PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

bukowski said:
I really can see just few positive things in these videos apart from graphics....but I guess it depends on whether you like Pes2016 or not.
I consider it the worst footbal game ever. and this is just a pes2016.1.

Player's agility is so OP. There's no inertia in the movements. You are supposed to control 70/80/90 kg human being but i can't feel that. They turn around in a fraction of second, they skate on the pitch....it's embarassing to see. Now you can argue that's normal when you see players like Messi or Neymar but it's really not. They are still human being affected by normal gravity. It just happens they have better skills on the ball.
And that leads to antoher problem....ball control. I really can't find a single miscontrol in those footage...for god's sake that's the foundamentals. And what make it worse is that one key feature this year should be the "First Touch Control" thing. Where is it? That's probably the most important factor which differentiate a normal player vs a Messi/Neymar/etc...they can control the ball in a better way...they can keep it closer to their feet....i can't see that in pes. And above all i can't see average players struggle with that.

Another important aspect pes is lacking is the physicality. I'd like to see body contacts....positions battle....i'd like to see player struggling to face the net....in real life you can't just run diagonally or dribble one man and pass through the opponent midfield like nothing has happened. I'd like to see urgency...i'd like to see more fouls....anythingthat can tighten up the midlfield would be welcome. Now it's basically a countless end to end action. Man marking all over the place with wrong positioning.

Then we can talk about shooting. Another basic part of football that is just plain wrong in pes.
As it is now, positioning, balance and ball control do not make any difference. If you press the button a laser shoot will be triggered, that's it. again and again. Whether you have a good position and great balance to take it or you are not facing the net doesn't matter...you can still perfectly shoot..and you are always going to hit the target for fuck's sake...i've probably seen just two shoots going off....for centimeters....how's that possible?!
The very same argument could be made for passing.
This leads to the lack of joy in scoring goals....they are basically the same over and over again. with no user gratification.

About the positive things, i can see a great improvement in gks....and graphically speaking is absolutely top-notch.
But well, not enough for me to make it worth more than 10€.
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This is my evaluation off the videos..perfect dribbling controls , perfect passing and the video where messi is running down the right wing then suddenly cuts inside at a right angle looked totally wrong
 
Lami said:
Never failed. Was just never given the chance :P
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:LOL:

The only thing separating me from Leo Messi is a signature on a servette at the age of 13

hitmanuk said:
This is my evaluation off the videos..perfect dribbling controls , perfect passing and the video where messi is running down the right wing then suddenly cuts inside at a right angle looked totally wrong
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https://youtu.be/bOX2QpfMkq4

I know right it's ridiculous.
 
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To me:

- PES 2014 was the best in the series with regards to simulation of movement, dynamics and realism.
- PES 2016 is super fun, most fun since the PS2 days BY FAR.

If PES 2017 slows down the pace a bit and recovers some of the depth found in 2014 I will be happy.

Konami can't both fix sluggish response and ping pong passing. They are mutually exclusive. Either they build an awesome simulator that people loath (14) or a fun arcade (16) that the instant gratification generation loves.

I won't cry for the road not taken, and enjoy what's given to us.

No time for bitching.
 
Gedtillo said:
To me:

- PES 2014 was the best in the series with regards to simulation of movement, dynamics and realism.
- PES 2016 is super fun, most fun since the PS2 days BY FAR.

If PES 2017 slows down the pace a bit and recovers some of the depth found in 2014 I will be happy.

Konami can't both fix sluggish response and ping pong passing. They are mutually exclusive. Either they build an awesome simulator that people loath (14) or a fun arcade (16) that the instant gratification generation loves.

I won't cry for the road not taken, and enjoy what's given to us.

No time for bitching.
Click to expand...

IMO 2015 had a good balance and they could've kept that.
 
Gedtillo said:
To me:

- PES 2014 was the best in the series with regards to simulation of movement, dynamics and realism.
- PES 2016 is super fun, most fun since the PS2 days BY FAR.

If PES 2017 slows down the pace a bit and recovers some of the depth found in 2014 I will be happy.

Konami can't both fix sluggish response and ping pong passing. They are mutually exclusive. Either they build an awesome simulator that people loath (14) or a fun arcade (16) that the instant gratification generation loves.

I won't cry for the road not taken, and enjoy what's given to us.

