PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Matt10]

depends what areas people want sliders, if its pressure, more passing/shooting error, shaping of formation width/narrow for example im strongly against it too, cos that means manager tactics ID and player individuality/stats become useless, which is why fifa is a mess and one of the reasons i dont play it apart from fifa 16 which was ok to play cos pes was crap. i honestly believe theres no strong direction in konami which is why the game is still broken in certain areas, could also be one of the reasons why bhatti is going to live in japan to be with devs all the time to make sure the important areas of football aint broken for pes 19, i fkn hope thats the case anyway cos i aint buying the game now till its released cos E3 and gamescom demos obviously isnt the game come release which is why pes united podcast has pulled the plug, they have had enough as well of being deceived with false promises.

strongly disagree with people saying all games are end to end thats BS, konami create a variety of scenarios but unfortunately theres a bit of a mess that they need to fix, which is where the lack of direction comes from.

Exactly. I haven't gone into specifics because I have no idea how KONAMI were to go about it. I just would love if there was an option. Also, FIFA is the worst base of sliders to work from. Duplicating actually any of EA's sliders are never a good base. 2ksports all day.

Regarding podcasts, yeah, me and the footyU guys are also a bit tired, and feel so indifferent/saddened, that we just don't know what to do and don't feel like talking for hours about the obvious. I do miss talking to the guys though!

 

[tobi]

When defending a goal kick, my midfielder's and forwards are always out of position and I don't know whether it's the game at fault or my tactics.

With Napoli (4-3-3), Hamsik will sometimes be the furthest forward on the left (where Insigne should be) and Allan will be the same on the right. This leaves Jorginho all alone in midfield.

Sometimes Mertens will be on the right of the front three and Callejon will be in the middle etc etc.

I know it's not flexible positioning because the same happens when I maintain formation. I know it's not gegenpress because I never use that option. I also know it's not the attack levels because I rarely go into the 'red'.

What is causing this?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

When defending a goal kick, my midfielder's and forwards are always out of position and I don't know whether it's the game at fault or my tactics.

With Napoli (4-3-3), Hamsik will sometimes be the furthest forward on the left (where Insigne should be) and Allan will be the same on the right. This leaves Jorginho all alone in midfield.

Sometimes Mertens will be on the right of the front three and Callejon will be in the middle etc etc.

I know it's not flexible positioning because the same happens when I maintain formation. I know it's not gegenpress because I never use that option. I also know it's not the attack levels because I rarely go into the 'red'.

What is causing this?

This could be altered with your tactics, but try holding R2, one the goal kick is about to be taken, your player will then move himself into position as he tracks the ball in flight.

I’ve posted a video earlier in answer to Gomito’s question with regards, further usage options of R2.

 

[rojofa]

When defending a goal kick, my midfielder's and forwards are always out of position and I don't know whether it's the game at fault or my tactics.

With Napoli (4-3-3), Hamsik will sometimes be the furthest forward on the left (where Insigne should be) and Allan will be the same on the right. This leaves Jorginho all alone in midfield.

Sometimes Mertens will be on the right of the front three and Callejon will be in the middle etc etc.

I know it's not flexible positioning because the same happens when I maintain formation. I know it's not gegenpress because I never use that option. I also know it's not the attack levels because I rarely go into the 'red'.

What is causing this?

Could be that you have "fluid formation" on? You can make players take up different positions when in and out of possession.

 

[tobi]

Could be that you have "fluid formation" on? You can make players take up different positions when in and out of possession.

I don't use fluid formation, I don't think it's implemented properly.

This could be altered with your tactics, but try holding R2, one the goal kick is about to be taken, your player will then move himself into position as he tracks the ball in flight.

I’ve posted a video earlier in answer to Gomito’s question with regards, further usage options of R2.

I'll try this now.

R2 doesn't work.

 

[rojofa]

Well first of all.
Arent we having very basic (no pun) assisted shooting because this whole assisted-semi assisted-manual trend started a while ago?
Now shooting and passing is either goes with pin point accuracy with the help of the cpu or you can play manual. Stats cant kick in ever.

Its not an excuse to have sliders tho but if i could i would remove all these assistance levels if it was my game and only mine. And have back the stat based shooting and passing. But you have to please the customer.

