PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

What's lacking is the simplest of things that pes always did so well..

That ability to be able to get a foot in and win the ball,snuff out danger,ai that just felt much more alert and in tune with the user both off the ball and while your on it..

Even in a less technological age the suspension of belief was there and the players just felt more alive,organic and individual.

The pleasure came in how the game forced you to play football properly to get the best results and by default your teammates always felt aware of what they should be doing and what was happening around them.

Less schooled players couldn't touch a practised or skilled player and you always got out what you put in..

For all the good pes had brought to the table since the ps2 it's never felt complete or whole..there's always little holes,things that are easily exploited and the balance just hasn't felt there ..

The formula just hasn't been as good and for all the good these things are negated by the tiniest little things that weren't a issue once..couple that with a competitor that has brought a much more robust,polished game to the market and those same tiny flaws are just amplified.
 
Back to PES 2017, i want to see reasonable AI in various situations. For example in the screens below, Atletico Madrid losses 1-0 and have a last chance in the last minute of the game with a foul near the center of the pitch. So you expect all the players to be inside your area for the 1-1. But this never happened.

wPuUtxJ.png


FjMlhMy.png
 
Chris Davies said:
It took an indie developer to come up with The Golf Club, a realistic golf game, and give the first real alternative golf game for years.

I wonder if we'll ever see an indie developer achieve success with a more realistic alternative to PES and FIFA... I think both games need more competition to force them to try harder. Judging by the videos we've seen of both so far, they have a lot of the same core issues, be that supershots and no fouls, or no tactical variety.
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The Golf Club is excellent in it's approach as it is simple but realistic for the most part. No boosts, mid flight spin adding etc etc. It is almost pure as it is literally a level playing field for all players. If you get better round scores, it's because you improved and not because of any gimmicky boosts or better equipment etc.

I would love a quality indie football game as an alternative that had a similar approach. Lack of licenses has never been an issue for me in any of the ISS/PES games so I would happily play an unlicensed indie game. Back in the PS1 & PS2 era, if the game was good, felt right & was enjoyable I didn't care and editing could get around most of the issues anyway. I spent countless hours on master league campaigns as a kid.
PES almost used to be that unlicensed indie game but it isn't that these days. Obviously the gaming landscape has changed vastly since those glory days, but if another company could provide an alternative that had solid, football fundamentals first then it would be interesting to see what the hardcode PES fanbase would think of it.
 
romagnoli said:
You aren't judging Saints Row with the same sort of scrutiny though. You're not holding it to the same standards. When you continue to play Saints Row you're simply asking yourself whether or not you're having fun. What you're not doing is asking whether this is an authentic and accurate simulation of an alien invasion being single-handedly fended off by some guy who was formerly a member of the world's most powerful street gang and is now the President of the USA who also has superpowers. Does this fit my philosophy of how a President should be able to drive tanks to fight off zombie hordes? Is the AI of these alien armies true to the alien armies I've seen fighting American street gangs in real life?


When you play PES you don't ask yourself if you're having fun anymore. And even if you do ask yourself that question, there are so many more factors which impact whether or not you're having fun that it really isn't the same question at all.

And fact is, if you're still playing PES 2015, you're getting a ridiculous number of hours out of one title. 40 hours of Saints Row? Some people probably hit 40 hours playing the PES demo every year.
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Man, I'm sorry, but you lost me :/
 
I'm 41 and started playing we8 many years ago and so loved it back then pes5 I didn't get on with but pes6 became I big part of my life, sad maybe but true. The last 2-3 years i have jumped ship to fifa and though very good it never took me back to those days despite its depth and obvious graphical improvements. A few months back i decided to try pesmyclub for free and started getting back into the pes way of playing. Looking forward to pes2017 but being pc player just hoping there is enough improvement to justify the purchase, not bothered about goal nets, turf or any other graphics upgraded just want decent gameplay across all platforms.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
 
mehuk said:
Making a comment based on a video showing the game is valid. Its not presumptuous to state a fact that is there to see.

