PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Flame said:
lol two years ago, I saw the same recruitment from konami
don't think it can save our game, now you can still find obvious mistakes in the stats
also there are things that related to stats but I think the editor could not improve or I should say konami didn't listen and change, things are missing stats like acceleration, responsiveness etc
and the fluid formation, the game introduced it in 2015 for the first time and emphasized the importance
unfortunately they didn't develop well on this or they just didn't care about
on the web there are people like klashman who care about tactics, they show that with fluid formation, position change, other stats and playstyle change, those things could easily bring the game to another level
just shame that konami didn't make good use of them
in default game, the fluid formation in the same team are almost the same in kick off, in possession, out of possession and the playstyle of teams wouldn't change during any update
leicester in default still playing possess football and short pass lol, just an example showed that no matter what happened in real life, they just wouldn't change atk/def instructions for teams
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Like i said before, instead of rating some players stats by stats, they need to re-create a brand new system of rating, like in the past, with "standards sets".
A bit like Fifa's having: for example you'll never see a lightweight players with more than 55 in Strength, but he will be well rated in "balance", or for example the "Offensive Positionning" have a scale of 10 to 70 for a CB.

There's by the way many stats weirdly rated, for example Kicking Power and technical stats for CB's especially for lower league, they're way too low.
But, the teams in their overall are not that bad represented and the program used to create stats by EA, with their limitations doesn't show us very obvious mistake, only arguable ratings.

When you can't rate players by players because there's not as much data available on internet, you could always rate the whole team performance.

And yes, i pointed out every mistakes which needed to be corrected, but where can i adress it to be taken seriously?
 
Mehtab said:
Do stats even make much of a difference at all?
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good question, even stats are well designed, the game itself may not, eg pass support killed the passing stats
there are only manual and assisted pass now
back to 2013 pass support lv1 was balanced between manual and assisted
shooting is similar too, no big difference between good and bad players at all
I still think fluid formation, player positions, playstyle etc are more important than stats at this moment
but from what I have heard, data editor duties are not about those things and konami seemed not care about too
 
Dont know where the myth that there is no shooting or passing difference between players started. When a player has time and space, there is no reason he shouldnt pass or shoot good, even if he is a 65 passer or shooter. Hes still a professional footballer (but there are still players (in real football and also in PES), who simply cant cannon the ball from 30 metres and its ok this way). You guys seem to want every worse player pass out of bounds and shoot into the parking lot and every good player to make every pass perfect and every shot into the corner.
Where the difference comes into mind (and can be clearly seen) is when the passing/shooting position isnt ideal, when there is no much place or time. Plus there is difference for example that good passsers can curl passes, pass with backheel etc. There is a huge difference when playing as Real Madrid or Osasuna. It just feels different. For me its working good :)
 
I stopped playing PES 2017 back in October when I was Chelsea and I beat Barca by 3-0 with my team having 65% Possession and 30 shots while Barca had 1 and they had around 70% Pass completion. And then I played against Hull City and got smashed 5-1 and they had around 20 shots and 98% pass completion and 64% possession. And you say, what was the difference between the two teams? The team spirit. Messi was easier to defender than the hull city wingers. I don't know how it is now and if they fixed it or not but that was game breaking for me.
 
Matt10 said:
Hey, guys. Branching off of what I was talking about earlier, trying to find a way for those of you that can't modify the computer's tactics or can't be bothered to change every team in edit mode, or are just too deep in your competition to turn back now. This video addresses that and is focused to make changes for the user only. The results are great, and introduce another level of proper positioning that definitely isn't there without it. Let me know your thoughts!


Code: 
►►► Detailed Steps:►►►

1 - Enable Fluid Formations: "On"
2 - Change Formation - Select the Out of Possession
3 - Change the "Out of Possession" formation into the "In Possession" formation
4 - Do the same for Kick Off formation
5 - Check to see if All-Out defense is not selected in Defensive instructions
6 - Go to Lineup/Edit position
7 - Use right analog and change any DMFs in the "Kick Off" or "Out of Possession" to CMFs.
8 - Use right analog and change any CMF in the "Out of Possession" to DMF's.
9 - You're done!! Enjoy!!
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Good afternoon gentlemen, and happy new year to you all.

