PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[curdstar]

Curd I am going to see if I can get a video of lack of fouls being called. Even though there are a few other issues I feel like this is the easiest the can be addressed via patch if they choose to go this route of even addressing it because it seems like the collision system isn't working as intended. It seems like a dice roll on when ref will call them.

No problem. What I will say is think beyond the current system in place or a patch. Please hit me up with videos but I'll need some text and analytical comment too.

PM's welcome.

 

[bluewomble88]

Dude, with respect that isn't really an idea or feedback, but a question. It isn't an interview but a chance for you and the rest to put your minds at work on one aspect of the game and come up with ideas. They want to hear more on how mechanics and alike can see fouling naturally increase. In other words, they would like to hear peoples grander solutions that are not centered round simply hitting some imaginary "increase fouls and penalties" button in the code.

There is no rush because it is about trying to find a grander, yet more natural solution. Have a think about it and come back to me, but please try to stick to how I have asked it is presented.

You have an opportunity here. Don't waste it with a question.

I'm not having a go, Ameppe. I want to hear what you have to say and I'm just looking to offer some guidance with this reply.

Well the obvious answer is to code the damn game properly so that fouls actually lead to free kicks, penalties etc. It's not hard to turn the initial question into a solution.

I've played a few games of this and this is my feeling...

+ Graphics and animations are, overall, very good.
+ The player movement and feeling of inertia is pretty spot on. There is a decent weight to the bodies too.
+ The catch up bug seems to have been squashed.

- Floaty keepers all over the place. Just fix this already. How hard can it be?
- In my first game, I attempted 6 shots on target and every single one was a straight, soulless arrow. The positioning of my player, his ability, the speed of approach to the ball counted for nothing. The same boring, repetitive shots over and over and over.
- AI on Superstar level is so robotic. Ultra-accurate first time passes, the same approach play (lofted to the wing then cutting in), and again the same types of shots at goal.
- Waaaayy too much space for wingers and no midfield play.
- The final nail in the coffin: absolutely no urgency from anyone on the pitch. Tackles, loose balls, counter attacks - every player animates at the same speed in recoveries, sliding in, passing etc. If a defender loses out to an attacker in the air near the box, I expect him to scramble to his feet and lunge towards the ball and attempt to disrupt play. This just isn't possible. The shots, passes, flicks, saves, jumps all happen at the same speed every time. It's like watching snooker where all the balls move around the table at the same speed no matter how hard they get hit.

I had some hopes for this, I really did. Despite some minor improvements, I think, overall, this is a worse product than 2017 because of the awful negatives that have allowed through yet another year later.

I'm done with PES until there is a change in direction.

 

[Topaz]

When is the demo?

 

[Lons]

I expected this from you and expect similar from a few certain others. Whatever.

Experience with Mr Batti for years on WENB.

 

[curdstar]

I can't see how i can tell them how to increase fouls. My only idea is to make referees less lenient, because in my opinion there are already enough situations when the referee could call a foul but he doesn't.

Anyway they are the developers, not me. Don't want to be rude, that's just the truth.

Bit disappointed mate, but fair enough. Nothing more I can add.

 

[curdstar]

Experience with Mr Batti for years on WENB.

Whatever.

 

[curdstar]

Well the obvious answer is to code the damn game properly so that fouls actually lead to free kicks, penalties etc. It's not hard to turn the initial question into a solution.

I've played a few games of this and this is my feeling...

+ Graphics and animations are, overall, very good.
+ The player movement and feeling of inertia is pretty spot on. There is a decent weight to the bodies too.
+ The catch up bug seems to have been squashed.