I await your next smart alec retort.:SMUG:
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What fact? You don't know the settings you don't know who is playing how they are playing, the difficulty level. You can't assume anything on the gameplay good or bad. This is my only point. Not trying to be a smart arse about this.

This place these days. I feel like I am on WENB forums.
 
mehuk said:
Making a comment based on a video showing the game is valid. Its not presumptuous to state a fact that is there to see.

I await your next smart alec retort.:SMUG:
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How about You stop trolling right now and hold the retort.
 
zeemeister said:
What fact? You don't know the settings you don't know who is playing how they are playing, the difficulty level. You can't assume anything on the gameplay good or bad. This is my only point. Not trying to be a smart arse about this.

This place these days. I feel like I am on WENB forums.
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You are right. Too many people overhere who judge PES 2017 without playing it.
Waiting for the demo looks sensible to me.
 
PES94 said:
What video are you watching? I have seen so many passing mistakes. Obviously the great passers are gonna have accurate passing, guys in what sense for example seeing Iniesta miss passing during the game so much, certain players have great passing accuracy, that's from the stats, and it should show in the game. That's the reality of it.
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Pass error and pass accuracy are different things. But even the best passers in the world have pass error (Iniesta has 10%, meaning 1 in 10 of his passes goes to nowhere).

Pass accuracy means the ball doesn't always go lazer guided and connects magnetically to his teammate foot, specially when under pressure. In real football there is always a degree of variation and players sometimes have to adjust their running trajectory to get the ball. Other times is even done purposely, because you want to pass into space not to the player. This is only possible playing the game on manual.
 
zeemeister said:
What fact? You don't know the settings you don't know who is playing how they are playing, the difficulty level. You can't assume anything on the gameplay good or bad. This is my only point. Not trying to be a smart arse about this.

This place these days. I feel like I am on WENB forums.
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Good point about judging the game based on videos.
Next big thing will be judging the game based on rumours.
It's like Twitter on a really bad day in here.

People wanted videos asap,people got videos,the game is the worst ever,even worse than 16, which is the worst ever.
Viva PES 3-4-5, best games ever.
That's pretty much sums it up,right?
Think people need to calm down a bit,wait for the demo,play the demo,then judge it,and then go back to hailing PES 3-4-5.
Again...
Btw,still love playing PES 16, so I must be stupid as F
 
Total revamp as Lami said...I feel him.

Actually that´s what I´d love too...but I know it won´t happen.
But I´m getting that thought most of the time when I see that ground passing physics since PES 2015.

GOtta say though...here in those PES 2017 videos it looks improved a bit.
At least on long passes the ball bobbles some more.

The keepers seem to be improved...seen some incredible saves, I like the replays a lot more than in PES 2016 and I like the player animations.
Specially on close ups when they cheer, it looks so lifelike. (Wish FIFA had that).

What I also like is the foggy breath you can see on the players. Could add some more atmosphere to an ML on winter games.
Though I fear, that it won´t be in the PC port.

The game looks okay to me, but for a final conclusion I need to play it myself, that´s why I don´t dig people totally hyping the game already and the ones writing it off completely.

Yes, there many facts you can make out on those vids...but I for myself wanna know whether I can get that PES feeling back with this game.
That unpredictable gameplay, moaning out loud when I miss and bumping my fist when I score!

That I will know when I play the full game for some time.

Can´t tell that by watching those vids which really look ok to me, except of Torres´ face which looks crappy for years now :P.

Nice to see that that ref spray on free kicks is in finally...took them two years only :P.

Like I said, the videos look ok...it COULD be a decent game, can´t judge that yet.

Anyway, I feel that everything PES 2017 is and contains should have been on 2016 already.
The step up i.e. development of PES feels a bit too slow...but thats just my opinion.
 
Think the comments have been ok..no ones really been overly negative and any concerns have mainly been about the ai and the yearly excuse that's the games being played on the lower levels,hence why at times it's a little anept.

There's also been some very intelligent and and well thought out posts by romangli,Matt10 and many others.

They are just videos,but even they don't lie and there's certainly plenty of good there.

