PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Chris Davies said:
I'm assuming that's aimed at me as I don't recall anyone else saying it (although what I actually said was "the AI doesn't play PA0", not "I wish the AI used PA0" - so maybe I'm wrong)...

My point was that the AI doesn't misjudge pass direction and end up kicking the ball too far to the side of a player for them to reach it, or kick the ball out of play. The most they do is underhit a pass, which allows you to intercept it - and that's how PA1 works too from what I can see. Therefore: the AI, for all intents and purposes, is "using" PA1.

It will make your passes to be slow/intercepted just like it will do to its own. Therefore, I think that's "fair", though I may be wrong in feeling that way.

But playing on PA0, your pass accuracy - okay, MY pass accuracy, I won't generalise - will always be lower than the AI's, despite having potentially better passers of the ball. So it doesn't make sense to me to do that, and that's why I said all you're really doing (or all I personally would be doing) is handicapping yourself, rather than giving yourself some new world of realism (especially given that attributes suddenly matter less).
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Imo even the cpu ai has error..100s of games over a week I've played on both formats.Just one of those games where you don't always notice the finer details at first,same with basic shooting.

Not a criticism or critique and I can show almost equal passing stats between me playing a similar stat side using Pa0.

Happy to show you a photo,if you don't think it's a credible statement.
 
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If you put the CPU on PA0 it still needs to pretend it can't aim perfectly, instantaneously, with perfect weight, using numerical values to aim and execute actions. We've got thumbs and a bit of practice.

Even on manual I feel a bit guilty sometimes because I know I can do stuff which is a bit too accurate and controlled despite being a first time volley off a cross field pass. There needs to be more error regardless of controller aim, based on the player passing, and the CPU needs to have decision making that means it doesn't know exactly what the outcome of a riskier pass will be, only what it might be. There are loads of little things that need to be done, and most of what people want from the CPU using PA0 is actually passing error which is needed across the entire game.
 
I've tried PA0 3 times in the demo and every time i switched back after one half. It's just too frustrating for me, this is where 20 years of assisted controls on PES and FIFA backfire i guess.
I couldn't string 5 passes together, probably because i'm not used to precisely aim with the stick?! Any ideas to get used to it quicker or do i just have to bear with the hard part?
 
Chris Davies said:
I'm assuming that's aimed at me as I don't recall anyone else saying it (although what I actually said was "the AI doesn't play PA0", not "I wish the AI used PA0" - so maybe I'm wrong)...

My point was that the AI doesn't misjudge pass direction and end up kicking the ball too far to the side of a player for them to reach it, or kick the ball out of play. The most they do is underhit a pass, which allows you to intercept it - and that's how PA1 works too from what I can see. Therefore: the AI, for all intents and purposes, is "using" PA1.

It will make your passes to be slow/intercepted just like it will do to its own. Therefore, I think that's "fair", though I may be wrong in feeling that way.

But playing on PA0, your pass accuracy - okay, MY pass accuracy, I won't generalise - will always be lower than the AI's, despite having potentially better passers of the ball. So it doesn't make sense to me to do that, and that's why I said all you're really doing (or all I personally would be doing) is handicapping yourself, rather than giving yourself some new world of realism (especially given that attributes suddenly matter less).
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There are a couple of people talking along the same lines or just repping / +1ing, and I've read it before.

In terms of it not making sense to you to switch to PA0 because your pass completion drops below the CPU's - isn't that the wrong measure of whether or not it improves the game? Surely that's one statistic among hundreds you could use. People complain about the quality and variety of the shooting, for instance, not merely the number of them. I don't want to open that debate up again but it wasn't enough that the shots would miss, it's that they'd miss narrowly all the time rather than ballooning / scuffing etc.

As for not opening up a new world of realism - well it does, substantially, for the time that you're on the ball. As you can see, I agree that there should be more error (though I disagree that PA0 removes individuality). But it's a significantly different game to control for the 40-60% of the time you have the ball if you use PA0.
 
romagnoli said:
Even on manual I feel a bit guilty sometimes because I know I can do stuff which is a bit too accurate and controlled despite being a first time volley off a cross field pass. There needs to be more error regardless of controller aim, based on the player passing, and the CPU needs to have decision making that means it doesn't know exactly what the outcome of a riskier pass will be, only what it might be. There are loads of little things that need to be done, and most of what people want from the CPU using PA0 is actually passing error which is needed across the entire game.
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I agree 100% with that. Couldn't have put it better.

That for me has been the problem with PES for a long time - how basic input is. That's why scoring feels flat to me, because it feels less like kicking a ball and more like firing a bullet (I'm not saying that in a throwaway "mehh everything's a rocket" way - as in, I point in a direction, press shoot, and the ball instantly, without any transfer of power or acceleration, moves at 100mph, with the slightest backlift of the leg, along a line that doesn't represent the contact).