I agree with this 100%. IMO PES 2011 was the last one to have acceptable levels of pass/shot error depending on player stats and I don't think it's any coincidence that it's the last one before FUMA/zero assist/advanced came in.

The game was just the game, it was well balanced and had tons of player individuality. Didn't need manual passing to see misplaced passes, nor did you need advanced shooting to do powerful low shots... The controls were sufficient to instruct whatever you wanted to do (L2 manual modifier was there) and the execution was based on physics/attributes. It was rough around the edges, janky animations and unresponsive at times, but was very enjoyable and had lots of potential as a base to work from. Best online mode in MLO too.

Since zero assist/advanced controls were implemented, player individuality and error have been massively reduced - there is no intrinsic reason for this to be the case, but that is Konami's execution of it. This is another reason why I wouldn't trust them with sliders...

 

[kilay]

When defending a goal kick, my midfielder's and forwards are always out of position and I don't know whether it's the game at fault or my tactics.

With Napoli (4-3-3), Hamsik will sometimes be the furthest forward on the left (where Insigne should be) and Allan will be the same on the right. This leaves Jorginho all alone in midfield.

Sometimes Mertens will be on the right of the front three and Callejon will be in the middle etc etc.

I know it's not flexible positioning because the same happens when I maintain formation. I know it's not gegenpress because I never use that option. I also know it's not the attack levels because I rarely go into the 'red'.

What is causing this?

perhaps you changed your formation from another one without change the starting line...
first you should choose your formation (4-2-3-1 ,4-4-2, 4-3-3. etc) then rearrange the positions but don't change a 4-4-2 to a 3-5-2 cuz the kickoff placement will be wrong.

 

[tobi]

perhaps you changed your formation from another one without change the starting line...
first you should choose your formation (4-2-3-1 ,4-4-2, 4-3-3. etc) then rearrange the positions but don't change a 4-4-2 to a 3-5-2 cuz the kickoff placement will be wrong.

I tweaked Napoli's default starting lineup and formation, I'll try this with new teams.

With Inter I have Borja Valero (DMF) and Joao Mario (CMF box to box) in center midfield but sometimes one of them will be positioned higher than Icardi when defending goal kicks.

 

[Madmac79]

Well, on the FUMA controversy I agree with you. I think from a simulative point of view is 100% better ALL THE TIME to have a pretty good semi passing, shooting and long balls that takes in high value the player than three different settings that will inevitably mess up stats (even if this year, at least shooting to me it's better than in 2016/2017).

Pes 2011 had an indeed excellent semi in shooting and passing. Only problem with that game was the clunkyness of animations and the catch up bug, but I still remember it as one of my favourites ever.

 

[zeemeister]

I tweaked Napoli's default starting lineup and formation, I'll try this with new teams.

With Inter I have Borja Valero (DMF) and Joao Mario (CMF box to box) in center midfield but sometimes one of them will be positioned higher than Icardi when defending goal kicks.

Try the one of the shoulder buttons to make your players drop back can't remember which one it is.

 

[Matt10]

@Topaz and I found that stamina plays a huge role in error/humanizing the CPU. It wasn't perfect, but setting players to 40 stamina seemed to play a bit differently.

Going to dig into the global editing a bit more today after the RL football matches.

 

[Topaz]

@Topaz and I found that stamina plays a huge role in error/humanizing the CPU. It wasn't perfect, but setting players to 40 stamina seemed to play a bit differently.

Going to dig into the global editing a bit more today after the RL football matches.

That's a good first step man. But still got to figure that hoofing the ball crap they like to do too often. Did changing long pass did anything?

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Perhaps they hoofing the ball to the side because the defenders are out of position always?
Cpu players always have this enourmus space around them.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

@zeemeister and whats your opinion on passing assistance levels? Arent those sliders? Thats another topic that they dont work at all. Altough they used to in 2015.

 

[vxcmplx]

I agree with this 100%. IMO PES 2011 was the last one to have acceptable levels of pass/shot error depending on player stats and I don't think it's any coincidence that it's the last one before FUMA/zero assist/advanced came in.

