PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

vxcmplx said:
Was that PEEL?

I asked those questions since they are the most common claims i hear, that prevents people from playing manual, I just wanted to hear what people think when they go from PA1 to PA0. Honestly, there is still computer correction in manual passes and shots, it doesn't quite go exactly to your direction input. And the players don't really pass like they are Sunday league players who don't know how to play pro football.

To me, manual is still assisted. Just a lower assistance. It's been that way every year. I'm not sure about FIFA, but that's the way it is in PES.

We call L2 the "manual manual". I think L2 had no correction in PES 16? I'm not sure

Speaking of cross field balls...

https://youtu.be/KekcWCn_blw





Try playing the extreme short passes, sightly underpowered. You don't need to play to feet. Actually, this creates movement as well, coz the receiving playing will have to walk over to collect it. That's the "gradation" I keep mentioning in manual pass. I'm not sure if assisted pass can do this? It might just snap to feet
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Yep I was a member at PEEL. Agreed PES Manual has never been completely manual and the modifier is what the true manual is. That is a beauty of a corssfield pass btw
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Tried manual aswell...i mean this isnt manual guys...and maybe stats even matter at assisted too but i explain it.

The amount of support run ur players do for a pass makes it less manual its like 2015's assisted lvl1.

Btw i think these support tuns screwed over passing ID since every pass is perfect bc the receiver position himself perfectly.
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Good thing you have your opinion in,wouldn't agree on it though.
And support runs?
Yeah,that's pretty much how your team mates should play?
Should they stand there watching?

But yeah manual is like 2015 lev l...
 
rockstrongo said:
Good thing you have your opinion in,wouldn't agree on it though.
And support runs?
Yeah,that's pretty much how your team mates should play?
Should they stand there watching?

But yeah manual is like 2015 lev l...
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They should not stand there and watch. But some players should have higher awareness and reaction times than others. I hope this is somehow reflected in the stats, so that the more intelligent/aware players can find those slightly astray passes better.
 
zeemeister said:
Yep I was a member at PEEL. Agreed PES Manual has never been completely manual and the modifier is what the true manual is. That is a beauty of a corssfield pass btw
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I used to read the PEEL forum sometimes, I signed up but at the time I had the American version of the game, wasn't possible to play you guys. I remember that place and this forum had a big influence on me.
 
zeemeister said:
This. The AI along with your team mates do unusual things because it is less scripted

I also tend to use the Throughball alot more because it has a nice pace on it for some reason.

It's surprising that the most difficult pass to play is a short 5 meter pass into a small space. I need to master that.
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Jeez .. .I thought you played manual a lot and you just thought it was not for you. . .. and there you were this morning picking up your ball and going home. The good thing about it is lofting the ball into space instead of at a player. . . makes it more tricky for the A.i.

Speaking of manual I had a few epic battles as Athletico v Barca tonight ... . drew three and lost one and the ref played a blinder in those games. Nearly pulled off a great move . .nice bit of movement and passing with a flick pass thrown in and Torres picked it up a few yards outside the box and managed to nutmeg the defender and run on to it and took a great shot and the keeper pulled off a great save. . .he would go and ruin it, it's hard work sometimes is manual but it's rewarding.
 
vxcmplx said:
They should not stand there and watch. But some players should have higher awareness and reaction times than others. I hope this is somehow reflected in the stats, so that the more intelligent/aware players can find those slightly astray passes better.
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Agree on that,from both sides,both defenders reading play better,getting offside traps or getting in the passing lane.
Or off players making better/more different runs.
I usually play manual on SS,latest game I played on Profesional,vs a team lower than me,no pressure,still I had 66% passing.
Tons of passes going over the line or complety wrong
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Matt u r right about the auti att/def on Superstar & Top Player. Professional is the way.
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Coming from you, GPL - it's much appreciated.

Here is what I posted on another forum, hope it's okay if I paste it, as it illustrates my thoughts regarding Professional being the current way to play - and what Top Player/Superstar needs to pay attention to.

I think Professional difficulty is the way to go.

This is my "WIP" theory on the difficulty levels. Adherence to the tactics is relative to the difficulty played in. I post the following not to recruit those to play on Professional, but rather to illustrate the comparison of Pro difficulty to Top Player/Superstar, and how those difficulties could be improved with the simple dialing down of sensitivity to att/def levels & tactical adherence.

Top Player and Superstar - CPU adheres to the tactics, regardless of who they play, or what the game scenario suggests. So even if they are losing 2-0, it won't be until the 65+ minute that the att/def level will change, or the tactics/fluid formations. While there will be adaptive AI involved, their "mentality" will not shift until absolutely necessary. This is why you see the retreating AI regardless of game situation. As long as that level is at 2 defense, that's it - they will stick to that mentality. This is why the effects on the animation of those levels is so prevalent - and almost manic.

