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PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

http://youtu.be/CXtRhtoSKoQ

Not sure if that's been posted here. That is vs A.I not sure about the difficulty though. Imo the game look like PES 16 but much slower and the referees has been fixed now. Also physicality and collision is better, camera replay is also good, not big fan of gameplay cam it's too far for my liking and it doesn't have broadcast feel to it. All in all, it's good gameplay, Can't wait for the demo.
 
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I don't think people watch real life football if they actually think the ball isn't realistic on PES this year. In real life the new balls are a lot more direct than before, meaning you won't see spins and the ball moving left and right, it's more direct and precise. I don't know why players want to see so many mistakes with passing, it's not realistic by the way, because all the teams that were played from what I saw are world class players, so I don't expect them to have so many mistakes, even tho I have seen some form other videos. I'm actually very positive, I was worried the game will be a lot slower, I don't like that, PES 5 and 6 weren't slow, so I don't know why people prefer slow gameplay. I think when people will play the game they will understand.
 
Banksy said:
Klashman,

Just calling it as I see and know one more then me wants to see konami nail it again.

That said it hasn't stopped me buying pes each year and even pes16 has its merits.

This isn't about cosmetics or animations,it's about delivering a product that's robust and polished and after to many false dawns and half baked games,I wanted to be impressed by the finer detail s(passing,ai,movement,situational awareness and all the tiny little details that make for just a better and more refined gaming experience).

Being objective not being negative..but come on three years or more they have had with the fox engine and the fruits of that are just better player faces and the superficial.Because on the surface not much else has changed.
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This is what i said a few months ago that we can't rely on companies to provide that perfect football experience.

I see whats there enjoy the positives and understand the negative to balance things out, but i always keep in mind the reality.

The context of these vids is a 3-4 hour playtest so the whole point is to enjoy and get a understanding of the new game early, i'm impressed but i know its very early days, still no demo or full game coming in 6 weeks when we can really see how good it truly is.
 
PalenAR said:
That is vs A.I not sure about the difficulty though. Imo the game look like PES 16 but much slower and the referees has been fixed now. Can't wait for the demo.
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Thanks for that – good find.

Sadly, it does not show that referees have been fixed now. The AI conceded 1 free kick in the whole match. This is the same as PES2016. The problem with fouls in recent editions of PES isn't that there are literally none (although there are plenty of matches where that is the case). It's that there are just a token 1 or 2 per match and nothing else. As I expected, PES2017 seems to be exactly the same based on the evidence of all today's vids.

I did see the AI shooting with a bit more variety though.
 
Keith Houchen said:
Thanks for that – good find.

Sadly, it does not show that referees have been fixed now. The AI conceded 1 free kick in the whole match. This is the same as PES2016. The problem with fouls in recent editions of PES isn't that there are literally none (although there are plenty of matches where that is the case). It's that there are just a token 1 or 2 per match and nothing else. As I expected, PES2017 seems to be exactly the same based on the evidence of all today's vids.

I did see the AI shooting with a bit more variety though.
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3 fouls from barcelona and 2 from Atletico. I must say it's better than 2016. Referees in last year PES doesn't call foul at all and the adavantage rule is broken. Based on the video I've posted it's much better but not perfect. Also notice the passes completed 65% for barcelona 75% for Atletico, I mean that is good news, PES 16 passing percentage is really high last year.
 
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klashman69 said:
I'd recommend if you watch the video again to notice the new tactical instructions and see how in certain situations, players are going too far by putting too many of them on, causing the formation to become imbalanced and allowing space for the opposition.

One of the most important things about tactics is holistic understanding, don't do too many things at once which contradict eachover. I'm not criticising you here at all. Its just one of those things when you look for so many things in a short video.

Then again its 3-4 hour playtest so you would expect most matches for players to be experimenting.
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fair answer, it's actually something I didn't pay attention to so I will look at it again.

i'm big on tactics when I play so when i have the game at hand I will be looking at what happens and looking to see if i can find a way to adapt to it tactically. it's hard to watch a video when you have no control over what's happening and you can see glaring problems. i guess a this pre-release stage you are trying to take in as much as possible and it's hard to tell what's good, what's bad and if there are reasons for either. demo can't come soon enough.
 
klashman69 said:
Not sure man, most of the vids i saw where human vs human. I heard good things about the AI vs the CPU although if you have 3-4 hours to play the game you would want to focus on playing against people rather than the AI.
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I know you are a hero in the community, but I disagree.