The game was just the game, it was well balanced and had tons of player individuality. Didn't need manual passing to see misplaced passes, nor did you need advanced shooting to do powerful low shots... The controls were sufficient to instruct whatever you wanted to do (L2 manual modifier was there) and the execution was based on physics/attributes. It was rough around the edges, janky animations and unresponsive at times, but was very enjoyable and had lots of potential as a base to work from. Best online mode in MLO too.

Since zero assist/advanced controls were implemented, player individuality and error have been massively reduced - there is no intrinsic reason for this to be the case, but that is Konami's execution of it. This is another reason why I wouldn't trust them with sliders...

In my recollection, PES2011 was also the year that I was in division 1 using China....I didn't feel it was all that outstanding in terms of stats

 

[rojofa]

In my recollection, PES2011 was also the year that I was in division 1 using China....I didn't feel it was all that outstanding in terms of stats

I think this was more a case of the gameplay mechanics showing up the useless spammy players online. Mindlessly running around holding all the pressure buttons on defence, doing a few one-twos and then launching chipped through balls to fast players didn't really work, and seems to be how 95% of all online football game opponents play every year. The more recent games seem to favour that sort of style more and more.

I used some of the worst teams online and had plenty of results like this in high divisions online;

 

[Topaz]

In my recollection, PES2011 was also the year that I was in division 1 using China....I didn't feel it was all that outstanding in terms of stats

When it comes to stats, PES 2010 is the game where it truly felt like the best players were best. However PES 2011 was a better game in general but PES 2010 wil also be one of my favorite. I can still remember how I destroyed teams using Messi, Torres and Villa. After that, I don't remember ever destroying teams with a single player in any other footie game. Stats took a backseat due to the online world of team spirit/chemistry, scripting/boost, player cards/traits etc being more significant than stats.

 

[Matt10]

Online now testing some stats:

https://gaming.youtube.com/user/Matt10L/live

 

[vxcmplx]

I think this was more a case of the gameplay mechanics showing up the useless spammy players online. Mindlessly running around holding all the pressure buttons on defence, doing a few one-twos and then launching chipped through balls to fast players didn't really work, and seems to be how 95% of all online football game opponents play every year. The more recent games seem to favour that sort of style more and more.

I used some of the worst teams online and had plenty of results like this in high divisions online;

Hard to talk about that one. I think the most spammy players in PES2011 ended up playing 334 formation or some such, maybe even a 325. Catchup was insane, ping ponging was easy (I watched my own vids and saw how ping pongy I was myself lol). So I can't say I remember it as a great game. Also, there was no walking-speed football to be played in that game, everything was just movement always. At least that's how I remember it

EDIT: I found the vids. Here's a full game recording:



I don't know if I like it much, everything was fast paced, pressure was end to end without rest, ping pong play was present, passing was on rails, player speed don't look very differentiated...

Also, I see that there's less body checks (less collisions), but that's only because the game allows one player ghosting through another randomly. Like Xavi @2:16 of the 1st vid, I have no idea how he just walked in a straight line through bodies.

I think part of that is just because the game was too damn fast. There was no time to look at what's happening and respond. At least in 18 every touch I make can be premeditated. In PES11 a lot of things just happen and I have to wait until the game "calms down".

But that might be just the limits of an older game. It's 7 years old today haha. I mean if I meg someone on 18, I can tell you for sure I fully meant to do it. Here the field and the defending looks very "whack-a-mole" too.

(AND look at me using [] pressure like a a--hole lol)

 

[vxcmplx]

When it comes to stats, PES 2010 is the game where it truly felt like the best players were best. However PES 2011 was a better game in general but PES 2010 wil also be one of my favorite. I can still remember how I destroyed teams using Messi, Torres and Villa. After that, I don't remember ever destroying teams with a single player in any other footie game. Stats took a backseat due to the online world of team spirit/chemistry, scripting/boost, player cards/traits etc being more significant than stats.

So you are talking about individuality in individualistic play? I feel like it's hard to talk about stats coz players can feel like they have individuality while on the ball, but passing mechanics can be a complete different topic to talk about in terms of individuality. They are all supposed to be based on stats (in a perfect world at least), but we are better off keeping it on separate discussions, coz stats might work on one level, while not on the other.