But it's passing too, and in motion I find it really jarring. I can have a defender on me, tap pass (on any PA), and complete the kick in time for the pass to be hit, where in reality the look over, the backlift of the leg etc. would take a long enough length of time for the defender to steal the ball. Again, it's more like the ball suddenly hits a magnetic line and instantly moves off to the target with no acceleration. Until it hits the target, then instantly stops.

romagnoli said:
I don't want to open that debate up again but it wasn't enough that the shots would miss, it's that they'd miss narrowly all the time rather than ballooning / scuffing etc.
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Oops. Think I just did that. :D

romagnoli said:
In terms of it not making sense to you to switch to PA0 because your pass completion drops below the CPU's - isn't that the wrong measure of whether or not it improves the game?
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But I'm talking about the context. As I said at the end of the post, I'm not just saying "I'm crap at it so I don't want to do it", I'm saying that it doesn't represent player quality, and that (purely for me personally) isn't what I'm after:

Total freedom doesn't equal realism if you're aiming for each player to perform like their real counterpart (and that is the entire point, to me - what's the point in playing a Master League and buying/selling players, otherwise).
 
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piccolo_bsc said:
I've tried PA0 3 times in the demo and every time i switched back after one half. It's just too frustrating for me, this is where 20 years of assisted controls on PES and FIFA backfire i guess.
I couldn't string 5 passes together, probably because i'm not used to precisely aim with the stick?! Any ideas to get used to it quicker or do i just have to bear with the hard part?
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I wrote something about Steep learning curves.
Practice!
What separate this game (Pes) from the other game (I think,only have it up to 16) is the training ground,where you can perfect your game,without the pressure of a competitive game.
Not meant to be a comparison to FIFA,just a tip.
Practice!!!
 
piccolo_bsc said:
I've tried PA0 3 times in the demo and every time i switched back after one half. It's just too frustrating for me, this is where 20 years of assisted controls on PES and FIFA backfire i guess.
I couldn't string 5 passes together, probably because i'm not used to precisely aim with the stick?! Any ideas to get used to it quicker or do i just have to bear with the hard part?
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Best tip I'd say is to turn the difficulty down, play possession play so you get your pass count way up, and don't ever switch the controls back otherwise you'll never tune into it. Use L2 and the arrow a lot too to start with, just for the visual aid.
 
romagnoli said:
Best tip I'd say is to turn the difficulty down, play possession play so you get your pass count way up, and don't ever switch the controls back otherwise you'll never tune into it. Use L2 and the arrow a lot too to start with, just for the visual aid.
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Thanks man, i will definitly try it out. Sounds like a good idea to learn it.
Also thanks to rockstrongo, never thought about using the training mode.
 
piccolo_bsc said:
I've tried PA0 3 times in the demo and every time i switched back after one half. It's just too frustrating for me, this is where 20 years of assisted controls on PES and FIFA backfire i guess.
I couldn't string 5 passes together, probably because i'm not used to precisely aim with the stick?! Any ideas to get used to it quicker or do i just have to bear with the hard part?
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maybe its not your skill at the sticks thats causing your frustration. i see a lot of friends (mostly EA fans) trying to play manual at my place and rush a lot. i always say to them: "take your time, try playing soccer like we do with our local club, be patient, dont rush it, in real life you dont sprint all the time..."
one guy just couldnt stop playing like he used to in the past. i was not sprinting the whole match then and he was always late or to fast running at my player... little move, little turn... and he was running to nowhere... or hacking me down with sliding tackles. plenty of free kicks i had that game, made 2 of them! :D
one other friend of mine (pro club player in FIFA) adapted very fast and well. after 2 matches we had some fun. he was playing perfect short passes on manual and a lot of short lobbed crosses (his habbits came trough i guess ;) ) from jsut outside the penalty area. but again, we had fun when he was not rushing so much. take you time... play around the opponent and youll see how you have more time to place more accurate passes. thats what helps me a lot.
when i get chaotic and hectic (mostly when im going to loose)... i tend to loose that calm... trust me, i know what you talking about and i'm far away from beeing a perfect player myself.
maybe this will help you. maybe you watch my latest video so see what i mean...

i know, its not what most people are looking for in a video game about soccer. but i do. i like the pace, the build up, taking my time... scores and wins are second to me!

just my 2 cents... :D
 
Goodvibe Stranger said:
Passing stats,top player pa0.
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Assuming you're the home team?

Genuine question to PA0 guys - I get the thrill of being given full control and doing great things that the AI has given you no assistance with, but say that Adam turned around tomorrow and said that it was truly full-manual and passing/shooting attributes didn't have any effect.

How many of you would feel no differently, because you play that way so that you know it was 100% your input and therefore you deserved the completed pass/goal - and how many would feel disappointed because all players are essentially the same in terms of technical ability, and therefore in something like the Master League, you'd only buy/sell players based on positioning/physical stats?

I honestly see and understand both sides of the fence, even though I know I'm firmly a PA1 man.
 
Chris Davies said:
Assuming you're the home team?

Genuine question to PA0 guys - I get the thrill of being given full control and doing great things that the AI has given you no assistance with, but say that Adam turned around tomorrow and said that it was truly full-manual and passing/shooting attributes didn't have any effect.