For me I just feel the detached feeling while scoring is still present and the temate ai doesn't seem at times to really be able to adapt or react to dangerous situations or when it's out of position,it's like its playing a tug of war between where it should be positioned in the formation and what's actually happening on the pitch.

Add to that passes both long and short still look limited and not very varied and everythinf just seems pin point and far to accurate.Thi shouldn't be the case even on assisted.Turn speeds,perfect touches and a real lack of foot planting just make it look unnatural.
 
PESNinja said:
Pass error and pass accuracy are different things. But even the best passers in the world have pass error (Iniesta has 10%, meaning 1 in 10 of his passes goes to nowhere).

Pass accuracy means the ball doesn't always go lazer guided and connects magnetically to his teammate foot, specially when under pressure. In real football there is always a degree of variation and players sometimes have to adjust their running trajectory to get the ball. Other times is even done purposely, because you want to pass into space not to the player. This is only possible playing the game on manual.
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Sorry to tell you but today balls are like that, they are more direct/straight. I said it before I will say it again, there is pass error if you watched the video, I counted about 10, it's a video game, what's the point of having so many more mistakes, it breaks the game and kills the flow of the game. It should be a beautiful thing not frustrating. I don't want to miss on many chances it's not realistic, we are playing with world class players, not some youngster. Everyone that played the game says passing is great and they loved it, it was the best thing mentioned about the game. Lets wait for the demo.
 
PES94 said:
It should be a beautiful thing not frustrating. I don't want to miss on many chances it's not realistic, we are playing with world class players, not some youngster. Everyone that played the game says passing is great and they loved it, it was the best thing mentioned about the game. Lets wait for the demo.
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If that's your thing, enjoy it. Both FIFA and PES seem to be going down this patch so you will have a lot of fun. Personally, I hate it, stats don't matter, there is no error percentage and everyone is making perfect passes and scoring top corner goals. Missing chances is not realistic? :CONFUSE: Check how many chances Ronaldo missed in Euro 2016.

"Everyone" that plays test PES for the past 10 years always love it. People go there to make connections and get jobs with Konami, it's meaningless.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
wanted better realistic movement not just added animations.
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I think this is the biggest want from me... better/more realistic movement animations (not necessarily more animations). At the moment it just looks ridiculous.. players are shifting too much and too quickly (including the skating) making it look so damn unnatural. Players don't move or hop around so much like in this current game. Running animations, albeit only 8 way, looked much better in pes5 and 6.. ie. where sprinting actually looked like sprinting..with the fast feet moving much more naturally. Sprinting in pes16 and now 17 looks kinda like a weird quick type of jogging motion.. with a stutter every few steps. What really bugs me is that pes15 looked better player movement wise and player model wise, and pes14 looked even better than that. So its actually getting worse... I think that's why a lot of people are angry, let alone the fact that a lot of other essentials are missing (eg. variations with miskicks, ai variations etc.). Back to my biggest gripe.. a good football game needs to look like a football game when watching it on the screen... doesn't appear that way when I watch the clips. My partner has no idea about football, but I showed her 2 clips.. one of pes17 and one of pes14.. funny..she automatically said pes17 looks silly... and players shorts were too big..and they ran and moved funny. When I showed her pes14, for a moment she thought it looked like a real game on tv... that says a lot..
Don't know if you guys have seen clips of NBA2k17, but my god does it look real.. player movement and model wise.

Anyways, I know there are a heap of positives that ive seen from the pes17 clips shown thus far (ball physics has definitely improved, as have the keepers) but its hard to go past the fact that the field players don't move very realistically and the models look as bad as pes16.

