PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

I've tried manual in every iteration of this game since like 2011 and feel it's more about MY human execution. I will try again on this game and report my findings. My opinions are based on a lot of experience with 2016 (where I had similar complaints) early on and 5 hours of this demo.
 
Dabrawn262 said:
-1...And I've heard the argument for manual, but I want stats/balance/foot preference to have a greater influence on where the ball goes. I don't want to rely on my own execution.
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That's the problem with playing footy games, you are going to rely on your own execution most of the time, The only game where that wont happen is Football Manager.
 
geeeeee said:
I'm not saying its simulation, im just enjoying the game.

If im honest ive spent years, since PES5, trying to find a decent footy game. Ive been looking at all the faults in all the games that have been released since then and i never found a decent one. But a few months ago i decided to let go of all that and just accept the games (FIFA and PES) for what they are. Since then i have been enjoying them both. PES 2017 as it is at the moment seems a vast improvement on 2016. Im hoping the new FIFA is better too. That way there will be two great footy games to play. Yes i know it has its faults but im just trying to let it go. ;)
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See there's an opinion I can understand, even if I disagree.
 
geeeeee said:
That's the problem with playing footy games, you are going to rely on your own execution most of the time, The only game where that wont happen is Football Manager.
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You're right, but I guess I mean I want a balance between my execution and stats. I've always hated full assist for example.
 
Dabrawn262 said:
You're right, but I guess I mean I want a balance between my execution and stats. I've always hated full assist for example.
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Atm PA 1 is overly assisted on the other side, it does'nt take into consideration the stats good enough either. But each to their own I guess. :) I agree with that Manual passing isn't really absolute manual, L2 + x is though.
 
mehuk said:
Surely thats the point of having the slider? So you can change it to -1 and not worry about the standard speed? Its the one area of the game I dont get why people complain, well not complain, maybe gripe over... as Konami give you 5 options... standard, +1 +2 -1 -2.
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well, it's no complaining: i love the game in many ways. it has the potential to become the game to play a full year and then to die for a new one, pes 2018.
 
For me the things that could be better are definitly:

1 - Making shooting more contextual, based on body position, Foot, and stats like power, and accuracy. Sometimes shooting is to powerfull, it should only be this way if all the contexts mentioned were 100% right

2 - MAke passing more contextual, baased on body position, pass accuracy, and prefered foot stats.

3 - Get out the ood the stumble animation

4 - Fix the problem of CPU backing all his team to defense once they loose ball possession. ( if you notice well, once they lose possession the atk/dfs level goes blue full defense and they all track back even if the ball is on attacking third)

5 - Ball still looks a lot like bowling in ground passes, it should booble more, and not loose speed so fast, even on wet short grass conditions.

6 - Remove the moondiving keeper animation please, the one where they grab a powerfull shoot like they fly to it even before it goes out of players foot and grab it in the air falling slowly.


I am liking very much of what i have seen in the demo. At least none of this things i mentioned is gamebreakers at least for me, but it would be much much better for me if they are fixed in some sort of way.
 
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Ppl moaning over to much assist on pass level one?
You either play ass or not,and moaning about it "not being real" on pass assist?
Guess what,it's not,it's not sim,not supposed to be,it's ASSISTED!
Deal with it or learn how to play manual.
Sorry for the bitching,but some people are hard to please I guess.
Find manual pass being harder than last year which is great
 
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h3li0 said:
For me the things that could be better are definitly:

1 - Making shooting more contextual, based on body position, Foot, and stats like power, and accuracy. Sometimes shooting is to powerfull, it should only be this way if all the contexts mentioned were 100% right
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Whilst I agree with your sentiments, I don't think it would work in practise. Already the defence and GK's are pretty good at keeping the player out - increasing the error in shooting in the way you describe would lead to so many broken controllers in my opinion. PES 5 and 6 had this and it always felt off to me. I would build a great attack and get in on goal only to watch him sky it because I pressed square a fraction too early or late. Too frustrating. It's a game and supposed to be fun. A full-on football simulation is never going to happen because it is impossible to program every possible variable.
 
rockstrongo said:
Peppe moaning over to much assist on pass level one?
You either play ass or not,and moaning about it "not being real" on pass assist?
Guess what,it's not,it's not sim,not supposed to be,it's ASSISTED!
Deal with it or learn how to play manual.
Sorry for the bitching,but some people are hard to please I guess.
Find manual pass being harder than last year which is great
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Interesting, that's the first time i've seen someone say manual feels harder.