Been a few months since I last posted.

Have been away from PES for a good couple of months on account work commitments and me finally deciding to fully commit to Bloodborne. What a game that is, and actually gave me a few ideas for football games while I was playing.

Hadn't touch either PES or FIFA until last night and today. Was down my mates last night who just swears by FIFA no matter what and I played a few games and hated it, but my concern was that I might just find football games annoying in general, so headed up the road and stuck on PES. Was good, but just a few wee things were irritating me about the COM AI.

Came across this post from Matt this morning and wow! While it doesn't iron everything out, it does make quite the difference.

I promised myself I would start the year getting through a backlog of games I have amassed thanks to the amazing PSN sales over December in January but thanks to this little bit of advice from Matt I am in danger of getting sucked back in completely again.

The break from the game was good, but coming back and finding folk are still getting enjoyment and still making wee discoveries is pleasing to see.

Ach, good ol' PES.
 
Elja said:
I just found that advanced shooting brings more variety to the shooting. Turning off the target guide makes it even better and unpredictable. Basic/manual shooting feels boring for me because of the same type of shots
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Advanced Shooting all the way for me too. So much more variety as you say, and it does make shooting that little bit more challenging into the bargain, and not in a bad way.
 
Mehtab said:
I stopped playing PES 2017 back in October when I was Chelsea and I beat Barca by 3-0 with my team having 65% Possession and 30 shots while Barca had 1 and they had around 70% Pass completion. And then I played against Hull City and got smashed 5-1 and they had around 20 shots and 98% pass completion and 64% possession. And you say, what was the difference between the two teams? The team spirit. Messi was easier to defender than the hull city wingers. I don't know how it is now and if they fixed it or not but that was game breaking for me.
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I think many ppl experienced the same case
strong team in the game sometimes mess up and give you a easy win, then a weak team can give you the hardest time in the game lmao, it makes me think that they are set to mess up or become unbeatable because of some programming(dunno what to call)
everytime this weird shit makes me stop playing the game for a few days
 
Flame said:
I think many ppl experienced the same case
strong team in the game sometimes mess up and give you a easy win, then a weak team can give you the hardest time in the game lmao, it makes me think that they are set to mess up or become unbeatable because of some programming(dunno what to call)
everytime this weird shit makes me stop playing the game for a few days
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I don't know why PES is going the FIFA route of AI scripting/staging/handicapping/overpowering to get a cinematic and "dynamic" football experience. The reason why FIFA does it is due to their poorly written AI but PES's AI is actually pretty good and dynamic to begin with. I really don't understand.
 
Veprikator said:
Dont know where the myth that there is no shooting or passing difference between players started. When a player has time and space, there is no reason he shouldnt pass or shoot good, even if he is a 65 passer or shooter. Hes still a professional footballer (but there are still players (in real football and also in PES), who simply cant cannon the ball from 30 metres and its ok this way). You guys seem to want every worse player pass out of bounds and shoot into the parking lot and every good player to make every pass perfect and every shot into the corner.
Where the difference comes into mind (and can be clearly seen) is when the passing/shooting position isnt ideal, when there is no much place or time. Plus there is difference for example that good passsers can curl passes, pass with backheel etc. There is a huge difference when playing as Real Madrid or Osasuna. It just feels different. For me its working good :)
Click to expand...

