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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

kilay said:
totally disagree
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Well you are in denial then.

I believe it was Deco who did the Speed test using Bellerin and a 40s overall player and both ran the length of the pitch in 14seconds approx I think Bellerin was something like 14.2 and the 40s was 14.4. Not even noticeable.

I can guarantee that a player with Messi's stats height and weight would feel different to Messi himself but the same as a similar player with 40s for stats.

The only time speed and agility is somewhat noticeable is in Exhibition matches
 
gabe , in WE2002 or pes 3,4,5,6 yes there is big difference , from pes 14 is only placebo , thats all. just test it yourself and you will see truth but i warn you that your appetite for pes will disrepair , just like me ;) . Read what CDLFC84 wrote , nothing more to add.
 
CDLFC84 said:
Well you are in denial then.

I believe it was Deco who did the Speed test using Bellerin and a 40s overall player and both ran the length of the pitch in 14seconds approx I think Bellerin was something like 14.2 and the 40s was 14.4. Not even noticeable.

I can guarantee that a player with Messi's stats height and weight would feel different to Messi himself but the same as a similar player with 40s for stats.

The only time speed and agility is somewhat noticeable is in Exhibition matches
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There must be another Deco on here cos it wasn't me who did a speed test buddy.
 
Filippo-Inzaghi said:
In my opinion, sliders are the last thing a soccer game should have.

It’s just messing up with everything. Why should we use 6 months on finding the perfect balance in a game, when the overall lifetime is a year?

Can’t see it at all. FIFA and PES shall deliver what they think are the best and we consumers will pick the best edition up for our needs.

It’s too early talking sliders anyway. I would rather see an increased focus on game modes and stats before we are getting there. Make them matter more, should be a focus.

I’m thinking that sliders are quite like all these forums.. For me it would be the never-ending-goal in terms of testing, testing and testing to getting ‘’the perfect game’’.

In terms of these forums, I am feeling the same way. The other day I caught myself thinking. Would I really have noticed all these errors or would I just enjoy the game as it is?

Every year I find myself using minimal of time playing and a lot of time reading and waiting for a better patch, a better option file or something like that. Instead of just playing the game as it is and let it grow on me.
That’s a conflict for me. At the same time, I really enjoy reading people’s opinions, so it’s difficult.
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Where does this concept of 6 months come into play?

You do know that we are at the mercy of the marketing + devs on feedback they receive from a survey, right?

Say we get an update every 3 months from them. Majority of feedback is positive, even though we know there are glaring gameplay issues. Let's say it is so glaring, so...like a formation lock. You put 2 attackers up top, but no matter what, one attacker plays as a CDM. It's so obvious, and frustrating. However, it doesn't affect the online players because they all use a 4-3-3 and 3 forward systems aren't affected. However, even if someone does listen to you from KONAMI marketing, now it's up to the developer to consider it based on the collective "data" received from feedback.

Instead of having to HOPE that your voice is heard during feedback survey time, what if there was a slider value that could possibly fix that? Maybe it's due to the length/stretch of the players that prevents the other forward from joining next to the other forward. Wouldn't it be nice to have that instant control? That instant chance to pursue a fix? Not 6 months from now, not a year from now, and not at the mercy of the majority's feedback on issues that are not important to you?

There is this false mentality that we are all on the same level of demand. We're not. My priorities do not outweigh yours, and vice-versa. Just because someone is happy with the game, doesn't mean that someone else is. If there's an option there that allows someone to customize the game, that they are not happy with, and do so within the framework of what's given by the developers...then what could this possibly do to affect someone who doesn't use the option? Ifit makes them happy and now they're full on ready to play for hours upon hours - then where does PES lose? Where do we as a community lose?