- Floaty keepers all over the place. Just fix this already. How hard can it be?
- In my first game, I attempted 6 shots on target and every single one was a straight, soulless arrow. The positioning of my player, his ability, the speed of approach to the ball counted for nothing. The same boring, repetitive shots over and over and over.
- AI on Superstar level is so robotic. Ultra-accurate first time passes, the same approach play (lofted to the wing then cutting in), and again the same types of shots at goal.
- Waaaayy too much space for wingers and no midfield play.
- The final nail in the coffin: absolutely no urgency from anyone on the pitch. Tackles, loose balls, counter attacks - every player animates at the same speed in recoveries, sliding in, passing etc. If a defender loses out to an attacker in the air near the box, I expect him to scramble to his feet and lunge towards the ball and attempt to disrupt play. This just isn't possible. The shots, passes, flicks, saves, jumps all happen at the same speed every time. It's like watching snooker where all the balls move around the table at the same speed no matter how hard they get hit.

I had some hopes for this, I really did. Despite some minor improvements, I think, overall, this is a worse product than 2017 because of the awful negatives that have allowed through yet another year later.

I'm done with PES until there is a change in direction.

Read to "damn"

Thanks for your input, mate. Guess we won't be hearing you complaining about quality of feedback any longer?

Had your chance. Okay. Fine.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

No weight? Well, no. There is a distinct feeling of weight to different players. Messi is so easy to move while defenders in general feel slow to turn. Why do you feel the need to exaggerate things? Saying there is no weight to players is just a lie. That is not a personal opinion, that is a fact. Pes 2018 demo (even pes 2017) have different players having different weight and reaction to input.

Pace is the same as beta, with the difference that beta was influenced by server that made everything slower that it should have been. The last few days of beta when they made some server testing the pace became awfully fast. I'm really happy it's not that fast.

Continuing this morning argument i can tell you that one of my first goal scored in this demo was with auto shielding. It was Icardi that managed to shield the ball, escape the defender and shoot. I wish i would have saved it to show you how autoshielding is there and working as intended.



It seems like you should try to play it instead of trying to validate your negative opinion as the one truth. This demo has been out for few hours and you are already saying it's dead.

Honestly i only see a whole lot of overreactions from people saying that beta was amazing and this demo is horrible. If i didn't play the beta i would have been worried, but thankfully i played it and i know that it's not the case.

Taking my joke comment seriously where i put two smileys as well rather quoting the other 3-4 where im actually talking about the game's aspects really, why?

And say that i have a negative approach here.

 

[rockstrongo]

I think the fouls are a different issue this year..they were lacking in 17 but I did get some , probably averaged 2-3 per game (no pens though) ..part of the issue was the advantage rule ..the ref was seeing the foul but playing advantage way to quickly..in 18 im just not seeing anything , no slide tackles no reg aknowloging a foul and playing advantage the AI is just too stand off ish..theyve implanted this new free kick and penalty system and unless this is fixed as a single player I'm not going to see it..how can this get passed all the play testers and they say it's acceptable ..you would think at some point someone would say hold on second I've had 20 odd games and not had a free kick

I get an ok amount on 17, but you're spot on about the advantage rule being played out by the ref to quickly

 

[curdstar]

N

I think the fouls are a different issue this year..they were lacking in 17 but I did get some , probably averaged 2-3 per game (no pens though) ..part of the issue was the advantage rule ..the ref was seeing the foul but playing advantage way to quickly..in 18 im just not seeing anything , no slide tackles no reg aknowloging a foul and playing advantage the AI is just too stand off ish..theyve implanted this new free kick and penalty system and unless this is fixed as a single player I'm not going to see it..how can this get passed all the play testers and they say it's acceptable ..you would think at some point someone would say hold on second I've had 20 odd games and not had a free kick

Not sure what I am meant to do with this, but thanks.

 

[Ameppe]

Bit disappointed mate, but fair enough. Nothing more I can add.

I told you, don't really know how they could solve the issue. I only know i don't like playing a match with an average of 1-2 fouls at best.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

Report back please, this is probably the only thing that would make me play manual passing again (and it didn't work that way in 2017)!

i played 4 games on full manual or no assists. Barca vs Inter and Liverpool vs Dortmund. AI never misplaced a single pass. 50 yard bombs accurate to chest or foot.