Konami/whoever invited people to play this should have ensured that there were gamers to cater for the whole market. Not just the online crew to tr and nab sales from FIFA... as we all know thats the only reason people play FIFA is its online modes.

PES used to be (to me) all about offline and how you could really sink hours into playing the AI because it worked and felt right. Yes local 1v1 was brilliant, but the longevity of the game came in Master League or whatever.

I appreciate times have changed and the world wants instant gratification, everyone wants to be a youtube star etc - but for joe bloggs on the street, all we want is a chance to see the PES AI in action 'properly'.

All these 1v1 videos look nice and shiny and well done to those who did them. But none of my concerns about the game have been alleviated. Infact the only AI video ive seen so far is that 7-1 thumping of Atletico which pretty much was a waste of time... so im assuming that was on a low level with a fair bit of assistance, given that everything he did was on point.

I just wanted a player vs AI game, as manual as the player can cope with, against an AI professional or higher, so I can see if the AI defends better, dosent give up space through the middle and has variety not just in attack, but in shooting. I dont care if its a doggy 0-0 with 1 shot on goal, as long as that is an effort from the AI that is not lasered into the bottom corner.

I am happy to wait for the demo, but for me, Konami missed a trick here and if its deliberate or not, just seems a bit silly to miss out some of the key concerns from PES16 in a viewable format.

Dont get me wrong, I want my concerns to be alleviated... I want Konami to show those videos and answer those questions with visible answers.

To moan at people on here for having concerns (not aimed at you btw) is wrong, as alot of them will be like me, just wanting to know if the AI can play a game of football and not be a 'dud' like it was in 16. Its not wrong to want evidence of things that this Bhatti and Tanvir state in interviews.
 
Banksy said:
Still moves in a rigid un-organic way and the animation transitions look clunky and obvious..

In static shots it looks stunning but it doesn't flow in a realistic way..

The stumbling animations and collisions still look stiff and awkward.

Looks to me that the breif was better graphics and lifelike faces with not to much work applied to where it's really needed..I want to be optimistic but nothing really impressed me..

More of the same with minor tweaks.Looks even more arcade like and watered down.
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I agree, they overlook the worse thing, this game doesn't look like a real football game... players movements looked better in 2015.

Just Dreadful!:COAT:
 
My impressions on the first video was like, meh.. Nothing really new.

The more I watch new video, the more I like it:

Im convinced its a good improvement over Pes2016. Pace is slower, and thats great, but the game being slower is an obligatory change and its nowhere need enough to justify another 60 bucks.

Bit as I said, Im liking the more the more I watch it. One thing that is very positive to me is that I hardly see any ugly, non sense pass animation. Passing animations as a whole had a decent improvemen. I love some o those long air ball passing to switch plays.

Ball physics also do seem to be improved, ball looks more free, it rolls more natural on the pitch, it doesnt seem to be too stuck on the ground. Shooting also seems to ve improved with more variety and more chance of error wich is nice. Ive seen a long shot from long distance, the ball bounced very realistic in front of Neuer -land went in, it looked realistic and its goal I've never seen in PES for a loooong time.

Butnthe biggest imprivement seems to be AI collectively. The way the midfield recompose and keep in shape, well organized is great, also theres a more sense of urgency in the final third, players pressure and close gaps quickly to avoid shooting from outside the box.

Als, The only penalty kick I've seen the shooting animation was nice (finally), and the ball wasnt ridiculously slow and floaty(finally 2x).

Refs seem to be great so far. They are calling fouls for normal tackles, not just slide tackles, and they give a red card when deserved. Well play.

Goalkeepers also look mucb improved. Better reaction times, somw new nice animations, nice double saves, and they parry the ball away from the box in a realistic manner.