We're talking a future PES here, not PES 18, a future, unproven PES. These are hypothetical scenarios, that are vague enough to illustrate the past, but not so detailed enough that it lists PES 19. The pride of purists are stubborn and the irony of PES is that it is constantly gearing to get with the times. Other sports gaming titles figured out that they need to satisfy all parties, and have more insurance to deliver this by execution of gameplay customization. Why PES doesn't join this realm has been illustrated in this thread and my twitter poll. Some viewpoints are stubborn and unproven, and some are so desperate to want to play PES that they're pushing for change.
 
So someone did a training speed test and deduced everyone is the same. My god. Did this person play pes at all?

Again

The AI on PES is a problem when you take players form, team spirit, competition stakes (semi of UCL or must win games), difficulty etc it will script the game to suit and outcome. This doesnt mean everyone is the same fgs it's the script. Anyone who says a Messi equals a 40 rated players is
A) high as fuck
B) Mentally unstable
C) all of the above


I mean.... No man stop being weird.... I am not entertaining this garbage

PS how did we go from sliders to this rubbish?
 
Matt10 said:
Where does this concept of 6 months come into play?

You do know that we are at the mercy of the marketing + devs on feedback they receive from a survey, right?

Say we get an update every 3 months from them. Majority of feedback is positive, even though we know there are glaring gameplay issues. Let's say it is so glaring, so...like a formation lock. You put 2 attackers up top, but no matter what, one attacker plays as a CDM. It's so obvious, and frustrating. However, it doesn't affect the online players because they all use a 4-3-3 and 3 forward systems aren't affected. However, even if someone does listen to you from KONAMI marketing, now it's up to the developer to consider it based on the collective "data" received from feedback.

Instead of having to HOPE that your voice is heard during feedback survey time, what if there was a slider value that could possibly fix that? Maybe it's due to the length/stretch of the players that prevents the other forward from joining next to the other forward. Wouldn't it be nice to have that instant control? That instant chance to pursue a fix? Not 6 months from now, not a year from now, and not at the mercy of the majority's feedback on issues that are not important to you?

There is this false mentality that we are all on the same level of demand. We're not. My priorities do not outweigh yours, and vice-versa. Just because someone is happy with the game, doesn't mean that someone else is. If there's an option there that allows someone to customize the game, that they are not happy with, and do so within the framework of what's given by the developers...then what could this possibly do to affect someone who doesn't use the option? Ifit makes them happy and now they're full on ready to play for hours upon hours - then where does PES lose? Where do we as a community lose?

We're talking a future PES here, not PES 18, a future, unproven PES. These are hypothetical scenarios, that are vague enough to illustrate the past, but not so detailed enough that it lists PES 19. The pride of purists are stubborn and the irony of PES is that it is constantly gearing to get with the times. Other sports gaming titles figured out that they need to satisfy all parties, and have more insurance to deliver this by execution of gameplay customization. Why PES doesn't join this realm has been illustrated in this thread and my twitter poll. Some viewpoints are stubborn and unproven, and some are so desperate to want to play PES that they're pushing for change.
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You keep talking about stubbornness. How about you stop being stubborn about sliders in PES. It isn't there lots of people don't want it there and I don't even think it's possible on PES stats based football.

Again if it's such a great thing why is fifa still not keeping you entertained.
 
Matt10 said:
Where does this concept of 6 months come into play?

You do know that we are at the mercy of the marketing + devs on feedback they receive from a survey, right?

Say we get an update every 3 months from them. Majority of feedback is positive, even though we know there are glaring gameplay issues. Let's say it is so glaring, so...like a formation lock. You put 2 attackers up top, but no matter what, one attacker plays as a CDM. It's so obvious, and frustrating. However, it doesn't affect the online players because they all use a 4-3-3 and 3 forward systems aren't affected. However, even if someone does listen to you from KONAMI marketing, now it's up to the developer to consider it based on the collective "data" received from feedback.

Instead of having to HOPE that your voice is heard during feedback survey time, what if there was a slider value that could possibly fix that? Maybe it's due to the length/stretch of the players that prevents the other forward from joining next to the other forward. Wouldn't it be nice to have that instant control? That instant chance to pursue a fix? Not 6 months from now, not a year from now, and not at the mercy of the majority's feedback on issues that are not important to you?