No time for bitching.
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I'm curious, what does player responsiveness have to do with passing accuracy? I feel like you can have highly responsive players without having laser guided, 180 no-look passes that reach their intended destination without fail.
 
That Messi goal is not unrealistic,the problem is someone playing the game after few hours already managed to do that.That is defitely worrying. As it's worrying that people are already scoring super goals with just few hours of playtest. Pes 2017 gameplay depth is a real worry to me. It's what killed my enjoyment every time i easily won playing Pes 2016.
 
Wish that I can see videos from different camera angles. Not sure what the obsession with the default cam. Not even realistic and animation and ball physics can look awkward. Live broadcast is my favorite
 
Lami said:
IMO 2015 had a good balance and they could've kept that.
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IMO 2015 is one of the best in PES series. Player models, Player control, passing feel etc.. They just nailed the pace of the game. I know it's not the most popular version because it had other issues but take the core of the game, an exhibition match, play with full manual and it's amazing. I have no clue why they didn't build on it this version
 
curdstar said:
Wasn't it 3.3 million for PES 2016? Hardly a flop; and most certainly not a flop in today's videogame marketplace.

Selling over 3 million of just about anything can be deemed a success, so long as sales against development/promotion even out. Konami don't spend anywhere near the eye-watering sums EA do on marketing/promotion/development for FIFA yet achieve a third of that games sales. That isn't bad going at all. Anyone suggesting that based on sales that PES is dying needs their head examined.

But really, at the end of the day sales discussion is really only the concern of rabid fanboys. I personally couldn't give a fuck if a game I like/prefer doesn't sell as much as another game.

If I approached all my hobbies and interests with concerns over sales and popularity being the driving force behind my decision making, my taste in films, music and videogames would be absolutely shite. Avatar would be my favourite film; fucking Rihanna or some other crap would be my favourite recording artist; Angry Birds or similar would be my favourite videogame.
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or Minecraft and Spore.(my boys and all their friends favorite games at the moment)
fantastic way of looking at it.
you are the one that needs to enjoy it.
its no use trying to convince others cause believe me my boys have tried.
 
wkhalil said:
IMO 2015 is one of the best in PES series. Player models, Player control, passing feel etc.. They just nailed the pace of the game. I know it's not the most popular version because it had other issues but take the core of the game, an exhibition match, play with full manual and it's amazing. I have no clue why they didn't build on it this version
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In my opinion, no PES game released on this gen has enough longevity to even be considered a good PES, much less one of the best.

There are fundamental issues with the AI that prevent these games from reaching the next step. For example, today TBB almost lost his mind when he saw Tiago shooting from outside the box because that never happens in PES 2016 :LMAO:

I'm yet to see the AI go on the line and cross or do any contact foul to stop a dangerous situation. Like someone said, everything is end to end with little build up play.

PES 2015 was when the ice skating was introduced, I don't know if it's as bad as PES 2016 and now PES 2017 but that's when these issues started showing. It was also when they said fuck it, let's make our version of FIFA.

Now, between PES 2014/2015/2016, which is better? Probably 2015.
 
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I tested again a game on pes 2015 !
pass assistance in 2015 on 2 bar(default), is definitely less than 2016 on 1 bar !!!
pes 2015 on 1 bar is almost decent and free (not totally decent, but it is quite better than pes 2016 1 bar crap passing)
 
Banksy said:
Making pes on the ps4 the definitive platform and offering a downgraded resolution on the xboxone and a enhanced PS3 version for the PC hasn't helped sales..It's important to see value in all your markets irrespective of whether one platform offers a better return(this is something ea does well).

It's only going to take one game,and if the polish is there and every screw is tightened then there see improved sales figures.

All about making something people don't want to put down,a experience that keeps rewarding play,has depth and longevity.People just want that feeling they got back in the day,where anything could happen and where anything felt possible.
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I'm on xb1 and I'm certainly not buying it this year. Scripted buying belief offline in any mode, unplayable online due to everyone playing as Madrid and still spamming with them. Twinned with half a game and months editing it to get anything like the clubs to actually resemble the team it's supposed to be.

As much as I want it to be, this isn't the game I grew up editing and patching to my hearts content.
 
when 5 years goes buy and your still playing the same PES then you have a great game.

By what iv'e seen the last 5 years it's gonna be a while.

2017 will probably be trashed when 2018 comes.
 
PESNinja said:
In my opinion, no PES game released on this gen has enough longevity to even be considered a good PES, much less one of the best.

