PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

So , who from you will be on GamesCom this year ? I really need to see 2 vs CPU , co-op gameplay on PES 2017 :(
 
zeemeister said:
Is that what @matt10 meant? The player is not committing Germans to attack the ball maybe he has a high counterattack setting. I am going out on a limb here but if the play testers noticed there were too few players attacking the ball it would have been highlighted.
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I'm not sure how it can be defended. This is what I was saying, and will be in my video, where tactics take priority over football IQ and common sense.

If it's a requirement to have to adjust your tactics so that kind of event doesn't happen, then that is a big red flag. I'm not saying for me personally, hell I'm the guy who has spent 12 hours in a day adjusting fluid formations and playing on various difficulties in PES16 - just to get a decent game.

Overall, football tactics are being prioritized over football fundamentals and common sense. That's a very scary formula to me.
 
Matt10 said:
I'm not sure how it can be defended. This is what I was saying, and will be in my video, where tactics take priority over football IQ and common sense.

If it's a requirement to have to adjust your tactics so that kind of event doesn't happen, then that is a big red flag. I'm not saying for me personally, hell I'm the guy who has spent 12 hours in a day adjusting fluid formations and playing on various difficulties in PES16 - just to get a decent game.

Overall, football tactics are being prioritized over football fundamentals and common sense. That's a very scary formula to me.
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These kind of judgments cannot be made from a video or picture as we do not know what tactics the user has adjusted or employed, so I would reserve any kind of judgment until playing the game myself.

What all of these videos have shown is that there are some nice new positive things but also a few negatives. I am someone who still plays PES16 and what I have seen from these videos is that the game has improved on that so am happy enough, I won't ignore some of the negative things that I have seen but generally speaking I am happy to buy it.
 
Matt10 said:
I'm not sure how it can be defended. This is what I was saying, and will be in my video, where tactics take priority over football IQ and common sense.

If it's a requirement to have to adjust your tactics so that kind of event doesn't happen, then that is a big red flag. I'm not saying for me personally, hell I'm the guy who has spent 12 hours in a day adjusting fluid formations and playing on various difficulties in PES16 - just to get a decent game.

Overall, football tactics are being prioritized over football fundamentals and common sense. That's a very scary formula to me.
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Not defending anything. I finally understand what you meant I just don't agree with your analysis.

Tactics have consequences in PES and BTW the German player could have opted to put more players up by switching tactics with the new mechanism to do so.

Let's be real. Real life will never be reenacted on a video game and it shouldnt. There are 1000s of instance where the AI reacts differently to what a human being does. Look at every video ever made on a football game and find one that does.

I remember PES gone by I used to take my controller and not touch anything the AI would stand there not attack the ball on all difficulty levels. Yes even the much lauded PES 6 (spit)

Do your video but trying to undermine someone else's work is not cool.
 
zeemeister said:
Not defending anything. I finally understand what you meant I just don't agree with your analysis.

Tactics have consequences in PES and BTW the German player could have opted to put more players up by switching tactics with the new mechanism to do so.

Let's be real. Real life will never be reenacted on a video game and it shouldnt. There are 1000s of instance where the AI reacts differently to what a human being does. Look at every video ever made on a football game and find one that does.

I remember PES gone by I used to take my controller and not touch anything the AI would stand there not attack the ball on all difficulty levels. Yes even the much lauded PES 6 (spit)

Do your video but trying to undermine someone else's work is not cool.
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Exactly, it's a computer a game and it's just a bunch of codes and script. Why do people assume that videogame can replicate real life? Hell, none of the sports and even racing game can replicate real life circumstances.
 
I get what Matt is saying it mustn't be obvious that there are glaring issues that take away from the immersion when you play. You either have to start bulk editing or playing in a certain way to overcome the issues and it kills the experience. Thats what we all want at the end of the day. A fun exciting immersive experience that rewards skill. All us failed football stars :LOL:

But we need to be mindful that not everyone can be pleased and you need to give things a chance before writing it off and hurling insults at Konami or EA for that matter. Not saying Matt does this just a general comment.

I am still amped on PES 2017 and getting more anxious about playing it I get the feeling it's going to be a doozy. I can feel it in my bones man.

Demo date seems ages away still.
 
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anyone else notice glaring error with camp nou stadium? they got the goal net type wrong lol smh i did tweet them abt it..lets see if they will make an amendment that takes 2 minutes to complete. wont hold my breath
 
People who absolutely hate this game that they will apparently never buy probably spend 40 hours writing about hating it; and that is before the demo is even out. When the demo is released they will spend (or will claim to have spent) 40hrs playing it by spending 40hrs writing about how much they hate it and knew they would hate it anyway, while saying that those who like it are "part of the problem" or whatever other hyperbolic bollocks.