There is this false mentality that we are all on the same level of demand. We're not. My priorities do not outweigh yours, and vice-versa. Just because someone is happy with the game, doesn't mean that someone else is. If there's an option there that allows someone to customize the game, that they are not happy with, and do so within the framework of what's given by the developers...then what could this possibly do to affect someone who doesn't use the option? Ifit makes them happy and now they're full on ready to play for hours upon hours - then where does PES lose? Where do we as a community lose?

We're talking a future PES here, not PES 18, a future, unproven PES. These are hypothetical scenarios, that are vague enough to illustrate the past, but not so detailed enough that it lists PES 19. The pride of purists are stubborn and the irony of PES is that it is constantly gearing to get with the times. Other sports gaming titles figured out that they need to satisfy all parties, and have more insurance to deliver this by execution of gameplay customization. Why PES doesn't join this realm has been illustrated in this thread and my twitter poll. Some viewpoints are stubborn and unproven, and some are so desperate to want to play PES that they're pushing for change.
Click to expand...

For me there is something important about that we're a bunch of people playing a soccer game, there should be the same. Sliders are making hundreds of different games and I personally don’t want to be in a constant mode of ‘’Should I try his sliders’’ and ‘’Something felt better here in comparison to my own game’’ and so on. It would be a never-ending situation for me. Already in terms of patches, I can get this feeling and sliders would just give an extra layer here.

Rationally speaking. I can see why sliders would make sense – In terms of personalization and so on. But for me, the thought of it is already making me tired.

Personally, I already have enough in terms of game speed, passing assistance and so on. The core gaming experience should be the same though.

I have FIFA also. Personally, I have never used sliders. I just don’t want to play the awesome slider-game alone, to not feeling it with a friend and my brother, when playing the game with them on normal settings.
 
Matt10 said:
There is this false mentality that we are all on the same level of demand. We're not. My priorities do not outweigh yours, and vice-versa. Just because someone is happy with the game, doesn't mean that someone else is. If there's an option there that allows someone to customize the game, that they are not happy with, and do so within the framework of what's given by the developers...then what could this possibly do to affect someone who doesn't use the option? Ifit makes them happy and now they're full on ready to play for hours upon hours - then where does PES lose? Where do we as a community lose?
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Yeah. that's EXACTLY the point.

That football is a game with hundreds of small variants and facets, and with impossibly demanding fans each with his own different ideal vision, probably way more than any other sport out there, and unless an Alien civilization comes here tomorrow with a perfect soccer sim that truly replicates real life, we ain't gonna be all satisfied by the same title. Impossible (I have doubts that even my real life perfect game hypothesis would make everybody happy now that I think about it).

So, that said, given that without a solid base sliders are useless, of course in the future there must be a (very good) degree of customization. I mean, to make an example: I personally value stuff like physical collisions/tackles realism and players individuality more than, say, tactis. If a soccer game at the state of art in those two came, but somehow lacking in tactics came out, I just may be 100% happy. And at the same time you, that look with more interest at the way teams are placed in the field, would be disappointed.

Now why wouldn't I want a tool for you to have the freedom to adjust that, even tho I'm perfectly satisfied and doesn't change a single thing to me and my experience?
 
zeemeister said:
You keep talking about stubbornness. How about you stop being stubborn about sliders in PES. It isn't there lots of people don't want it there and I don't even think it's possible on PES stats based football.

Again if it's such a great thing why is fifa still not keeping you entertained.
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Well pes is anything but stats driven unless you play exhibition.

Since the removal of KEY stats such as pass accuracy and speed shot technique ect ect it has become less about stats.
 
I say chuck sliders in.. and at least it keeps everyone happy.

I read one member say he doesn' want them in there because he feels he would be tempted to use them. Well control your own urges? Lol.