Actually, when you bring up "destroying teams with a single player", this reminds me, in the beta of 2018, Coutinho was so far above the rest, when he's on the ball you feel like you can go ahead and beat 3 players and leave them on the floor. That feeling has gone from the game in the released version.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

When it comes to stats, PES 2010 is the game where it truly felt like the best players were best. However PES 2011 was a better game in general but PES 2010 wil also be one of my favorite. I can still remember how I destroyed teams using Messi, Torres and Villa. After that, I don't remember ever destroying teams with a single player in any other footie game. Stats took a backseat due to the online world of team spirit/chemistry, scripting/boost, player cards/traits etc being more significant than stats.

Amen.

I wrote pretty much this last week. PES 10 introduced the big variation with the first touch, it was so much more prevalent than it is today.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I love this years Dribbling mechanics, best ever.

This simple drop of the shoulder and slight change of direction was all that was required to pull of this perfect ‘Nutmeg’. Love it.

As a player, there is nothing better than ‘megging’ your opponent, and nothing more embarrassing than being ‘Megged’, it’s almost the unwritten pride v’s cheek rule in the game.

 

[Chuny]

I love this years Dribbling mechanics, best ever.

This simple drop of the shoulder and slight change of direction was all that was required to pull of this perfect ‘Nutmeg’. Love it.

As a player, there is nothing better than ‘megging’ your opponent, and nothing more embarrassing than being ‘Megged’, it’s almost the unwritten pride v’s cheek rule in the game.

Lovely!
And I agree, amazing dribbling mechanics. So contextual and intuitive.
I want this to be emphasized and increased for PES 2019!

 

[Matt10]

Defenders backing off like it's PES 2010 again...

 

[zeemeister]

@zeemeister and whats your opinion on passing assistance levels? Arent those sliders? Thats another topic that they dont work at all. Altough they used to in 2015.

Yep another of the reasons I do not like them. Anyway I am tired of that discussion

I love this years Dribbling mechanics, best ever.

This simple drop of the shoulder and slight change of direction was all that was required to pull of this perfect ‘Nutmeg’. Love it.

As a player, there is nothing better than ‘megging’ your opponent, and nothing more embarrassing than being ‘Megged’, it’s almost the unwritten pride v’s cheek rule in the game.

By far the best part of PES 2018 I simply love it. The level of control you have it astounding and the way the controller reacts to your inputs is really great work by Konami.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Defenders backing off like it's PES 2010 again...

thats good or bad?

 

[Topaz]

Defenders backing off like it's PES 2010 again...

Rigid tactics causing the issue.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

me: 27 shots 15 on target - 1 goal
cpu: 5 shots 3 on target - 2 goals

im done with this game. hilariously unfair on manual (professional, below that the cpu is terribly easy tho) and a mindless bs on assisted

heading back to rocket league, altough thats manual as hell when i play well i wont get screwed over by some cpu bs script

 

[mehuk]

Rigid tactics causing the issue.

How is that example an issue? Its good defending... the defence kept shape, the attacker had no options and lost the ball.

I can imagine Mourinho going ballistic if his defence did that... he might even run on the pitch, grab the ball and give it back to the attackers to try again, this time telling his players to commit themselves just because all footballers 'supposedly' have to press the ball the instant an opponent gets it.

Im glad to see examples of poor play in the game, there is plenty, its far from perfect. But idk if Matt10 is trying to pick a fault here, but your comment is and its bollocks.

 

[Matt10]

How is that example an issue? Its good defending... the defence kept shape, the attacker had no options and lost the ball.

I can imagine Mourinho going ballistic if his defence did that... he might even run on the pitch, grab the ball and give it back to the attackers to try again, this time telling his players to commit themselves just because all footballers 'supposedly' have to press the ball the instant an opponent gets it.

Im glad to see examples of poor play in the game, there is plenty, its far from perfect. But idk if Matt10 is trying to pick a fault here, but your comment is and its bollocks.

It's a big fault. It happens all the time. Here's another example. I'm sorry, passive/conservative, whatever you want to call it. That defending is downright illogical. If anything, one of the CB's should step forward and the other retreat, but come on 1 v 4 and all 4 back up and give up all that space? Sorry, can't validate that to me.