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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Download finished - I'll get some hours into it when I'm home from work in a few hours. Don't think anyone answered this yet but is there a link for kit formula's somewhere so I can get the shirt colours right on the xbox?
 
You’re welcome.

I beat Liverpool on Top Player the other night, Exhibition, 14 minutes game, I won 2-1 but hated the whole 90 minutes.

It felt wrong.

I just want to play a competitive but fair game of football, and I’m certainly not some Billy Big Bollocks who needs to come here and lie/boast about beating Madrid on Superstar. That’s just bullshit and not helping anyone but some delusional self-importance based ego.

Have fun, enjoy, that’s what football is all about.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
You’re welcome.

I beat Liverpool on Top Player the other night, Exhibition, 15 minutes game, I won 2-1 but hated the whole 90 minutes.

It felt wrong.

I just want to play a competitive but fair game of football, and I’m certainly not some Billy Big Bollocks who needs to come here and lie/boast about beating Madrid on Superstar. That’s just bullshit and not helping anyone but some delusional self-importance based ego.

Have fun, enjoy, that’s what football is all about.
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I know what you mean - I've seen people boast (not here, just around the place) about the top difficulties in games being too easy etc and if you watch them play they're just trying to win, not necessarily play realistic football or enjoy the game. I found Top Player was a good battle for me on the demo but have usually found Professional a nice balance of enjoyment and less ragey moments ha ha.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I know what you mean - I've seen people boast (not here, just around the place) about the top difficulties in games being too easy etc and if you watch them play they're just trying to win, not necessarily play realistic football or enjoy the game. I found Top Player was a good battle for me on the demo but have usually found Professional a nice balance of enjoyment and less ragey moments ha ha.
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And they are all playing on high level pass assist, where you can close your eyes, press X and make the perfect pass. Yeah, very realistic (sighs).

Ant of those PS4 Superstar/Legend professed world beaters on Zero Assist Passing, feel free to add me, jimmygforce1974 as I’m dying to see this. ;)

On a different note homies...

(Zee, Gomito, Klash, Lami, Satnik, Rom, et al, add me guys )
 
Holding R2 also adds elevation to the lofted passes from corners, free kicks and crosses (and early crosses holding L1).

I like using it when I want to position my player the other side of the ball rather than taking a touch and turning straight away. Can buy a little more space at both ends of the pitch in some situations.

A quick gif of the type of movement I mean;

SorrowfulImpoliteAsianelephant-size_restricted.gif
 
rojofa said:
Holding R2 also adds elevation to the lofted passes from corners, free kicks and crosses (and early crosses holding L1).

I like using it when I want to position my player the other side of the ball rather than taking a touch and turning straight away. Can buy a little more space at both ends of the pitch in some situations.

A quick gif of the type of movement I mean;

SorrowfulImpoliteAsianelephant-size_restricted.gif
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I was just about to add this, but thank-you. It’s nice to know I’m not alone with the magic of R2.
 
I don't like the slider idea too, but i'm now reconsidering. What bad could they bring to Pes? Developers becoming lazy? Look at Pes 2018 gameplay... they ruined it for no reason, devs already are lazy and superficial when developing Pes gameplay. If they will introduce sliders at least some people will enjoy Pes more than they are enjoying it now.

Supported @Matt10 survey on twitter, retweeted it to officialpes.
 
I wouldn't mind more options in PES, like the odd slider here and there. But I'd rather see Konami put there limited resources into making the AI play a more varied game of football and into making the foul system and shooting better. I haven't liked the shooting in PES since the PS2 days.
 
zeemeister said:
Sliders?

Fuck that. I don't have time to tinker and devs to start getting lazy because we can fix it..

Half the people here who want sliders are fifa players... If it was so great why are you even here. SMH
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This!

I mean, I understand why some people wanna have sliders, specially when they´re used to setting them in the other game.
I´m okay with the gameplay of PES this year.
The only two things that put me off is AI scripting on ML, specially when small teams play better than the big ones and fouls being handled too weak by the ref.

If sliders would fix those things, I´d like having them.

But then...this is KONAMI....don´t mean to bash them, but we all know that we have to hope and pray before every release and before every patch, that issues get ironed out and good stuff doesn´t get messed up.