I probably wouldn't use them except maybe speed to make it more even.

Career mode on fifa on world class or legendary made John Terry as fast as Fernando Torres... sliders sorted that out.
 
zeemeister said:
So someone did a training speed test and deduced everyone is the same. My god. Did this person play pes at all?

Again

The AI on PES is a problem when you take players form, team spirit, competition stakes (semi of UCL or must win games), difficulty etc it will script the game to suit and outcome. This doesnt mean everyone is the same fgs it's the script. Anyone who says a Messi equals a 40 rated players is
A) high as fuck
B) Mentally unstable
C) all of the above


I mean.... No man stop being weird.... I am not entertaining this garbage

PS how did we go from sliders to this rubbish?
Click to expand...


I cannot agree... speed should NEVER be messed with. Even on my best day Usain Bolt would smoke me.. fact. Even on his worst day. So form means nothing to speed and stamina and strength.

Also @superleeds1 wasn't that post personal to me? Basically he is saying I'm all 3 A BIT AND C LOL
 
I can sympathize with you guys when you say "I would never be satisfied with sliders as I'd need to tweak them all the time", but that's not an argument.

It's like me saying that I have troubles choosing the team with which play a Master League (true story, it takes me weeks, sometimes months to be really satisfied) and blaming it on the fact we have dozens of teams to choice from. Just no..
 
zeemeister said:
You keep talking about stubbornness. How about you stop being stubborn about sliders in PES. It isn't there lots of people don't want it there and I don't even think it's possible on PES stats based football.

Again if it's such a great thing why is fifa still not keeping you entertained.
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This in bold is enough for me to release discussion with you on this subject matter, Zee. You're not being open minded and closing off to the "go play FIFA then" comment is not needed. These are legitimate discussions. Your argument is that PES is stat based, and I've provided examples of how elements of it are not. Even if they are, there are other variables than just stats in PES that cause gameplay reactions. I've already listed them, and apparently it was wasted breath.
 
I'm me and I'm here to talk PES. I guess my status of new member means I have zero knowledge about the games right? Lol. I agree with you normally but on this subject Zee I don't. Still think your cool though.
 
Matt10 said:
This in bold is enough for me to release discussion with you on this subject matter, Zee. You're not being open minded and closing off to the "go play FIFA then" comment is not needed. These are legitimate discussions. Your argument is that PES is stat based, and I've provided examples of how elements of it are not. Even if they are, there are other variables than just stats in PES that cause gameplay reactions. I've already listed them, and apparently it was wasted breath.
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Spot on pal,

Look Matt has done loads for this community and I think he knows what he is talking about.

In ML stats mean nothing... and you have to realise that ML is THE goto mode for offline players (80%) guesstimate.

I love the franchise I really do and think by adding sliders as an OPTION is a brilliant and much needed idea.

Nobody is saying that you all have to have it but why should those who want it miss out? Why should they have to play FIFA?
 
Matt10 said:
This in bold is enough for me to release discussion with you on this subject matter, Zee. You're not being open minded and closing off to the "go play FIFA then" comment is not needed. These are legitimate discussions. Your argument is that PES is stat based, and I've provided examples of how elements of it are not. Even if they are, there are other variables than just stats in PES that cause gameplay reactions. I've already listed them, and apparently it was wasted breath.
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Stats don't matter and Messi is the same as a 40 rated . I think we passed legitimate discussions a few pages back.
 
Miss out? Man please. The whole sliders argument is based on a falacy that stats don't matter.

Keep it in fifa if you want sliders that's your go to game. Leave pes it can't work with sliders pretty much sums up my argument.

This whole discussion points to people who don't understand pes. Simple basic fundamentals that they just don't understand and it scares me shit less that these people could somehow affect PES.
 
