PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

this is my suggestion about shooting (we need a method about passing too, but this one is about shooting)

here is an idea:
we can have an average between manual and basic shooting based of player stats. I explain that ...
I assume input direction (current manual shooting) as Input
and assume fully assisted direction (best and most dangerous point to shot (how about 20cm from post?) ... or something that is almost close to current basic shooting for 99 accuracy stats player) as Assisted
and assume my suggested output as Output

we have an accuracy stats from 40 to 99 (we assume 100 as a perfection which no player can have that)
first, let me explain the method for a middle range player with 70 shot accuracy.
the Output should be in the middle of Input and Assisted. (a random output in the area that I showed by arc ... I will explain the logic of calculating length of that arc)
(that was for middle range player stats, 70)
for player with 40 shot accuracy, random area is around to Input.
for player with 100 shot accuracy, random area is around to Assisted. (I said 100 but I meant 99 ... 100 is only for calculation and programming ... no player has 100 shot accuracy in game)

indeed: b=a(100-stats)/60 ... (unit: degree)
b: the angle between Input and Assisted
a: the angle between Output and Assisted

(in this case: a=90,accuracy stats=70 ... so b=90(100-70)/60 ... so b=45 degree)
now we only need length of arc (unit:degree) to recognize which area should be span of random result

footballfield2.jpg



the length of arc of random area could be: arc=(a/3)+(100-stats) ... (unit:degree)
(in this case: a=90,accuracy stats=70 ... so arc=(90/3)+(100-70) ... arc=30+30=60 degree)
(in this case all of random area is out of goal and the shot can't go to goal at all, because Input is very bad direction)

then better Input(more close to danger area=more close to Assist) will result smaller random area
also better accuracy stats will result smaller random area (and more close to perfect point)

if we assume 20cm from post as perfect point (I called it Assisted), then there is two perfect point for shooting, the game can choose the close one (to Input direction) for calculating.
the formula can be applied for every single direction (including middle of goal direction, and the formula can tend it to near post based on calculated random area)

numbers in my suggested formula can be adjusted a bit, but I think they are fair numbers.

about height of shot variety: I think it only need to be more sensitive based on shot gauge bar.

the same method can be calculated for heading by heading stats.

I suggest it to be default, but if no, at least it can be an option in addition to (basic/advance/manual).
I think it shouldn't be hard to programming this way.
 
pitch side 4 - 0 - 10 is pretty nice.

you know if we all worked together on player abilities / statistics we could really improve this game. These done right can make shooting passing and defending even better. Plus stud players will be more noticeable. A thread like a FIFA slider thread but for PES with abilities / statistics adjustments. Might work for the better. Good :! or Not?
 
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Finally got round to playing the demo, I was genuinely a bit worried considering the posts in this thread and the overall vibe but regardless I was always going to play it and I had a brilliant first few games. Pace felt fine, didn't feel to back and forth but definitely room for improvement. I think the key area that needs to be considered is that we cannot change the tactics for teams and that is massively having an impact.

When I played as Liverpool vs. Inter, Liverpool's default setup was hug the touchline, deep defensive line, passing is set to short and support is incredibly close etc. It ends up with Liverpool at times trying to pass it out of their own 18 yard box when you're pressed high on them. Same with when you look at Dortmund, they're set to counterattack but also long passes, hug the touchline etc.

Konami have just got the tactics wrong for a lot of teams, for the demo they should have just left the advanced instructions off by default and instead let us have a play around with tactics for both teams.

I've found shooting to be fine, drew my first game 0-0, won 2-0 in my second, 1-0 in my third, 3-1 and then my final game last night was a 2-2 draw. I've not had too many absolute thunderbolts fly into the top corner and I've seen plenty of low shots skim past the post too.


There's been a decent amount of fouls, nothing compared to how accurate I think FIFA does it but every game so far has seen at least one yellow card for the opposition. The more I played it the more I was getting excited for playing with my teams - playing a Master League / League season with Chelsea or playing an international cup or European cup with England or Belgium. It genuinely did excite me which I guess is something the demo should do.

