adam may of succeeded hyping the game but he has lost my complete trust for future pes in regards to sim aspects of the game, im convinced now kei mesuda will always have an arcade element for pes, backheels for example and he wont allow sim levels of error in passing and shooting, another thing that annoyed me with this latest patch is they made manual even easier, buy doing that have made the other passing assistance levels pointless. people will have to expect this and accept every year or otherwise will be getting frustrated and going in circles every year come release. Cos the only way Kei mesuda will win the podcasters back is if he fixes those areas i mentioned above as well as a few other areas, highly unlikely.
PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
There are two sides to this coin, promotion and hype is one, but a level of honesty to gain respect of the masses is another. Understanding the flaws, and respecting the clear cut criticisms whilst engaging fans ideas to rectify with feedback to the programmers is what his role should be all about.
Nothing more, nothing less.
That way he garners true respect from the PES religious followers and pushes the franchise we all love to greater heights.
Nothing more, nothing less.
That way he garners true respect from the PES religious followers and pushes the franchise we all love to greater heights.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I think I'd much rather have someone like Adam than not having anyone at all, like EA does.
There's just no feedback. You can Tweet EA all day long and it's like nobody's there. They don't take suggestions, they don't take criticism, they don't take feedback. Nothing.
At least you know Adam is there and he reads what you have to say.
I agree though, he's way too sensitive and he's too quick to tell people "please unfollow me" or "this is not my job, I do it because I want to" which is actually kind of ironic because if you're doing it because you "want to" then you can't expect people to tell you only good stuff, only what you want to hear. It's a whole package. And let's face it, it's obvious that people will use social media to complain or throw ideas more than to tell you how much they love you and your product. Unfortunately, that's the way it works. Not just for PES, but for everything in general.
But there are other times, when he is in the mood, in which he actually tries to take some notes about people's feelings and ideas on the game.
There's just no feedback. You can Tweet EA all day long and it's like nobody's there. They don't take suggestions, they don't take criticism, they don't take feedback. Nothing.
At least you know Adam is there and he reads what you have to say.
I agree though, he's way too sensitive and he's too quick to tell people "please unfollow me" or "this is not my job, I do it because I want to" which is actually kind of ironic because if you're doing it because you "want to" then you can't expect people to tell you only good stuff, only what you want to hear. It's a whole package. And let's face it, it's obvious that people will use social media to complain or throw ideas more than to tell you how much they love you and your product. Unfortunately, that's the way it works. Not just for PES, but for everything in general.
But there are other times, when he is in the mood, in which he actually tries to take some notes about people's feelings and ideas on the game.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Anyone on Xbox or otherwise able to give me a hand with kit creation for the unlicensed teams? I have a Eurogamer article that lists which teams have fake names with the correct names. I have looked up Wikipedia for a couple of the EPL teams and done a quick "proper kit" via edit mode but is there a resource somewhere that has the formula for the colours or a list of teams?
gerd
Retired Footballer
Lots of good posts on this thread, lately.
It's Adam's job to hype PES, you can't blame him for that.
But sometimes he's not very good at it. You PES year x and the community says that (for example) there are not enough fouls. Adam kind of denies this. Then, a couple of months before PESX+1 will get in the shops. He suddenly says that Konami has adressed the problem that PESX had: not enough fouls. That is outraging.
But to be fair to Adam: he does listen to the community.
The problem is, what does the community wants? Take this thread. 99% of the people will tell yiu that there are not enough fouls in PES2018. But besides that? Some people love the game, some hate it, some say there are too much flaws but the the fundamentals for a good game are there, others will say that Konami need to start from scratch because PES2018 is not a good base to develop the game... I've often written this, imo sometimes Konami listen too much to the community.
It's Adam's job to hype PES, you can't blame him for that.
But sometimes he's not very good at it. You PES year x and the community says that (for example) there are not enough fouls. Adam kind of denies this. Then, a couple of months before PESX+1 will get in the shops. He suddenly says that Konami has adressed the problem that PESX had: not enough fouls. That is outraging.
But to be fair to Adam: he does listen to the community.
The problem is, what does the community wants? Take this thread. 99% of the people will tell yiu that there are not enough fouls in PES2018. But besides that? Some people love the game, some hate it, some say there are too much flaws but the the fundamentals for a good game are there, others will say that Konami need to start from scratch because PES2018 is not a good base to develop the game... I've often written this, imo sometimes Konami listen too much to the community.
Yegi77
Premier League
- 15 October 2017
We wont fuc...g hanball rule in simulation
rogers150862
League 2
Requesting in such a polite way is a sure way of getting it done...............think about it
- Staff
- #9,878
I'm not his boss, I don't have a right to know anything and he's always busy now (especially now that he's moving to Tokyo) - if I chased it up with him, I imagine his response would be along those lines.
