PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Great vid. .. Matt do you recommend aggressive over conservative and possession play over counter attack? Btw buy Vietto for your ML team.

I'm a fairly conservative player as is, but I do like to mix it up as well. I get annoyed by the counter attack though, which basically contributes to the increase in poor "attack" and "retreat" animations.

Hmmm just tweaked a few things that Matt mentioned and just had a great evenly balanced match losing narrowly.

Glad to hear. Make changes to the User and CPU? Or just User?

Amazing.. give this guy a medal

How are you getting on, man? Would love to hear how it's going in competition.

This is great, Matt, thanks for that! I've already implemented the five minute fix and the tight marking, but will try out the other suggestions as well.

Yeah, the position role changes would be pretty essential imho. That reduces the chances of the instant attack/retreat by the midfielders, thus leaving gaping holes in the midfield.

Thats why I gave up on PES of this Gen, and Im almost giving up on PES foruns as well.
Everybody have the rigth to express themselves but, what I notice, by what Ive been readind, is that PES will never gonna be like old timer fans wants. That PES 4/5/6 feeling, with next gen graphics and 360 moviment with some proper foot planting you know?
All this shit chat about manual passing and shooting make me lose my hopes on this franchise. PES was about STATS and little diferences between player to player. Now any Joe Doe can perform a 30 meters pass. Theres no need to change tactics. There no offence and defence tatics anymore. Enough with this casual type of gameplay!
PES is exactly the way this newbies wanted to be. Sorry....for the very bad english.

I agree with you about PES of old being about stats. The issue that has plagued PES, even in the glory days, was positioning was never a priority. People must forget, but the PES of old was just as wide open, especially in the midfield, as it is now. The beauty of it was "on the ball", which is what PES 17 has given us a bit of a taste now. If only PES 17 focus was on player's attitude towards the ball, and the logic of being a footballer, they'd really recapture the PES players of old, and new.

I dont have too many gameplay issues apart from the inevitable responsiveness which makes all shots and passes really hard like rockets since there is no gradient with dribbling, running, sprinting, essentially everything is very abrupt when you move from start to stop. In the PS2 era since everything was automatic, the game could create scripted variables to make you miss and mess up your balance, its become harder to do this consistently on the newer engines.

My beef is literally everything else apart from the gameplay, Master League, is just a series of friendlies with the only good part is when you get deep into the mode teams will change managers to give you interesting variety, that's it. Its dire, its truly a disgrace! I did a simulated season with PSG and got to the french cup final, or well let me just say its just a friendly match really, no trophy presentation at the beginning, played at the konami stadium? Little to no commentary speech on it.

I've gone back to my beloved PES 2013 again, the issue people dont get that satisfaction with scoring which i last had in PES 2013 or back in the glory years is down to 50% nostalgia and 50% PES 2014-2017 has a core issue which makes shooting rather predictable and efficient since due to their being no gradient and variables in dribbling and moving with the ball you can always find that great or perfect balance to shoot.

Shooting mechanics are fine and have never been better, what is desperately needed it to develop the movement and dribbling back to the sensitivity of PES 2011-2013 where you really needed to pay such attention to the players sense of balance before taking a shot.

The big difference between shooting in PES 2013 and PES 2017 is like in real life on PES 2013, you get the balance right, and try to beat the keeper depending on the situation and your player, on PES 2017 its like you always look to shoot across the keeper or use manual shot and blast it past him. Going round keeper has been non existent on the fox engine also which is a great example of these core issues which was great in PES 2013 and prior games.

Hey, bud. I knew you'd go back to PES 2013! It is indeed your favorite, and I don't blame you. I struggled returning to it because of the player models in general. They just started to get to me at some point. Who knows, maybe nostalgia will kick in and I will go on a tirade of Klash tactics, and gameplay edits :)

I played PES 6 quite recently and it wasn't more varied than PES 2017 as a whole, the shooting is more varied to an extent since its more scripted to fail and PES 2017 its easy to get the balance to shoot how you want.