 

[Ameppe]

Taking my joke comment seriously where i put two smileys as well rather quoting the other 3-4 where im actually talking about the game's aspects really, why?

And say that i have a negative approach here.

I just read the last page, can't really go pages later to read everyone complaining how awful this demo is.
Well, if you gave your honest opinion before what's the point of the post i quoted?

 

[curdstar]

I get an ok amount on 17, but you're spot on about the advantage rule being played out by the ref to quickly

Okay, this is a good one and apologies to @hitmanuk Sorry dude, but this is what I am talking about. Rocko makes the point without it being hidden in amongst critiques of the developers who, let's be honest, have played far more PES 2018 than any of us have currently. It is actually a very good observation if it holds true. Taken on board.

 

[curdstar]

I told you, don't really know how they could solve the issue. I only know i don't like playing a match with an average of 1-2 fouls at best.

Think outside the box. Don't think completely about the refs and collisions, but the game round it. There have been some things already posted about things people are claiming to be in the game currently that potentially impacts foul count.

But again, I respect your position even if I don't agree with it.

 

[rockstrongo]

Fouling hasn't been an issue for me on 17,fewer on 18 so far,but it's a demo!
But hopefully,and compared to the demo of 17 and the finished product,the final product were more,much more aggressive=more fouls.
Penalties on 16-17,horrible and non existing.
Like I said,hopefully fouls will be like 17 or better
I play 20 min games btw on 17,10 on 18 demo

 

[rockstrongo]

Okay, this is a good one and apologies to @hitmanuk Sorry dude, but this is what I am talking about. Rocko makes the point without it being hidden in amongst critiques of the developers who, let's be honest, have played far more PES 2018 than any of us have currently. It is actually a very good observation if it holds true. Taken on board.

Cheers Curdstar
Yeah criticism should be straight fw,not hidden into Pes 5 comparisons
I also think,written in my recent post,a demo is a demo,no "scripting" less aggressive,tactics hasn't been applied fully,your own tactics hasn't been applied fully on either,so the cpu plays less vs your strategy,more vanilla.
Also,a 10 min demo says very little to me when it comes to fouling since I play 20 min.
That makes a huge difference in gameplay and how th cpu reacts,how your players reacts due to their fatigue.
A shitload of parameters can't be measured when playing "vanilla" 10 min games.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

I just read the last page, can't really go pages later to read everyone complaining how awful this demo is.
Well, if you gave your honest opinion before what's the point of the post i quoted?

Just to have a laugh at least after we can not properly test this demo because of the locked and wrong tactics?

Pros:
- graphic looks great (once i get the PC version i can enjoy it)
- some really neat new animations
- game pace spot on
- player's weight
- basic shooting is a bit better (still could have more error and variety for my taste)
- new spot kick tactics
- no guide dots!

Cons:
- AI on TP and S is very robotic and precise and its doing the same thing
- keeper have some floaty animations and sticky gloves for shots he should punch but in the same time very easy, very slow balls are punched a side. totally takes me out
- chip shot is OP
- passing still has no error, only interceptions you can see
- tactics are all wrong including the advanced instructions, destroying the player position and possibly a decent game of footy (but we arent sure if thats the problem since everything is locked under the tactics and you can not change the cpu tactics at all as well)

I'll try to raise this issue for all the editors to review their team tactics (teams in live update) after the game is out so they indeed can test what value what effect has on their team on the pitch.

fair enough?

 

[Ameppe]

Think outside the box. Don't think completely about the refs and collisions, but the game round it. There have been some things already posted about things people are claiming to be in the game currently that potentially impacts foul count.

But again, I respect your position even if I don't agree with it.

I agree with the idea posted by @hitmanuk about the referee giving advantage rule too quickly.

If you say think in general, i believe there is a lack of CPU aggressiveness,i feel like they only make a foul when you dribble past them, there are little to no contact fouls. Maybe making CPU more aggressive could be a solution?

Or they could create an agressiveness stat for every player to differentiate players more prone to make fouls compared to the least aggressive players...