What he said was that he'd talk to the devs and basically ask them why - not to answer me or the community, but so that he could understand the problem, possibly because there could be a "good reason" for it.
But he didn't agree with what I said - and documented - about the constant lofted through-balls from the AI (he said something like "we must have different play styles" because he'd never seen it).
But then, he's not the only person to say that, and that's fair enough. I like Adam a lot - I think the game has more potential to move forward with him in a role with more responsibilities than it does with him in a marketing role.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
..and that's exactly why, even if a lot of people is horrified at the only idea, we need an higher customization of the gameplay. Because we all have our vision of what a soccer game should be, and it seems they all differ. I don't think they'll come out with a game capable of make everybody relatively happy just by not listening to feedbacks.. they didn't listen to feedbacks for a long time in the past and we had even worst results than now.
We need a powerful, solid and flessible base engine for a football game, and modders to have an easier life. Just that.
- Staff
- #9,880
Someone suggested a global attributes editor instead of sliders. If the no-sliders guys would be comfortable with that, I'd support that (actually, it's probably a better idea, because you'd be able to change more about the gameplay in theory - except for e.g. pass speed).
That relies on attributes being the building blocks of player individuality though, and I'm not sure it is. Again, in the video review, I set all Man City players to the lowest attributes and genuinely felt no difference playing against them than before.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Chris, as you can already see by this year example, a global editor won't be nearly enough. We had global editors for years and years on pc, there is only this much they can do anyway. For what I have in mind with "higher customization", we need the possibility to influence stuff like ball and player heaviness (and so physicality in the game), referee incidence, damn even just being able to edit tactics in a way more powerful fashion than now would make an incredible big difference (where, again, for all the options there are in the tactics, we can't get ride of through ball teams, tiki takas and cpu playing more or less all the same, while in my dreams by editing tactics you should be able to recreate as a whole an aggressive Premier League, a more closed Serie A, a more ball possession Liga.. etc.. This should already be Konami's work at this point, but I'd gladly have the tool to do it myself if they let me).
Why somebody would be rationally uncomfortable with this degree of editing things is still something I can't understand since you can theoretically ignore all of this and play the vanilla game, however I'm pretty sure that whatever Konami will do next year, there still will be a lot of unsatisfied people, no matter the route they'll take.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Couldn't agree more with the call for customisation.
I think that was me Chris...
Completly agree with @Matt10.
But going back to the ‘slider’ talk, maybe adding a Global Stat Editor would be good. Provided they make stats make more of a difference like in the past.
Similar to how some of us used to use pesfan editor.
But the stats would have to make a bigger difference like in the past. I was able to get a few more years out of PES5 because of the suggestions from some on this site on what to increase / decrease.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
Kei Masuda is the guy who gave us Pes 2014, the most simulative Pes ever, even if it was largely incomplete and buggy at release. Definitely not an arcade guy.
- Staff
- #9,885
That's how I feel too. I think the main argument is it will "make the devs lazy" but I asked if there's any evidence of that and didn't get an answer. You could say "FIFA's rubbish, that's evidence" - but are sliders why it's rubbish, or is it just rubbish?
But, I do think the way ball physics etc. work in PES means it just isn't compatible with sliders. I'm convinced that the calculations that the game makes are totally different from other games with sliders.
Pass error, for example - the AI's passes are always on target, it's just that your player will intercept it if either A) it's a poor choice of pass target, or B) your defending player has a better (set of) interception attributes. So you just can't apply a "pass error" slider - all it would do is boost the defending players' interception abilities. The pass aim would be the same.
That allows some elements of football to really shine in comparison to FIFA, but you lose errors and unpredictability. It's not better, it's not worse, it's just a different way of doing things (and I can understand why that's a good thing).
All of which means sliders can't just be dropped on top of the code - I believe it would require pretty much a total re-write of the game, where the ball becomes a much more separate entity than it is now.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I don't think you have to be his boss in order to politely check up on something you two talked in the past. He can either ignore you, excuse himself or maybe just... tell you.
I'd much rather have Sliders than a Global Editor.
For a Global Editor to work, as many people said before me, Stats need to play a bigger role, and there should be new stats introduced. I think Sliders are a far easier option to implement without having to go back to the blackboard.
But if we can't have Sliders then I support the Global Editor idea.
Anything that will allow us to customize as much as we can. From graphics to gameplay, to little details. I want tons of options.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
OH! And it was just yesterday night that I had 3 AMAZING consecutive matches in Master League that made me go to bed in love with PES and longing to get home tonight and play a few more. Everything felt so random, so free. Loved it.
I advice you guys to start a ML from 0 if you haven't done so already after the lastest patch was applied.
