PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Matt10 said:
It's a big fault. It happens all the time. Here's another example. I'm sorry, passive/conservative, whatever you want to call it. That defending is downright illogical. If anything, one of the CB's should step forward and the other retreat, but come on 1 v 4 and all 4 back up and give up all that space? Sorry, can't validate that to me.

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Yeah that's the reason for our existence - to validate why we enjoy PES to you. That has never happened to me stop screwing around with the stats.
 
zeemeister said:
Yeah that's the reason for our existence - to validate why we enjoy PES to you. That has never happened to me stop screwing around with the stats.
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Can you stop playing the role of cranky old man already? It's getting boring.

That video was on PS4, no custom option file - so no stats modified. I'm just illustrating an example that needs to be looked at regarding the defensive line. One of the CB's should at least step earlier, but due to the line height tactic, they are running backwards to the set line height from the tactics, and then reacting. It's a flaw, and like @Topaz said, it's the rigidness of the tactics.
 
Matt10 said:
Can you stop playing the role of cranky old man already? It's getting boring.

That video was on PS4, no custom option file - so no stats modified. I'm just illustrating an example that needs to be looked at regarding the defensive line. One of the CB's should at least step earlier, but due to the line height tactic, they are running backwards to the set line height from the tactics, and then reacting. It's a flaw, and like @Topaz said, it's the rigidness of the tactics.
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Why on earth did I bite I ask myself.
 
.. gotta love it when the cpu out-does you in the goal-of-the-month contender... this is what you get when you mix a 'chip' with a guy named 'Paolo Di Canio'.. :
 
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zeemeister said:
Yeah that's the reason for our existence - to validate why we enjoy PES to you. That has never happened to me stop screwing around with the stats.
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I am using default tactics and stats and CPU AI even at Superstar plays this way with defenders backing off everytime there is a counter attack.

His complaints about defenders rigidly following tactics are all valid.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
me: 27 shots 15 on target - 1 goal
cpu: 5 shots 3 on target - 2 goals

im done with this game. hilariously unfair on manual (professional, below that the cpu is terribly easy tho) and a mindless bs on assisted

heading back to rocket league, altough thats manual as hell when i play well i wont get screwed over by some cpu bs script
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tenor.gif


Matt10 said:
Can you stop playing the role of cranky old man already? It's getting boring.

That video was on PS4, no custom option file - so no stats modified. I'm just illustrating an example that needs to be looked at regarding the defensive line. One of the CB's should at least step earlier, but due to the line height tactic, they are running backwards to the set line height from the tactics, and then reacting. It's a flaw, and like @Topaz said, it's the rigidness of the tactics.
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I agree with you Matt, im constantly fighting with my team to move towards the ball carrier in situations like this, also when there is loose ball in the opp's final third. When you were illustrating these i was like " oh ok, whatever", but in tight derby games it comes out heavily, once your players flee from the ball to get in to position you will get crazy that 3 people get away from a dropped ball which should be just placed in the net. Same thing is in FIFA but there just players run away to whoever knows.

I think it has nothing to do with the defender abilities or the att-def levels.
Have you tried modifying the Out Of Possession tactics to the players be more up on the pitch compared to in position? At least the midfielders and strikers?
I think thats the trick. Altough it would mess up probably everything besides the tight situations during spot kicks ending up with the ball loose in the box.
Same thing could be done with gegenpress but i fear results would be the same and you can not apply adv inst to the cpu we know.

Maybe you can try increasing everyones attacking prowess to be more aware where the ball is and not to run away from it but...
So i think long story short its in the coding probably.

Ameppe said:
I am using default tactics and stats and CPU AI even at Superstar plays this way with defenders backing off everytime there is a counter attack.

His complaints about defenders rigidly following tactics are all valid.
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Yes its like conservative and aggressive tactics wont matter.
 
As for the commentary. Im not native English so i can much more overlook the commentary but hell even this game has better one. I think the problem is with whoever manage the recordings. There is no life to the lines.

 
The commentary is bearable to me this year only because they added Japanese comments to the mix.
Clearly I don't understand any word of it other than the occasional 'coroner kicko' and those sort of things that makes me giggle

Plus a lot of nostalgia of course
 
I havent even noticed the pitch wear yet! Nice! Were they announced it at all?

On the other hand tactics are dead, you cant make teams play possession footy (none of the cpu teams can go over 60%) its just like FIFA 18. Either slow counter or fast counter. We need a BUILD UP SPEED SLIDER in the tactics asap.
 