How many of you would feel no differently, because you play that way so that you know it was 100% your input and therefore you deserved the completed pass/goal - and how many would feel disappointed because all players are essentially the same in terms of technical ability, and therefore in something like the Master League, you'd only buy/sell players based on positioning/physical stats?

I honestly see and understand both sides of the fence, even though I know I'm firmly a PA1 man.
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Happy to upload the PS4 capture of the the half and me playing as boca using pa0.

To answer your question pa0 is not manual there's a level of assistance,or attributes kicking in.Boca do not have the accuracy of Barca,you can visibly feel and see the difference playing pa0,not placebo or a mind trick.
 
tomj said:
You didn't have a single shot in the first half? Not even a punt for 40 yards? :CONFUSE:
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I'm so used to the Xbox one demo and was getting in my groove on the PS4 pad.Just enjoy working the ball and fine tuning my passing.

I'm a possession player and those on the beta probably hated my ball retention and how I'm always playing long and lofting passes..Some on here may remember..I'm not strictly a ground passer..My mates hate it.
 
Chris Davies said:
Assuming you're the home team?

Genuine question to PA0 guys - I get the thrill of being given full control and doing great things that the AI has given you no assistance with, but say that Adam turned around tomorrow and said that it was truly full-manual and passing/shooting attributes didn't have any effect.

How many of you would feel no differently, because you play that way so that you know it was 100% your input and therefore you deserved the completed pass/goal - and how many would feel disappointed because all players are essentially the same in terms of technical ability, and therefore in something like the Master League, you'd only buy/sell players based on positioning/physical stats?

I honestly see and understand both sides of the fence, even though I know I'm firmly a PA1 man.
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But it´s not. At least I don´t feel like I have full control! I nail way more passes than before on other editions, I really feel PA0 is easier this year, and you can actually feel the diference between average players and top players. There´s an error window for each player I believe... for an average player you have a 10% error margin for example, and for a top player you have a 30% margin.

I just use PA0 because it makes it more challenging for me, it makes me play slower, and think about what I need to do... on assisted I really don´t care, I keep smashing the pass button and end up with lot´s of posession, even though it doesn´t mean I´ll win. It´s about the feel for me. I like it, but for who doesn´t, should stay with PA1, 2 or 3, whatever makes you enjoy the game.
 
I think one of the problem of post PS2 pes games is that the pitch started becoming bigger and bigger. These days it is so huge players are all so far away from each other that there are no midfield battle.

Arcade defending and game on autopilot even on 0 assistance are the other 2 issues.

I just can't enjoy this game anymore.
 
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"Potential", "few month",... hm...
 
ISS1970 said:
I think one of the problem of post PS2 pes games is that the pitch started becoming bigger and bigger. These days it is so huge players are all so far away from each other that there are no midfield battle.

Arcade defending and game on autopilot even on 0 assistance are the other 2 issues.

I just can't enjoy this game anymore.
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Understand and agree on a lot pal,but not all,just played a game on Pes 15,which has very tight defending from the CPU,I think it's a matter of creating tons of offensive little deals,and making football games more and more attacking happy that they forget proper defence
 
PES94 said:
Adam just said "Hey guys, quick update. Team are testing something to increase fouls. Potential patch coming in a few months. Lots of testing taking place"
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So a system that has been broken for years "might" get patched in a few months?

I was prepared to see if the day 1 patch would adjust this and the shooting, then I'd give it a fair chance. I'll wait for next year.
 
PES94 said:
Adam just said "Hey guys, quick update. Team are testing something to increase fouls. Potential patch coming in a few months. Lots of testing taking place"
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Oh just a few months??

Really fed up with konami's ineptitude towards a game many of us have poured sweat (editing), time and money into year after year.

Edit: just read Adam tweet again. Says 'potential' patch so it's not even definite!

I can't play anymore Master League seasons getting awarded 0 penalties all season.

It makes me so sad how good this game could be but is absolutely ruined by game breaking flaws

in the old days, we would put up with having to edit game, terrible soundtrack and boring commentary as it didn't matter....the gameplay was so so soooo good!!

Konami can't point to that anymore though..read the replies to Adams tweet and so many people are really fed up now

konami treat us like mugs and behave as if we are not intelligent

Adams sarcastic replies to fans who buy the game disgust me as well. If we aren't praising the game to the high heavens then he has an attitude.

It's amateur hour @ konami, it really is.
 
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rockstrongo said:
Understand and agree on a lot pal,but not all,just played a game on Pes 15,which has very tight defending from the CPU,I think it's a matter of creating tons of offensive little deals,and making football games more and more attacking happy that they forget proper defence
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I live in the midfield it's the fabric of my game and how I've always played pes and ISS beforehand.

Maybe people's approach but it's one of the things that shines for me..I guess it boils down to how you look at it,playing it the old way or some folk expecting the game to be how they want.

You can't control and play retention football without a midfield..Yet another example of people not seeing things that are clearly there.You have to discover the Pandora's box.

A open mind is a healthy one imo..looking at it from the same angle that has shackled football games for years springs to mind(not directed at you btw,me and you have the same values.Or anyone else,just generally).
 
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