After all that mentioned above, these same people will likely buy the game but somehow still arrive at the conclusion that Konami/Adam Bhatti/"clueless, casual playing games journalists" conned them and are to blame for them wasting their time and money.
 
curdstar said:
After all that mentioned above, these same people will likely buy the game but somehow still arrive at the conclusion that Konami/Adam Bhatti/"clueless, casual playing games journalists" conned them and are to blame for them wasting their time and money.
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The sales numbers clearly speak a different language...
 
I've gone the other way..I watched a good preview vid and the author had a really good knowledge and understanding of pes16 and what has changed for the better in pes17.

A slower game where passing has to be more methodical and thought out where gaps and mistakes are punished by the cpu..

Much more pressure on the ball carrier and he even talks about how it's not easy to always get the perfect touch.How space and how you use it is now key.

I'm even warming to the ai and there's just something about those ball physics now that makes me moist.

Enjoyed both pes16 and Fifa16 massively and I really don't think either title needs huge adjustments,the simplest of refinements will make both titles much more arresting.

For me konami are trying to capture the feel of football while Fifa is more obsessed with capturing hyper realistic animations and player movements and while I would love pes to step up in this regard,I've still noticed in pes17 poor first touch,players struggling to get it under control and switching the ball to there preferred foot while shooting and passing as well as foot position still having importance and body shape.

When you also look how much keepers have improved,set plays and the way the ball gets back lift,hits resistance from the air,I begin to reminisce how good the ball felt in older titles and how that always felt like one the best components of the game.Big game changer for me.

Ultimately it's all about how it makes you feel and how it feels to play...
 
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majuh said:
The sales numbers clearly speak a different language...
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Sales numbers :)

I just can't anymore. Sales are down according to stats. How about overall console gaming year on year? Is the mobile space not growing and kids these days aren't as into video games. The PS 4 is selling at a fraction of the PS2 sales this in turn obviously affect the software coupled with the sales


http://qz.com/666299/the-golden-era-of-video-game-console-sales-is-over/
Do the stats we see consider digital sales because that would have also dented physical media.

Anyway I couldn't care less about sales. I dont think it's indicative of a games quality.
 
majuh said:
The sales numbers clearly speak a different language...
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Wasn't it 3.3 million for PES 2016? Hardly a flop; and most certainly not a flop in today's videogame marketplace.

Selling over 3 million of just about anything can be deemed a success, so long as sales against development/promotion even out. Konami don't spend anywhere near the eye-watering sums EA do on marketing/promotion/development for FIFA yet achieve a third of that games sales. That isn't bad going at all. Anyone suggesting that based on sales that PES is dying needs their head examined.

But really, at the end of the day sales discussion is really only the concern of rabid fanboys. I personally couldn't give a fuck if a game I like/prefer doesn't sell as much as another game.

If I approached all my hobbies and interests with concerns over sales and popularity being the driving force behind my decision making, my taste in films, music and videogames would be absolutely shite. Avatar would be my favourite film; fucking Rihanna or some other crap would be my favourite recording artist; Angry Birds or similar would be my favourite videogame.
 
curdstar said:
Wasn't it 3.3 million for PES 2016? Hardly a flop; and most certainly not a flop in today's videogame marketplace.

Selling over 3 million of just about anything can be deemed a success, so long as sales against development/promotion even out. Konami don't spend anywhere near the eye-watering sums EA do on marketing/promotion/development for FIFA yet achieve a third of that games sales. That isn't bad going at all. Anyone suggesting that based on sales that PES is dying needs their head examined.

But really, at the end of the day sales discussion is really only the concern of rabid fanboys. I personally couldn't give a fuck if a game I like/prefer doesn't sell as much as another game.

If I approached all my hobbies and interests with concerns over sales and popularity being the driving force behind my decision making, my taste in films, music and videogames would be absolutely shite. Avatar would be my favourite film; fucking Rihanna or some other crap would be my favourite recording artist; Angry Birds or similar would be my favourite videogame.
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That's not the point, you claimed that the people complaining about the game will end up buying it anyway, which clearly is not the case when sales have dropped 50%.

In comparison, according to Forbes: "According to our estimates, FIFA unit sales have tripled from 6.4 million units sold in 2010 to roughly 18.7 million units sold in 2014."