Ideally that's how it'd work. But I'm not so sure I'm seeing this in the game. I mean, all these things seem to be there when you respect the law of physics when you play and play the game carefully. But you can certainly just point and click and see no importance in stats at all as well. There just isn't enough errors and mistakes at all, and I'm not sure if stats actually matters in some situations.


 
vxcmplx said:
Ideally that's how it'd work. But I'm not so sure I'm seeing this in the game. I mean, all these things seem to be there when you respect the law of physics when you play and play the game carefully. But you can certainly just point and click and see no importance in stats at all as well. There just isn't enough errors and mistakes at all, and I'm not sure if stats actually matters in some situations.


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The game flatters to deceive. Pes is made to be easy to master so it appeals to all. Passing, shooting is all very basic too, lacking swerve, dip and realistic movement. It feels too generic and dull.
 
vxcmplx said:
Ideally that's how it'd work. But I'm not so sure I'm seeing this in the game. I mean, all these things seem to be there when you respect the law of physics when you play and play the game carefully. But you can certainly just point and click and see no importance in stats at all as well. There just isn't enough errors and mistakes at all, and I'm not sure if stats actually matters in some situations.


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People uses to say that old gen passing is too much "on rails" but I bet anything with anyone, if someone could do this kind of passing on PES 5.
 
Veprikator said:
Dont know where the myth that there is no shooting or passing difference between players started. When a player has time and space, there is no reason he shouldnt pass or shoot good, even if he is a 65 passer or shooter. Hes still a professional footballer (but there are still players (in real football and also in PES), who simply cant cannon the ball from 30 metres and its ok this way). You guys seem to want every worse player pass out of bounds and shoot into the parking lot and every good player to make every pass perfect and every shot into the corner.
Where the difference comes into mind (and can be clearly seen) is when the passing/shooting position isnt ideal, when there is no much place or time. Plus there is difference for example that good passsers can curl passes, pass with backheel etc. There is a huge difference when playing as Real Madrid or Osasuna. It just feels different. For me its working good :)
Click to expand...

Have you played older PES games?
 
If I try to do a blind pass or shoot off balance it doesnt work.

I must have that special fanboy edition :D seriously though I don't know how but I notice players misplacing passes or shooting wobbly on 1 bar assist and basic shooting.
 
Veprikator said:
Dont know where the myth that there is no shooting or passing difference between players started. When a player has time and space, there is no reason he shouldnt pass or shoot good, even if he is a 65 passer or shooter. Hes still a professional footballer (but there are still players (in real football and also in PES), who simply cant cannon the ball from 30 metres and its ok this way). You guys seem to want every worse player pass out of bounds and shoot into the parking lot and every good player to make every pass perfect and every shot into the corner.
Where the difference comes into mind (and can be clearly seen) is when the passing/shooting position isnt ideal, when there is no much place or time. Plus there is difference for example that good passsers can curl passes, pass with backheel etc. There is a huge difference when playing as Real Madrid or Osasuna. It just feels different. For me its working good :)
Click to expand...

Good post, one thing that does need fixing is the low hard passes, even the average professional footballer can't pass hard directly to the feet of a player, also controlling a hard pass to the player has to be fixed, cos that's broken atm. As for the passing and shooting they need to program a variable arc to where the ball is being shot or passed at, for example having a passer at 70 aiming directly at the feet shouldn't happen depending on the distance , should most of the time be to the right or left of the player, only the special passers can pass direct and hard, Konami also need to fix first time pass and shot, that still needs a lot of work, one thing that does annoy me sometimes with this game is the ridiculous first time shots from a ridiculus position the CPU AI does but I'm sure bhatti is aware of this and I have hope with him giving direction to the Konami team.
 
For all those guys that get frustrated with the game I highly recommend you try this you won't be disappointed, start a new ML but don't focus on names when you buy players, focus on passion, higher the bar the better, makes a huge difference to the way the game plays and flows, give it a crack if lid like to know what experiment you guys get from this unless of course most already know this.
 
zeemeister said:
Also can't understand why they got rid of that I remember the AI using it to screw you over though lol. So your number 1 striker should get an offer and you obviously font want to sell him and he becomes all mopey on the football pitch and just about a liability.