....Obviously ill still play the demo and buy this game as I do every year.. but damn... another year waiting for a more realistic looking game...
 
aussiepesfan said:
I think this is the biggest want from me... better/more realistic movement animations (not necessarily more animations). At the moment it just looks ridiculous.. players are shifting too much and too quickly (including the skating) making it look so damn unnatural. Players don't move or hop around so much like in this current game. Running animations, albeit only 8 way, looked much better in pes5 and 6.. ie. where sprinting actually looked like sprinting..with the fast feet moving much more naturally. Sprinting in pes16 and now 17 looks kinda like a weird quick type of jogging motion.. with a stutter every few steps. What really bugs me is that pes15 looked better player movement wise and player model wise, and pes14 looked even better than that. So its actually getting worse... I think that's why a lot of people are angry, let alone the fact that a lot of other essentials are missing (eg. variations with miskicks, ai variations etc.). Back to my biggest gripe.. a good football game needs to look like a football game when watching it on the screen... doesn't appear that way when I watch the clips. My partner has no idea about football, but I showed her 2 clips.. one of pes17 and one of pes14.. funny..she automatically said pes17 looks silly... and players shorts were too big..and they ran and moved funny. When I showed her pes14, for a moment she thought it looked like a real game on tv... that says a lot..
Don't know if you guys have seen clips of NBA2k17, but my god does it look real.. player movement and model wise.

Anyways, I know there are a heap of positives that ive seen from the pes17 clips shown thus far (ball physics has definitely improved, as have the keepers) but its hard to go past the fact that the field players don't move very realistically and the models look as bad as pes16.

....Obviously ill still play the demo and buy this game as I do every year.. but damn... another year waiting for a more realistic looking game...
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Dude.. this days kids want this
https://twitter.com/ID7Kun/status/761495407419592704
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
wanted better realistic movement not just added animations.
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LonsFenomenoo said:
You exactly know that Pes didn't have realistic movements as well in all history. Animations were only fluid but nor realistic. In this moment physics and animations looks good enought specilly for KONAMI capabilities. Pes 2017 have the best physics and movement in all Pes games.
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..are you serious??? well I disagree with that. pes5 and 6 even, had more robotic movement than pes2016/17 etc, yeah.. thats true, but running movement animations and arm movement were certainly more realistic in pes5/6. To say pes2017 has the best physics and movement in the entire pes series is a ridiculous statement. Yes, itll probably have the smoothest animations etc,(pes16 was damn smooth and liked that) but they look way off. I guess its like music.. we must all be hearing a different thing..
 
rockstrongo said:
"old man yells at cloud"
That's the thread right now.
I'm out!
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No, it's just the users on this forum are hardcore fans that have been playing this series for ages. Sorry if I'm not easily manipulated, swindled and persuaded like some 16-year-old that believes every PR rep, and YouTuber (many of which barely know how to play football games based on what I've seen) like they're the second coming of Christ. Of course we're going to be skeptical, and judgemental. We love Pro Evo, and football games. And we've been burned countless times in the past.

As I've said in a similar post awhile back, there are times where we as a community are overly critical. I do not deny that. People lose the plot sometimes, and that's not beneficial for anyone. With that said, I must say it's an insult to my intelligence as a football fan, consumer, and a human being when PR reps come out with statements like, "Nothing can be improved." Or how about this little gem?

SCEKPQ8.png


Really? These people had an entire day, or evening with the game and couldn't provide any feedback? It's implying that the game is "perfect." I know how the world works, and I understand why YouTubers, and website owners drench their videos in positive hyperbole. This notion that you can't fully judge a game without playing it has merit. There are certain aspects of a game that you cannot experience without having had hands on time with it yourself. On the contrary, anyone who tells me that these videos are exempt from critique due to that fact are quite frankly, out of their mind. There is plenty we can observe about the game based on video footage.

I've been playing PES/FIFA/other football games for over 20 years so I'd like to think I am well versed when it comes to virtual football. A lot of the complaints thus far are justified based on what I've seen with my own eyes. The quote, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" comes to mind. I'll come to my own conclusions and not let people who are eager to sell their product, or create content for their YouTube channel dictate what's what.
 
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Wow. I read the last few pages and its just kinda sad really.

The negativity here is extreme. Its as if some people are so consumed with negativity. Lots of I.I.I... ME.ME.ME... Along with determination to talk about every fault out of context of the actual game and only about what they personally want.

I think some people literally wanted to see a match reminisent of Bradford City vs Sheffield United rather tha get a general consensus of the different ways the new game can be played in a 10 minute match.

What i dont get is its been clear this game was never going to be our perfect version of football but some dont even want to give it a chance.