Take Barcelona and Germany's high pressure defense, it's not the right kind of pressure. They swarm the ball 3:1, but they don't cut off angles, instead they chase the player like a Benny Hill episode. It becomes a game of tag as a result, and makes ridiculously easy to pass around, or dribble around. Now, when they win the ball, it's an instant charge to go forward. Because the sensitivity, or effectiveness, of their tactics is so incredibly strong - that is all that is on their mind.

Professional - CPU adheres to the game scenario, and the adaptive AI becomes more in-sync as a result. The sensitivty/effectiveness of the tactics is not as strong, so you do not see a charge or retreat mentality. You do see some directness, but you will also see more build up (at least compared to Superstar and Top Player). You will also see more mistakes, why? Well, yes it's Professional, but it's also because players are not completely in-sync with the tactics or even eachother. There is no mind reading, and as a result, they play more human - and less robotic. This is why the best animations in the game have been seen on the lower difficulties, in particular Professional. This is why the best defensive shape has been seen from both the User and CPU. The only negative I have with Professional is that there will be times you can dribble past the CM/CDM, but even then there is the surprise they will make an attempt and foul you or dispossess you. The nice thing about the lower sensitivity to the tactics is that the defenders release from their positions/marking much quicker - because they are not glued to the tactics, they are in-sync with what is happening to the ball.

The only thing missing, and it's critical, is the transition level. The transition, from Attack to Defense, or from possession to losing possession, is why the midfield is bypassed, and the result is a very end-to-end match - in every match. The best shape I have seen from a defense, is Germany on Professional. They use the level 4 def and the way they stepped up into the zone was sublime. See this match from the livestream at 3:22:10. They do not swarm 3:1 like crazy, instead they step up one-by-one, relevant to where the ball is. This is exactly how, as a coach myself, would teach my players to play a zone. It's a beautiful thing to see.

(if watching in full, first couple matches playing on Regular, just to have a base to compare)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRRzdWoNnTU

Overall, if the att/def levels & tactics could be lowered in their sensitivty on Top Player and Superstar, I believe we will see the true beauty of this game. It would be the perfect balance of common football sense and adherence to tactics/game scenario. The importance of a transition level is high though, but if there is a chance that is not within the possibilities to implement, then an alternate adjustment would be to dial down the sensitivity of the Attack/Defense levels - and their relevance to tactics implemented. Granted, other variables in the full version will come into play (not to mention all those greyed-out tactical instructions), but this is an area that should be considered important so those who love to play on the top difficulties, truly feel like they're being challenged properly - and not having to play charity against the CPU.
 
rockstrongo said:
Good thing you have your opinion in,wouldn't agree on it though.
And support runs?
Yeah,that's pretty much how your team mates should play?
Should they stand there watching?

But yeah manual is like 2015 lev l...
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Well not that they should but this is how it was in the past also this how it is on Fifa. Im saying i understand why do u guys like it now. Its not Fifa manual at all.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Well not that they should but this is how it was in the past also this how it is on Fifa. Im saying i understand why do u guys like it now. Its not Fifa manual at all.
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Yeah can deffo agree on the difference between PES/FIFA
Think I misread yeah,tired I guess.
But,yeah I enjoy manual more in this since I guess PES 13 or something
One thing,since I play manual on the other game aswell,that's trickier when it comes to direction,but I feel PES has a better power system,of course it could be me setting power bar different.
Or just preference.
I found playing on Profesional on the demo very satisfying
 
Deco said:
Jeez .. .I thought you played manual a lot and you just thought it was not for you. . .. and there you were this morning picking up your ball and going home. The good thing about it is lofting the ball into space instead of at a player. . . makes it more tricky for the A.i.

Speaking of manual I had a few epic battles as Athletico v Barca tonight ... . drew three and lost one and the ref played a blinder in those games. Nearly pulled off a great move . .nice bit of movement and passing with a flick pass thrown in and Torres picked it up a few yards outside the box and managed to nutmeg the defender and run on to it and took a great shot and the keeper pulled off a great save. . .he would go and ruin it, it's hard work sometimes is manual but it's rewarding.
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i did play manual on 2015 but just stopped altogether on 2016 and didnt think to try 0 assist on the demo because i assumed it hadn't changed.

infact I am not going to call it manual anymore. its 0 assist!
 
Well i stick with manual passing if they wont fix the assisted levels.