I had been playing the same ML since the game came out and yeah I could tell there were a few differences after the lastest patch. But only when I started this new one from scratch I felt so refreshed and like more changes had made an impact.
So it's only fair to say that even if I want Sliders or a Global Editor or hundreds of options to customize as much as I can in the game, I still strongly believe PES 2018 is the best football game ever made overall. One thing doesn't take away the other one.
I advice you guys to start a ML from 0 if you haven't done so already after the lastest patch was applied.
I had been playing the same ML since the game came out and yeah I could tell there were a few differences after the lastest patch. But only when I started this new one from scratch I felt so refreshed and like more changes had made an impact.
So it's only fair to say that even if I want Sliders or a Global Editor or hundreds of options to customize as much as I can in the game, I still strongly believe PES 2018 is the best football game ever made overall. One thing doesn't take away the other one.
if thats the case then why is he allowing these backheel passes and dumbing down the passing and shooting, its his responsibility of the direction of the game, the only aspect i feel is sim atm are the tactics, on field dont feel any sim at all to be honest
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
Oh forgot to mention that: Parham's gameplay on Professional difficulty and default (0) speed, mate.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
I'm not really an expert on the field so I don't have any real idea whatever sliders are possible or not at the actual state of things.. however, leaving this topic aside for a moment, if we want to head towards a simulation, or just a better game all along, the ball NEEDS to become a much more separate entity than is it right now at least imho. Errors and unpredictability are more or less what makes a soccer game random and varied, so worth to be played all the years. At least for me it always has been like that, I've devoured chapters in which there was a lot of randomness and different situations (even objectively, all along bad ones like Pes 2009) and left aside the ones more on "binaries".But maybe it's just my experience.
I'm curious, by the way.. in what situations you think the game wouldn't benefit more from a "looser" ball?
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
I've still to try Parham's patch, on which I'm hearing a lot of good stuff (at the moment I'm having LOADS of fun just playing Master with Kilay's OF, top player and new Konami's patch.. seriously, go play Master LEague guys, exhibition and training mode aren't significant compared to this), but customization, patch, OF and mods are saving my virtual soccer season by the way, for both games. Another prove, at least to me, that the more the game is open to being modified, the better it is.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
So tell me, why Seabass allowed Pes 2008 to be the worst Pes game ever? Many times errors and flaws of the games come from different situations. Maybe it's KONAMI managers that force developers to make a more accessible game, to make it more easy to play for the Myclub users, maybe it's the lack of resources and developer team is so small they can't properly balance the many systems the game now has.
The problem with Pes originates from KONAMI managers and KONAMI's change of attitude, their shift from console to mobile.
marthchyld
Otoki McHyld
- 3 March 2011
Chuny and Madmac79, I'm afraid this is not PC thread
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Chuny and Madmac79, I'm afraid this is not PC thread
Sorry man. I got carried away. But nonetheless, this is another reason why I wish you guys playing on console could have the same level of customization pc users have.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I have always had this sort of naive thought in the back of my mind that if you want to create the ultimate football game you need people who actually play football and are good at it, from different parts of the world. Not professionals, of course. They could even be developers who play(ed) football as a hobby with friends or local tournaments.
But they should consider hiring people from Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, Spain, Italy. People who breathe football. People that just by playing a couple of matches will be able to tell you "the positioning here is wrong" or "that felt weird".
Sometimes developers just look at the game from the developing POV. It would be extremely helpful if they played football themselves (not just while working on the game).
But they should consider hiring people from Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, Spain, Italy. People who breathe football. People that just by playing a couple of matches will be able to tell you "the positioning here is wrong" or "that felt weird".
Sometimes developers just look at the game from the developing POV. It would be extremely helpful if they played football themselves (not just while working on the game).
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
Chuny and Madmac79, I'm afraid this is not PC thread
True. I apologize.
Can't see why both Threads aren't merged now that both platforms are exactly the same though (next gen and all that stuff).
Gunslinger
Premier League
- 5 September 2016
December arrives and the annual bashing of Adam begins by bored and disgruntled PES fans. Check.
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The development team struggled with the transition from ps2 to Ps3 which made 2008 the worst game in the series unfortunately, if the blame is on konamis managers than what role is kei musadas, I wouldv assumed it’s his responsibility for what is and isn’t allowed in the game, but as you said maybe kei wants sim elements in the game but the upper hierarchy won’t allow, but then let me ask you this, why is adam going to Japan to work more closer with the dev team if in the end the bosses won’t allow sim elements in the game, doesn’t make any sense.
marthchyld
Otoki McHyld
- 3 March 2011
It's OK. I actually wasn't annoyed at all.(as I'm also a PC user like you.
Well, because mods are & would be unavailable for console gamers not only at the moment but also in the future.
So talking about mods could be off-topic to console users.