Would be delighted if that's the case, can't wait to play tomorrow.
 
scholes1 said:
Interesting, that's the first time i've seen someone say manual feels harder.

Would be delighted if that's the case, can't wait to play tomorrow.
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It's harder than 16, more sensitive,I come from 3 seasons of ML on 16,and it's a big difference.
Give it a go when you have the chance,it's very tough on reg game speed,easier on -1, still harder than 16 though
 
I don't agree with the argument about Football Manager etc. It's one that's popped up occasionally for years - especially when I was campaigning for FIFA to be more of a sim - and I don't really agree with it in principle. It's a slippery slope argument, as if the choices are we either go for all or nothing. We don't have to go 100% one way or the other - that's where game design comes in, and where the art involved in subconsciously getting players to play a certain way really shines through.

I always think based on what the ideal football game in 50-100 years would be, provided it was 1v1. In that ideal world, you would control players with your mind. There would be no controller. Playing the game would be about thinking the instructions you want your players to try and execute - 'pass into that space so he can run on to it', or 'run tight onto him so he can't turn around or pass to that player', or 'cross it to that particular space at the back post'.

The assist levels might change there in terms of letting the player decide exactly the best way to hit that pass/cross/shot, I suppose. So you could argue you're never fully free of interpretation of what assists should do. But ideally, just as I don't want footballers to be capable of routinely doing something they could never do IRL, I also don't want to move to a situation where the reason you don't try something is because you can't do it. That's a hole that Clubs fills, IMO.

I'll give manual another go tonight, but I've played it before and I've seen videos of others. If real football was like manual football games, then the short passing game would be more like 80's / 90's football. There would be a lot more long passes along the ground or in the air, and there'd be more dribbling because there's more control in that than in regular passing. And the sport would be really slow because that's how people need to set the game in order to have time to line up their pass/shot.



Loved Matt's vid btw, when he pointed out that saying 'play the game in the right way' is getting the order of things messed up. I've made that point about playing manual, and about how technically you could play FIFA or PES as if it was an amazing sim, but it would all come crashing down if you played someone who was just playing as a game and could exploit basic flaws.

I'm not playing a game to act like it's fun and realistic. If I'm having to pretend, then I'm not actually giving it my all, and it isn't genuinely exhilarating because I'm exercising restraint. I'm having to remember random rules I've made for myself. I get you can't get rid of every exploit - but the fewer there are, the more people turn to genuine tactics, like the long ball, or the short passing game, or quick counters, or building from a solid middle. There are several schools of thought, ways of playing the game which work or don't, and which beat and lose to other schools and have to adapt. It all evolves.

As soon as one exploit just works, everybody uses it, and there's only one or two schools of thought out there. And it's not football anymore.
 
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Has anybody noticed the Adaptative AI feature?

I played the game for about 8 hours and I think it works fine. Now it's more difficult to exploit the game. I've scored from outside the box and for the next minutes CPU AI overcrowded this area to avoid another shoot. Then I start to cross from the flanks of the box and the CPU AI starts to pressure my winger with two players.

I think this is the way to make a challenging football game.
 
bluewomble88 said:
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, I don't think it would work in practise. Already the defence and GK's are pretty good at keeping the player out - increasing the error in shooting in the way you describe would lead to so many broken controllers in my opinion. PES 5 and 6 had this and it always felt off to me. I would build a great attack and get in on goal only to watch him sky it because I pressed square a fraction too early or late. Too frustrating. It's a game and supposed to be fun. A full-on football simulation is never going to happen because it is impossible to program every possible variable.
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I dont look for perfect simulation, but its possible to have that variables into account and have fun and PES 6 and 5 where fun enough and have this into account. Thats what distinct the good strikers from bad ones, otherwise shooting with Ronaldo, Messi or Payet becomes the same as shooting with Chiellini, or Pepe etc.

For me its most frustrating to break a defense and then scoring a goal a the top corner with giroud right foot when out of balance and sideways to the goal, then to miss it because i will know i miss it because is weak foot accuracy is low, and i should have put less strength on it or pointed less to the corner, and body position wasn´t the best.