Of course there are areas to improve on but I enjoyed my first taster - looking forward to the full game now. I think it's important that we don't overplay the demo - I spent a lot of time playing the Call of Duty: WWII beta last weekend and because of the limited weapons, mapset and modes you can very easily find frustrations. The same applies to the PES demo - we only have a few teams, 2 stadiums and no ability to change tactics and see how things work that way.

It's 10 days until PES launches in the US, 12 until Europe - I'm really looking forward to it.
 
The game in his whole conception is not the problem for me, i like this demo, and i've managed to defend correctly, the same way i defend in PES 2017...
But the AI difficulty is way too easy to pass, it's like day and night VS PES 2017, and i play aswell manual or default.
You need to play manual instead assisted (i don't like the term, prefers "by default") and the game will be harder" is not an argument at all.

In PES 2017 i've played a ML, and it was hard sometimes to score even with default configuration, AI defenders moved well, cutting the line, and way more agressive.
On PES 2018, there's too much space, too easy even on superstar. It's like it's me to decide when i score or not...

So i think PES 2018 is a good 1 vs 1 game against human, but vs the CPU, the difficulty level is far, far from PES 2017.
Playing on Superstar against is like playing on Professionnal or Normal on PES 2017... I really liked the challenge of the 2017 version, which is not on the upcoming one.

One other thing: the CPU wasn't that challenging on Exhibition match than he was on offline Cup/League/ML etc., but not as easy as PES 2018 DEMO purpose.

I really like the game flow, even more than all previous PES in all area, and it's not shooting which is the problem for me when i thinked it should be the case after playing the Beta... But another thing that i didn't saw coming in my face
 
So I didn't like t at first and in fact, I still prefer PES 2017 (unfair comparison though at this point, since it's only a demo). Yesterday though, it clicked - I found myself unable to put it down. I've think i've simply adjusted to the new pace of the game and the little game play tweaks.

The major concerns so far are:

- CPU use the same attacking outlets every time (long pass to wide forwards). This is the big one for me as a Master League player - there is no variety, something that both 2016 and 2017 improved upon greatly and I expected it to be the same this year.

Now like others i'm convinced that this is due to the poorly set up game plans. The varied AI has been one of the best things about their game for a while and there i no way they would ruin that like this.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that this move was intentional in the demo because they know that they will likely pick up sales from the sale people they do each year and they are trying to steal some of those fans of the other game.
And do you know what? I wouldn't be surprised if it works. My first thought playing a few games of the demo was that my Fifa friends may finally take to this.

- Playing with the very best players may be a little too easy. Now i'm torn with this one. Playing with Messi for example feels amazing. It's incredible how easy it is to get past players and to an extent I absolutely love this. If I sign a player like Messi in my Master League then I want that sort of feeling - it makes the signing feel more worthwhile and improves my master league experience.

The problem is, that I think it may be a little too easy because of the defensive AI just as much it is the player's ability. At times it feels like they let me run straight past them.

It doesn't happen all the time, and if it is quite limited then I can handle it on the basis that 'players can switch off'. The problem is that I can take the ball with someone like Messi (and Mane, who I first noticed it with). Sprint diagonally from the wing and literally skip past players until I work a shot on goal.

- AI Fouls are too few. This is annoying, because 2017 had the most perfect sweet spot for the AI giving away fouls I have ever seen in a game.

I could probably go on and on, but i'll summarize with this:

In my eyes, at this point all they really needed to do with this game is improve elements the AI and how they approach games tactically, and small elements of the gameplay. Now it sounds like a lot but there was literally nothing major that needed improving from 2017 in my opinion, so it's such a shame that it seems like a step back with the only things I wanted improved.

On the other hand - for the last 2 years this games' mechanics have been the best gaming football experience I ever had and it looks like this year is no different. As long as these mechanics remain the same (especially as a manual player, which is still perfection and highly encouraged to anyone) then they can probably be counting me in each year.