However im not sure about shooting since i dont want to send the ball for a touch in a decisive situation just because my finger slips or im too tired after a work day but in the meantime it makes me sick looking at Draxler taking a rocket shot with his left foot with 4 defenders on him like Roberto Carlos with his left without pressure on him in old PES games.


My biggest problem this whole auto att/def lvl ever since Matt pointed out i cant unsee it :D
Also i cant seem to get it...France and Germany when loose the ball go orange, when get the ball they go blue.

?
 
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zeemeister said:
i did play manual on 2015 but just stopped altogether on 2016 and didnt think to try 0 assist on the demo because i assumed it hadn't changed.

infact I am not going to call it manual anymore. its 0 assist!
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Ok do you think 0 assist is more assisted than 0 assist in Pes 2016? and would that make Pes 2016 -1 0 assist? The worst 0 assist I came across was Pes 2014. . the pass was like a bobbly trickle. .feckin useless.

0 assist . . the passing/shooting formerly known as manual.
 
Deco said:
Ok do you think 0 assist is more assisted than 0 assist in Pes 2016? and would that make Pes 2016 -1 0 assist? The worst 0 assist I came across was Pes 2014. . the pass was like a bobbly trickle. .feckin useless.

0 assist . . the passing/shooting formerly known as manual.
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I think so yeah but more than that your team mates seemed oblivious to what you were doing. it doesnt help that i had stopped playing leagues and was stuck playing the com or online people who seemingly dissappeared.
 
I can confirm that playing on Professional makes a difference. Most teams have this FIFA-like buildup and little pass errors on Top Player, which doesn't happen in Professional, Atlético plays with their whole team around the box for example. I can even see more player individuality there.

EDIT: What I've noticed however is that the AI barely fouls me on that level. I used to get 3-5 fouls per game and now I'm back to zero fouls. I don't really know if that's a sacrifice I'm that willing to make.
 
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This talk banding about that zero assist isn't full manual is nonsense; and hope the developers ignore any feedback that suggests this.

It is full manual and it is simply a case of the AI having been improved along with response and control of player movement in regards unassisted passing. In fact, the more I play it, the more I think they have nailed the manual passing model. Individuality doesn't suffer (my one primary concern when going manual in any football game) as I have discovered when playing five games as Corinthians and then five games with Barcelona on zero assist passing.
 
rockstrongo said:
But yeah manual is like 2015 lev l...
Click to expand...

So now manual passing is assisted? I'm pretty sure in pes 2016 manual passing was not assisted and I like it because you really need to think before making a pass. But, I guess not many people like that, and konami is following fifa with assisted manual passing.

But if that's the case level 1 in PES 2015 was okay for me, you could ping the ball like professional footballers but still make errors although not enough for me.
 
curdstar said:
This talk banding about that zero assist isn't full manual is nonsense; and hope the developers ignore any feedback that suggests this.

It is full manual and it is simply a case of the AI having been improved along with response and control of player movement in regards unassisted passing. In fact, the more I play it, the more I think they have nailed the manual passing model. Individuality doesn't suffer (my one primary concern when going manual in any football game) as I have discovered when playing five games as Corinthians and then five games with Barcelona on zero assist passing.
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Okay this make sense, then it's like PES 2013 where manual passing feels assisted because the ball receiver is very responsive and reacts to pass. Well good then because that's how manual passing should be.
 
curdstar said:
This talk banding about that zero assist isn't full manual is nonsense; and hope the developers ignore any feedback that suggests this.

It is full manual and it is simply a case of the AI having been improved along with response and control of player movement in regards unassisted passing. In fact, the more I play it, the more I think they have nailed the manual passing model. Individuality doesn't suffer (my one primary concern when going manual in any football game) as I have discovered when playing five games as Corinthians and then five games with Barcelona on zero assist passing.
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This is not new. Go play 16, 15, 14, 13. Tape down L2. See the difference.
 
These settings are a game changer for me, and should be Konami's default, so everybody can experience it...
You can really feel the battles...

Here's a video of a game with these settings... YouTubes video compression makes it look faster than it really is...:RANT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NvvhT6CDCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKtfQMPJBg

camera settings 6 0 10
radar appearance off
player name plate off
game speed 0

i even feel the game speed is slower with this camera angle.

I haven't had a better football game experience.....:WORSHIP:
 
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vxcmplx said:
This is not new. Go play 16, 15, 14, 13. Tape down L2. See the difference.
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I don't mind being corrected. You're right. I couldn't be more happier that this is the case as it means, whether by design or accident, they have made zero assist a zero assist regards direction but in doing so have maintained player individuality in passing. It is exactly what I want.

