFA after all) I'd expect something different and so do you I guess... But maybe it's us who are wrong.
This is why sliders would help, at lease the offline players. If they are never going back down the stat route then give the user some form of ability to prevent the end to end issue offline
gerd
Retired Footballer
I have played both football (average level) and futsal (high level) and although PES isn't what it used to be, IMO when playing you have to think like a football player. The other game (despite being better as a finished package and being much more customer friendly) never had that...
- Staff
- #10,575
Personally I just don't think that's the case any more Gerd - even the AI has started doing the same things no matter the team (chipped through-balls like a kid who knows an exploit). For me, the "thought" element (the thing that made me passionate about PES) is being diluted from both games.
I'd also say, if you truly think you have to "think like a footballer", try playing online and tell me anyone you come up against is playing like a footballer - or that thinking like a footballer would help you beat them. No chance. Everyone plays the same way, because everyone knows the easiest way to win.
When I was lucky enough to fly out to EA in Canada - it seems like it happened in another lifetime now, ten years ago - I spoke to Simon Humber, who was a member of these forums and who sought me out to say hello (he has since passed away). He wanted to know why I didn't play online and when I told him, he said that his goal was to create a football game you could play (online) where the winner was the player with the better footballing brain, not the player who knew how to play computer games and/or exploit the system. I was so excited by that.
But I think the chances of that ever happening are long-gone now. Those kinds of aspirations - games that take time to learn, that require real-world knowledge, that reward a plan and a hard-fought win with the feeling of immense satisfaction - have been replaced by convenience, by FUT/myClub's brand of "buy the best players to win", and by super-fast, super-fun eSports crap. (Well, it's crap to me, and a lot of us - but we're not their market any more, so I think I'm officially just too old, now.)
I can't imagine ever playing a football game again and needing to adopt different play-styles due to the different strengths of the team in order to win.
I've said it before but I'd sell a kidney to fund an indie project that had those goals.
I urge people to give Online divisions a try. If you go with manual passing and set the matchmaking to "similar settings" you will get a pretty good online experience. It's not perfect but I RARELY feel cheated, the high through balls or whatever that might be a exploit with PA 1 (and above) isn't there. Of course you can still use it but it's much more depending on you, the user, if it will be a good through ball etc. Also; about 75% of people playing like this also use manual shooting and advanced through balls and for most of the time use lesser teams.
And yes, you will have to sacrifice some of the players stats in passing but are they really apparent when using PA1 anyway? Nope.
And yes, there are not that many playing like this so sometimes you will have a hard time finding people to play but if you are like me (having job and family) there isn't that hard to get matches in the evening or on the weekends.
Again, before someone bash me (
; the game isn't perfect, there are still a number of things that will annoy you but the game is at least enjoyable in a way that I haven't felt since the days gathering some friends IRL and kill them with inch- perfect passes from Riquelme still playing for Villarreal...
And yes, you will have to sacrifice some of the players stats in passing but are they really apparent when using PA1 anyway? Nope.
And yes, there are not that many playing like this so sometimes you will have a hard time finding people to play but if you are like me (having job and family) there isn't that hard to get matches in the evening or on the weekends.
Again, before someone bash me (
; the game isn't perfect, there are still a number of things that will annoy you but the game is at least enjoyable in a way that I haven't felt since the days gathering some friends IRL and kill them with inch- perfect passes from Riquelme still playing for Villarreal...
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manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
We are buying too much of the subtle marketing from both EA/Konami. Some years ago, when fut was relatively new, EA promoted it on the main menu with words like "try out fifa's most popular mode". There was no way in hell that was true back then. I didn't even know what it was all about. They'd love it if everyone believes that this is the best mode where all the cool kids hang around. Picking up your favourite team and trying to replicate playing in your favourite league against AI controlled teams will not go away. One thing tries to replicate what what people see following the real sport the other is a completely different game.
And it will certainly not be replaced by a mode made popular on youtube by people screaming while opening packs (not by playing football). And it has nothing to do with hardcore/casual. Getting addicted to buying random packs and levelling up my Ronaldo is not the future of football games because it has nothing to do with football. How both games get raving reviews each year and people ready to defend them is beyond me. But no matter, it will just take more time to get a decent game...
I'm in complete agreement with what Chris wrote, but I don't feel at all like we're just stubborn dinosaurs who will go extinct, refusing to embrace the 'future'
And it will certainly not be replaced by a mode made popular on youtube by people screaming while opening packs (not by playing football). And it has nothing to do with hardcore/casual. Getting addicted to buying random packs and levelling up my Ronaldo is not the future of football games because it has nothing to do with football. How both games get raving reviews each year and people ready to defend them is beyond me. But no matter, it will just take more time to get a decent game...
I'm in complete agreement with what Chris wrote, but I don't feel at all like we're just stubborn dinosaurs who will go extinct, refusing to embrace the 'future'
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It's probably been said already but both EA and Konami are two publishers well-known for their use of micro-transactions. To do that they have to put more focus into online play and as such will always cater to the masses - that's where the profit is.
We can hope for the best but I don't see either company focusing on the offline experience anytime soon. It's not in their interests. Konami are also generally an absolute joke in the industry right now following the way they've handled the Metal Gear Solid IP (the Kojima disaster).