I don't understand how anyone can see KONAMI being on the right path.
 
zeemeister said:
Not defending anything. I finally understand what you meant I just don't agree with your analysis.

Tactics have consequences in PES and BTW the German player could have opted to put more players up by switching tactics with the new mechanism to do so.

Let's be real. Real life will never be reenacted on a video game and it shouldnt. There are 1000s of instance where the AI reacts differently to what a human being does. Look at every video ever made on a football game and find one that does.

I remember PES gone by I used to take my controller and not touch anything the AI would stand there not attack the ball on all difficulty levels. Yes even the much lauded PES 6 (spit)

Do your video but trying to undermine someone else's work is not cool.
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I think Matt's being a little hypocritical there considering they have to adjust most things on Fifa with sliders to make it playable.
 
Making pes on the ps4 the definitive platform and offering a downgraded resolution on the xboxone and a enhanced PS3 version for the PC hasn't helped sales..It's important to see value in all your markets irrespective of whether one platform offers a better return(this is something ea does well).

It's only going to take one game,and if the polish is there and every screw is tightened then there see improved sales figures.

All about making something people don't want to put down,a experience that keeps rewarding play,has depth and longevity.People just want that feeling they got back in the day,where anything could happen and where anything felt possible.
 
Sales determines the budget the next game will have and in some cases determines that there won't be a next game at all. Obviously with less money to get licenses, it means have fun playing the entire Master League on Konami Stadium with 11 Castolos.

This talk about "I don't care about sales" is funny because if PES was killing FIFA on the market you would be the first ones pointing it out. The reality is that PES went from owning half of the football market to being a distant second that barely tickles FIFA due to a significant drop in quality of the games they released.

Some people just want to play the next PES regardless of how it comes out, I get it. They go on PESday to make friends and try to get a job with Konami. And honestly, it's their life... if I were in a bad position I would probably do the same. Getting paid to travel around the world, play games all day and block people on twitter is the dream life.

Still, this yearly bubble that people create to block "negativity" is so stupid. It seems people are only allowed to be honest about PES X, when PES X+1 is announced. Do we really needed to wait until August 2016 to say replays and refs were completely broken in 2016?

Right now, it should be about pointing out as many mistakes as possible and feeding them back to Konami headquarters to have the devs themselves test the game and see if there something that can be done but nobody cares... let's be positive.
 
Bloody hell I am drawing blood biting my tongue right now regarding sales but we heading into the PES vs fifa market share thread.

@pesninja all the playtesters say refs are improved but we won't know till we play it ourselves. You seem confident they aren't and you might want to check that resentment towards playtesters I am just as jealous.
 
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Playtesters are saying the refs aren't quite as harsh as pes5 blowing up for everything but there not far off..

Set plays and rewarding free kicks in dangerous areas is a great tactical element..I don't think anyone will be getting away with sliding tackles from behind or taking players out in dangerous areas(a big bear of mine in pes16).

It's all the little things that make the difference..
 
I really can see just few positive things in these videos apart from graphics....but I guess it depends on whether you like Pes2016 or not.
I consider it the worst footbal game ever. and this is just a pes2016.1.

Player's agility is so OP. There's no inertia in the movements. You are supposed to control 70/80/90 kg human being but i can't feel that. They turn around in a fraction of second, they skate on the pitch....it's embarassing to see. Now you can argue that's normal when you see players like Messi or Neymar but it's really not. They are still human being affected by normal gravity. It just happens they have better skills on the ball.
And that leads to antoher problem....ball control. I really can't find a single miscontrol in those footage...for god's sake that's the foundamentals. And what make it worse is that one key feature this year should be the "First Touch Control" thing. Where is it? That's probably the most important factor which differentiate a normal player vs a Messi/Neymar/etc...they can control the ball in a better way...they can keep it closer to their feet....i can't see that in pes. And above all i can't see average players struggle with that.

Another important aspect pes is lacking is the physicality. I'd like to see body contacts....positions battle....i'd like to see player struggling to face the net....in real life you can't just run diagonally or dribble one man and pass through the opponent midfield like nothing has happened. I'd like to see urgency...i'd like to see more fouls....anythingthat can tighten up the midlfield would be welcome. Now it's basically a countless end to end action. Man marking all over the place with wrong positioning.

Then we can talk about shooting. Another basic part of football that is just plain wrong in pes.
As it is now, positioning, balance and ball control do not make any difference. If you press the button a laser shoot will be triggered, that's it. again and again. Whether you have a good position and great balance to take it or you are not facing the net doesn't matter...you can still perfectly shoot..and you are always going to hit the target for fuck's sake...i've probably seen just two shoots going off....for centimeters....how's that possible?!
The very same argument could be made for passing.
This leads to the lack of joy in scoring goals....they are basically the same over and over again. with no user gratification.

