PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Matt10]

I edited a couple of players on a team to have 40/99 speed/explosiveness etc, went to training mode and ran the length of the pitch like the video posted here double tapping R1, and then did a little test with super cancel too... Seems that in these conditions all players are actually still 99% identical despite their attributes. I overlaid the videos and they were pace for pace the whole way. Same with the super cancel one (where I thought the difference would be more clear).

Maybe the game uses these attributes differently somehow?... Like they only take effect in comparison to opponent players rather than just being a flat speed/acceleration for that individual player. Doesn't seem to make much sense but when I've played as Liverpool for example, when I control Clyne and super cancel, he seems to catch up to opponents and cover the ground much faster than Lovren.

Always a difficult comparison between training and match. I think the code changes for Exhibition, League, Master League as well? Maybe best testing would be best in a league/competition environment.

I can confirm it. It's the strangest way they have done stats. And sometimes I feel like they work but other times, I get outpaced by the slowest players. I will do some more in-depth test with difficulty and in a match settings rather than training because the only stats that works in training is the ball control/agility.

Assuming PES doesn't have a threshold/disparity scale (EA's concept for their NFL/NCAA games), it must mean it's controlled by something else like game speed + difficulty maybe? Take warping animations for example. I see less of it on -1 speed compared to 0. Remember how we had tested Fatigue and Speed at 0 game speed? What if instead you raise the stats but play it on a -1 or -2 speed? The goal to accomplish here would be at determining when the actual animations take place and if players are in-sync with what's happening on the pitch.

For example, look here at 0 speed, my controlled players have all 40 attributes/abilities, and playing CPU on superstar, able to sprint through the midfield:

 

[majuh]

Damn it! Stop with this nonsense already! Stats work in context. I´ve edited a team with minimum stats on critical areas and played against a top team, and I couldn´t make a pass, couldn´t outrun anyone and couldn´t make a shot on target. Then, I edited the other way around, maximum stats for the same critical areas, and played against the same team. I didn´t even finished the game, because at 30 mins, I was winning 3-0 and every single attack resulted in a shot at goal.

I didn´t recorded it, and I won´t. It was for my curiosity and I liked what I saw. Testing player speeds out of the context may seem weird, but doesn´t show s#$t. The game is designed to be balanced. The thing is, it´s not that realistic, but frankly, these days, while some better programming solution doesn´t come up, I rather have a balanced and unpredictable game, than play a totaly predictable one, where I know that if I have Ronaldo, no one is going to catch me anymore.

That's merely the game scripting for / against you because your overall stats are higher / lower.

 

[Madmac79]

I think stats are contextual, as said some posts above. For example some minutes ago I clearly outrunned a Spal defender with Cuadrado, in a shoulder against shoulder duel, I literally burned him out and reached the ball first, in a way that trust me, unequivocally made me feel how faster the guy was compared to the defender (now I regret not saving it tbh).

Yet in some other occasions it doesn't feel like that at all. As I said in another post, I think it's because team spirit, cards and even game speed as noted by Matt before, probably interfere with stats and their momentum way more than the past.

 

[vxcmplx]

Megging is love, megging is life

 

[Gunslinger]

I think the "like" feature for posts doesn't help matters. Rather than posts standing up on their own merit you get cliques where each side is just "liking" any post that seems to support their side, rather than trying to have any meaningful input in a discussion.

Some users like shez will just "like" any post being slightly negative about the game and contribute nothing of value.

Come on dude, really.

 

[rojofa]

Come on dude, really.

It has merit in the editing section for saying thanks without needing to post, but in discussion threads it mostly ends up being used for cliques to circlejerk each other. Happens on pretty much any forum I've been on with the feature.

 

[romagnoli]

I kind of agree - liking posts in a forum can just become about people nailing their colours to the mast, and just waving their fists at each other, as if the way that debate works is that most fists wins.

 

[Ameppe]

For example, look here at 0 speed, my controlled players have all 40 attributes/abilities, and playing CPU on superstar, able to sprint through the midfield:

That is really on Superstar against CPU? I can assure you that playing Master League on Superstar against CPU they are never that stupid. That to me seems like Professional at most.