I obviously feel bad for you guys but we'll always have the memories :3
We can hope for the best but I don't see either company focusing on the offline experience anytime soon. It's not in their interests. Konami are also generally an absolute joke in the industry right now following the way they've handled the Metal Gear Solid IP (the Kojima disaster).
I obviously feel bad for you guys but we'll always have the memories :3
banbenbin
League 1
- 25 September 2013
What's worse is that those card games were you build your own team to play online would be great if the game wasn't so exploitable. It would be so much fun to build our own teams every year. The idea is fine, but the gameplay lets it down, along with having to buy yourself to being good. But the idea of building fantasy teams, and trying to make them work would be so much fun. One year I would build an Atletico type team, looking to limit shots and finding the right time to counter into space. Another year you might want to build a team based on positional play like a Pep team. So you would be out there trying to get the right players for your team.
How do I join your team or club?I urge people to give Online divisions a try. If go with manual passing and set the matchmaking to "similar settings" you will get a pretty good online experience. It's not perfect but I RARELY feel cheated, the high through balls or whatever that might be a exploit with PA 1 (and above) isn't there. Of course you can still use it but it's much more depending on you, the user, if it will be a good through ball etc. Also; about 75% of people playing like this also use manual shooting and advanced through balls and for most of the time use lesser teams.
And yes, you will have to sacrifice some of the players stats in passing but are they really apparent when using PA1 anyway? Nope.
And yes, there are not that many playing like this so sometimes you will have a hard time finding people to play but if you are like me (having job and family) there isn't that hard to get matches in the evening or on the weekends.
Again, before someone bash me (
No it's not like that, it's still 1v1.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Very good post.
I agree with what you say about the AI (i.e. the CPU team), every team plays the same style. That really is not good enough.
About online: i have played one online match. I got beaten 8-0 in a totally unfair way and never played it again (i don't mind getting thrashed, but not because of lag), and to be honest, i think online play brings the worst in human being out, unless you can play as a team (11 versus 11 would be fantastic).
But playing offline imo you still have to think as a football player in PES, even in the best FIFA i never had that feeling (and i have absolutely nothing against EA, my favourite game of alltime is SSX by them, that is a development team who really listens to it's fans, fantastic!).
I know what your saying, I have been through the same when playing online with PA1. But give manual passing a go, it's not perfect but it's fair and square anyway.
guru83
League 1
- 8 August 2017
Anyone who pirates video games needs to have a word with themselves. It's not cool man.
Piracy is wrong in all forms.
I do however agree about not giving Konami your money, I am boycotting all Conami products from now on.
Oh sorry. I thought you were the one promoting 11v11 manual.
Well, allow me to skip the controversial part (as discussing it here wouldn't be wise), but also let me say that I think the same.
The reason is the one we said before: it definitely looks like they don't care anymore about the single player side of the game.
PES 2018 is most likely the best looking football game ever, and it also plays great against other people... But it's not enough for me, a single player fanatic. And if PES 2019 isn't a step forward in the direction I hope, I doubt I'll be willing to buy it when it gets released.
I feel that PES 2017 was superior in the single player aspect, and (please don't shoot me) PES 2015 is still the game I play the most despite its flaws and despite it being one of the least popular around here.
Yeah, some of its animations look stiff, some moves are a little clunky to execute (countless times I've been dispossessed while my player was putting himself in the right position to perform a pass) and sometimes players' reactions are odd (as in "I see the ball and I could easily reach it by sticking out a foot but hey, the pass is not aimed at me so it's none of my business... I'll let it roll into an opponent's path instead") but it's still the PES game I like the most.
robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
PES2015 was ok but the AI was very limited, that was the game where we had the AI passing it around the back behind the half-way line even if they were 1 or 2 down with ten minutes to play. I do agree that PES2017 was the best single player experience in a long time, it's such a shame that many aspects of 2018 went backwards instead of making tweaks here and there to improve individuality, errors and AI.
oh well
Every online experience in sports games has been the same. Starts out with excitement at the prospect of something new, but I quickly realize that people simply look to use as many exploits as possible as the win is more important that the experience. So I stopped caring about online.
So I have to rely on whoever develops whichever game I'm playing to make an AI that is at least tolerable. And with PES being rushed one touch passes and pinpoint crosses/long balls all match every match, I get bored of it very quickly.
I didn't really enjoy 2017. Especially the frequency and length of injuries in BAL. That's interesting what you said about 2015. Before 2017, the last PES I played was 2009 so I've always been curious how the game, and specifically how the AI, played.
I somehow agree with him in saying that in PES 2015 the CPU tries playing a little bit too much on the 'safe side', especially at Superstar level.
The passes at the back when you would expect them to push on the throttle are an example (I've never seen them do so when losing though, maybe I should have a closer look at it), but also the fact that different teams build up in different ways but when playing at Superstar almost every of them will try and score with a low controlled shot on the far post (as it looks like it's almost impossible for keepers to catch, being on the 'safe side' again here and always trying the most effective way to score).
That's why I usually play at Top Player difficulty instead, it looks like the CPU dares more there (and indeed they more often make mistakes during the buildup, in some matches I've seen the CPU end with a completed passes ratio in the low 70s).
We're just a little off topic though.