Not sure how I feel about the AI positioning talk. I think the way it is is fine for online, might be a little static for v COM play. But that's a totally different balancing issue. If you get too much automation in online play your defending can be done by putting the controller down or just holding a button or 2 (like the past 10 years of PES), it ends up requiring so little human intelligence. The defense in online play somehow feels more reliant on human judgement this year (maybe also because the game is slower, defenders don't cover as much distance in a short time). I only play online, so I'm all for that
 
vxcmplx said:
Not sure how I feel about the AI positioning talk. I think the way it is is fine for online, might be a little static for v COM play. But that's a totally different balancing issue. If you get too much automation in online play your defending can be done by putting the controller down or just holding a button or 2 (like the past 10 years of PES), it ends up requiring so little human intelligence. The defense in online play somehow feels more reliant on human judgement this year (maybe also because the game is slower, defenders don't cover as much distance in a short time). I only play online, so I'm all for that
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I agree that less automation on defence is generally better for multiplayer, but IMO there is still too much in some areas and not enough in others.

Tackling is still insanely easy/automated, just hold sprint+pressure and the player will home in on the ball and time the tackle with no other input at all. Holding CPU pressure that player will do the same. Too easy... They either need to make it so just holding these buttons causes reckless/intentional fouling, or tone down their ability to take the ball. Even in the last FIFA I played, these pressure buttons only do enough to contain, you still need to press a tackle button to time the tackle and take the ball (unless the opponent runs straight into you).

Despite that, the other 8/9 outfield players not controlled by you or being instructed to press are totally braindead idiots who do nothing except somewhat follow their position on the teamsheet with no regard for the ball. The AI for them is so simplistic, they seem to have a binary state for "team in possession" and that's all that matters. This is evident with the typical goal where a defender gets a touch but it stays with the attacker - as soon as the defender makes the touch the rest of the defensive players stop covering, spread out or bolt up the pitch expecting a pass when the team doesn't even have the ball. This is why I can only really tolerate co-op play because at least you have a human to override another of the ridiculously dumb CPU players on your team.

The game still doesn't treat the ball as a seperate entity.
 
superleeds1 said:
That is true but not a revelation really is it though, the game has had the same tired commentary for too long, some of it really gets on my tits. One would say lazy Konami,another would say too much time & expense involved in overhauling it.
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The mobile game has the same commentary.......as fantastic as current phones are that should not be the case.
 
rojofa said:
I agree that less automation on defence is generally better for multiplayer, but IMO there is still too much in some areas and not enough in others.

Tackling is still insanely easy/automated, just hold sprint+pressure and the player will home in on the ball and time the tackle with no other input at all. Holding CPU pressure that player will do the same. Too easy... They either need to make it so just holding these buttons causes reckless/intentional fouling, or tone down their ability to take the ball. Even in the last FIFA I played, these pressure buttons only do enough to contain, you still need to press a tackle button to time the tackle and take the ball (unless the opponent runs straight into you).

Despite that, the other 8/9 outfield players not controlled by you or being instructed to press are totally braindead idiots who do nothing except somewhat follow their position on the teamsheet with no regard for the ball. The AI for them is so simplistic, they seem to have a binary state for "team in possession" and that's all that matters. This is evident with the typical goal where a defender gets a touch but it stays with the attacker - as soon as the defender makes the touch the rest of the defensive players stop covering, spread out or bolt up the pitch expecting a pass when the team doesn't even have the ball. This is why I can only really tolerate co-op play because at least you have a human to override another of the ridiculously dumb CPU players on your team.

The game still doesn't treat the ball as a seperate entity.
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Agree. The AI is too rigid and braindead. It is impossible to control all 10 players on the field at the same time. Do i need to select every single player to move them so that they cover the space and cut the passing line? In fifa, the Ai will automatically reach out their leg or make sliding tackle to intercept the opponent's passing. Thats a sign of clever ai in cutting passing lane. Thus make passing harder and require more build up play. At least on offline mode
 
superleeds1 said:
That is true but not a revelation really is it though, the game has had the same tired commentary for too long, some of it really gets on my tits. One would say lazy Konami,another would say too much time & expense involved in overhauling it.
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I haven't played pes in a few years, and i'm already finding it dull and repetitive.

Playing the eredivisie games and hearing the commentator welcome the rest of the world who's viewing? It's the bleeding Eredivisie! Nobody watches that except us dutchies!
 
zeemeister said:
How's that different to pes defense?
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In PES you can't rely on any players you're not controlling to do anything. They will pretty much watch the ball run right past them when they could just stick out a foot to intercept.


