PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Banksy said:
PESninja

I play unassisted because it gives me more not less..don't tweak sliders and I'm not looking for something that I don't get when playing assisted.

Just like to control everything and not let the cpu make those decisions or have that level off control.

I'm also old school but I don't live in a delusion that everything was so much better once or that football games now aren't on a completely different level.

I get huge amounts of enjoyment still and the gameplay is superior now as is the technology.
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To each their own, PES 2016 is broken on the fundamentals and I get more enjoyment playing PES 5 or even games like PES 2013. If you can "delude" yourself to think PES 2016 is an acceptable representation of football, then have fun.
 
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PESNinja said:
To each their own, PES 2016 is broken on the fundamentals and I get more enjoyment playing PES 5 or even games like PES 2013. If you can "delude" yourself to think PES 2016 is an acceptable representation of football, then have fun.
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Cool..you don't want a adult discussion you just want to come on here,berate pes16 and others because you believe it's a shallow experience devoid of any sense of realism.

I just can't see what your hoping to achieve and your generalising a lot of mature,intelligent people on here that openly can see what pes16 needs,yet,choose to just accept things need to be better and that the focus needs to be on pes17 not pes13 and 5..

Your also making the assumption that football games now are just a shallow thrill ride for a younger generation and they require no thought or skill.

Just bad retoric and poorly thought out terminology.Totally non productive and it just creates a bad vibe.
 
I'll just say real quick that let's not forget what age group the current demographic for PES should be in its strongest form. It should be geared towards us 25-34 year olds. That's about the sweet-spot of PES4-6, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the remarks of older PES games will be used to put a hopeful direction towards PES17.

Essentially, KONAMI know what they're doing, they know the buzzwords to use and they know who is intensely watching for those nostalgic moments. I'm not sure how it is anywhere else, but in the US, companies are marketing back old cereals, 90's movies, 90's toys, etc - so it shouldn't be a surprise that KONAMI may be going that same direction.

While the tone of the message can always be more tactful, the message itself is - we're buying into it - but we're also not going to just accept moments that don't fall within that older PES baseline, and fundamentals. This mature group was built as a product of older PES lovers, and it should not be a priority to shun them or disregard their passion.
 
Matt10 said:
I'll just say real quick that let's not forget what age group the current demographic for PES should be in its strongest form. It should be geared towards us 25-34 year olds. That's about the sweet-spot of PES4-6, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the remarks of older PES games will be used to put a hopeful direction towards PES17.

Essentially, KONAMI know what they're doing, they know the buzzwords to use and they know who is intensely watching for those nostalgic moments. I'm not sure how it is anywhere else, but in the US, companies are marketing back old cereals, 90's movies, 90's toys, etc - so it shouldn't be a surprise that KONAMI may be going that same direction.

While the tone of the message can always be more tactful, the message itself is - we're buying into it - but we're also not going to just accept moments that don't fall within that older PES baseline, and fundamentals. This mature group was built as a product of older PES lovers, and it should not be a priority to shun them or disregard their passion.
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In the Iss days you controlled the players feet,direction on everything and you also had aftertouch.The level of control you had in those days has never returned.Many now wouldn't stick with those games for a day,let alone put the dedication in it took to get those older games to shine.Your talking 6 buttons on the n64 controller face,a trigger button on the base and two shoulder buttons as well as a analog thumb stick.Some of the one two combos were all button combinations.

The ball might not of been a free entity,and the technology wasnt anywhere near were we are now,but they did have rock solid refs(different levels of strictness),great keepers,stats,individuality and good ai.

It wasn't much different in pes as it evolved and although the philosphy was different and the ball free,they still in essence worked on the same principal but with more limited control and 8 axis movement off the d-pad.

The reality we are talking about these things in 2016 does baffle me,especially as some of these smaller issues were never there before and should of been something that carried over as standard.

Never discount the old,there's so many things still in both pes and Fifa now that are a legacy of those games and many of these so called new ideas and systems are just remodelled attributes that have enhanced both Fifa and pes tenfold since 2008,yet were prevalent even in simpler times.

Pes productions have just struggled to model a older style of game into something that is more representative of the strides Fifa made and that was mainly technology driven,animation,ai,physics.

Don't discount pes Matt,they made massive strides last year and I've seen them before finetune a good game into something pretty special.Are pes16 issues gamebreakinng or are they the product of a game that needs more fine tuning.
 
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Banksy said:
Cool..you don't want a adult discussion you just want to come on here,berate pes16 and others because you believe it's a shallow experience devoid of any sense of realism.