PES 2017 is very different game to the old gen where every game required you to battle and pass you way up the pitch and earn a goal, PES 2017 is all about tactics, all about making sure you setup you team to give you the advantage and make sure your aware if the AI has too much advantage. You cant play the game the same way you did 10 years ago, its a different animal now. The whole PES nostalgia 'it was better on the PS2' holds no water anymore. On the PS2 you didn't need to worry about the AI's tactics anywhere near as much as you do now

The big problem with PES is not the gameplay its arguably the best every football game on the pitch, i mean arguably, i prefer 2013 still but thats just me, off the pitch its the biggest shambles it's every been, theres been NO, i mean NO work WHATSOEVER done off the pitch, no final presentation in cups like the Coupe de France is simply unacceptable and incompetent programming, its a example of the really poor presentation all round which takes away from any aesthetic immersion.



Yes, this is my beef and something which needs addressing, have you seen the FA Cup or the play at a huge random neutral stadium til the final where you play in a small neutral venue with no presentation? Its a joke it a real disgrace.

Its so simple to program the rules of the FA Cup but they never bother, just leave it in the fantasy tournament structure forever which is a joke.

Agree with you on the off-the-pitch remarks, it is what it is, you know? I think they need to relaunch the entire concept of Football Life as well. It's just too much like a Japanese comic book still, and I feel we've all kind of grown up from that now. Give us statistics, give us presentation and give us realistic gameplay. The PES player is a hard user to please because we don't take any fluff whatsoever, I think this community brings that to the forefront even more as the KONAMI marketing starts to pull at those strings of nostalgia. They just failed at the fundamentals of the sport itself again, not by much, but enough that it's noticeable - and that's when it goes a tad downhill. Thankfully we can make some adjustments, tactically, to get things moving in the right direction, then living with the sacrifices to get a playable PES game this year.

This! Stellar work.

Thanks again for your work on these edits, Matt. I have been using your 5 second fix ever since you introduced them and have had a midfield in the matches ever since. Trying to advertise them every chance I get. Thanks also for pointing me to the PC patch, as I will be switching to that platform shortly.

I am not 100% sure of removing the long ball option from the CPU, because it adds some nice variety. And even on superstar these long balls don't always reach their target. CBs can defend against them - especially with tight marking - and the CPU will also hit them long and wide, in particular when under pressure.

If the CPU has two CFs, and you can't mark both tightly (e.g., if you want to use counter target defensive tactic), one option is to mark the more dangerous CF tightly and man mark the other with a DMF.

We all know that there is plenty of room for improvement in this game, but the fact is that I am playing it every time I have the slightest chance to do so.

I am glad to hear you are playing a lot more James! Yes, you're right, essentially the long ball is still a strong tactic, but it can be frustrating as the CPU creates nothing out of it. Even if a team has long ball as their tactic IRL, they still have shades/layers of "possession" as well. In PES, it's so automatic that there is literally no hiding what the tactic is. Even at the manager's instructions, players do not make it that obvious of what their gameplan is, from start to finish. That's what I had talked about earlier on in PES 17 release, and I begged Adam and Asim to take a look at the tactical adherence being at 100% (along with transition attack/defense), I can only imagine what an amazing game we would have on our hands if they had listened.
 
I do. It's a combination of the physics, animations and shot variety, I think. There's hardly any finesse or character to the shots. They're nearly all flat bullets. No dip, swerve etc... Lots of repetition. Some of the animations are awkward too and don't feel right. Konami had the shooting spot on back in the PS2 days. FIFA didn't but it does a much better job of the shooting now. I think Konami has to improve the way shooting feels and looks if they want their future games to be addictive and have longevity.

I like the word you used in "character" of the shot. That pretty much sums up PES 17 right there. The game is hectic and end to end due to all the space, and the shots are rapid, vicious, trying to race into the goal as quick as possible. What should be a rare, and thus a highly appreciated aspect, in a perfectly struck shot, has become "boring" and unsurprising. The strength of PES is the ball physics, and KONAMI have gotten them correct 99.9% of the way, but that .1% (yes it's bigger really, more like 30%) of shot "character" is the icing on the cake of defining a proper PES experience. Nostalgia is very strong, and their marketing used it, but they came up short where it matters the most. Well said!
 