The purpose of that video was to highlight the bad player switching, which is thankfully much improved... But it was the idiotic AI that exacerbated the problems with the switching - see the second clip there for instance, why would neither of those two players just take that ball? Do they really need the cursor on them and manual input from the user to just acknowledge the ball's existence? Plenty of other examples in the video too where the CPU teammates just ignore the ball.

This sort of thing is much rarer after the patch, but this braindead AI is still a problem when defending. Everyone except the user controlled and CPU pressure players don't even actively participate in the match, they rigidly follow the formation only.

I hope the next evolution in football games is to truly make the ball be treated as a seperate entity in terms of AI/physics.
 
I tend to defend with my midfielders and take control of the defenders as a last resort. I find especiallly on CO OP the AI defence is far superior to mine.

It's easier when the COM attack is so pathetic and one dimensional this year. This is my biggest and most painful gripe with PES 2018 I am hoping for a patch before I kick off ML but doubt it will happen tbh

If you don't mind me asking what defensive settings are you using. In terms of aggressive / conservative or All out defence or front line pressure? Do you ever press up or down to move your d line back and front?
 
zeemeister said:
I tend to defend with my midfielders and take control of the defenders as a last resort. I find especiallly on CO OP the AI defence is far superior to mine.

It's easier when the COM attack is so pathetic and one dimensional this year. This is my biggest and most painful gripe with PES 2018 I am hoping for a patch before I kick off ML but doubt it will happen tbh

If you don't mind me asking what defensive settings are you using. In terms of aggressive / conservative or All out defence or front line pressure? Do you ever press up or down to move your d line back and front?
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Don’t forget to also try Advanced and maybe click Low Defensive Line and Swarm the Box as tactics that can be implemented by holding L2 and left or right on the pad/stick.
 
People saying there are no individuality in this game should for example play Kanté as a DMF (which of course is his natural position) and set his advanced instructions to "defensive". Absolute beast.
 
superleeds1 said:
That is true but not a revelation really is it though, the game has had the same tired commentary for too long, some of it really gets on my tits. One would say lazy Konami,another would say too much time & expense involved in overhauling it.
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truly, it's a half baked game. Just looking at it as a none fan of PES or Fifa, you would see it as half done every year. Just a money grab from Konami, as their priorities lie in gambling machines. IMO....:D
 
Played PES 6 yesterday fully patched for the 2017/18 season.
More simple, limited obviously because of its age but still unequivocal fun. Definitely stands the tests of time and gameplay is fun.
2 questions come to mind, are the flaws less noticable because of the graphical differences?
Also I wonder if we had the level of debate now and PES 6 was the latest PES, would it get lambasted as much?
Still like PES 18, but having PES 6 fully patched and updated is still a quality experience.
Must source out a WE9LE online edition lol
 
fregen said:
People saying there are no individuality in this game should for example play Kanté as a DMF (which of course is his natural position) and set his advanced instructions to "defensive". Absolute beast.
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I don't think people saying there's no individuality because there is in some of the top players, it's the lack of effect in the stats that dumbs it down for the majority. Example of playing old PES if you had injuries and had to use a poor player say upfront you felt it in the recent pes you don't as shooting is very similar across all attackers. It's that kind of individuality that's missing for me.
 
I had some time to sneak in a few games after the patch. Gameplay feels a bit tighter, definitely experienced more fouls. Unfortunately still lots of space in the midfield, this is a real game-breaker for me. Should not be the case on top player in Champions League. Player switching still causes defenders to freeze for a second which makes me use :square: more to make my teammates storm in. With too much succes i must add, feels shit to be rewarded for simple pressing a button. This should result in more fouls and (cpu) attackers should be able to dodge or shield against these incoming running players more easily. On another note, would be nice if you could close down players without running and a way to do a super-cancel without running, i think. Its just too much of a run-fest right now without getting punished for it. In summary I want to be forced more to play a considered, tactical game with tight midfield battles and the occasional fast outbreak when exploiting a wrong pass. More fouls is a start, but its just a start. If they can fix player positioning and add more depth to defending this game would be an instant classic. 2019 perhaps? Or are we all doomed for endless craving?
 
superleeds1 said:
I am enjoying it very much actually,and can see the positives as well as the negatives.
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I'm loving it and can't stop playing Ml, huge variety of goals and attack options from the Ai . ..when one or two faults have been fixed in the game some people get the microscope out and study it for hours and find some bullshit that they don't like that most of us wouldn't notice or care about ..makes you wonder what the reasons really are . .even when Fifa is going great for them they have to come in here and chip away at the game with negativity.
 
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