There are fundamental issues with the AI that prevent these games from reaching the next step. For example, today TBB almost lost his mind when he saw Tiago shooting from outside the box because that never happens in PES 2016 :LMAO:

I'm yet to see the AI go on the line and cross or do any contact foul to stop a dangerous situation. Like someone said, everything is end to end with little build up play.

PES 2015 was when the ice skating was introduced, I don't know if it's as bad as PES 2016 and now PES 2017 but that's when these issues started showing. It was also when they said fuck it, let's make our version of FIFA.

Now, between PES 2014/2015/2016, which is better? Probably 2015.
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No ice skating in 2015 for me. Nothing in my experience or else I'd be turned off easily like 2016.
 
PESNinja said:
In my opinion, no PES game released on this gen has enough longevity to even be considered a good PES, much less one of the best.

There are fundamental issues with the AI that prevent these games from reaching the next step. For example, today TBB almost lost his mind when he saw Tiago shooting from outside the box because that never happens in PES 2016 :LMAO:

I'm yet to see the AI go on the line and cross or do any contact foul to stop a dangerous situation. Like someone said, everything is end to end with little build up play.

PES 2015 was when the ice skating was introduced, I don't know if it's as bad as PES 2016 and now PES 2017 but that's when these issues started showing. It was also when they said fuck it, let's make our version of FIFA.

Now, between PES 2014/2015/2016, which is better? Probably 2015.
Click to expand...

You're right about PES 2015 . .It is when they decided to copy Fifa .. pes 2014 was a brave attempt to bring the game to another level but it was rushed had problems and most people hated it. I have to say I was shocked when they brought out pes 2015 trying to please pes5 fans and copy Fifa . . a double whammy in my view.. . .pes 2016 had big problems but since the last dlc it's very playable and enjoyable. . .I'm optimistic for pes 2017 considering they have fixed most of the problems that pes 2016 had.
 
PESNinja said:
In my opinion, no PES game released on this gen has enough longevity to even be considered a good PES, much less one of the best.

There are fundamental issues with the AI that prevent these games from reaching the next step. For example, today TBB almost lost his mind when he saw Tiago shooting from outside the box because that never happens in PES 2016 :LMAO:

I'm yet to see the AI go on the line and cross or do any contact foul to stop a dangerous situation. Like someone said, everything is end to end with little build up play.

PES 2015 was when the ice skating was introduced, I don't know if it's as bad as PES 2016 and now PES 2017 but that's when these issues started showing. It was also when they said fuck it, let's make our version of FIFA.

Now, between PES 2014/2015/2016, which is better? Probably 2015.
Click to expand...

Ice skating was introduced in PES 2016, by all means it didn't exist on PES 2015 for me. That's one of the reasons I still play it today despite it's outdated visual compared to PES 2016. I play on PS4 so it may be different but pes 2015 is very solid and players feel heavier on the ground. PES 2016 was missed up some way or other after the updates and ice skating was more increasingly noticeable
 
wkhalil said:
Ice skating was introduced in PES 2016, by all means it didn't exist on PES 2015 for me. That's one of the reasons I still play it today despite it's outdated visual compared to PES 2016. I play on PS4 so it may be different but pes 2015 is very solid and players feel heavier on the ground. PES 2016 was missed up some way or other after the updates and ice skating was more increasingly noticeable
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Well, Bhatti debuted PES 2015 with a gif Neymar sliding into a shooting animation. My memory on this isn't very good but I agree that PES 2016 had bigger ice skating problems.
 
Lami said:
No ice skating in 2015 for me. Nothing in my experience or else I'd be turned off easily like 2016.
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true 2015 looks better, animations and foot planting. So the million dollar question.... why is it gone? Crazy!

Konami builds a beautiful thing, then trashes it. Then builds it and trashes it. over and over again.........:COAT:
 
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zeemeister said:
Not defending anything. I finally understand what you meant I just don't agree with your analysis.

Tactics have consequences in PES and BTW the German player could have opted to put more players up by switching tactics with the new mechanism to do so.

Let's be real. Real life will never be reenacted on a video game and it shouldnt. There are 1000s of instance where the AI reacts differently to what a human being does. Look at every video ever made on a football game and find one that does.

I remember PES gone by I used to take my controller and not touch anything the AI would stand there not attack the ball on all difficulty levels. Yes even the much lauded PES 6 (spit)

Do your video but trying to undermine someone else's work is not cool.
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No real life will never be reenacted, it's not 100% possible, we're not playing 90 minute matches, I get that.