I like the word you used in "character" of the shot. That pretty much sums up PES 17 right there. The game is hectic and end to end due to all the space, and the shots are rapid, vicious, trying to race into the goal as quick as possible. What should be a rare, and thus a highly appreciated aspect, in a perfectly struck shot, has become "boring" and unsurprising. The strength of PES is the ball physics, and KONAMI have gotten them correct 99.9% of the way, but that .1% (yes it's bigger really, more like 30%) of shot "character" is the icing on the cake of defining a proper PES experience. Nostalgia is very strong, and their marketing used it, but they came up short where it matters the most. Well said!

I only changed the user end of things Matt but I have used your 5 second adjustment since you brought it out. . . I went with the default settings for my team when I started a new Ml and ended up with a load of arse for want of a better word. . .All out defence/ counter attack/ long ball and when I changed them after your video and tweaked the dmf/cmf's it made an immediate difference and I've gone from hating the game to falling in love again. .. .only thing that I'm on the fence about is the aggressive /conservative.
 
I've also gone for the 5 second fix ..massive improvement ..are there any option files that I can use that has all teams done ?

My next video is going to go over how you can just make the change for the Player Role (fluid formation on, changing CMF to DMF in "out of possession" and DMF to CMF "in possession") + Advanced Instruction = Tight Marking, and get a solid gameplay out of it. It's not the absolute best because 5-second positioning is my personal favorite, but it does instantly change the way the CPU will attack, and it will feel much less end to end. At least that has been my experience in the testing.

In terms of the OF, suggest one and I don't have a problem with manually modifying them. I own a PS4 and PC, so I can do either one, although PC seems less inclined since Nesa's side unlocker tool allows you to modify these "on the fly" in-game.
 
I'm using pesuniverse v3 on ps4..it was meant to include tactics but somethings gone wrong and they aren't importing..be great if you could mod that ..I've started doing the premier league..changing the attack and defence instruction and also the midfield positions has you said above..the change is fantastic..I've had to go to PA1 due to the reduction in space but it doesn't feel like cheating .. I've kept it on manual shooting ..had some awesome games with these changes and seeing some proper midfield battles ..respect mate for your work and sharing
 
Thanks matt for the tactic instructions. My English is not the best. It seems that i had to do the tactics for the cpu for every team, right? So i had to change the tactics with fluid formation on, change in possession midfield to cm and out possession to dm. About offensive and defense i had to change all teams to possession and aggresive ? Can someone confirm please.

Thanks
 
^ that's what I've done ..funny thing I've seen now is I started an exhibition match and the tactic is reset ..go into edit mode and the fluid formation is back on ..any ideas why this would happen? I do notice it attempts a live update but says no changes then says edited data loaded so I guessed that would be my edited tactics ..not the case it seems..I also can't seem to disable live updates..I turn it off but next reboot it's back on again
 
Thanks matt for the tactic instructions. My English is not the best. It seems that i had to do the tactics for the cpu for every team, right? So i had to change the tactics with fluid formation on, change in possession midfield to cm and out possession to dm. About offensive and defense i had to change all teams to possession and aggresive ? Can someone confirm please.

Thanks

I am searching a way in which the CPU adjustments would be minimal, but yes, as it is, the adjustments need to be made to the CPU's side as well. Even changing just the user's tactics can benefit the game significantly as well. Aggressive or conservative doesn't matter, I don't really touch those ones as I want to maintain a lot of the team identity, while addressing the lack of fundamentals that some of the "default" tactics set up.

^ that's what I've done ..funny thing I've seen now is I started an exhibition match and the tactic is reset ..go into edit mode and the fluid formation is back on ..any ideas why this would happen? I do notice it attempts a live update but says no changes then says edited data loaded so I guessed that would be my edited tactics ..not the case it seems..I also can't seem to disable live updates..I turn it off but next reboot it's back on again

If that Live Update kicks on that would be why it resets I believe. Even if it says edited data loaded, make sure the bottom where you click on the Live Updates (R3, on a ps3 controller as I have it for my PC), is set to say "Live Updates On" which would indicate it's turned off.