Hell, they could have given me PES 2017 with roster updates and Master League tweaks (which I still hop we bloody get by the way!) and I would have paid full price.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've given the demo a decent amount of time, but I've just scored this goal (on Superstar) and without wanting to sound like a big ol' drama queen, I think I'm done.

This AI isn't going to be much fun in an ML, is it? (I'm Liverpool.)


I think it'll be great online, genuinely. The beta was brilliant online, more fun than any other football game I've played online.

But offline (and that's all I'm really interested in if I'm truthful to myself), if the gameplay is like this, well... It's not much fun.
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meh... ping ping ping.... tap shoot....goal!
 
I posted this on another forum the other day but I think it is worth adding my opinion here since there is plenty of discussion.

I actually think the AI are slightly more proficient in front of goal this year, they have score some nice long/mid-range shots and generally stick away clear cut chances. The problem is that they do not create too many chances overall because of their repetitive attacking patterns.

Plus, the defensive AI is poor, guys often are too concerned with running back into a set position that they allow the human player to pick up the ball and run 70 yards forward. They have no awareness of danger. Against human players this problem is mitigated somewhat as the human player always closes the man with the ball down, hence why the beta felt more balanced in this respect.

The game has no soul, it feels like a game devoid of any of the creativity, unpredictability, inventiveness, emotion, or satisfaction which exists in real football. I think this is due to the lack of player individuality, and the dull shooting and passing systems. Player individuality is not as pronounced as it should be, nearly every player has the same set of animations (and thus technical capabilities).

The shooting and passing is too guided even on manual; the trajectory is the same, always straight, always hit with pace. Additionally, every player has the same chance of making a mistake, because it is simply contingent on the human player making a mistake. There should be a greater chance of inaccuracy when passing the ball depending on the player who is passing it, same goes for shooting.

The game isn’t terrible, if it made adjustments in those areas it could be a good game. Another problem is the glacial pace that Konami seem to make improvements; when they do, it is usually cancelled out by something else that has been broken in the process. After 3 years of development time, people expected more.

PES needs its own identity, right now it looks they attempt to make the game as close to FIFA as possible and fail miserably. FIFA has a slick engine where every player has real, lifelike, fluid animations and PES tries to replicate that. As a result, every new animation they add, they fire it in without any regard for the context, resulting in Wes Morgan being able to pull off a backheel 25 yard pass with 100% accuracy. FIFA actually has a greater sense of player individuality now, by quite a distance, their traits and specialities actually feel unique. They kill off the great ML Online and rip off FIFA UT. It also feels like they tweak the gameplay to the competitive online gamers who want smooth, rapid end to end goal fests, and a game where both teams to have no discernible advantage over the other. That is what FIFA plays like online, and now PES. This is not a football simulation.

Go back to the basics Konami and build from there. Your priorities are all wrong.
 
dalybhoy said:
I posted this on another forum the other day but I think it is worth adding my opinion here since there is plenty of discussion.

I actually think the AI are slightly more proficient in front of goal this year, they have score some nice long/mid-range shots and generally stick away clear cut chances. The problem is that they do not create too many chances overall because of their repetitive attacking patterns.

Plus, the defensive AI is poor, guys often are too concerned with running back into a set position that they allow the human player to pick up the ball and run 70 yards forward. They have no awareness of danger. Against human players this problem is mitigated somewhat as the human player always closes the man with the ball down, hence why the beta felt more balanced in this respect.

The game has no soul, it feels like a game devoid of any of the creativity, unpredictability, inventiveness, emotion, or satisfaction which exists in real football. I think this is due to the lack of player individuality, and the dull shooting and passing systems. Player individuality is not as pronounced as it should be, nearly every player has the same set of animations (and thus technical capabilities).

The shooting and passing is too guided even on manual; the trajectory is the same, always straight, always hit with pace. Additionally, every player has the same chance of making a mistake, because it is simply contingent on the human player making a mistake. There should be a greater chance of inaccuracy when passing the ball depending on the player who is passing it, same goes for shooting.