They should reintroduce and refine.
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Yes I remember that too. Really keep it and refine and add to it if you have it working. Don't get rid of it. Anything that adds to ML to make it come to life is a plus to me.
 
zeemeister said:
If I try to do a blind pass or shoot off balance it doesnt work.

I must have that special fanboy edition :D seriously though I don't know how but I notice players misplacing passes or shooting wobbly on 1 bar assist and basic shooting.
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There is a bit of error on passing and shooting but for me thats not the issue its when the AI overrides you thats the issue. This is mainly on shooting. One of my examples a few pages back with going one on one with sturridge. All lined up to curl far post , ball on his right foot . I press shoot modifier to side foot and it overides and toe pokes with left into net..it looked all wrong and i got nothing from it as that wasnt what i instructed him to do..there's loads of other examples , basic shooting for me just feels empty..now manual and manual over ride is something completely different
 
Also, you dont needed to use finess shot button to hit the ball with inside of the foot. It was about body position and how much you fill the power bar. Then I ask myself, how can old game have all this intricacies and now the game is so basic and shallow?

I remember Seabass, when asked about his prefer football player and he said that he likes very much Alvaro Recoba. Seabass was a football fan and he knows that every players have their importance. He knows the sport. Now this game is all about stars players and becoming very commercial with fancy soundtrack and sh...!

My only hope now is that some good.soul have the idea and the good will to made a indie football game, open source like Rfactor, where you can edit pretty much everything and with some good gameplay.
 
Mehtab said:
PES 2017 gives you an illusion of a good football game but it's actually pretty deceptive. As it has been proven multiple times with how stats have little to no influence and how team results and performance are so random.
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very true , i tested this for last month . Friendly match and green form. doesnt matter i play 1 stars team or 5 stars- perfect passes ,crosses , perfect shoots , and perfect ball control . Another big issue are ,,scripted goals'' , especially from crosses. It's so easy and looks so fake. I want players feeeling from pes 3 or pes5 , not 22 clones on pitch.
 
I was thinking that I was the only old pes player that don't think that this game is the best football game of all time. I was starting to think that is me that is not playing this game right.
 
Danny Henry said:
Also, you dont needed to use finess shot button to hit the ball with inside of the foot. It was about body position and how much you fill the power bar. Then I ask myself, how can old game have all this intricacies and now the game is so basic and shallow?

I remember Seabass, when asked about his prefer football player and he said that he likes very much Alvaro Recoba. Seabass was a football fan and he knows that every players have their importance. He knows the sport. Now this game is all about stars players and becoming very commercial with fancy soundtrack and sh...!

My only hope now is that some good.soul have the idea and the good will to made a indie football game, open source like Rfactor, where you can edit pretty much everything and with some good gameplay.
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Aah good ole Alvaro recoba. In my myclub games there is a commentary section that they talk about a legendary left footer when you use certain left-footed players. They refer to a "legendary Uruguayan" but not by his name with a cultured left foot or something like that. Will try to save it if ever they mention it again.
 
fmicablues7 said:
Back to we9le, i said guys ! :PP
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i dont think u have to be that critical of this game, its still a joy a to play when it plays right i did a comeback vs italy on superstar back from 0_1 to 2 1 and there was one scrappy goal inside the box, it was so satisfying to score that one because it gave me the randomness feeling i felt with older pes
 
ramgamer said:
i dont think u have to be that critical of this game, its still a joy a to play when it plays right i did a comeback vs italy on superstar back from 0_1 to 2 1 and there was one scrappy goal inside the box, it was so satisfying to score that one because it gave me the randomness feeling i felt with older pes
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To say that we9le is slightly better than pes 2017, is actually a compliment to pes 2017. Still not we9le near-perfect balance, but good game.
 
Has anyone done the AFCON teams yet or is it all waiting for the next update from Konami and seeing how it messes up duplicates and whatnot before the editors sort their patches out?
 
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