So I was playing around with some settings in the Gameplan. This is promising so far:

- Fluid Formation On
- Player Role - In Possession/Kick-Off - CDM's set to CM's
- Player Role - Out of Possession - CM's set to CDM
- Player Role - Out of Possession - LB/RB set to CB's
- Advanced Instruction - Tight Marking

In this video, the CPU was set to counter-attack and long ball tactics. These are scary tactics on default because it becomes end to end long balls, that develop no build up whatsoever. However, with the modifications above, it seems they are actually taking their time in attack.

For the user, because the CPU LB/RB's are set to CB's, they are not spreading so far out wide, and staying much more goal-side to recover for the aggressive CBs. This makes the wingers defend how they should, maintaining positioning goal side, but being able to be the first line of the midfield to cut off passes down the side. The change for the LB/RB set to CB also helps the instant-retreat mentality where the LB/RB is attacking, then team loses possession, but they are able to stay involved in the transition, because they are much more keen defensively, but because of their advanced position, they are in a more realistic spot to recover versus sprint back to a designated spot.

Excuse the poor turf, stadium camera - working on importing/exporting turfs for myself, just felt like recording at the time.

 
Great work Matt and nice vid . .. . .if an update comes in January I'll start a new Ml and use your recommendations for each team relevant to the ML. .. .well done.
 
Thanks Matt10 for your suggestions I used it for my side only and the gameplay benefits a lot. Just one question : what level you play? SS TP PRO and you use pa1?
 
Great work Matt and nice vid . .. . .if an update comes in January I'll start a new Ml and use your recommendations for each team relevant to the ML. .. .well done.

Great, sounds good.

Thanks Matt10 for your suggestions I used it for my side only and the gameplay benefits a lot. Just one question : what level you play? SS TP PRO and you use pa1?

That's good to hear then. I play Top Player for Home matches and Superstar for Away matches. I do indeed use PA1. I could go manual, but the CPU doesn't pass manually imho, so I don't see the point.

The CPU's attacks are still on counter all the time though. Don't seem to attempt build up.

Yes they will still attack with a counter-attack mentality if that is the tactic. There are times in that video where they settle down a tad, but not to the absolutely ideal point that I would like it. That's why I do not recommend CPU teams even use counter-attack as it can be back and forth all match. However, with those changes, it will be a lot more manageable, and challenging without being unrealistic.
 
I know I'm really slow Matt, but is there an option file out there with ALL of your improvements to tactics included so I don't have to do every single one myself?
 
Matt these changes are immense ..really tighten the game up..cuts out the AI constant through balls..fouls have gone up slightly and I think accidently it's improved the dodgey advantage rule (due to space restraints )..I'm also using manual off the ball controls which is great for creating space
 
That's good to hear then. I play Top Player for Home matches and Superstar for Away matches. I do indeed use PA1. I could go manual, but the CPU doesn't pass manually imho, so I don't see the point.

Playing with PA1 with you're settings at the moment feels great, I used to play manuals because of how the AI plays, but with you're settings I'm okay with PA 1. Still uncertain with the difficulty level though, the AI on ML superstar are sometimes just so annoying with the super goalkeeping (probably because of the 99 team spirit the AI has) but on top player the defense is not as tight as i want it to be. Top player for home game and superstar for away games could be the answer.
 
Yes they will still attack with a counter-attack mentality if that is the tactic. There are times in that video where they settle down a tad, but not to the absolutely ideal point that I would like it. That's why I do not recommend CPU teams even use counter-attack as it can be back and forth all match. However, with those changes, it will be a lot more manageable, and challenging without being unrealistic.
I see. I would love to try your settings but tbh I can't be bothered editing anything, especially after last patch's edit reset. I don't want to go through days of editing for nothing after a patch's released. I'm even playing with all the fake teams and players because of that :/

Good job regardless :)
 
What konami need to do is either implement these tactics which would be the preffered choice or stop destroying the edits ..neither will happen unfortunately
 
I see. I would love to try your settings but tbh I can't be bothered editing anything, especially after last patch's edit reset. I don't want to go through days of editing for nothing after a patch's released.
If it's of any help, Matt's edits for a single league don't take a lot of time. Started a new ML managing Sheffield the other day, and doing the edits for all Championship teams was a piece of cake. Like 2-3 mins per team absolute max. Some funky music in the background and presto - you are done.
 
Hi all this is my copy/paste from PESGAMING, i wanted to share this here too, but not opening a thread for this. Please read, it shows how errors in stats database can ruins to enjoying fully the game.