The game isn’t terrible, if it made adjustments in those areas it could be a good game. Another problem is the glacial pace that Konami seem to make improvements; when they do, it is usually cancelled out by something else that has been broken in the process. After 3 years of development time, people expected more.

PES needs its own identity, right now it looks they attempt to make the game as close to FIFA as possible and fail miserably. FIFA has a slick engine where every player has real, lifelike, fluid animations and PES tries to replicate that. As a result, every new animation they add, they fire it in without any regard for the context, resulting in Wes Morgan being able to pull off a backheel 25 yard pass with 100% accuracy. FIFA actually has a greater sense of player individuality now, by quite a distance, their traits and specialities actually feel unique. They kill off the great ML Online and rip off FIFA UT. It also feels like they tweak the gameplay to the competitive online gamers who want smooth, rapid end to end goal fests, and a game where both teams to have no discernible advantage over the other. That is what FIFA plays like online, and now PES. This is not a football simulation.

Go back to the basics Konami and build from there. Your priorities are all wrong.
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Jesus, I think I'll ring the Samaritans.
 
I will try not to bother again playing and watching any demos of PES, everything is a working progress.

- "hey this looks this and this"
- "please wait until you play the demo"
- "hey the demo plays this and this"
- "this isnt the final product"

To me besides graphic wise vids and demos dont serve any purpose it seems.
The only thing got communicated this year properly towards the fans was the online beta. And it was a pretty bright idea from Konami to pull it off.

But demos? They mean nothing.
 
I can't remember who it was on here that first suggested the 'Pitchside' - 3 / 0 / 10 camera back on PES 2017 but I remember seeing someone using it and mentioning it in a video / screenshot. I was using the default camera on this demo but just swapped to that and it looks brilliant!

Edit: Just scored with Henderson using this camera angle so figured it was worth sharing as I was talking about it.

 
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Played a few games this morning. Changed the settings to FM passing, Professional level & basic shooting, Barca vs Liverpool. I always used to play on Superstar with PA1.

The difference was night and day. You had to think about every pass, it was methodical, patient and a refreshing change. Created some lovely moves which felt very rewarding. Was always a stat based player but since since its so easy to go end on PA1 and stats really don't mean as much anymore in PES, FM seems the way to go. Even on professional level it was a challenge. I still wanted to keep stat based on shooting so that is why I kept it basic. Shooting admittedly isn't where it should be but bar that was very much enjoyable. Haven't tried advanced shooting and not much interested in manual at the minute.

Will play a few more and see how it goes. Share your settings and see what different experiences you can produce. Assisted is just to assisted at any level I think and makes it limited on what kind of moves and passes you can create.
 
martyl2 said:
Played a few games this morning. Changed the settings to FM passing, Professional level & basic shooting, Barca vs Liverpool. I always used to play on Superstar with PA1.

The difference was night and day. You had to think about every pass, it was methodical, patient and a refreshing change. Created some lovely moves which felt very rewarding. Was always a stat based player but since since its so easy to go end on PA1 and stats really don't mean as much anymore in PES, FM seems the way to go. Even on professional level it was a challenge. I still wanted to keep stat based on shooting so that is why I kept it basic. Shooting admittedly isn't where it should be but bar that was very much enjoyable. Haven't tried advanced shooting and not much interested in manual at the minute.

Will play a few more and see how it goes. Share your settings and see what different experiences you can produce. Assisted is just to assisted at any level I think and makes it limited on what kind of moves and passes you can create.
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Sounds good man,always nice to see someone going from PA to manual and discover how different the game plays.
And professional has always been the best difficulty to play,even though I'm on TP on this and all other Pes games..
Would really recommend everyone to do that
 
Goodvibe Stranger said:
If you want to experience the demo at its best the xboxone is the platform.Im not saying the final game will better but on the one the code is slightly more polished and further down the road.Smoother gameplay,less clipping/glitching,with overall better colour saturation and smoothness.I also think the ai is better overall.