Logic though, that can be achieved. It is highly illogical and completely unrealistic for any tactics to overpower football fundamentals. Seriously, that's what scares me about those who defend that.

You can still have a great game and still make the right balance between arcade and sim. You have to achieve the right fundamentals, the base layer, of what makes football...football.

Step 1 - You put players on a pitch, throw a ball out there - and that is your fundamentals. See the ball, go get the ball, go play football.

Step 2 - Then you add the other layer, which is tactics and discipline (coaching).

Step 3 - Finally you add in the immersion with crowds, chants, stadiums, broadcast networks, etc.

If Step 1 hasn't been achieved, and is so glaringly obvious it hasn't - then why in the world would there be enough momentum to support working on Step 2?

This is what I find illogical, and I am dumbfounded that there are those that are okay with it. It is a video game, I get that. What I challenge with that is PES was known for its gameplay in the past, and they did that by not having these bogus, highly illogical, issues. Why would we be okay with it now?

I've always said if you take care of your sim crowd, the arcade group will be taken care of. If things like that screenshot are okay with people, then I know what group they are part of.

zeemeister said:
I get what Matt is saying it mustn't be obvious that there are glaring issues that take away from the immersion when you play. You either have to start bulk editing or playing in a certain way to overcome the issues and it kills the experience. Thats what we all want at the end of the day. A fun exciting immersive experience that rewards skill. All us failed football stars :LOL:

But we need to be mindful that not everyone can be pleased and you need to give things a chance before writing it off and hurling insults at Konami or EA for that matter. Not saying Matt does this just a general comment.

I am still amped on PES 2017 and getting more anxious about playing it I get the feeling it's going to be a doozy. I can feel it in my bones man.

Demo date seems ages away still.
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Believe me, I am still amped, I'm not judging the game as final. I'm throwing in my 2 cents to educate the oblivious - or those in denial. If we don't expect the best from KONAMI, then we will get the worst. Lowering the standards of expectations is hardly the way to go, and it seems like the majority of those that are attending these invitations to test the build, are not holding themselves accountable. This evo-web community is one of the strongest supporters of realism in gameplay - it's why I can call it home when it comes to PES because that is what I remember about PES. It was known for gameplay, without any cheats or illogical positioning, it's just hard to accept it how it is now. Anyone who knows me, they know I won't bash a company or bash others, but I will hold them accountable to their perceptions and misleadings.

Deco said:
I think Matt's being a little hypocritical there considering they have to adjust most things on Fifa with sliders to make it playable.
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I've said it before, but PES and FIFA are not the same. You can't compare apples to apples with them. This is why I don't write off PES unless everything has been exhausted, and same goes with FIFA. I don't choose either/or, I play both - unless I really can't stand one of them, and for the last 3 years, it's been PES - and I'm not alone.

I don't think it's being hypocritical at all. FIFA gives us the option to make the game how we want it. The base is there in all values at 50, but instead of being left in the dust, I'm free to modify values to get the closest version of the game that I want. That increases playability ten-fold. In PES, I had to wait to globally adjust player ratings. PES 13 was the last we could do that as PES 14-16, no editor gave it the time or day in the end. I know we fought for PES 14 so hard in the editing department here on Evo, but the core/base of the game was broken.

PES 17 is another opportunity, and may be another hours upon hours for me and others to edit to what we can. I hope this isn't the case, but if that build being previewed is near final, then I'm just preparing for the yearly siege on achieving realistic gameplay in a series that used to be the king at it.
 
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Waiting on edit mode news, Specifically Xbox One. I'm hoping at least that the "in game" logo and sponsor editor is back. Mind you I am sorely tempted to switch over to PS4.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
btw old games had arcade passing too BUT blind passes barely found the targets. eg back heels and backward passes or first time passes with crappier players wich toned down ping-pong passing system and urged u to turn and pass facing towards your team mates, it slowed the game down in the end.
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great point. :WORSHIP:

simulation = player facing away from target bad pass.
arcade = player facing away from target good pass.:SHOCK:


Matt10 said:
Step 1 - You put players on a pitch, throw a ball out there - and that is your fundamentals. See the ball, go get the ball, go play football.

Step 2 - Then you add the other layer, which is tactics and discipline (coaching).