Plus, sliders could be another building yard to them or, like Zee said, they wouldn´t work on gameplay stuff not hard enough no more and be like "You wanted sliders...so go on set it right!".

Dilemma....
 
@Chuny i think having option in gameplay slider and option in weather and match time is different in nature..

in my opinion, Konami should just focus on how stats and everything inside gameplan give more pronounced impact on the game.

Having something like more pass error, defensive line is like overlapping the idea of having player stats and gameplan options in the beginning.

offtopic love pes ball physic this year :D
 
2 goals from today.

First one has 2 unconventional megs. First one with standing knock-on (no L stick, R2+R stick direction). Second one is a drag back. Both aren't designed for megs, just repurposed.




Next goal is a knuckle shot. But the key thing here is the body gesture to telegraph a pass. My friend was playing against me and like myself, defends without [] or X pressure. It was very difficult to wrong foot him and drag him out of position, so all game long I had to do a lot of extra work in gesturing false intentions so that he would go the wrong way.



Here, it was as subtle as lifting up the ball, pressing O for a chip pass, then super cancelling the pass. U can see the minor leg swing for the pass, that's coz I did the super cancel very early on in the animation. It just dropped his shoulder and shook his body for a tiny bit, hips moved sightly , leg swing minimal (u can't see pass power here, I disabled it.)

Commands used were a R3 lift up, then O pass, super cancelled early in the leg swing animation, then R2 strafing sideways.

This is very different from a full on shot feint ([] + X). It's much more subtle and throws your body weight a lot less
 
+1

Thespeedster84 said:
@Chuny i think having option in gameplay slider and option in weather and match time is different in nature..

in my opinion, Konami should just focus on how stats and everything inside gameplan give more pronounced impact on the game.

Having something like more pass error, defensive line is like overlapping the idea of having player stats and gameplan options in the beginning.

offtopic love pes ball physic this year :D
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+1

Stats differentiation is the essence of what makes PES and sliders I would anticipate dilute that further.
 
I don't like sliders to much either. With sliders you are always looking for the perfect settings and you are never really satisfied. You always think it still could be a little bit better if you change it here and there.

Instead of sliders i would like to have 2 new game modes. An arcade mode and a sim mode. In sim mode player stats would have more influence, passing and shooting would not be so accurate depending on player stats, wrong foot etc. and all the other things (first touch etc.) we would love to see in the game for a better realistic feeling.

And if you would like to have a more fun game you could choose the arcade mode where stats don't matter so much and where you could play the game much more assisted.

I think this could be a good solution for everyone.
 
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Robbery said:
I don't like sliders too much either. With sliders you are always looking for the perfect settings and you are never really satisfied. You always think it still could be a little bit better if you change it here and there.

Instead of sliders i would like to have 2 new game modes. An arcade mode and a sim mode. In sim mode player stats would have more influence, passing and shooting would not be so accurate depending on player stats, wrong foot etc. and all the other things (first touch etc.) we would love to see in the game for a better realistic feeling.

And if you would like to have a more fun game you could choose the arcade mode where stats don't matter so much and where you could play the game much more assisted.

I think this could be a good solution for everyone.
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Again though, arcade vs sim is down to who's perception? I would be up for the concept sure, but KONAMI's execution hasn't been decent since PES14.

If KONAMI can accept the idea of simulation then they need to understand the fundamentals and execute them. I hope they hire a former coach or something that will show them how to place a lineup on the tactical board to start with.

From there it's a matter of, again, hoping that they execute. If not, it's another 3 months shelved without sliders or gameplay customization.
 
I'd like to see some evidence of the correlation between "sliders" and "devs getting lazy", considering that seems to be the only argument against them.

I would argue that "devs getting lazy" (or, more fairly, games getting worse) is because developers (including Konami) make more money for nothing - as in, literally nothing (wheel spins in myClub etc.) - or if they make the game prettier (Frostbite in FIFA) - than if they improve gameplay.

But it's less "no need to invest in gameplay" and more "why change it and risk less sales, because then we don't have a platform to push the microtransactions".