I play at 0 speed. CPU defense has positional issues, it's too rigid etc, but it's not that bad.

I think the question we should ask is: does playing as Mertens or controlling him compared to Dzeko (eg) feels different? I think it's extremely noticeable, not just the speed, but also the acceleration, the weight of the player when you turn, the little flick you can do with Mertens that are impossible to do with Dzeko, the much more physical strenght by Dzeko and that mighty headers. Individuality is still there and it's very prominent.

Koulibaly in defence is a beast, and you can tell that because his physical strenght and ability to gain ball control compared to other Napoli defenders is so noticeable it would be foolish to say individuality is not there. Many of the specific traits of players are also special abilities, not anymore in stats but still very important. Special abilities also distinguish one player from the other.

 

[geeeeee]

I think the "like" feature for posts doesn't help matters. Rather than posts standing up on their own merit you get cliques where each side is just "liking" any post that seems to support their side, rather than trying to have any meaningful input in a discussion.

Some users like shez will just "like" any post being slightly negative about the game and contribute nothing of value.

I must be guilty of this too.

I’ve mentioned in the past a few times how, in my opinion, stats don’t make as much difference as they used to. Maybe for the Messi’s etc... it does but not for the average players. The Player Cards seem to be the big factor now.

I don’t really see why i should keep bringing it up as i will just sound like a ‘boring long playing record’. So now i mostly just read the posts and put a few ‘likes’ in when i agree with something.

 

[rojofa]

I must be guilty of this too.

I’ve mentioned in the past a few times how, in my opinion, stats don’t make as much difference as they used to. Maybe for the Messi’s etc... it does but not for the average players. The Player Cards seem to be the big factor now.

I don’t really see why i should keep bringing it up as i will just sound like a ‘boring long playing record’. So now i mostly just read the posts and put a few ‘likes’ in when i agree with something.

I think the cards/styles/traits are certainly much more impactful than the attributes.

You could have someone with 40 for all passing attributes, but if they had "Weighted Pass", "One-touch Pass", "Low lofted pass", "Pinpoint crossing" etc then they will be more effective than someone with 99 in passing attributes but none of those traits.

Of course that doesn't usually happen because there's a correlation between attributes and what traits they are given, but it's not always the case, as an example;

http://www.pesmaster.com/miguel-veloso/pes-2018/player/31019/
http://www.pesmaster.com/g-lorenzetti/pes-2018/player/45665/

Veloso has better passing stats (+11 low pass, +13 lofted pass), but in-game I'm sure Lorenzetti would perform better passes and be more effective in the final third because of the traits he has.

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

People that say the transfer market is useless, they don’t notice a difference, either they are used to playing fifa or they don’t understand pes.
For starters don’t look at names, pes isn’t about names.
Priority number one is finding a player that has most or all tactical links to your style of play, very very important and overlooked.
Priority number 2 is the players style of play box to box, anchor, adv striker etc
Priority number 3 is player skills, one touch, acrobatic finishing etc,
Stats are last.
Cos there are players with very average stats but get a tick in all the other areas and play really well, cos they mould into the picture on how you want to play.
This years game is about players creating space and runs which is why the tactical links are number one, for example if u have your tactics to counter down the middle, but u have one player who is also counter but plays wide, it ruins the momentum your trying to create leaving gaps in the park and no one to pass too, same goes for flexible or maintain position if you have a mixture of that your team can become a mess and ruin your flow, this part Konami are trying to do is fkn amazing.

 

[DerleiPT]

Always a difficult comparison between training and match. I think the code changes for Exhibition, League, Master League as well? Maybe best testing would be best in a league/competition environment.



Assuming PES doesn't have a threshold/disparity scale (EA's concept for their NFL/NCAA games), it must mean it's controlled by something else like game speed + difficulty maybe? Take warping animations for example. I see less of it on -1 speed compared to 0. Remember how we had tested Fatigue and Speed at 0 game speed? What if instead you raise the stats but play it on a -1 or -2 speed? The goal to accomplish here would be at determining when the actual animations take place and if players are in-sync with what's happening on the pitch.