I've noticed that there were many players who's have seen their stats "converted" from older PES or Winning eleven, but there's a lot of players, especially in AFC/Chile/Argentina league who haven't been well translated.

The first issue is with "Weak Foot Accuracy/Usage" at first, i'll explain:

-In older PES, those attribute were on a 8 scale, but not it's the half, there on a 4 scale.
Many players have 4/4 in Weak foot from older PES or Winning Eleven, i repeat that the scale was on 8, which is an "average" value...
But for pratically every player's from those league (especially AFC), the conversion failded, so those attributes aren't divided on two, like it normally does. But it's not the case.

That mistake remains since PES 2015, i will show you some example:

K; Otani PES 2017
http://www.pesmaster.com/k-otani/pes-2017/player/1073757607/ (max value)
K. Otani PES 2014
http://www.pesmaster.com/otani/pes-2014/player/1073757607/ (low value)

T. Hirakawa PES 2017
http://www.pesmaster.com/t-hirakawa/pes-2017/player/1073745125/
T. Hirakawa PES 2014
http://www.pesmaster.com/hirakawa/pes-2014/player/1073745125/

D. Nasu from PES 2017, who's been probabably converted from J-league 2014 edition:
http://www.pesmaster.com/k-kaga/pes-2017/player/1073745191/

ect. ect. ... You can check yourselve, that's the case from pratically every players "misconverted".


Second issue, "Injury Resistance" conversion:

You can check on well done and well known teams (like Arsenal, Madrid), now the standard is "2" on Injury Resistance, and it's rare to have player's with "3", the max value.
Same problems from player's conversion, always in AFC and American league: the standard is not respected.

Third issue... Weird stats, unknown problem

Exemple With "Bernardo Silva" from Monaco:
http://www.pesmaster.com/bernardo-silva/pes-2017/player/104226/
Have you seen Winger with 75 in Def. prowess and Ball Winning?
Same with 69 for dribbling and 87 in attack, it doesn't reflect the player.
I think the guys who have re-copied his stats have done it in the wrong order, or something like that...

Conclusion: the Database team needs a global supervisor, or a new system to create players they don't know, based on very little informations

Fifa have a system a bit like that, based on position, height, weight, which makes the values changing: they've got standards.

An at least "Healthy" database and no more mistake is for us is very, very important for the gaming experience for Master League, and also Myclub signing as an example. The game is good this year no doubt, but stuffs like that which gives a feel of unfinished product.

I can purpose myself to do that job, but lastly i suscribed to twitter only for discussing those issues, and the officialpes account doesn't have accepted my friend request, probably because i didn't have any following/followers since it was my first day account. But i will create a new one this year.

If someone, somebody can report this to PES, it will be great, if not i will try again myself creating a new account. Thanks in advance

Happy 2017 year to all !
 
Last edited:
Thanks, in fact it's since Windsor team and their "new data system" have take the role that we've got weird stats.
When it was done by 5 japanese guys in olders PES days, there was far more mistakes.
Some stats are also directly taken from Fifa which is not a very good idea...

But i've seen the contrary too: Bellerin stats in Fifa from last year have been "stolen", it seems there are some editor who works on both EA and Konami...

Btw lower league needs more consideration, like i said, they need to build ASAP a system to rate "globally" some players they don't know well, or make a deal with a reliable football source, like OPTA stats, or even the scouts from Sport Interractive (football manager)
 
Last edited:
Also pratically every players from European and World classics needs to be re-created. Stats are taken from PES 2013 and converted (Ball Winning/Defensive and Offensive Prowess)
And now that there's a new attribute "Body Control", they pratically all have been assigned a poor 60 rating, except for re-created players for Myclub often from Liverpool/Barcelona/Dortmund (Owen, Overmars, Ronaldo, Thuram etc.)
 
Exemple With "Bernardo Silva" from Monaco:
http://www.pesmaster.com/bernardo-silva/pes-2017/player/104226/
Have you seen Winger with 75 in Def. prowess and Ball Winning?
Same with 69 for dribbling and 87 in attack, it doesn't reflect the player.
I think the guys who have re-copied his stats have done it in the wrong order, or something like that...

