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PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

romagnoli said:
And please don't just make fixing those things what PES 2018 will bring to the table - you could easily patch these things out by Xmas.
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This is my big hope, but given how long it takes for Konami to deliver certain things, e.g. the new stadia we aren't getting for another 2-3 months (and the abundance of people telling Adam not to change anything on Twitter - and I understand the sentiment), I don't see it happening. I can genuinely see the gameplay staying exactly the same all this year and all next year (note - I love the gameplay, I'd just love to see some little tweaks).

I agree on the manual option too, it's just not for me. It puzzles me when people say "why do you want less pass accuracy like in FIFA when all it does is make Messi hit Sunday League passes", then "I love manual passing on PES"... Which results in exactly the same thing.

You know what though, I'd give it a serious go in a heartbeat, if Superstar AI felt like it was playing with the same settings. Otherwise, it's 50% pass accuracy v 90% pass accuracy, no matter the teams, and that's no fun.
 
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geeeeee said:
I played as Boca Juniors v Flamengo earlier on Superstar with level 1 passing and manual shooting. They didn't have a shot in the first half and had about 4 in the second. I'm finding it quite easy to defend and disposses them easy too all over the pitch. Even their defenders, my strikers were nicking the ball off them and building an attack. Admittedly I didn't score but I found that I didn't have to concentrate that much.

It may be because they are Exhbition games, or it could be that I was only playing Flamengo. I'm playing a league at the moment with the teams in the demo. Both games have finished 0-0. Next game is Barcelona v Germany (ME). I will post an update.
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BIB - I think that could well be the case now that you mention it. I seem to remember exhibition games in PES 5 and 6 being really stale and easy, but when you get into leagues etc, all of a sudden the AI comes to life.
 
bluewomble88 said:
BIB - I think that could well be the case now that you mention it. I seem to remember exhibition games in PES 5 and 6 being really stale and easy, but when you get into leagues etc, all of a sudden the AI comes to life.
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Yeh definately exhibition games were easier in PES5. What worries me is if Konami do what they did in PES2016 and bring scripting/cheating into Superstar games. That was one of the reasons I found it so frustrating. It played excellent on Top Player but a little easy then on Superstar suddenly players became unresponsive and would not head simple balls away so it allowed the CPU through on goal.

I really hope it's not the same this year.
 
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geeeeee said:
It played excellent on Top Player but a little easy then on Superstar suddenly players became unresponsive and would not head simple balls away so it allowed the CPU through on goal.
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I swear, playing as Germany against France on Superstar, it felt like that was happening. See if you can get it to happen - I'd love to know I'm not going crazy!
 
Chris Davies said:
Couldn't resist a go on the demo at lunchtime. After my experience with the game yesterday (see the "AI cheats or wonky animations" video), I immediately put down the controller and left it alone for the night after feeling like I was fighting the controller to do what I wanted to do.

But I put it on again an hour ago, played as River Plate vs Boca (who have a better overall score for DF, MD and FW according to the team select screen)...

Oh, man. It was delicious again. The gameplay is so smooth, responsive, there's so much variation in there now compared to last year (maybe not as much as FIFA, but more than before, and better AI to go with it, so I'm happy).

I dominated possession, and even pass accuracy, on Superstar, against a better team! That's INSANE for me, coming from 2016. It felt like all of their higher ratings came from a few superstars (Tevez being one of them), rather than all of the players being of a higher standard.

(I have no idea if that's right because I don't follow South American football, but if that happens to be right, let me know, because I'll be amazed how the game communicated that.)

They still managed more shots than me - because they had a couple from distance (again, didn't happen last year, so I'm delighted) - but even though it finished 0-0, it felt so good.

I'm wondering if that terrible game I had yesterday was because I was using Germany - perhaps they just didn't suit me, but they felt slow, lethargic, second-to-everything. Does anyone else feel like that when using Germany?
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The ATT/DEF level for Germany is, out of 1-5, a 2 for Attack and they go to a 4 for Defense since they press quite high, but they don't build many numbers in the attack.

The enjoyment of playing against teams that have DEF Level above 2 (3-5 obviously) is what this game should be all about. Teams should only go @ 2 (and below) if it's late in the match and they're winning. This is why it's frustrating playing against top teams like Arsenal, and seeing them retreat the way they do, when it's 0-0 in the 12th minute lol.
 
Matt10 said:
The ATT/DEF level for Germany is, out of 1-5, a 2 for Attack and they go to a 4 for Defense since they press quite high, but they don't build many numbers in the attack.

