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PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Yes but we are in a bit of a crisis and more and more people are starting to doubt our coach. There are rumopurs that he will put our most influential player on the bench (Kevin De Bruyne). If that is true, Ireland should be able to win the match...
 
gerd said:
Yes but we are in a bit of a crisis and more and more people are starting to doubt our coach. There are rumopurs that he will put our most influential player on the bench (Kevin De Bruyne). If that is true, Ireland should be able to win the match...
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That in fighting stuff never turns out well. we'll have to see how it turns out.
 
Chris Davies said:
(I'm pretty sure FIFA aren't looking at fixing the tactical issues, so I don't think I'll be happy on the FIFA front this year).
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I don't get why EA pretty much completely ignore the tactical side of the game. It's like making Madden without the plays.

I love PES's fluid formation. And at least with PES 17 it sounds like proper formations can be set up and shared.
 
shilts said:
I don't get why EA pretty much completely ignore the tactical side of the game. It's like making Madden without the plays.
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I was thinking exactly that yesterday - as someone who knows nothing about American football but likes sport, I try to play Madden every year and come unstuck because I don't know enough about what plays work against what set-ups. So, as a casual, I can't really play it.

Whereas, FIFA (and especially Ultimate Team)... If you understand that 85 is a bigger number than 84 (and therefore can pick the best overall-rated players for your team's default formation), you don't have to worry about anything else, from a set-up standpoint.

Why?
 
shilts said:
I don't get why EA pretty much completely ignore the tactical side of the game. It's like making Madden without the plays.

I love PES's fluid formation. And at least with PES 17 it sounds like proper formations can be set up and shared.
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because it's the most money making cash cow there is.
they make around a half a billion a year off this game.
there best seller
 
Chris Davies said:
This, for me personally, is so true. It's why I "switched" to FIFA 13 - although it's worth noting that A) I've never really "switched", I buy both games every year and I think I always will, or I feel like I might be missing out on something that needs a bigger time investment to shine, and B) ironically, I rediscovered PES 2013 earlier this year, and it's probably my favourite PES game of all.

For me though, FIFA 13 deleted the rails that I always felt shackled to in the older games and in PES, and it didn't glue me to the floor at any point - something PES still does to this day - and I felt truly in control. Over time, of course, you realise the ways in which you aren't.

(Also, at the time, the lack of those "rails" made any kind of tactical importance more difficult to code, I'd imagine.)

My biggest complaint with the old-school PES games was that I didn't feel in control of my own players, especially against the better (AI) opponents. It's clearly not the same for everyone (or PES wouldn't sell), but that feeling of being able to move your player wherever you wanted without interference, and not feeling like you could only score when the game "allowed" you to, was breathtaking for me - and that freedom difference is still there (again, for me, personally), and it's why PES is still an exercise in frustration, for me.

PES 2017 sounds great, and the previews sound much more promising than the FIFA ones, so I just hope that full-control-feeling is there this year. If it is, and there's a bigger variety of goals, I'll be very happy (I'm pretty sure FIFA aren't looking at fixing the tactical issues, so I don't think I'll be happy on the FIFA front this year).
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FIFA 13 is quite the change, Chris? I couldn't stand it because the pace was ridiculous. It took editing the DB (PC version) significantly, to get it to play anything remotely decent. Here is what it looked like with the combo of sliders and the DB editing (old video, sorry for quality of audio):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwXIGghtQE0

Not terrible, but more ice-skating than PES16.

My personal preference, in terms of what was the best PES since the "golden days" of PES 3-6 (including WE9LE), was PES 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VberEkrTZvU

I do agree with you though. The older PES, now, is not appealing. The ease of passing, the ease of space between players (even with the gameplay mods, etc) and the very rigid directional control, it's definitely time for something new. The fox engine is very promising. I am very excited to see KONAMI's fourth attempt at it - and hopefully they have learned enough to get the basics of common football sense down.
 
I think the problem with Pes is not about getting the common sense stuff right . . .it all went wrong when they boldly tried something innovative with Pes 2014 and released it half finished and then tried to go back to the basics of the old Pes with Pes 2015. . .and then tried to accommodate and win over fifa fans with what they thought was an appealing game for the casual player with Pes 2016 . .. and after feedback from hard core Pes players this year are trying to win back the people who prefer a sim because Fifa apparently tried it with Fifa 2016 and Pes lost a good few fans to that.

To sum up I don't think that they actually know which direction to take and are chancing their arm each year. It's a case of let's wait and see the response to each game.
 
Deco said:
I think the problem with Pes is not about getting the common sense stuff right . . .it all went wrong when they boldly tried something innovative with Pes 2014 and released it half finished and then tried to go back to the basics of the old Pes with Pes 2015. . .and then tried to accommodate and win over fifa fans with what they thought was an appealing game for the casual player with Pes 2016 . .. and after feedback from hard core Pes players this year are trying to win back the people who prefer a sim because Fifa apparently tried it with Fifa 2016 and Pes lost a good few fans to that.