So so far it looks good. My only complaints are two:

- it still have that PES 2016 dna. What I mean here is that player movement on the ball, even tho is better than PES 2016, it still similar. Players still glide a bit too much when dribbling in tight pace with the ball to glued to their feet. Dribbling/player movement still needs work. Unfortunetly, it seems that the quick gliding turns are here to stay for the sake of "control responsiveness" (bullshit, control responsiveness was good enough on PES 2015 wich had a very decent player movement on the ball).

- Passing accuracy still has the PES 2016 dna also. When players abuse quick first time passes with 1-2 combined, it still creats easy chances and its problamatic to defend against. Still very arcade on this aspect.
 
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PalenAR said:
http://youtu.be/CXtRhtoSKoQ

Not sure if that's been posted here. That is vs A.I not sure about the difficulty though. Imo the game look like PES 16 but much slower and the referees has been fixed now. Also physicality and collision is better, camera replay is also good, not big fan of gameplay cam it's too far for my liking and it doesn't have broadcast feel to it. All in all, it's good gameplay, Can't wait for the demo.
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This is the video I was after manual and on superstar, AI took variety of shots on goal, passing is better. Also game wasn't that fast on this video so I would imagine it would be even slower when played in person. Looking forward to the demo.
 
I have been an extremely hard critic of the game and i can say I'm legitimately pleased by the videos so far. You can see acceleration is better and there is legitimate difference between agile and unagile players. The ball physics are much better, shots are toned down. For me It's obvious this will be different from pes 16. More considered build up, weightier, better dribbling.. might just do it.
 
mehuk said:
I know you are a hero in the community, but I disagree.

Konami/whoever invited people to play this should have ensured that there were gamers to cater for the whole market. Not just the online crew to tr and nab sales from FIFA... as we all know thats the only reason people play FIFA is its online modes.

PES used to be (to me) all about offline and how you could really sink hours into playing the AI because it worked and felt right. Yes local 1v1 was brilliant, but the longevity of the game came in Master League or whatever.

I appreciate times have changed and the world wants instant gratification, everyone wants to be a youtube star etc - but for joe bloggs on the street, all we want is a chance to see the PES AI in action 'properly'.

All these 1v1 videos look nice and shiny and well done to those who did them. But none of my concerns about the game have been alleviated. Infact the only AI video ive seen so far is that 7-1 thumping of Atletico which pretty much was a waste of time... so im assuming that was on a low level with a fair bit of assistance, given that everything he did was on point.

I just wanted a player vs AI game, as manual as the player can cope with, against an AI professional or higher, so I can see if the AI defends better, dosent give up space through the middle and has variety not just in attack, but in shooting. I dont care if its a doggy 0-0 with 1 shot on goal, as long as that is an effort from the AI that is not lasered into the bottom corner.

I am happy to wait for the demo, but for me, Konami missed a trick here and if its deliberate or not, just seems a bit silly to miss out some of the key concerns from PES16 in a viewable format.

Dont get me wrong, I want my concerns to be alleviated... I want Konami to show those videos and answer those questions with visible answers.

To moan at people on here for having concerns (not aimed at you btw) is wrong, as alot of them will be like me, just wanting to know if the AI can play a game of football and not be a 'dud' like it was in 16. Its not wrong to want evidence of things that this Bhatti and Tanvir state in interviews.
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Great post and kudos..
 
PalenAR said:
Not sure if that's been posted here. That is vs A.I not sure about the difficulty though. Imo the game look like PES 16 but much slower and the referees has been fixed now. Also physicality and collision is better, camera replay is also good, not big fan of gameplay cam it's too far for my liking and it doesn't have broadcast feel to it. All in all, it's good gameplay, Can't wait for the demo.
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I enjoyed it but my concerns include:

1 - Torres goal, bottom corner on a tupence, is that going to be the inside the box 'standard' once more.
2 - Godins booking, just seemed a bit off to book him but not give a free kick there. Can be subjective but the cross was a dud, so no advantage imo - but thats being picky and I dont even think I should post it, but im going to as it cropped up straight to my mind.

Outside of that though, looks a bit tighter by the AI defensively, keeper looked nice, I liked his gamble to the edge of the box at one point. A long range ping from the AI at one point, a bit light but still, it was there. Still a little bit of fanny from the AI at times when in good positions, id rather them be direct, again could be difficutly.