Filippo-Inzaghi said:
For me there is something important about that we're a bunch of people playing a soccer game, there should be the same. Sliders are making hundreds of different games and I personally don’t want to be in a constant mode of ‘’Should I try his sliders’’ and ‘’Something felt better here in comparison to my own game’’ and so on. It would be a never-ending situation for me. Already in terms of patches, I can get this feeling and sliders would just give an extra layer here.

Rationally speaking. I can see why sliders would make sense – In terms of personalization and so on. But for me, the thought of it is already making me tired.

Personally, I already have enough in terms of game speed, passing assistance and so on. The core gaming experience should be the same though.

I have FIFA also. Personally, I have never used sliders. I just don’t want to play the awesome slider-game alone, to not feeling it with a friend and my brother, when playing the game with them on normal settings.
Click to expand...

Didn't you just answer yourself there? You don't use the slider, and problem solved. How is adding an optional feature to the game affecting those that don't want the optional feature? It sounds just like people who are scared of a change simply because it's different. All of the reasons you give are because you feel uncomfortable, but no one is going to force you to use the sliders. So for those against sliders in PES it's essentially a mentality of, " I have mine, I don't care about yours". Thankfully, this discussion is moot, given Konami is unlikely to put sliders, but that is down more to Konami being way behind the times in many things (and in front in others btw).
 
People moan about PES now, if/when sliders are introduced, day one the game will get absolute pelters. Even the staple sports games that lead the way such as NBA2K or MLB The Show are hammered because 'on default they are not realistic enough'..... yet a +1 slider movement to something like 'shot tendency' and you get all and sundry proclaiming how the game is like having LeBron James sat in your front room.

The game needs to come as it should. Blanket slider changes will just make an already similar AI, just become one big same old, same old.

The fact is, FIFA is crap with or without slider changes, dont be fooled into thinking anything different. Its all PLACEBO.
 
zeemeister said:
Miss out? Man please. The whole sliders argument is based on a falacy that stats don't matter.

Keep it in fifa if you want sliders that's your go to game. Leave pes it can't work with sliders pretty much sums up my argument.

This whole discussion points to people who don't understand pes. Simple basic fundamentals that they just don't understand and it scares me shit less that these people could somehow affect PES.
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Don't understand PES?! Lol. What is there to understand when during ML Mertersaker is as fast as Salah?

mehuk said:
People moan about PES now, if/when sliders are introduced, day one the game will get absolute pelters. Even the staple sports games that lead the way such as NBA2K or MLB The Show are hammered because 'on default they are not realistic enough'..... yet a +1 slider movement to something like 'shot tendency' and you get all and sundry proclaiming how the game is like having LeBron James sat in your front room.

The game needs to come as it should. Blanket slider changes will just make an already similar AI, just become one big same old, same old.

The fact is, FIFA is crap with or without slider changes, dont be fooled into thinking anything different. Its all PLACEBO.
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You are right FIFA is crazy but sliders do make a difference. For example taking acceleration down one notch reduces the chance on Merersaker catching Salah... however the AI'S rapids players can still out run my slow players. The only time it's a problem is when similar speed players run.. it always favours my setting.

At the core of it PES needs to make stats matter.. however sliders can and will bridge the gap until then.
 
CDLFC84 said:
Not so much hidden stats but more so on star players hidden code maybe. Remember Adriano on Pes 6...



Exactly pal.



Sorry fella I thought it was you. I know it was a long time board member though.

@superleeds1 still doing the same thing. Go back through these few pages.. people disagreeing and saying things about matt.. I guess they weren't being personal then?

Also you were just being personal to me by posting a meme about troll spray. You should take a look at the meaning of online trolling.

I'm entitled to my opinion and if I think he is in denial much like they think matt is wrong ect then surely on a public forum I'm allowed to say so.. considering I wasn' horrible about it.
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You only joined Saturday but You have just blown Your cover,You failed master of disguise.
Byyyyeee.
 
What´s more intriguing here is that sudenly we´re asking for sliders and voting for them... I wish we all had the same effort for things like player individuality, wich would make this game so much better.
 
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