To sum up I don't think that they actually know which direction to take and are chancing their arm each year. It's a case of let's wait and see the response to each game.
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Sorry, it's a lot of common sense stuff. From outside backs running on dead sprints back to their spot, defending players not staying in front of receivers, perfect passing all over the pitch, fouls, the list goes on and on. These are common football sense values - and their importance cannot be understated.

The beauty of PES is what the hardcore fans loved, the common football sense values that made it so simple - yet so beautiful. That's why we love football. It's a very simple game, but has so many layers to it. KONAMI and EA struggle to get the simplicity of the game down, but instead focus on the harder things first. It's like learning how to ice-skate before you even know how to walk.

Every year that is what this community, and others, try to modify to get it playing to "walking" level. Until that's established as the focus, it's never going to get to where it should be. People talk about individuality AI, etc, but I could care less. I care more about achieving the fundamental, common football sense first.
 
SXFuzz said:
So you do care?
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About player individuality? No, I don't. Not if it means the common football sense is less of a priority. I don't care if Ronaldo and Messi play exactly like they do IRL, if it means I have to play PES 14-16 again. Seriously, what's the point? PES and FIFA need to have priorities of on the pitch fundamentals first, then build off of that. Been saying it for years. It's frustrating because PES had it right sooner before PES, which is why we love PES of old.
 
Matt10 said:
Sorry, it's a lot of common sense stuff. From outside backs running on dead sprints back to their spot, defending players not staying in front of receivers, perfect passing all over the pitch, fouls, the list goes on and on. These are common football sense values - and their importance cannot be understated.

The beauty of PES is what the hardcore fans loved, the common football sense values that made it so simple - yet so beautiful. That's why we love football. It's a very simple game, but has so many layers to it. KONAMI and EA struggle to get the simplicity of the game down, but instead focus on the harder things first. It's like learning how to ice-skate before you even know how to walk.

Every year that is what this community, and others, try to modify to get it playing to "walking" level. Until that's established as the focus, it's never going to get to where it should be. People talk about individuality AI, etc, but I could care less. I care more about achieving the fundamental, common football sense first.
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Yes Matt of course they are the most important things but you have to look at the strategy from konami as a company first . .they want to compete with Fifa now in the modern era .. .in the old days Pes was more of a cult game going up against the might of Fifa and their main concern was the gameplay .. .now they are trying to compete by luring Fifa fans over to Pes which in turn leaves them no choice but to leave out a lot of the 'common sense' stuff to make it appealing as in a goalfest etc. Fifa are more interested in keeping their fanbase and possibly winning over a few Pes fans which they have done with Fifa 2016 by slowing the game down.

Fifa can afford to add in things to their game and experiment.. . the fan base is there. ..Pes is struggling to survive and are trying to win more fans over. A lot of it is down to budget. The cult days are gone it's all big business now . . that's the real problem.
 
Deco said:
Yes Matt of course they are the most important things but you have to look at the strategy from konami as a company first... Pes is struggling to survive and are trying to win more fans over. A lot of it is down to budget. The cult days are gone it's all big business now . . that's the real problem.
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This is spot on in many ways. That said, why should that prevent Konami from at least fixing the many broken aspects of the game? I prefer FIFA's simplistic gameplay more than PES' more-complex gameplay, simply because FIFA ACTUALLY WORKS. The game isn't broken like PES is.
 
Deco said:
Yes Matt of course they are the most important things but you have to look at the strategy from konami as a company first . .they want to compete with Fifa now in the modern era .. .in the old days Pes was more of a cult game going up against the might of Fifa and their main concern was the gameplay .. .now they are trying to compete by luring Fifa fans over to Pes which in turn leaves them no choice but to leave out a lot of the 'common sense' stuff to make it appealing as in a goalfest etc. Fifa are more interested in keeping their fanbase and possibly winning over a few Pes fans which they have done with Fifa 2016 by slowing the game down.

Fifa can afford to add in things to their game and experiment.. . the fan base is there. ..Pes is struggling to survive and are trying to win more fans over. A lot of it is down to budget. The cult days are gone it's all big business now . . that's the real problem.
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Oh, I definitely agree with what you're saying, and what KONAMI's aim is as a company. I get that they have to be relative still, and cannot rely on the nostalgia of their fans.

What has also happened is there is a lot more of hardcore demand for proper gameplay. Look at our Operation Sports sliders thread alone, over 1 million views, that should be enough of a demand that the same group that grew up loving PES, are still all about just finding ANY football game to quench their realism thirst.

KONAMI need to find a way to bring in the balance here. I think the first touch feature (as much as I hate to call it that considering the simplicty of it), is set to bring in some potential adjustments towards that realism. I just hope they build off of the good things in PES, and listen to this community in particular. The demand is there by simply seeing what a ghost town the PES editing section has become. I'm very desperate and begging for a proper PES return. The Fox engine has been a learning process, to say the least. Which is why I want them to "dumb it down" and get back to the basics of proper football sense.
 
angus said:
This is spot on in many ways. That said, why should that prevent Konami from at least fixing the many broken aspects of the game? I prefer FIFA's simplistic gameplay more than PES' more-complex gameplay, simply because FIFA ACTUALLY WORKS. The game isn't broken like PES is.
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Hey Angus, great to see you, sir.