 

[rammeal]

No problem. What I will say is think beyond the current system in place or a patch. Please hit me up with videos but I'll need some text and analytical comment too.

PM's welcome.

Will do because it is definitely hard to explain without visual representation. If I get the time what I hope to show to show is the ref not giving fouls when a defender excessively impedes a player from proceeding with his dribble. Some cases the defender will miss the ball with a standing tackle , the player goes down and no call which I feel like most happen inside the penalty box. I feel like this would be okay if you could chalk it down to maybe the ref missed the call but for something like this to occur more often than not in the 10 min demo is a little concerning. But I will say this, I am in one of the camps who was happy with the foul amount in PES 17, it is flawed but I saw enough fouls called in my 20 min ML matches to enjoy the game although I would have loved to see more penalties called.

I know KONAMI is looking the strike the right balance between how many fouls you see in a 10 min match and you have to take into the account of peoples play style. So far in my 10 matches I have seen more than a handful of fouls, I have conceded a penalty, scored a free kick and also got to test out the new Long Free kick set pieces. What I feel like needs to really be addressed is the variety of fouls that occur. Most of them seem to happen when a player dives in or a defender hits a player in the face with their arm. I feel like most of the penalties I have won and conceded have happened with the latter especially in PES 17 and seem to still happen this year as well. While KONAMI has added mid air collisions leading to fouls I would love to see fouls from players being pulled back by their shirts or even being grabbed. I am will to wait until the final game arrives to really give a better in depth because there are many other aspects that play in to lack of fouls especially spacing but I feel like we need to see some more physical play in PES, the new shielding mechanic does give me some hope though.

 

[h3li0]

@curdstar i have been reading your continuous posts asking everybody who has a problem with something in the Game to show you vídeos etc etc.

So I will ask you with all respect, can you show us all a vídeo of you playing superstar, and then show us the stats at the end?

Its not as if its only me or 2 or 3 persons questioning the blatant lack of fouls...

Its not just one or two people complaining about the dull shooting, just have a look at the questionare @Nico from WENB put up, is every body wrong? Its not rubish as some try to make but its dull, repetitive and soulless. Add to that that everyone can make the same type of shoots, and passes and to top that the positioning of teams and the mess of advanced tactics and you have the perfect combination for a unrewarding game.

My hope its online will be at least as good has the beta, that despite shooting was pretty good. I will try to save some vídeo tonight of the problems I have with shooting (by the way i play on Advanced shooting)

 

[rockstrongo]

But,continuing from my last post.
I love this,and recent game from konami.
I also love the fact,no matter what people think of Adam,the fact that you can contact him directly with concerns and questions,it's unheard of,at least to my knowledge from other companies.

I had a question regarding the Xbox one edition,tweeted Adam,got a straight answer five minutes later.
Meant a lot to me.
Not 100% Pes 18 demo related,sorry if it's taken the wrong way

 

[bluewomble88]

Read to "damn"

Thanks for your input, mate. Guess we won't be hearing you complaining about quality of feedback any longer?

Had your chance. Okay. Fine.

Wow. You really are trying to turn this into some kind of dick-waving competition. Ok, fine, I'll bite.
I couldn't care less if you read my post. I care even less that you claim to be friends with Bhatti. He has virtually no say in the development of the game, you even less so.

You try to proclaim holier-than-thou that you will only entertain proposed solutions in order to pass them on. What a pathetic stance to take. No one here codes computer games to the level of a major developer. No one has access to the source code nor can they put forward specific alterations that Konami can copy and paste to make it work. What is your problem here? Numerous people pointing out the shots are lifeless and too straight, whilst the keepers float through the air is enough. You want a solution, not a complaint? Fine - adopt FIFA's shooting mechanics and remove the floaty code from keepers. Or does that not fit into your agenda?

 

[curdstar]

@curdstar i have been reading your continuous posts asking everybody who has a problem with something in the Game to show you vídeos etc etc.

So I will ask you with all respect, can you show us all a vídeo of you playing superstar, and then show us the stats at the end?