Late effort from Atletico again going low, keeper makes a save though which is nicer. The follow up volley looked good, but I saw them in 16, probably the only non-bottom corner stuff they did once in a bluemoon.

Im a bit happier as it seemed tighter overall, still not 100% sold on the AI shooting variety but its a start.

More videos v AI please.
 
P34SEMM said:
I haven't played it obviously but i don't see any difference to PES16.

every pass is perfect

no fouls

skating

too many tricks and flicks - that Neymar goal (1st vid above) is horrible.

no midfield - whats worrying in that first pes universe video is that he says Madrid are playing deep and and have a compact middle - but there's no one in the middle. So many gaps.


Does anyone here who played a ton of PES16 see any difference?

Ill wait for demo before I give my proper opinion but the above is what I see.
However, the game does look visually stunning.
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Just have to say you see what i see. Very true i see 2016 a lot here.
 
Banksy said:
Klashman,

Being objective not being negative..but come on three years or more they have had with the fox engine and the fruits of that are just better player faces and the superficial.Because on the surface not much else has changed.
Click to expand...

100% agree. If i built a football game, it would look like a football game first, than i would make it play like one. These developers leader needs to be replaced by somebody who has priority's straight.
 
PalenAR said:
3 fouls from barcelona and 2 from Atletico. I must say it's better than 2016. Referees in last year PES doesn't call foul at all and the adavantage rule is broken. Based on the video I've posted it's much better but not perfect. Also notice the passes completed 65% for barcelona 75% for Atletico, I mean that is good news, PES 16 passing percentage is really high last year.
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I can foul in PES 2016 but I can rarely be fouled, and this is the essence of the problem. The fouling threshold is set so generously that it encourages the sort of all-in kung fu 'thrash metal football' that people 'play' online. I knew it could never be changed now so I'm not surprised to see it hasn't been.

We should never have expected anything different really. For PES to exist at all these days it has to be commercially viable, and this constantly flowing, frenzied action is what the public wants.
 
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Bond!JamesBond! said:
100% agree. If i built a football game, it would look like a football game first, than i would make it play like one. These developers leader needs to be replaced by somebody who has priority's straight.
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Just not convinced by the ai generally,still for me a rehash of teamvision and a lot of old elements and components with fox graphics,lighting and havoc physics bolted on..

Not cohesive and at times a little disjointed.

Think they missed a trick and for two generations have failed to embrace modern tech and change..

For me it's seems the ethos is get it to look as good as we can and play within the limitations of the dated technology we are using.The formula is becoming more dated,more watered down but it does look the part..
 
It's starting to grow on me. I can visualise all manual -1 Superstar in my head and it could be good.
 
the demo can't come soon enough.
i want to feel everything myself.
it looks good. things seem to work. that has to be the key. some seem to forget that. i have to be able to play my style of football. my tactics. so everything needs to work. sometimes that means that animations won't look that cool or smooth but i'd rather have that to some extend instead of my input not working on the pitch. players need to have some weight. i need to be able to counter a move or attack if i read it right. if i don't then i need to fail and not blame the game or glitch in the game
so i have to feel this game.
at the moment it looks good. looks improved (though not much but sometimes little tweaks make big differences)
demo will help me decide if its a real improvement.
 
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The Barcelona-Atletico game was a nice change of pace from all the human vs human matches and I thought it looked really nice. Fouls were called when they should've been and the AI defended well.

As someone else noted, a bit worried about the Torres goal and if that'll be the AI standard when inside the box, but other than that I'm kind of excited now.
 
RAMAXWY said:
the demo can't come soon enough.
i want to feel everything myself.
it looks good. things seem to work. that has to be the key. some seem to forget that. i have to be able to play my style of football. my tactics. so everything needs to work. sometimes that means that animations won't look that cool or smooth but i'd rather have that to some extend instead of my input not working on the pitch. players need to have some weight. i need to be able to counter a move or attack if i read it right. if i don't then i need to fail and not blame the game or glitch in the game
so i have to feel this game.
at the moment it looks good. looks improved (though not much but sometimes little tweaks make big differences)
demo will help me decide if its a real improvement.
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I'd echo that..but I still think it's a cop out to imply space and gaps,passive awareness are all directly attributed to just difficulty,bad players,tactics or lack of tactical awareness from the user..spraying balls,blindly leaving gaps and just being direct should have the opposite effect,not make me game more open or easier to score..