I just can't see what your hoping to achieve and your generalising a lot of mature,intelligent people on here that openly can see what pes16 needs,yet,choose to just accept things need to be better and that the focus needs to be on pes17 not pes13 and 5..

Your also making the assumption that football games now are just a shallow thrill ride for a younger generation and they require no thought or skill.

Just bad retoric and poorly thought out terminology.Totally non productive and it just creates a bad vibe.
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Agree with this.

5 was great, I loved it but I also enjoyed 3,4 & 6!!! But it's a different era and full of nostalgia. I have moved on from those days and actually enjoyed 16 but can see where it needed to be improved. From what I can see it looks to play a better game, but you cannot please everyone!
 
How many more times are people going to bang the sales drum?

It's like the new go to. Fifa sales are also falling just by the way 7% 14-15 and another 7% Fifa 15-16

Maybe we should have a separate thread to discuss gaming economics ffs.
 
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From the videos i see that the robotic running animations and playing on rails is still there in pes17. Thanks but no thanks again konami...
 
zeemeister said:
How many more times are people going to bang the sales drum?

It's like the new go to. Fifa sales are also falling just by the way 7% 14-15 and another 7% Fifa 15-16

Maybe we should have a separate thread to discuss gaming economics ffs.
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Sales discussion is lovely,it means that both Justin Bieber and 1D is top quality as well.
 
Banksy said:
In the Iss days you controlled the players feet,direction on everything and you also had aftertouch.The level of control you had in those days has never returned.Many now wouldn't stick with those games for a day,let alone put the dedication in it took to get those older games to shine.Your talking 6 buttons on the n64 controller face,a trigger button on the base and two shoulder buttons as well as a analog thumb stick.Some of the one two combos were all button combinations.

The ball might not of been a free entity,and the technology wasnt anywhere near were we are now,but they did have rock solid refs(different levels of strictness),great keepers,stats,individuality and good ai.

It wasn't much different in pes as it evolved and although the philosphy was different and the ball free,they still in essence worked on the same principal but with more limited control and 8 axis movement off the d-pad.

The reality we are talking about these things in 2016 does baffle me,especially as some of these smaller issues were never there before and should of been something that carried over as standard.

Never discount the old,there's so many things still in both pes and Fifa now that are a legacy of those games and many of these so called new ideas and systems are just remodelled attributes that have enhanced both Fifa and pes tenfold since 2008,yet were prevalent even in simpler times.

Pes productions have just struggled to model a older style of game into something that is more representative of the strides Fifa made and that was mainly technology driven,animation,ai,physics.

Don't discount pes Matt,they made massive strides last year and I've seen them before finetune a good game into something pretty special.Are pes16 issues gamebreakinng or are they the product of a game that needs more fine tuning.
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Really good post, Banksy. Very much appreciated. Took me back to the days of Goal Storm and ISS :)

I think that's why when we think about the current predicament of the game, it's hard not to appreciate what strides the series had made before - and on another level. There are several other series like this, and I think companies will constantly be battling ghosts of the past - the problem with PES is that the perceived ghost of the past is sitting at a very high pedestal, forever to be the expected base to build from.

I never discount PES. I'm a PES fan first, always have been, it's where this love of sports gaming started. The only reason I played FIFA was because there was a time when PES wasn't on the PC, and I really needed to learn about what video cards were so I could get T&L hardware on my FIFA - so I could see numbers on the back of player's kits :) .

The second PES3 reached the PC, it was game over for FIFA, they never caught up until 2011 for me.
 
So the same people return and are disappointed over and over for many years? Why just not quit and play something else? I mean if all you can say is 'Same as last 10yrs' you are not enlightening us with any wisdom. Give more please explain.
 
pepper63 said:
So the same people return and are disappointed over and over for many years? Why just not quit and play something else? I mean if all you can say is 'Same as last 10yrs' you are not enlightening us with any wisdom. Give more please explain.
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We all want a great pes game every year and konami dissapoint us every year instead...Fix the damn robotic animations konami! Ten years have past! Mercy!
 
polakis said:
Yes, maby because its true? Konami uses same robotic animation for 10 years now...
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10 years man... One full decade. Thats too much time.

If you consider this to be so fundamental for your enjoyment, you should just give up and.. who knows, quit PES and leave the forum ?

I dont want to sound rude but theres no point comming here annually in the last 10 years just to complaint about the same thing.

Let us all peasants trying to find some enjoyment on our beloved robotic game. PES 2016 was bad, but I can feel PES 2017 is going to be a very good game.