Elja said:
Okay this make sense, then it's like PES 2013 where manual passing feels assisted because the ball receiver is very responsive and reacts to pass. Well good then because that's how manual passing should be.
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Yeah, the comparisons to PES2013 are just on this front.

Bond!JamesBond! said:
These settings are a game changer for me, and should be Konami's default, so everybody can experience it...
You can really feel the battles...

Here's a video of a game with these settings... YouTubes video compression makes it look faster than it really is...:RANT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NvvhT6CDCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKtfQMPJBg

camera settings 5 0 10
radar appearance off
player name plate off
game speed 0

i even feel the game speed is slower with this camera angle.

I haven't had a better football game experience.....:WORSHIP:
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I'm using 4,0,10 which is very similar to your own camera setting. It really is superb.
 
user name 99 said:
I can confirm that playing on Professional makes a difference. Most teams have this FIFA-like buildup and little pass errors on Top Player, which doesn't happen in Professional, Atlético plays with their whole team around the box for example. I can even see more player individuality there.

EDIT: What I've noticed however is that the AI barely fouls me on that level. I used to get 3-5 fouls per game and now I'm back to zero fouls. I don't really know if that's a sacrifice I'm that willing to make.
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shield the ball with your body holding L2......Time your movement they will pick at you and get frustrated fouling you... I draw fouls at will.

konami doesn't get the credit they deserve on there foul system i think it's spot on.. they make mistakes like real life

i'm going to make a video on drawing fouls
 
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Manual passing isn't pes 2015 level 1 passing guys. Stop spreading this nonsense ;)

I still play pes 2015 bal until 2017 comes out so I know what I'm on about ;)
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
shield the ball with your body holding L2......Time your movement they will pick at you and get frustrated fouling you... I draw fouls at will.

konami doesn't get the credit they deserve on there foul system i think it's spot on.. they make mistakes like real life

i'm going to make a video on drawing fouls
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Forcing fouls is not really the point, I would want them to come naturally, as a result of the situation. It would just be boring for me to wait until I'm brought down in the box just to get a penalty, that would be outright dirty.

Anyway, I guess fouls are slowly coming back in Professional, I've already had three in a match against Atlético. Still delighted by the AI though.
 
user name 99 said:
Forcing fouls is not really the point, I would want them to come naturally, as a result of the situation. It would just be boring for me to wait until I'm brought down in the box just to get a penalty, that would be outright dirty.

Anyway, I guess fouls are slowly coming back in Professional, I've already had three in a match against Atlético. Still delighted by the AI though.
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how is it forcing fouls?
L2 is how you hold/controll/protect the ball.
 
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curdstar said:
This talk banding about that zero assist isn't full manual is nonsense; and hope the developers ignore any feedback that suggests this.

It is full manual and it is simply a case of the AI having been improved along with response and control of player movement in regards unassisted passing. In fact, the more I play it, the more I think they have nailed the manual passing model. Individuality doesn't suffer (my one primary concern when going manual in any football game) as I have discovered when playing five games as Corinthians and then five games with Barcelona on zero assist passing.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's not completely manual though there is a difference between 0 assist and the L2 modifier

Lami said:
Manual passing isn't pes 2015 level 1 passing guys. Stop spreading this nonsense ;)

I still play pes 2015 bal until 2017 comes out so I know what I'm on about ;)
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Don't think anyone said that Lami.
 
rockstrongo said:
Yeah can deffo agree on the difference between PES/FIFA
Think I misread yeah,tired I guess.
But,yeah I enjoy manual more in this since I guess PES 13 or something
One thing,since I play manual on the other game aswell,that's trickier when it comes to direction,but I feel PES has a better power system,of course it could be me setting power bar different.
Or just preference.
I found playing on Profesional on the demo very satisfying
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Yeah atm professional seems the way to go, had a couple of epic matches between Flamengo and River last night:)

Oh, slå för fan Gnaget idag! :) / Peking

Sorry for writing in swedish, just had to wish his team good luck since they play Swedens most uncharming team today...
 
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user name 99 said:
I can confirm that playing on Professional makes a difference. Most teams have this FIFA-like buildup and little pass errors on Top Player, which doesn't happen in Professional, Atlético plays with their whole team around the box for example. I can even see more player individuality there.

EDIT: What I've noticed however is that the AI barely fouls me on that level. I used to get 3-5 fouls per game and now I'm back to zero fouls. I don't really know if that's a sacrifice I'm that willing to make.
Click to expand...

I haven't played anything else but professional and I do get fouled by the AI.
In some games more and in some games less.
One was almost annoying :D
Had games where I got fouled 6, 7 times.
 
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