For example, look here at 0 speed, my controlled players have all 40 attributes/abilities, and playing CPU on superstar, able to sprint through the midfield:

trust me , all players got the same speed , i tested in with my friend 1 vs 1 , friendly match. Same result as training mode. Shooting , headers and passing is the same story . I think more and more people noticed this and they wondering what is going on. Its the way Konami wanted to balance difference betwwen attack and DEF

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

Video showing fastest vs slowest players in WE9 with over three seconds difference in running the pitch with the ball

Is this as evident in PES 18?

yes, and in order for it to have worked they needed smart AI programming to read passes and good possession and aware keepers. Unlike 2018.

 

[gerd]

There are countless examples from the biggest stars to the least known players. I am not entertaining that BS of no individuality.

I said it here months ago but that seems to be the big push from the fifa camp that resides here. It's laughable tbh

Regarding the shit show that was the sliders discussion if you want to call it that. This is the PES 2018 discussion thread. Sliders dont even exist in this game. Why it's been thrown out here time and time again is beyond me. Why not start a chat in sliders in a separate thread?

And guys please don't be subtle with me. I stand by what I say. Don't say some people or some person. Call it as it is.

It's only a game..don't take it all so bloody serious...and 'the FIFA camp', sounds a bit like the flat earth society...

 

[Ameppe]

trust me , all players got the same speed , i tested in with my friend 1 vs 1 , friendly match. Same result as training mode. Shooting , headers and passing is the same story . I think more and more people noticed this and they wondering what is going on. Its the way Konami wanted to balance difference betwwen attack and DEF

I prefer to trust my experience and i don't know if Exhibition has some kind of different gameplay but in Master i can feel players don't have the same speed. Passing is more debatable, but even then there are some differences between players. Shooting i can surely say stats are better represented in Pes 2018 compared to Pes 2017 where every shot was a rocket straight to the goal.

 

[Chris Davies]

I do think stats make a difference, but only in certain circumstances are they "strict" (and there's an argument to be made for that being a realistic way of doing things).

As an example (I'm not saying this is how it works), the "finishing" stat only restricting the player's ability if he's under pressure from a defender.

That also makes testing this stuff out more complicated than just being able to e.g. take control of two teams and blast shots at a goal for ten minutes.

 

[Chuny]

I wonder what will be Adam's new job in Tokio. I mean, they aren't just moving him there because they want to see his face more often. Surely that comes with a new titles and different responsibilities. I really would like to get more details about that.

Will he be making more important decisions about the direction of the game? Is he he still going to be a merely RRPP guy or the "familiar face" for PES?.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

trust me , all players got the same speed , i tested in with my friend 1 vs 1 , friendly match. Same result as training mode. Shooting , headers and passing is the same story . I think more and more people noticed this and they wondering what is going on. Its the way Konami wanted to balance difference betwwen attack and DEF

What a load of absolute rubbish. Same old, same old from you. Mr Anti-PES, always have been, always will be.

I'm not even going to waste my time posting videos, it would be a waste of my time and a pointless exercise.

 

[martyl2]

With regards to speed/shooting/passing etc I can't break past, beat defenders and have clinical finishing with say Chris Smalling up front in comparison to Sergio Aguero so obviously stats have some bearing.

 

[marthchyld]

Konami would say, "No thanks, fanatics, we don't need your wrong loves. Please tell us the truth so that we could improve the game."

 

[bluewomble88]

Can't imagine me being sucked back in to PES until there is a tangible shift in focus away from 18 and towards the magic of the older games. Bhatti also leaves a sour taste with his attitude.

I want PES back to former greatness.

 

[martyl2]

It's strange how we can get diametrically opposed views regarding this years iteration with those who love it and those who hate it. I fall in the middle where I like the game, appreciate it for what it is and don't see the flaws as somewhat game breaking as those that though.