Plus by default,if the ai is good,it should still be reasonably intelligent on the lower levels and force the user to play properly,building and not forcing the play.

I look forward to the demo..
 
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I'm confident that this will be a significant improvement over PES 2016, simply by having made a few key tweaks. I still feel it's a major oversight for the higher pass assist levels to simply be more accurate - in my eyes, if you don't want any manual error, then you should have automatic error in it's place - but if pass assist actually makes a difference this time then that's a big plus. It does mean that online will be imbalanced against randoms though. I wish that playing with different assist levels would mean you earn more or fewer points for each result...


I know that people complain that the game is robotic, or forces you to run in certain directions. But, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's the best thing about PES. That's what means it's not just a huge swathe of players running this way and that at the flick of a switch. That's why a player running left while everyone else runs right has a huge headstart, and can catch a defence unawares. That's why you, as a defender, can try and shepherd a player into the corner, or why you can pass in triangles to try and unstitch a tight defence. That's why laying off to a teammate who is facing the right way is so important. FIFA has been too fluid, too free of this clever use of physical momentum in a lot of respects. It tries to apply momentum as a general thing which acts in every direction almost equally - and as a result it loses the sophistication that comes with PES's need to manipulate angles.


Currently, the tactical options look fantastic, the pace looks much better and the overall play seems like it will be less chaotic. There are definitely things to work on for the future but I can deal with that, as long as the game is balanced. I'm not expecting this to be a 10/10 game but I am at the point where I'm expecting it to be worth more than a couple of months of my time. And I want a steady footing for the series to then work out how to get passing set up perfectly.
 
Banksy said:
I'd echo that..but I still think it's a cop out to imply space and gaps,passive awareness are all directly attributed to just difficulty,bad players,tactics or lack of tactical awareness from the user..spraying balls,blindly leaving gaps and just being direct should have the opposite effect,not make me game more open or easier to score..

Plus by default,if the ai is good,it should still be reasonably intelligent on the lower levels and force the user to play properly,building and not forcing the play.
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that's why we need the demo:COOL:
when you watch videos they sometimes give you the feeling that everything is in place.
FIFA has been doing that to me for years now.
not everything that shines is gold.
niet alles dat blinkt is goud :SMUG::COOL:
 
romagnoli said:
I'm confident that this will be a significant improvement over PES 2016, simply by having made a few key tweaks. I still feel it's a major oversight for the higher pass assist levels to simply be more accurate - in my eyes, if you don't want any manual error, then you should have automatic error in it's place - but if pass assist actually makes a difference this time then that's a big plus. It does mean that online will be imbalanced against randoms though. I wish that playing with different assist levels would mean you earn more or fewer points for each result...


I know that people complain that the game is robotic, or forces you to run in certain directions. But, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's the best thing about PES. That's what means it's not just a huge swathe of players running this way and that at the flick of a switch. That's why a player running left while everyone else runs right has a huge headstart, and can catch a defence unawares. That's why you, as a defender, can try and shepherd a player into the corner, or why you can pass in triangles to try and unstitch a tight defence. That's why laying off to a teammate who is facing the right way is so important. FIFA has been too fluid, too free of this clever use of physical momentum in a lot of respects. It tries to apply momentum as a general thing which acts in every direction almost equally - and as a result it loses the sophistication that comes with PES's need to manipulate angles.


Currently, the tactical options look fantastic, the pace looks much better and the overall play seems like it will be less chaotic. There are definitely things to work on for the future but I can deal with that, as long as the game is balanced. I'm not expecting this to be a 10/10 game but I am at the point where I'm expecting it to be worth more than a couple of months of my time. And I want a steady footing for the series to then work out how to get passing set up perfectly.
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guys these are just my words. i was just helped out by my long lost twin brother.:WORSHIP:
 
adaptive ai is one of the features and it claims that ai will learn how you play
Its disappointing that there are too little videos testing the ai
and from those videos I don't find anything about the adaptive ai
 
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