Viudez from 16, had 80 ball winning: http://www.pesmaster.com/viudez/pes-2016/player/38527/

There's some odd stuff in PES stats here and there. Though I'm not sure this stat actually amounts to anything with the way pressure works in the game, through [] and X, or even gegen press. You don't really get a distinctive feeling while trying to win the ball back with a player who is supposedly better at it. Your attackers feel just as competent taking the ball, compared to your high rated defenders. The game doesn't make a whole lot of distinction between players when it comes to details like this, some stats just don't implement well.

Conclusion: the Database team needs a global supervisor, or a new system to create players they don't know, based on very little informations

I wonder if PES borrows from data aggregation sites, there are so many of them. Lower league will always be a problem, it feels like they just have a couple of templates with not much variance for the players they don't know much about.

Also, I think ball winning + defensive prowess might not be enough to describe characteristics of how a player plays and behaves? Just to take Bellerin for example, here's his page from whoscored: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/125211/

Scroll down to mid page, "characteristics".

And for comparison, here's his pes stats: http://www.pesmaster.com/bellerin/pes-2017/player/100510/

You kinda get the feeling that the defensive stats are somewhat lacking in describing how he plays. Weak tackling, good concentration, good defensive contribution. I'm not sure if PES has his characteristics programmed.

Krychowiak has weak concentration: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/67424/
But where can it be reflected in PES? http://www.pesmaster.com/g-krychowiak/pes-2017/player/44659/


Mandzukic, defensive contribution = strong: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/24088/
PES stats - low def prowess and low ball winning: http://www.pesmaster.com/m-mandzukic/pes-2017/player/36817/

Does he feel more intimidating and effective if you use him for gegen press? Not really. Every attacker feels the same when you order them to perform a press, either through []+X or gegen. In PES, for many years, speed is the number 1 most efficient method of winning the ball back, it's just a matter of how fast you can apply pressure.

I feel the game could use a couple more layers of stats to program these characteristics in, and utilize them, have these stats impact how well they can play to a tactical instruction.



Also pratically every players from European and World classics needs to be re-created. Stats are taken from PES 2013 and converted (Ball Winning/Defensive and Offensive Prowess)
And now that there's a new attribute "Body Control", they pratically all have been assigned a poor 60 rating, except for re-created players for Myclub often from Liverpool/Barcelona/Dortmund (Owen, Overmars, Ronaldo, Thuram etc.)

I wish body control stat would have something to do with first time actions (in awkward body stance, random flicks etc...not exactly just one touch passing facing the right direction), or 180 passes, or just simply how many touches it takes a player to turn with the ball, or his turning radius. So that we don't have to see this anymore: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-2017-playstation-xbox-discussion-thread.76425/page-377#post-3193030
 
Last edited:
:r2:About Viudez, it was a mistake of "conversion", from the tools used to make stats to the in-game data probably, which gives on many players the same attributes (80 for most of them) in Ball Winning/Swerve/Finishing, it has been corrected in pes 2017;
Take a look:
http://pesdb.net/pes2016/?finishing=80-80&swerve=80-80&ball_winning=80-80&sort=pos

In Fact Mandzukic is not bad in that area: with 64 in Def Prowess, 81 in jumping, 88 in Physical contact and 89 in stamina and a "Track Back" card, is very good for contribuing at defense as a striker. The combo track back + stamina + Physical contact is showing the defensive contribution, when the ball winning for example is more reflecting the quality of how he "wins the ball" (not only with tacle).

You should take the whole set in consideration, the positionning he's got on the pitch (CF) more that pointing out one or two stats.

Same with your others example: Krychowiak have a "Weak concentration"... But Very strong in Aerial, Interception, Blocking the ball, so it compensate, he's got more strength than weaknesses so the overall stats should be higher.

Bellerin btw i don't know what to think, he's just averagely represented as defending in general, for a SB from a big league, nothing less or more.

Btw this website is good, but it only shows big leagues players characteristics, and there's also no mention of the speed for example.
I personnaly think that big league players are almost well done in PES 2017, excepted one or two "mistakes" but the overall is good.
The whole database cannot be perfect and stats can be always arguable and a player representation can be subjective.