I can support that claim with FIFA's increasing sales after the move over to Frostbite despite loads of emergency "EA need to fix this bit of gameplay" articles across major gaming websites - one, two, three (nothing like this for PES, even if we're discussing fouls here) - and also their FUT-sales-to-game-sales (see this).

Nicer graphics = more sales, gameplay that gets torn to pieces by their usual communities = no impact on sales, FUT income = 3x, 4x, 5x income from game sales.

I would argue - though many would disagree (and I respect that, massively, because I respect anyone's opinion who ever chose PES rather than the glitzy competition) - that both major football games this year are worse products than before.

The lack of sliders in one certainly hasn't caused the disappearance of fouls (they've not been there for a while), the lack of individuality (attributes making less and less of a difference), and everything else that may or may not (depending on your opinion) be wrong with the game.

Evidence that sliders make a bad game, if not fundamentally different, then better - is plentiful (there are many volumes of FIFA).

Evidence that those games are bad because of sliders... There isn't any. They're bolted on for offline gamers (like me) who refuse to give them any extra money, but we're such a small part of their income, they really don't care about us. They certainly don't impact the online game, and that's all either developer cares about.
 
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Yet, what people complain the most is the lack of fouls and individuality. Sliders wouldn´t make sense in these areas. From the way I see it, PES doesn´t need sliders to be the best soccer game. Just correct these two things, and then start working on licenses and a deeper offline mode.
 
lancers said:
Chris you play both games right? Since you don't seem to be in love with either this year what would be your favorite PES and FIFA editions?
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Last year's games. I don't hang onto the past, love seeing people playing the old games but it's not for me.

I could play PES 2017 without getting annoyed - except, I just couldn't get past the AI "scripting" in certain circumstances, or the complete absence of pass error. I could play FIFA 17 without getting annoyed - except, every match felt the same.

To my mind (and this is only my opinion), PES 2017 just needed pass error and some major career mode additions for me to really love it. FIFA 17 needed an AI that made teams have totally different styles, and that stopped making Barnet play like Barcelona.

What we got (in my opinion) is the same PES but now matches feel less varied (I can't get past the lofted through-balls), and the same FIFA except every team now plays a different same way (every pass is forward, every teams wants to attack).
 
Pes is a Stat based game. Everything is built around stats. Whilst this may not be prevalent in the AI as it's scripted to hell and gone the core game is still stat based and it manifests itself when playing against other human opposition. Playing a lesser team or a team with with lesser players it is clear as day. Playing a Dani Alves compared to a defensive fullback like ivanovic or even a two offensive fullbacks who cover different areas on the pitch. The balance of offense to defense also affects how that player pushes forward or pulls backs. It is all Stat based and makes players in PES unique.

It's for this reason that a target man like Lukaku is different to Track back striker like Cavani.

If you introduce slides what are you affecting? Player speed, player pass accuracy, players need to run into certain areas? Players mentality. How can adjusting these things be good for a Stat based game like pes? Again I understand what people want from sliders but it will not work in pes because it will start to hamper the holy grail that is player and team individuality.

Yes the AI needs to be fixed, yes the stats go out the window when the script kicks and slow defenders catch up to speed wingers or Bournemouth start playing tiki taki like 2011 barca but that is an issue that needs to be addressed and sliders are not the answer.
 
Also, I think the group opposing customization in gameplay is being a bit naive.
zeemeister said:
Pes is a Stat based game. Everything is built around stats. Whilst this may not be prevalent in the AI as it's scripted to hell and gone the core game is still stat based and it manifests itself when playing against other human opposition. Playing a lesser team or a team with with lesser players it is clear as day. Playing a Dani Alves compared to a defensive fullback like ivanovic or even a two offensive fullbacks who cover different areas on the pitch. The balance of offense to defense also affects how that player pushes forward or pulls backs. It is all Stat based and makes players in PES unique.

It's for this reason that a target man like Lukaku is different to Track back striker like Cavani.

If you introduce slides what are you affecting? Player speed, player pass accuracy, players need to run into certain areas? Players mentality. How can adjusting these things be good for a Stat based game like pes? Again I understand what people want from sliders but it will not work in pes because it will start to hamper the holy grail that is player and team individuality.