Long live the freedom of expression. Although i really think a few of us here have jumped the gun a bit.
 
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klashman69 said:
Wow. I read the last few pages and its just kinda sad really.

The negativity here is extreme. Its as if some people are so consumed with negativity. Lots of I.I.I... ME.ME.ME... Along with determination to talk about every fault out of context of the actual game and only about what they personally want.

I think some people literally wanted to see a match reminisent of Bradford City vs Sheffield United rather tha get a general consensus of the different ways the new game can be played in a 10 minute match.

What i dont get is its been clear this game was never going to be our perfect version of football but some dont even want to give it a chance.
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Who is asking for a perfect game? Is that the new excuse? I guess last year if we asked for not broken replays, we would be also asking for too much.

It's not about being positive or being negative, it's about being real.
PES sales keep declining and EA is stealing licenses left and right. If we want this series to keep existing we have to be honest about the shortcomings of the game.
Pretending everything is alright will only further bury the franchise.
 
klashman69 said:
Wow. I read the last few pages and its just kinda sad really.

The negativity here is extreme. Its as if some people are so consumed with negativity. Lots of I.I.I... ME.ME.ME... Along with determination to talk about every fault out of context of the actual game and only about what they personally want.

I think some people literally wanted to see a match reminisent of Bradford City vs Sheffield United rather tha get a general consensus of the different ways the new game can be played in a 10 minute match.

What i dont get is its been clear this game was never going to be our perfect version of football but some dont even want to give it a chance.
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Klash, old friend, I don't think we can generalize the group as being negative, it's more so constructively critical. We're football fans, as are you, and those that are there within PES[insert network/partner here] representations. We can't be denied of raising the tint of those nostalgia glasses, but I trust the majority of Evo-Web members are going to wait till the game is in their hands to truly pass judgement.

At the moment, it's video - and video is the medium that the majority of members watch their real life football. So if there is anything that steers away from the fundamentals of real life football, then naturally there will be an intent to identify those discrepancies. Some are more blunt, some are more tactical - but the message is still there.

The logic in some of those videos is highly questionable. Watch any football match, side by side, to PES 14-17, and any football fan would agree. That's the fundamental problem with not just PES, but FIFA and other sports games out there - with the exception of some outstanding titles like The Show, NFL2k5, CH2k8 and NBA2k.

I don't think anyone expected perfection, but they did expect that the core fundamentals of football would be accomplished. I do understand that KONAMI, as do EA, have to find a balance between Arcade and Sim - it just so happens that this PES demographic, this cult following of the nostalgia days, do not feel like we are the demographic anymore.

That's the underlying message that I personally get, from watching the videos. If we're way off, then we don't know any better, because we haven't played the full game - or seen it, but based on what has been seen, it's hard to argue it has not met the initial expectations; which was the whole point of showcasing the game this week.
 
klashman69 said:
Wow. I read the last few pages and its just kinda sad really.

The negativity here is extreme. Its as if some people are so consumed with negativity. Lots of I.I.I... ME.ME.ME... Along with determination to talk about every fault out of context of the actual game and only about what they personally want.

I think some people literally wanted to see a match reminisent of Bradford City vs Sheffield United rather tha get a general consensus of the different ways the new game can be played in a 10 minute match.

What i dont get is its been clear this game was never going to be our perfect version of football but some dont even want to give it a chance.

Long live the freedom of expression. Although i really think a few of us here have jumped the gun a bit.
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I actually think this version will be a good game from some of the videos. . I think the running animation looks better, dribbling (without the skating) is better. . passes through the air are better. . goalies are way better. . heading is better. . some ground passes bobble. . refs seem to be better. I think a lot of people were given the impression that it would be a Sim with methodical build up to break down Italian style defences and are disappointed. Klashman, Lelly said that the passing in the first playtest was different to this one ..in what way? And a couple of testers have said that the game was slower in the first test why did they change it? Did you ask the Pesuniverse guys?
 
I don't personally need to play the game myself to realise something that I can see in the videos. There's too much left from the past 5 games or so that makes me sad. I saw it coming, as many other people. I'm not surprised at all.
 
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