I hate that I have been playing FIFA more than PES. PES/KONAMI footy is what got me into video gaming 20 years ago. I think FIFA has it's own style, and I don't feel like it's comparing Apples to Apples anymore. That's my personal opinion though. They are completely different games.
 
Matt10 said:
Oh, I definitely agree with what you're saying, and what KONAMI's aim is as a company. I get that they have to be relative still, and cannot rely on the nostalgia of their fans.

What has also happened is there is a lot more of hardcore demand for proper gameplay. Look at our Operation Sports sliders thread alone, over 1 million views, that should be enough of a demand that the same group that grew up loving PES, are still all about just finding ANY football game to quench their realism thirst.

KONAMI need to find a way to bring in the balance here. I think the first touch feature (as much as I hate to call it that considering the simplicty of it), is set to bring in some potential adjustments towards that realism. I just hope they build off of the good things in PES, and listen to this community in particular. The demand is there by simply seeing what a ghost town the PES editing section has become. I'm very desperate and begging for a proper PES return. The Fox engine has been a learning process, to say the least. Which is why I want them to "dumb it down" and get back to the basics of proper football sense.
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Matt I agree with you 100% but Konami ARE trying to bring a balance in . .that's my whole point . I loved the old way Pes was set up but it was a cult following. The big selling point for Fifa years ago was the licences as it felt authentic. ..Konami can't compete with that as we have just witnessed with the loss of the La Liga licences .. .as I said earlier they are in a situation of how to solve the problem which is why we have had 4 different types of Pes games in the last 3 or 4 editions. We're singing off the same hymn sheet here Matt but we have to be realistic . . it's turning into a case of survival for one company and the status quo for the other who can take a hit without a huge effect. let's hope pes 2017 is a decent game.
 
Deco said:
Matt I agree with you 100% but Konami ARE trying to bring a balance in . .that's my whole point . I loved the old way Pes was set up but it was a cult following. The big selling point for Fifa years ago was the licences as it felt authentic. ..Konami can't compete with that as we have just witnessed with the loss of the La Liga licences .. .as I said earlier they are in a situation of how to solve the problem which is why we have had 4 different types of Pes games in the last 3 or 4 editions. We're singing off the same hymn sheet here Matt but we have to be realistic . . it's turning into a case of survival for one company and the status quo for the other who can take a hit without a huge effect. let's hope pes 2017 is a decent game.
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Agree completely, Deco. It is about finding the balance. You know as much as anyone that it's hard to accept the other side that is needed to balance it all out (FUT like features, goalfests, scripting, etc), when all we want is proper PES again. I'm still optimistic for PES 17 though. That IGN video was a lot of positives for what I'm looking for.
 
Matt10 said:
Agree completely, Deco. It is about finding the balance. You know as much as anyone that it's hard to accept the other side that is needed to balance it all out (FUT like features, goalfests, scripting, etc), when all we want is proper PES again. I'm still optimistic for PES 17 though. That IGN video was a lot of positives for what I'm looking for.
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I'm optimistic myself Matt .. at least we're having a civil discussion without it turning into a slanging match lol!
 
broxopios said:
Which video? The one Adam Bhatti talked about PES 2017? Is there another video?
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Yes, that one, where he's interviewed by the non-knowing football/soccer guy. It was a good one, and I took the first touch implementation "feature" as a good sign.

Deco said:
I'm optimistic myself Matt .. at least we're having a civil discussion without it turning into a slanging match lol!
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Yes, of course! We've been in this for a minute, mate. No point in making it personal. That's the beauty of this community :)
 
RAMAXWY said:
i may be a bit late but did you guys see the trailers etc from the new FIFA game?
my goodness they always go all out.
impressive!!!
i will be getting this game for the "journey" and the authenticatie and hopefully the gameplay doesn't let me down too much.
so you see, this is what good marketing does.
convincing you that you just have to have that product.
Konami should really step it up in that department.
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Frankly, i think that story mode for sports is BS, really.
Especially when u can control only one player, so i really hope that Konami will never go in that direction.
 
SaberRider said:
Frankly, i think that story mode for sports is BS, really.
Especially when u can control only one player, so i really hope that Konami will never go in that direction.
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I think it's based on Rashford by the sound of it . .there's a hell of a lot of Man Utd fans out there.
 
For anyone confused ,this is the PES 2017 thread by the way.

Any silly attempts to derail it will be deleted.

Oddly enough we have enough space and diversity here at Evo Web to afford an individual thread for almost any seperate topic.

Beats the shit out of me when people directly post FIFA chat in PES thread.

DONT DO IT.:R1
 
SaberRider said:
Frankly, i think that story mode for sports is BS, really.
Especially when u can control only one player, so i really hope that Konami will never go in that direction.
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not if you are just looking for a break some variety something extra and this all in the same game.
its like become a legend with a story of the pitch.
look interesting to me.
 
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