The enjoyment of playing against teams that have DEF Level above 2 (3-5 obviously) is what this game should be all about. Teams should only go @ 2 (and below) if it's late in the match and they're winning. This is why it's frustrating playing against top teams like Arsenal, and seeing them retreat the way they do, when it's 0-0 in the 12th minute lol.
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I was playing as Germany though, and I wasn't using automatic ATT/DEF levels. The only adjustment I made to it was to put them at a 4 when I wasn't getting anywhere and I was desperate.

I understand France are brilliant throughout and I don't really have a complaint about anything they were doing. It was how Germany felt to control - they seemed really sluggish, they made terrible decisions (see the video where the midfielder gets "locked on" to a course that guarantees he can't win the ball)... It just felt really "cheaty", to me.

But none of the other matches I've played so far felt that way, and I don't know whether it's because of their stats, or whether the game was impacting my players to give France an easier tie, which is how I feel playing the Master League in 2016.
 
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we7god said:
So, this means we can play the Demo with or against a online friend when he is invited via a lobby?
Has someone tested this and can confirm this?
Thanks in advance.
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You are my hero. I've thought about remote play options in the past, but totally forgot about Share Play on the PS4. Unfortunately my friend doesn't own a PS4, but apparently Nvidia has a similar application in beta (Gamestream) since last fall? This could potentially solve one of my biggest problems; the inability to customize 2vCPU matches. Theoretically I can play any offline mode that supports two people via one of these services, right? I can finally play Master League with my friend. :RSCARF:I wonder if there are any noticeable latency issues.
 
All 30 Argentine Primera División teams confirmed licensed at the game's unveiling in Buenos Aires.
IMG_20160825_163658.jpg
 
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Chris Davies said:
I was playing as Germany though, and I wasn't using automatic ATT/DEF levels. The only adjustment I made to it was to put them at a 4 when I wasn't getting anywhere and I was desperate.

I understand France are brilliant throughout and I don't really have a complaint about anything they were doing. It was how Germany felt to control - they seemed really sluggish, they made terrible decisions (see the video where the midfielder gets "locked on" to a course that guarantees he can't win the ball)... It just felt really "cheaty", to me.

But none of the other matches I've played so far felt that way, and I don't know whether it's because of their stats, or whether the game was impacting my players to give France an easier tie, which is how I feel playing the Master League in 2016.
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My fault! So hooked in on these att/def levels, anytime I read of a team that is where my mind goes, lol.
 
Chris Davies said:
This is my big hope, but given how long it takes for Konami to deliver certain things, e.g. the new stadia we aren't getting for another 2-3 months (and the abundance of people telling Adam not to change anything on Twitter - and I understand the sentiment), I don't see it happening. I can genuinely see the gameplay staying exactly the same all this year and all next year (note - I love the gameplay, I'd just love to see some little tweaks).

I agree on the manual option too, it's just not for me. It puzzles me when people say "why do you want less pass accuracy like in FIFA when all it does is make Messi hit Sunday League passes", then "I love manual passing on PES"... Which results in exactly the same thing.

You know what though, I'd give it a serious go in a heartbeat, if Superstar AI felt like it was playing with the same settings. Otherwise, it's 50% pass accuracy v 90% pass accuracy, no matter the teams, and that's no fun.
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It's probably not meant to be played against COM with manual. Same reason I don't deal with manual v assisted, for obvious reasons. The only games I play, are manual v manual, online.

Tho that said, I do have 80+℅ pass completion in v COM games.

Anyway, it's weird to quantify my games with pass completion. It doesn't mean I'm creating quality chances better if I have high pass accuracy. It depends on the zone I operate in, opponent defensive set up etc.


Chris Davies said:
It puzzles me when people say "why do you want less pass accuracy like in FIFA when all it does is make Messi hit Sunday League passes", then "I love manual passing on PES"... Which results in exactly the same thing.
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Can you clarify on this? I don't think I understand there relationship of those two quotes
 
vxcmplx said:
Can you clarify on this? I don't think I understand there relationship of those two quotes
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There are some like myself who think assist level 1 should be less assisted, and who think FIFA's passing is much better because it introduces passes that aren't hit along a perfect path all the time (whether they're intercepted or not).

But an argument against this exists that goes "then you'll be hitting Sunday League passes with world class players".

Some (not all) of those people also say that playing on manual is the best way to play PES - which introduces even more pass error. If it was true that the pass error on FIFA means "Sunday League passes from world class players", it's also true when playing with zero pass assist on PES. In-fact, because it's more manual than semi-passing on FIFA, it means that there's even more potential for hitting terrible passes in PES with the same world class players.

So it doesn't make sense, to me. (Coming specifically from manual players, I mean.)