Yes the AI needs to be fixed, yes the stats go out the window when the script kicks and slow defenders catch up to speed wingers or Bournemouth start playing tiki taki like 2011 barca but that is an issue that needs to be addressed and sliders are not the answer.
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It used to be stat based, man. I can show you countless of examples to how stats since PES 16 have meant nothing. They are consolidated catch phrases.

Talking about stats, think about tactics, then advanced instructions, then player styles, then player roles, then attack defense levels. Do you know where they determine the attack defense levels???? From simple tactics...which no-one in KONAMI know about, but I had to show Adam and the stats guy.

Please, you want to put trust into another year to find common fundamentals? Look at all the things I listed, and try to honestly defend that they know what they're doing.

This community has uncovered more than what KONAMI knows about their own game. Just imagine if we were given the control to work within the intended framework vs stat hacking or breaking the code. Longevity, excitement, master league discussions, repeatability... everything. I think we deserve it, and I'm tired of marketing and devs thinking we don't.
 
zeemeister said:
Used to be Stat based? Come on man. I can't have a serious discussion when we start talking this nonsense
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I'm serious. I spent the last 2 weeks modifying stats. Look at ball winning for example. It doesn't make the player less able to tackle the ball, nope. It makes no difference. Try it. Put it on 40 and see how their ball winning ability makes zero difference, other than the overall.

PES stats used to mean something. With the exception to values like explosive power, passing, etc. there is a huge amount that are layered now to null effect, except only to affect the overall.
 
Matt10 said:
Again though, arcade vs sim is down to who's perception? I would be up for the concept sure, but KONAMI's execution hasn't been decent since PES14.

If KONAMI can accept the idea of simulation then they need to understand the fundamentals and execute them. I hope they hire a former coach or something that will show them how to place a lineup on the tactical board to start with.

From there it's a matter of, again, hoping that they execute. If not, it's another 3 months shelved without sliders or gameplay customization.
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You're right Matt10 and yes we are in the hands of Konami and if they don't deliver there is nothing we can do about it. Just waiting (ages!) for half-hearted patches.

From this point of view i understand that you prefer sliders instead of just waiting for a patch. But I still think that you (or rather say me, because that is my experience with sliders in Fifa and NBA2k) always end up running in circles in search for the perfect settings. It's just testing and testing and testing.
 
Robbery said:
You're right Matt10 and yes we are in the hands of Konami and if they don't deliver there is nothing we can do about it. Just waiting (ages!) for half-hearted patches.

From this point of view i understand that you prefer sliders instead of just waiting for a patch. But I still think that you (or rather say me, because that is my experience with sliders in Fifa and NBA2k) always end up running in circles in search for the perfect settings. It's just testing and testing and testing.
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Definitely possible. Don't forget though that the pursuit towards a solution is better than not having one to begin with.

Also FIFA sliders are perceived as never ending because we constantly have to adjust based on the multiple title updates. If they're weren't any I guarantee you we wouldn't have this perception of never being satisfied.
 
zeemeister said:
Pes is a Stat based game. Everything is built around stats. Whilst this may not be prevalent in the AI as it's scripted to hell and gone the core game is still stat based and it manifests itself when playing against other human opposition. Playing a lesser team or a team with with lesser players it is clear as day. Playing a Dani Alves compared to a defensive fullback like ivanovic or even a two offensive fullbacks who cover different areas on the pitch. The balance of offense to defense also affects how that player pushes forward or pulls backs. It is all Stat based and makes players in PES unique.

It's for this reason that a target man like Lukaku is different to Track back striker like Cavani.

If you introduce slides what are you affecting? Player speed, player pass accuracy, players need to run into certain areas? Players mentality. How can adjusting these things be good for a Stat based game like pes? Again I understand what people want from sliders but it will not work in pes because it will start to hamper the holy grail that is player and team individuality.

Yes the AI needs to be fixed, yes the stats go out the window when the script kicks and slow defenders catch up to speed wingers or Bournemouth start playing tiki taki like 2011 barca but that is an issue that needs to be addressed and sliders are not the answer.
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Amen.

Case closed.
 
Completly agree with @Matt10.

But going back to the ‘slider’ talk, maybe adding a Global Stat Editor would be good. Provided they make stats make more of a difference like in the past. ;)

Similar to how some of us used to use pesfan editor.
 
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