I'm in nirvana lads or lasses.It doesn't even matter to me if people want to slate the game because this is the pes I've been waiting for.

Can I also say konami were the first company back in the ISS era to pioneer freedom of control and movement and while pes was a 8 direction game on a grid,a lot of what ea introduced in 08 and since was copied from the ISS series of games.I just find it ironic that people say pes is trying to be FIFA(had to throw that in).

I really don't think there's any flies on this game and I'm positive come November the so called hardcore will be singing this games praises,or after they have got over all the gloss and presentation the other game seems focused on and realise it's still the same tired game.

See you there.
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That something adam bhatti would say
 
Goodvibe Stranger said:
When I joined I posted a link to my Facebook and my first name is Steve.Im 44 and was playing football games long before Adam.Im also someone like many on here that was feasting on konami's footballing sap well before PES.

No conspiracies,just a hardcore player that also plays the other game.So I have no bias.

I'm not one of assisted crowd though and prefer direct control.Fast hands and a quick mind.

I'm positive because I can play the demo on superstar and top player under manual conditions and still keep clean sheets and contain the cpu.Ive clicked,i have complete control of the game and can completely dictate my playing style.

It's wonderful and something neither game has given me before.
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Playing on Manual, what are your thoughts in regards to passing and shooting, do you feel those areas are effected by stats
 
adam sayed superstar is not highest level...
he promised to solve problem with AI
and said its about advanced instructions that is off in demo and was on in beta...
and also he sayed 3new partner ship before lunch ..
we are waiting
hope to solve all problem with new cpu level like legendery
i hope so
 
Not impressed with the demo at all. There was nowhere near enough fouls in 2017 but instead of Konami fixing it there's even less this year. Fouls ,free kicks and penalties are part of the game. If they removed throw ins would people still be happy?
This could have been the greatest football game ever and it looks lovely on my PS4 Pro but for me anyway the lack of fouls and free kicks is a total game breaker.
I just can't understand why Konami doesn't listen to feedback. Surely its in their interest to improve the game and get more sales.
 
Also interesting to see Adam admit that the advanced instructions are overriding the AI tactically and causing issues, he also says that in the full game they will be switched off by default. so surely that means if we decide to turn them on for the AI we will have the same mess? but if we leave them switched off, the AI will be completely rigid... bah

https://twitter.com/Adam_Bhatti/status/903967111520903170
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
Playing on Manual, what are your thoughts in regards to passing and shooting, do you feel those areas are effected by stats
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Yes.Its a fine line but stats are more then prevalent.Individuality is there in spades.I don't know how well it will transcend down to the lesser sides,but for me even colo colo have a personality.

I don't think manual passing Is some mountain and in my mind the game suits and is designed to be played this way.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Well i guess just dont use such as deep defensive line with defensive line 10 perhaps?
But Barca could have Tiki-Taka turned on.
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they way i always interpreted the Advanced instructions were, if i had set my defensive line to 15 but say during the game i went 1-0 up with 5 mins to go, i could set my 'deep defensive line' advanced instruction to override my default value of 15. So it would still be a valid case to use that setup. as long as it wasn't for 90 minutes

Thinking about it, maybe I am misinterpreting what Adam meant, maybe in the demo ALL the advanced instructions for each team are switched on at once, rather than used when necessary? that would explain things better
 
Not really feeling the demo at the moment, not given it a fair shake though to be honest, I'll be buying the game anyway and I am confident that it will give me many great gaming moments like 2017 has.

One tiny thing, hardly a big deal, but why change the two lower/higher attack levels to the same color (blue and red) seems pointless and you may need an extra glance at the screen to determine the opponent's attack level. Unless they mean the levels are the same in the demo?

If not that, it reminds me of the utterly baffling color change of the form arrows back when they did that, for no reason.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
just posted it as i came across it, it wasn't anything really. But he has an opinion like all of us. Some love this some don't and some are stuck in the middle like me.
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Get what you mean pal,although he had a few valid points,some weren't
Pretty much like all of us.
Not intended to jump at you
 
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