About the positive things, i can see a great improvement in gks....and graphically speaking is absolutely top-notch.
But well, not enough for me to make it worth more than 10€.
 
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Banksy said:
Playtesters are saying the refs aren't quite as harsh as pes5 blowing up for everything but there not far off..

Set plays and rewarding free kicks in dangerous areas is a great tactical element..I don't think anyone will be getting away with sliding tackles from behind or taking players out in dangerous areas(a big bear of mine in pes16).

It's all the little things that make the difference..
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Absolutely. One of those blasted playtesters think it's pesep mentioned that refs come back for infringements.

If you ever delved into the mosh put that is myclub the pokemon twats used to hack your player down then use super cancel to not get the ball and you would lose advantage because the refs were broken. I am glad it is apparently fixed.
 
tomorrow :P

bukowski said:
I really can see just few positive things in these videos apart from graphics....but I guess it depends on whether you like Pes2016 or not.
I consider it the worst footbal game ever. and this is just a pes2016.1.

Player's agility is so OP. There's no inertia in the movements. You are supposed to control 70/80/90 kg human being but i can't feel that. They turn around in a fraction of second, they skate on the pitch....it's embarassing to see. Now you can argue that's normal when you see players like Messi or Neymar but it's really not. They are still human being affected by normal gravity. It just happens they have better skills on the ball.
And that leads to antoher problem....ball control. I really can't find a single miscontrol in those footage...for god's sake that's the foundamentals. And what make it worse is that one key feature this year should be the "First Touch Control" thing. Where is it? That's probably the most important factor which differentiate a normal player vs a Messi/Neymar/etc...they can control the ball in a better way...they can keep it closer to their feet....i can't see that in pes. And above all i can't see average players struggle with that.

Another important aspect pes is lacking is the physicality. I'd like to see body contacts....positions battle....i'd like to see player struggling to face the net....in real life you can't just run diagonally or dribble one man and pass through the opponent midfield like nothing has happened. I'd like to see urgency...i'd like to see more fouls....everything that can tighten up the midlfield would be welcome. Now it's basically a countless end to end action. Man marking all over the place with wrong positioning.

Then we can talk about shooting. Another basic part of football that is just plain wrong in pes.
As it is now, positioning, balance and ball control do not make any difference. If you press the button a laser shoot will be triggered, that's it. again and again. Whether you have a good position and great balance to take it or you are not facing the net doesn't matter...you can still perfectly shoot.
The very same argument could be made for passing.
This leads to the lack of joy in scoring goals....they are basically the same over and over again. with no user gratification.

About the positive things, i can see a great improvement in gks....and graphically speaking is absolutely top-notch.
But well, not enough for me to make it worth more than 10€.
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Well the MyClub and arcade footy loving stolen FIFA fans made their say by buying 2015 and 2016, also the FIFA youtubers who turned to PES and have been invited to PESDays aswell and so ...they are the target audiance from now on.

Old PES fans get Rivaldo and Ronaldinho, ML updates and first touch.


Btw i disagree with you since real touch is noticable, players are actually trapping the ball now...its a different story that u dont see them struggle with it.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
tomorrow :P




Well the MyClub and arcade footy loving stolen FIFA fans made their say by buying 2015 and 2016, also the FIFA youtubers who turned to PES and have been invited to PESDays aswell and so ...they are the target audiance from now on.

Old PES fans get Rivaldo and Ronaldinho, ML updates and first touch.


Btw i disagree with you since real touch is noticable, players are actually trapping the ball now...its a different story that u dont see them struggle with it.
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Could you please provide a video? Would be great.
 
zeemeister said:
Absolutely. One of those blasted playtesters think it's pesep mentioned that refs come back for infringements.

If you ever delved into the mosh put that is myclub the pokemon twats used to hack your player down then use super cancel to not get the ball and you would lose advantage because the refs were broken. I am glad it is apparently fixed.
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They've also improved the rather underwhelming set play system and free kicks which felt Hugely under developed.Which makes sense because these elements are heavily tied with the officiating of the game..

Lots of small yet hugely important refinements that make all the difference and the more I read and scrutinise the more impressed I'm becoming..

Folks can right pes16 off,but it isn't all bad and with the right adjustments and refinement in the right areas this could be potentially quite special.

Feeling so much more optimistic and itching to try the demo.
 
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