But big errors like the ones mentionned before (80/80/80 and wrong foot) should not appears, that was my point at first.
Then, finding a way to represent the player from what we know about, what can be observed according to his position, in his playing syle etc. with little informations was my second point.

But for that, we should establish at first, like i said in the Editing section (take a look on Fm>Pes conversion talk), which attributes are related, and what's their real influence on the gameplay?
For example, is curve is related to :r2:+:square: shot? Is "Kicking power" related to "Lofted passes" while a defender clearing?
How can we rate on Free Kicks a players who nevers shots FK? So should we take a look at how's he performs penalties instead?

The idea is to question at first, then find a solution, about how we can rate in some area we don't know a clue about, with a certain methodology.
A system to not overpower/underpower some players in certain area, a "+/-" system, but that discussion needs a new thread, it's a bit too technical.
 
Then, finding a way to represent the player from what we know about, what can be observed according to his position, in his playing syle etc. with little informations was my second point.

But for that, we should establish at first, like i said in the Editing section (take a look on Fm>Pes conversion talk), which attributes are related, and what's their real influence on the gameplay?

This is more what I was going at. But reading your point, I'm thinking in a perfect AI vs AI match, these stats might perhaps be represented more accurately. When a human is on the controls, the track back card does not even really matter, there are many ways to override it completely, through controls, or through tactics (maybe fluid formation?).

When defending, ideally you want see some difference between how players (CF) position themselves and try to either walk back, run back, or do nothing. I think if you put down the pad while defending, some of the personalities might start to show better. It's a little difficult to tell what it does to gameplay, when you are allowed to override behaviors.

I think some extra stats like positional discipline (players who don't hold positional well?), offball contribution/willingness (both att/def), tactical proficiency (so we can see difference in players who do better/worse while switching positions in transitions e.g. in fluid formations?)...

Even with the combination of stats, these don't get covered well.

How does the game actually program someone who has weak concentration (attack or defense), or someone who has poor positioning? I'm not sure which combo of stats covers these characteristics (att/def prowess + ...something?).

How do you create a guy that is good in ball winning execution, but have generally have poor discipline and drifts out of position?

How do you create a lazy player? And different types of laziness...not just defending. How do you create an older version of Yaya? How do you create someone who has notably static positioning, until he receives the ball?

How do you make players behave like this?:



As opposed to this? :
http://arsenalist.com/f/2016-17/ars...chases-back-zaha-50-yards-to-win-it-back.html

By the way, every player does the full court track back quite well, when humans are on the controls, coz of catchup bug? Or speed? Does ball winning feel really important in actual gameplay? I don't feel it so much. When a forward tracks back like this in a real game, it's worth highlighting after the game. How do you enforce this in PES gameplay, so that it doesn't happen all the time?

It would be nice when humans get on the controls, there would be a soft limiter for what we can or cannot do to override it. Maybe there should be some difference in the intensity of work rate.

Interesting discussion, I'm just not sure if the stats and the combo of stats we have now is enough to show some of these distinctions. I think it could go a level deeper.

A system to not overpower/underpower some players in certain area, a "+/-" system, but that discussion needs a new thread, it's a bit too technical.

Would gladly read or participate!

edit:

Looking at the whoscored site again, checking Yaya's description: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/14053

I wonder if it would help, if PES have a layer of stats (or some cards) that deals with weaknesses, rather than it always be about strength..
 
Last edited:
Very interresting post, i'll respond to it later.
Only one thing: PES is not really like a football manager game, the purpose is at first to be simple, effective and representative. Tactics are something to discuss too.
If you want to try dribbling and running accross the pitch with Mertesacker, nobody will stop you since that's a "dynamic" game.
But you're not gonna take the good decision. Decisions and stats are related, we're gonna discuss to that in another thread i'm gonna suggest, sorry i don't have much time this week...
 
Had a fantastic 2nd leg to my CL Quarter final last night had to win by 2 clear goals to qualify. Tell you what this game, when it gets it right this game gets you real invested. The last few minutes was some of the most stressful of my life, had no idea what else they were gonna throw at me. played on Superstar 20 mins and to me was as immersive as a real European night at Anfield :)

 
Back
Top Bottom