However after playing PES 6 for an hour and approximately 15 fouls later lol I can tell you that I have had more fun and memorable moments on that than I have had since PES 18's release. Simplistic yes, but underneath it all, fun. And that is what PES's of late have lost, underlying fun, especially evident in scoring goals which now feels somewhat lifeless is comparison.

I suppose that's where the current frustration and debate comes from. Being a PES fan since the ISS days we were all used to year on year improvements and longetivity in each iteration whereas recently everything gets stale within months. I doubt it will ever get back to these type of days i feel.

 

[Chris Davies]

I suppose that's where the current frustration and debate comes from. Being a PES fan since the ISS days we were all used to year on year improvements and longetivity in each iteration whereas recently everything gets stale within months.

It'd be really easy (and probably true) to say a lot of our love for those older games is based on the age we were and the time we lived in, that we're bathing in nostalgia.

But I feel like games were a little bit more of an artform back then (as in, more freedom, less pressure from higher-ups, with real aims as opposed to making money). To me it's switched to "get them hooked, make it action-packed, fast, jam microtransactions in there". (Just my opinion, I know some love the game.)

I feel like a bit of an old man / conspiracy theorist in feeling that way, but for me, football games are a little different from other games and they present a better opportunity to do the above (as do games like Battlefront II).

So unfortunately, I really do feel like we've reached this point:

I doubt it will ever get back to these type of days.

 

[Chuny]

That's for sure.
I have accepted it a long time ago.

Don't you see? Everything's like that in the times we live in. Instant satisfaction, instant reward, instant money: And any of those only last a few hours, days, weeks or months at most. Everything comes and goes in the blink of an eye.

Technology (and therefore, computer software and therefore games) are no different. Unfortunately, the Internet has made it easier for Developers to not having to care about a long-lasting product. Because they can put out patches and DLCs that will get you through the year. And if you're still not satisfied after all the content/fixes they put out month in and month out, well.... you can always get next year's product and see if that one is any better.

This deserves a more philosophical debate, probably. But I strongly think that Internet has been both a gift and a curse in every aspect of our lives.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

People that say the transfer market is useless, they don’t notice a difference, either they are used to playing fifa or they don’t understand pes.
For starters don’t look at names, pes isn’t about names.
Priority number one is finding a player that has most or all tactical links to your style of play, very very important and overlooked.
Priority number 2 is the players style of play box to box, anchor, adv striker etc
Priority number 3 is player skills, one touch, acrobatic finishing etc,
Stats are last.
Cos there are players with very average stats but get a tick in all the other areas and play really well, cos they mould into the picture on how you want to play.
This years game is about players creating space and runs which is why the tactical links are number one, for example if u have your tactics to counter down the middle, but u have one player who is also counter but plays wide, it ruins the momentum your trying to create leaving gaps in the park and no one to pass too, same goes for flexible or maintain position if you have a mixture of that your team can become a mess and ruin your flow, this part Konami are trying to do is fkn amazing.

Very interesting point!

In my ML I chose stats over links when I was looking for players on the transfer market.
Never really cared about the links, but a Mbappe or a Che Adams (both strikers) with good stats, often have problems to score and pass, as the team spirit is not really high for them.

Gonna take more care of that.

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

Very interesting point!

In my ML I chose stats over links when I was looking for players on the transfer market.
Never really cared about the links, but a Mbappe or a Che Adams (both strikers) with good stats, often have problems to score and pass, as the team spirit is not really high for them.

Gonna take more care of that.

Yeah makes sense once you see it on the park when you get that player your after and fits your tactics, you’ll also notice there be a lot of top gun players you’ll be after that suit but availability is minimal, make use of the shortlist, I always make sure I have 5 links at minimum anything under player may take a while to adjust to your tactics depending on how long his tactic knowledge bar is. Good luck

 

[rojofa]

http://www.pcgamer.com/revenue-from-pc-free-to-play-microtransactions-has-doubled-since-2012/

"Microtransactions will generate $22bn of revenue in 2017, compared to $8bn from full game purchases."