Step 3 - Finally you add in the immersion with crowds, chants, stadiums, broadcast networks, etc.

If Step 1 hasn't been achieved, and is so glaringly obvious it hasn't - then why in the world would there be enough momentum to support working on Step 2?

This is what I find illogical, and I am dumbfounded that there are those that are okay with it. It is a video game, I get that. What I challenge with that is PES was known for its gameplay in the past, and they did that by not having these bogus, highly illogical, issues. Why would we be okay with it now?

I've always said if you take care of your sim crowd, the arcade group will be taken care of. If things like that screenshot are okay with people, then I know what group they are part of.
Click to expand...

great post!

correct, step 1 isn't in 2017
 
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fantomas23 said:
anyone else notice glaring error with camp nou stadium? they got the goal net type wrong lol smh i did tweet them abt it..lets see if they will make an amendment that takes 2 minutes to complete. wont hold my breath
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I did notice a lod error in the cutscene, you can see here it looks like 2 sectors are empty, as the camera zooms out.
A44kr07.jpg

2Td8dz4.jpg

That's actually an old PES bug dating from 2011's or maybe even earlier, kinda funny it keeps slipping them for a few years and never been fixed.
 
Matt10 said:
No real life will never be reenacted, it's not 100% possible, we're not playing 90 minute matches, I get that.

Logic though, that can be achieved. It is highly illogical and completely unrealistic for any tactics to overpower football fundamentals. Seriously, that's what scares me about those who defend that.

You can still have a great game and still make the right balance between arcade and sim. You have to achieve the right fundamentals, the base layer, of what makes football...football.

Step 1 - You put players on a pitch, throw a ball out there - and that is your fundamentals. See the ball, go get the ball, go play football.

Step 2 - Then you add the other layer, which is tactics and discipline (coaching).

Step 3 - Finally you add in the immersion with crowds, chants, stadiums, broadcast networks, etc.

If Step 1 hasn't been achieved, and is so glaringly obvious it hasn't - then why in the world would there be enough momentum to support working on Step 2?

This is what I find illogical, and I am dumbfounded that there are those that are okay with it. It is a video game, I get that. What I challenge with that is PES was known for its gameplay in the past, and they did that by not having these bogus, highly illogical, issues. Why would we be okay with it now?

I've always said if you take care of your sim crowd, the arcade group will be taken care of. If things like that screenshot are okay with people, then I know what group they are part of.



Believe me, I am still amped, I'm not judging the game as final. I'm throwing in my 2 cents to educate the oblivious - or those in denial. If we don't expect the best from KONAMI, then we will get the worst. Lowering the standards of expectations is hardly the way to go, and it seems like the majority of those that are attending these invitations to test the build, are not holding themselves accountable. This evo-web community is one of the strongest supporters of realism in gameplay - it's why I can call it home when it comes to PES because that is what I remember about PES. It was known for gameplay, without any cheats or illogical positioning, it's just hard to accept it how it is now. Anyone who knows me, they know I won't bash a company or bash others, but I will hold them accountable to their perceptions and misleadings.



I've said it before, but PES and FIFA are not the same. You can't compare apples to apples with them. This is why I don't write off PES unless everything has been exhausted, and same goes with FIFA. I don't choose either/or, I play both - unless I really can't stand one of them, and for the last 3 years, it's been PES - and I'm not alone.

I don't think it's being hypocritical at all. FIFA gives us the option to make the game how we want it. The base is there in all values at 50, but instead of being left in the dust, I'm free to modify values to get the closest version of the game that I want. That increases playability ten-fold. In PES, I had to wait to globally adjust player ratings. PES 13 was the last we could do that as PES 14-16, no editor gave it the time or day in the end. I know we fought for PES 14 so hard in the editing department here on Evo, but the core/base of the game was broken.

PES 17 is another opportunity, and may be another hours upon hours for me and others to edit to what we can. I hope this isn't the case, but if that build being previewed is near final, then I'm just preparing for the yearly siege on achieving realistic gameplay in a series that used to be the king at it.
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Matt it's all well and good talking about the old pes games and how great they were ... .but expectations of games are higher now and with advanced technology games companies can attempt more advanced improvements which also leads to bigger problems of balancing things out. Strange thing is I hated the problems pes 2016 had and and stopped playing it, but since the last dlc it is very playable . . a lot of things have been fixed defences and goalies are better the pace and refs are a bit better and myself and a couple of the other guys are loving it and having some of the best master League football in years. I know by saying this some people will 'test' it out by switching on an exhibition match and wait patiently to find at least one of their old pet hates or find a new one. . .you can't tailor for everybody. Lelly said that they were'nt allowed turn on a couple of settings during the test and some people had some settings turned on at the same time which caused problems. I can see potential in the new game from the videos and minor tweaks could sort them. .also it's down to peoples approach to the game as to how it plays. I could play pes 2016 all gung ho and charge around with a fast setting and all assists on and it would play like shite.