Like I've said before, I'd give zero passing assistance a good go in PES, but the AI "plays with assists" (its passing is so fast and the paths so perfect). I'd rather it was a fair game, and that I wasn't having to play really simple football because any kind of a difficult pass was intercepted due to it being off-course, which would never happen to the CPU.
 
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Chris Davies said:
There are some like myself who think assist level 1 should be less assisted, and who think FIFA's passing is much better because it introduces passes that aren't hit along a perfect path all the time (whether they're intercepted or not).

But an argument against this exists that goes "then you'll be hitting Sunday League passes with world class players".

Some (not all) of those people also say that playing on manual is the best way to play PES - which introduces even more pass error, and means you hit even worse passes in PES with the same world class players.

So it doesn't make sense, to me.

Like I've said before, I'd give zero passing assistance a good go in PES, but the AI, for all intents and purposes, "plays with assists" (its passing is so fast and the paths so perfect). I'd rather it was a fair game, and that I wasn't having to play really simple football because any kind of a difficult pass was intercepted due to it being off-course, which would never happen to the CPU.
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For me, manual is the lesser of two evils. At this point in time assisted passing is far too easy, and trivializes the experience (In FIFA and PES). It's personally not very rewarding. Now, if they reintroduced a more stat oriented system I'd be all for it. Until then I'll take manual over something that's highly automated.
 
Chris Davies said:
There are some like myself who think assist level 1 should be less assisted, and who think FIFA's passing is much better because it introduces passes that aren't hit along a perfect path all the time (whether they're intercepted or not).

But an argument against this exists that goes "then you'll be hitting Sunday League passes with world class players".

Some (not all) of those people also say that playing on manual is the best way to play PES - which introduces even more pass error, and means you hit even worse passes in PES with the same world class players.

So it doesn't make sense, to me.

Like I've said before, I'd give zero passing assistance a good go in PES, but the AI, for all intents and purposes, "plays with assists" (its passing is so fast and the paths so perfect). I'd rather it was a fair game, and that I wasn't having to play really simple football because any kind of a difficult pass was intercepted due to it being off-course, which would never happen to the CPU.
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First off, I don't play much against COM, but it's probably impossible to ask COM to give you a fair game on manual. It's difficult to expect COM to make human mistakes. Most of my games are human v human, both manual.

I think it depends on the beginning point of thought.

There are a couple of things at work here.

1. Game assistance/correction.
2. User control proficiency level (call it stick skills, I guess)

Some questions to ask:
A. Do you want the basic game to be reliant on the user's ability to measure a pass
Or
B. Do you want the basic game to give parity to different user "stick skills"?
B.sub2. How much parity, would be the question.

It really depends.

But before we get into that, I don't think I ever felt I'm "passing like Sunday league" on manual. That sounds like someone who has poorly managed "stick skills" in manual. If you give it some time, you kinda know how to properly weight the pass, and measure the angles.

About A, I've already outlined my thoughts on how it should be implemented:
http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=3156624

Right now, to me, PES only does B. Even in manual, it does B. Because there is still ball path correction that the game imposed on you. Tho it seems to be answering B.sub2 pretty well, in manual.


P.S. I don't play FIFA. It's probably not fair to compare manual in PES, to manual in FIFA, and paint it the same. They most likely have different mechanism, so it can be a little out of context.

Sorry it it sounds confusing. But I feel just within one comment like yours, there's quite a lot of things that we are commenting on, from different games, different pass settings. I mean, it does highlight the general feeling you get from playing manual/assisted, but it's helpful to be specific about what exactly you think causes the problem.

Peace and love. Just discussing.
 
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Chris Davies said:
There are some like myself who think assist level 1 should be less assisted, and who think FIFA's passing is much better because it introduces passes that aren't hit along a perfect path all the time (whether they're intercepted or not).

But an argument against this exists that goes "then you'll be hitting Sunday League passes with world class players".

Some (not all) of those people also say that playing on manual is the best way to play PES - which introduces even more pass error. If it was true that the pass error on FIFA means "Sunday League passes from world class players", it's also true when playing with zero pass assist on PES. In-fact, because it's more manual than semi-passing on FIFA, it means that there's even more potential for hitting terrible passes in PES with the same world class players.

So it doesn't make sense, to me. (Coming specifically from manual players, I mean.)

Like I've said before, I'd give zero passing assistance a good go in PES, but the AI "plays with assists" (its passing is so fast and the paths so perfect). I'd rather it was a fair game, and that I wasn't having to play really simple football because any kind of a difficult pass was intercepted due to it being off-course, which would never happen to the CPU.
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Regarding the manual passing, this is how I feel as well. I actually had typed it all up yesterday in detail, but accidentally deleted. You summed it up better than I would have anyways, Chris. It's not an even-level playing field in PES. In FIFA, you can raise the Pass Error slider of the CPU to validate manual passing. That's the only reason I use it, but not in PES, unless I start to see some realistic passing (accuracy + speed) from the CPU. Time will tell as we haven't seen the very lowly rated teams just yet in this demo.
 