That's where the money is... Wouldn't surprise me to see PES/FIFA go more F2P with more microtransactions. Want to play a season of ML? That'll be a fiver...

They only need to get a small number of whales in the door who will throw £100s/1000s at them to make something far more profitable than it would otherwise be from simply selling more copies based on the quality of the product alone.

They're clearly funnelling people towards MyClub; shoving news/promotions about it in your face when you boot the game, giving "GP" rewards for everything, showing the currencies in the corner of the screen... There's loads of stuff to keep reminding you to play that toxic game mode - it's become more prevalent each year and changes like that are bound to make them more money than they would get from making significant AI or game mode improvements.

They even released MyClub as a F2P, "PES Lite"...

 

[elfie]

It'd be really easy (and probably true) to say a lot of our love for those older games is based on the age we were and the time we lived in, that we're bathing in nostalgia.

But I feel like games were a little bit more of an artform back then (as in, more freedom, less pressure from higher-ups, with real aims as opposed to making money). To me it's switched to "get them hooked, make it action-packed, fast, jam microtransactions in there". (Just my opinion, I know some love the game.)

I feel like a bit of an old man / conspiracy theorist in feeling that way, but for me, football games are a little different from other games and they present a better opportunity to do the above (as do games like Battlefront II).

I agree with you, especially about the part that it has to do with the age we were and time we lived in.
I also sound like an old man, but then again i am an old man so i'm allowed to sounds like one, but times have indeed changed. Game development seems to have more "earn lots of money" focus and less love.
It is something that i see in business life as well.

That being said, MLB the show (sorry for again bringing up this baseball game that probably nobody ever plays) is an exeption.
It's released every year, improved upon every year and the devs actively participate on the operation sports forum.
They add tons of stuff without taking away other stuff.
So, they change something in the controls, but always leave you the option to play it in the old way.

But gameplay wise, that game has evolved year after year. The leaps have become less big but still they manage to improve it year to year. And even though i have fond love and memories for the old baseball games i played, there is absolutely NO WAY i every want to go back to them, simply because this game is so much better.

So....it is possible, and it can be done.

But...despite all the above they get lots of shit and negativaty thrown at them by the users who are angry that their favorite teams away jersey is just a tiny bit off color.
It's not easy being a game developer, having management push you to realease a yearly game to earn tons of money on one side, and angry forum fans giving you shit on the other side.

 

[Chuny]

http://www.pcgamer.com/revenue-from-pc-free-to-play-microtransactions-has-doubled-since-2012/

"Microtransactions will generate $22bn of revenue in 2017, compared to $8bn from full game purchases."

That's where the money is... Wouldn't surprise me to see PES/FIFA go more F2P with more microtransactions. Want to play a season of ML? That'll be a fiver...

They only need to get a small number of whales in the door who will throw £100s/1000s at them to make something far more profitable than it would otherwise be from simply selling more copies based on the quality of the product alone.

They're clearly funnelling people towards MyClub; shoving news/promotions about it in your face when you boot the game, giving "GP" rewards for everything, showing the currencies in the corner of the screen... There's loads of stuff to keep reminding you to play that toxic game mode - it's become more prevalent each year and changes like that are bound to make them more money than they would get from making significant AI or game mode improvements.

They even released MyClub as a F2P, "PES Lite"...

I wouldn't mind paying a monthly fee for a real amazing Master League mode. If it's down to a poor ML like we've had for the past 4 years OR having to pay regularly for one that's awesome, then I would be willing to. But it better be flawless and full of options, and not scripted, and REAL.

 

[Madmac79]

I would pay that kind of money (like a fee for any single ML or something) only if:

1)this hypothetical game would look, and play like real fucking soccer.
2)the modality itself was perfect. Like, the ultimate sum of a soccer career condensed on my pc.

In any other case that would be the beginning of me delving deep in retrogaming and praying to God that some indie guy or new comp created a fair, new soccer game.