The new game is not a disaster. . it actually looks a decent game. What's the options in your view? To introduce sliders? Let's see how the game pans out before we condemn it to the bin. The idea that Fifa is all sim-like is a mirage. I've watched guys playing it and because it's slow paced and low scoring they're fooling themselves into believing it's lifelike . .the reason it's so low scoring is because there isn't much goalmouth action happening and most teams play the same way. I've accepted that pes will never be a sim . . .it's all about catering for young online players and trying to win over Fifa fans .. .nothing will change that. We take what we can out of these games and enjoy them for what they are. . or don't play.
 
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Deco said:
Matt it's all well and good talking about the old pes games and how great they were ... .but expectations of games are higher now and with advanced technology games companies can attempt more advanced improvements which also leads to bigger problems of balancing things out. Strange thing is I hated the problems pes 2016 had and and stopped playing it, but since the last dlc it is very playable . . a lot of things have been fixed defences and goalies are better the pace and refs are a bit better and myself and a couple of the other guys are loving it and having some of the best master League football in years. I know by saying this some people will 'test' it out by switching on an exhibition match and wait patiently to find at least one of their old pet hates or find a new one. . .you can't tailor for everybody. Lelly said that they were'nt allowed turn on a couple of settings during the test and some people had some settings turned on at the same time which caused problems. I can see potential in the new game from the videos and minor tweaks could sort them. .also it's down to peoples approach to the game as to how it plays. I could play pes 2016 all gung ho and charge around with a fast setting and all assists on and it would play like shite.

The new game is not a disaster. . it actually looks a decent game. What's the options in your view? To introduce sliders? Let's see how the game pans out before we condemn it to the bin. The idea that Fifa is all sim-like is a mirage. I've watched guys playing it and because it's slow paced and low scoring they're fooling themselves into believing it's lifelike . .the reason it's so low scoring is because there isn't much goalmouth action happening and most teams play the same way. I've accepted that pes will never be a sim . . .it's all about catering for young online players and trying to win over Fifa fans .. .nothing will change that. We take what we can out of these games and enjoy them for what they are. . or don't play.
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Hi Deco, as usual, we sing the same song - but in a different tune - which is what I love about our interactions, my friend.

I am intrigued to hear about PES16, and I will definitely be testing it out like you said. Yes, I will look to see what issues are still there. I remember giving it a real go when it first came out.

I haven't condemned anything to the bin, haven't given up on PES at all. If anything, I feel like I'm the one fighting for it. It's better than that, it's much better than that - I think that's what is most frustrating. Adjust 1 or 2 values/options here and there, and goodness...the game could be sublime. That is what is frustrating, man. To be so close, yet so far, and on top of that - not have the tools to get near that? Agh.

I'm not talking about the old PES days through nostalgia glasses either. I'm talking about a direct comparison of how certain things that never happened in those days, so why is there an excuse to allow them to happen now? Advanced technologies is fine, but if it regresses the purpose - then why shouldn't we challenge that? Should we just accept it and move on? If it's not too late, then I'd love to have my say.

FIFA isn't a sim, never will be, no game will for football - until they start listening to the right demographic, but there's no money in that. What I mean is, while I'm left here with this arcade game of FIFA 16, I'm at least given the tools to improve it on my own - my own power, my own perception and my own belief of what a football match should look like.

If PES 17 has the same capabilities, an option would be tactics again - although it feels like we've been down this road, then goodness that'd be great.

I am holding out hope, I really am. All I can do is vent, analyze and promote what should be there. I'll use the tools that I'm provided, and make the best of it.
 
This video explains my thoughts on the current build that has been previewing. I tried not to be overly-critical, but I did want to explain why those passing lanes are so wide open. It's not just a product of the receiver or passer, it's the overly aggressive defending. Similar to what we saw in PES 16 early on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKy7Y7e60w
 
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