Its not as if its only me or 2 or 3 persons questioning the blatant lack of fouls...

Its not just one or two people complaining about the dull shooting, just have a look at the questionare @Nico from WENB put up, is every body wrong? Its not rubish as some try to make but its dull, repetitive and soulless. Add to that that everyone can make the same type of shoots, and passes and to top that the positioning of teams and the mess of advanced tactics and you have the perfect combination for a unrewarding game.

My hope its online will be at least as good has the beta, that despite shooting was pretty good. I will try to save some vídeo tonight of the problems I have with shooting (by the way i play on Advanced shooting)

Might well do that. Is there a demo video thread now live? I'll look to post in there and tag you.

 

[curdstar]

Wow. You really are trying to turn this into some kind of dick-waving competition. Ok, fine, I'll bite.
I couldn't care less if you read my post. I care even less that you claim to be friends with Bhatti. He has virtually no say in the development of the game, you even less so.

You try to proclaim holier-than-thou that you will only entertain proposed solutions in order to pass them on. What a pathetic stance to take. No one here codes computer games to the level of a major developer. No one has access to the source code nor can they put forward specific alterations that Konami can copy and paste to make it work. What is your problem here? Numerous people pointing out the shots are lifeless and too straight, whilst the keepers float through the air is enough. You want a solution, or a complaint? Fine - adopt FIFA's shooting mechanics and remove the floaty code from keepers. Or does that not fit into your agenda?

It actually doesn't fit into my "agenda" because you are answering a question I didn't ask for feedback on.

Conversation over on this one with you, dude.

@Chris Davies @superleeds1 @Lami Any objections to me moving my question/request into its own seperate thread and stickied in the PES section? Thanks in advance for any response.

 

[superleeds1]

I expected this from you and expect similar from a few certain others. Whatever.

Right Curdstar, once again You are making this personal for people. YOUR the one with 2 infraction points against Your name.
The ice is thin, very thin.

 

[Andy_1984]

Tried the demo on superstar and top player. Im not going to get into the pes is great or pes is rubbish argument but i just think its not for me anymore. its been like that since after pes 6 for me so no big deal.

 

[curdstar]

A

@curdstar i have been reading your continuous posts asking everybody who has a problem with something in the Game to show you vídeos etc etc.

So I will ask you with all respect, can you show us all a vídeo of you playing superstar, and then show us the stats at the end?

Its not as if its only me or 2 or 3 persons questioning the blatant lack of fouls...

Its not just one or two people complaining about the dull shooting, just have a look at the questionare @Nico from WENB put up, is every body wrong? Its not rubish as some try to make but its dull, repetitive and soulless. Add to that that everyone can make the same type of shoots, and passes and to top that the positioning of teams and the mess of advanced tactics and you have the perfect combination for a unrewarding game.

My hope its online will be at least as good has the beta, that despite shooting was pretty good. I will try to save some vídeo tonight of the problems I have with shooting (by the way i play on Advanced shooting)

Also dude, I am not questioning those who are saying there is a lack of fouls. I am embracing those comments and asking for detailed ideas and just general thoughts on how it could be better. I'm not looking to prove anyone wrong. I am assuming they are right (within reason) and looking to work from there.

 

[shez]

I thought Adam was just a PR guy and had nothing to do with the development? and What are they gonna change before release date?

@curdstar But to support your efforts here are some suggestions:

Advantage rule should be disabled for a start
Def lines should be higher up the pitch
All games set to derby.

Also show him your legendary posts abusing people complaining about shooting problems maybe he'll give you something in return, A mug or a shirt or something (Just teasing)

 

[superleeds1]

It actually doesn't fit into my "agenda" because you are answering a question I didn't ask for feedback on.

Conversation over on this one with you, dude.

@Chris Davies @superleeds1 @Lami Any objections to me moving my question/request into its own seperate thread and stickied in the PES section? Thanks in advance for any response.

Yeah I object.You will end up with another battlefield needing moderation just as You are high maintenance here.