But a i´m talking more about outside the area shooting, where this contexts should matter the most. As an example, You pointing the same place and giving the same amount of strenght with Messi, will hit the spot or near the spot you pointed 8 out of 10 times if with is left foot and in a good position, whereas if its with is weaker foot as he as a good weaker foot stat accuracy i will only hit 5 or 6 out of 10 near the spot i pointed and with less strenght, and the other 3 or 4 a little wider.


But this is my point of view. Don´t know if you guys remember a short video i think of PES where there where a blue player shooting at goal and the hitmarks differed based on stats etc etc.
 
yasujiro said:
Has anybody noticed the Adaptative AI feature?

I played the game for about 8 hours and I think it works fine. Now it's more difficult to exploit the game. I've scored from outside the box and for the next minutes CPU AI overcrowded this area to avoid another shoot. Then I start to cross from the flanks of the box and the CPU AI starts to pressure my winger with two players.

I think this is the way to make a challenging football game.
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In my video a few pages back I tried to play exactly to one tactic,down the wing,and the close you down after a while,hard!
 
And my bitching keeps coming.
On assisted passing,what's the "right" level has to be very subjective?
Meaning,what's right for you,might not be right for 75 000 others and the other way around.
So how should/could Konami make that perfect?
Just because you think it's overpowerd,some might not?
Just like the shooting,I think that's quite good in 17, and some don't
 
A quote from another forum

"also worried about the new fouls, obviously been added because people moaning about never being fouled by cpu, but for Team Play online this could cause start stop games as with Legends you dont get much time on the ball and any slight knock now is a foul"

Aargh!!!!!!
 
pepper63 said:
NO NO NO NO, Zee don't ask for that we'll return to floating shots that were the equivalent of a wet fart in a storm..:RANT:
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Please don't touch anything. When Konami listen to the fans feedback always ends breaking the game. I think this demo is the closest to the beautiful game we've ever had.

For example in PES 2014 fans feedback was unfair and Konami changed the pace of the game, in PES 2015 and PES 2016 the pace was too fast. Now Konami is trying to offer a more 'realistic' game and PES 2017 has a perfect pace on -1 speed, PES 2014 style.
 
geeeeee said:
A quote from another forum

"also worried about the new fouls, obviously been added because people moaning about never being fouled by cpu, but for Team Play online this could cause start stop games as with Legends you dont get much time on the ball and any slight knock now is a foul"

Aargh!!!!!!
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I hope they dont listen to these clowns :RANT:
 
Playing it for a while now, I'm not convinced with the passing attribute, I have to go down to -2 speed to see the difference, would be great if konami had -1 as the default speed and passing speed at -2 would be perfect, other wise passing is way too fast on default, also don't like the fact how you can easily disposes the ball from superstar players especially when playing on superstar, don't like that, hopefully come release those players can shield the ball better.
 
Played 3 games vs a friend today and all i can say is how good this game and plays everything better than 16, a great step forward, th pace the build up its hardee to acore goals but over the top througg balls u d to time it to make it and the only thing i found a bit like 16 is the foul barges are still there to an extent
 
I like the default pace, because some games tend to be faster, but others are slower as its the case if you play with France or Germany. But if you play with barca against Arsenal it is faster because approach to game its different, so please Konami let the default speed as it is now, because online it will be slower because of the input lag, and if the game is slower on default it would become sluggish.

For the ones who only play offline you have the slider, so dont aks the game to be slower please.
 
rockstrongo said:
That's going to be a tough one mate.
Which difficulty?
I imagine fully manual on SS with standard game speed will be a challenge.
Report back how it felt please
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Well I lasted one half and chickened back to level 1 pass and basic shooting :LOL:

And erm, I switched to -2 speed! Don't know how you guys can play on default.
 
rockstrongo said:
Ppl moaning over to much assist on pass level one?
You either play ass or not,and moaning about it "not being real" on pass assist?
Guess what,it's not,it's not sim,not supposed to be,it's ASSISTED!
Deal with it or learn how to play manual.
Sorry for the bitching,but some people are hard to please I guess.
Find manual pass being harder than last year which is great
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You might notice that there are different levels of assist. Nothing wrong with thinking that there should be a level between manual and the current level 1 assist.
It's not a case of learning to play manual either, most people who 'moan' about pass assist 1 probably play manual alot anyway - but it's not an ideal solution since it basically removes player stats
 
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