PES 2017 will feature these stadiums:
- Camp Nou
- San Siro
- Guiseppe Meazza
- Stadio Olimpico
- St. Jakob-Park
- Neu Sonne Arena
- Metropole Arena
- Estadio de Escorpiao
- Estadio Urbano Caldeira
- Estadio del Nuevo Triunfo
- Stade de Sagittaire
- Studio Orione
- Burg Stadion
- Estadio del Martingal
- Rose Park Stadium
- Estadio do Maracana
- Estadio do Morumbi
- Estadio Mineirao
- Arena Corinthians
- Estadio Beira-Rio
- El Monumental
- La Bombonera
- Saitama Stadium 2002
- Estadio Campeones
- Coliseo de los Deportes
- Hoofdstad Stadion
- KONAMI Stadium
- Sports Park
- Anfield Road (DLC)
- Signal Iduna Park (DLC)
 
What I love about this game is how everyone, defenders and keepers, do whatever is possible for them to dodge the balls bath, and the ball behaves in a very convincing way.

The result is moments like the one below on that video, wich really reminds me of PES from the old good days.

https://youtu.be/sU8QKXIr9BQ
 
vxcmplx said:
Sorry it it sounds confusing. But I feel just within one comment like yours, there's quite a lot of things that we are commenting on, from different games, different pass settings. I mean, it does highlight the general feeling you get from playing manual/assisted, but it's helpful to be specific about what exactly you think causes the problem.

Peace and love. Just discussing.
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Absolutely! :D

I'm glad manual is there for the guys who love playing that way - and I can totally understand why people would want to. I wouldn't want that option taken away, either.

My comment was only applicable to the guys who don't think passes should go astray on pass assist level 1, yet play on manual, where passes are going to go astray.

As Matt has just said, and as Romagnoli has said before now, playing with FIFA's semi-passing and altering the AI's pass error means you can get the best of both worlds:

I get an interpretation of my input that isn't so strict that I have to be perfect with my aim when I'm using a great passer, but also, the pass won't always be on the perfect path (and PES feels so much more organic this year that I can't see any reason why they have to be any more), so you see a greater variety of gameplay (less ping-pong where it would be too difficult to rely on), and you can alter the AI's pass error so that they're effectively playing with the same "controller settings" as you are.

There are also people who say that nobody's idea of how to balance passing (i.e. attributes vs input) is perfect because everyone thinks it should be slightly more this or that.

To them I say... If we had sliders for the offline gameplay... We could have it exactly how we wanted it. I think that would be massively helpful.
 
Chris Davies said:
Absolutely! :D

I'm glad manual is there for the guys who love playing that way - and I can totally understand why people would want to. I wouldn't want that option taken away, either.

My comment was only applicable to the guys who don't think passes should go astray on pass assist level 1, yet play on manual, where passes are going to go astray.

As Matt has just said, and as Romagnoli has said before now, playing with FIFA's semi-passing and altering the AI's pass error means you can get the best of both worlds:

I get an interpretation of my input that isn't so strict that I have to be perfect with my aim when I'm using a great passer, but also, the pass won't always be on the perfect path (and PES feels so much more organic this year that I can't see any reason why they have to be any more), so you see a greater variety of gameplay (less ping-pong where it would be too difficult to rely on), and you can alter the AI's pass error so that they're effectively playing with the same "controller settings" as you are.

There are also people who say that nobody's idea of how to balance passing (i.e. attributes vs input) is perfect because everyone thinks it should be slightly more this or that.

To them I say... If we had sliders for the offline gameplay... We could have it exactly how we wanted it. I think that would be massively helpful.
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I actually agree that we should have more "pass error". My word for this is "inconsistency". It should be based on player stats? I feel that's different from accuracy as well. A guy can be accurate, but inconsistent, right? So he has good accuracy, but doesn't always deliver. I also feel the same with dribble accuracy and dribble consistency. There are players like that in reality.

I don't think it should be just in the sliders. I want it to effect me as well. If i have a player with poor consistency stat, I don't want him to always listen to my inputs perfectly. I kinda want to see some passes/touches that surprises me. It feels a little dead to see my dribbles and passed all come out as expected, coz I have a good handle on their accuracy, and every pass/touch from that player has the same accuracy, always.

I agree with PES feeling more organic this year. A step in the right direction.
 
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