As I said before, the current scenario is very, very similar to PES 2012-2013. PES 2017 is aiming to be the PES 2013 of this generation. I think many were happy with PES 2013 and its very likely that the same will happen to PES 2017.
 
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DuduBR9 said:
10 years man... One full decade. Thats too much time.

If you consider this to be so fundamental for your enjoyment, you should just give up and.. who knows, quit PES and leave the forum ?

I dont want to sound rude but theres no point comming here annually in the last 10 years just to complaint about the same thing.

Let us all peasants trying to find some enjoyment on our beloved robotic game. PES 2016 was bad, but I can feel PES 2017 is going to be a very good game.

As I said before, the current scenario is very, very similar to PES 2012-2013. PES 2017 is aiming to be the PES 2013 of this generation. I think many were happy with PES 2013 and its very likely that the same will happen to PES 2017.
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13 was a great game,then and now,and 16 is a great game now pre patch.
Can't really take the whining serious,criticisms yeah,robotic whining from people,not necessarily the one above,just so idiotic.
If we are stupid to play PES vs the almighty FIFA,then let us, I enjoy both,but love playing PES
I have high hopes for 17, if tweaked,and a step up from 16,it will make it a good game.
Although I find the sugar coated critic the worst.
I like PES,but.....
Let's hope for a good game,don't think that certain people would admit it being good even it it turns out that way.
 
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I think once PES beats FIFA on animations and things like that, FIFA won't be a match to PES no matter what licenses FIFA has now. If the things about PES 2017 is true gameplay wise, by next year PES needs to focus on players movement and foot planting and it will be truly the best football game ever made. Also change the set pieces for FK and PK (didn't see the new one tbh). But I like the new corner kick tactics, and the guideline should only be made for it. Little things like kits and net physics will also be very nice. Not to forget bringing back the stadium creator.
 
Banksy said:
Cool..you don't want a adult discussion you just want to come on here,berate pes16 and others because you believe it's a shallow experience devoid of any sense of realism.

I just can't see what your hoping to achieve and your generalising a lot of mature,intelligent people on here that openly can see what pes16 needs,yet,choose to just accept things need to be better and that the focus needs to be on pes17 not pes13 and 5..
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For god sakes, you act like I'm insulting you and your family by criticizing PES 2016. Which outside the "bubble" is seen as one of the worst installments in the series.

PES needs to not be FIFA clone, just like Silent Hill needs to not be a dungeon crawler and MGS should be A Hideo Kojima game.

This franchise peaked in sales when marketed as the superior football simulation and backed it up on the pitch. You and others claim PES 2016 is the best representation of football we ever had, I don't agree and gave you better examples (PES 5 and PES 2013).

Obviously the focus on Konami's part needs to be on PES 2017, I don't see how bringing this up is relevant to our discussion over which game is a better representation of football.

Banksy said:
Your also making the assumption that football games now are just a shallow thrill ride for a younger generation and they require no thought or skill.

Just bad retoric and poorly thought out terminology.Totally non productive and it just creates a bad vibe.
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Yes, that's my opinion, can you please not be offended by it?
I don't care about vibes. I'm not a fanboy nor a Konami employee, I will give my opinion about what I see and will discuss with those willing to have a disagreement without insulting or pulling victim cards.
 
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PESNinja said:
For god sakes, you act like I'm insulting you and your family by criticizing PES 2016. Which outside the "bubble" is seen as one of the worst installments in the series.

PES needs to not be FIFA clone, just like Silent Hill needs to not be a dungeon crawler and MGS should be A Hideo Kojima game.

This franchise peaked in sales when marketed as the superior football simulation and backed it up on the pitch. You and others claim PES 2016 is the best representation of football we ever had, I don't agree and gave you better examples (PES 5 and PES 2013).

Obviously the focus on Konami's part needs to be on PES 2017, I don't see how bringing this up is relevant to our discussion over which game is a better representation of football.



Yes, that's my opinion, can you please not be offended by it?
I don't care about vibes. I'm not a fanboy nor a Konami employee, I will give my opinion about what I see and will discuss with those willing to have a disagreement without insulting or pulling victim cards.
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please do not forget that its your opinion and not a fact.
a lot of people think its a great game and that they are back on the right track.
to those who think its a FIFA clone........you have no understanding of football at all.
fifa never achieved what PES has achieved.
 
PES94 said:
I think once PES beats FIFA on animations and things like that, FIFA won't be a match to PES no matter what licenses FIFA has now. If the things about PES 2017 is true gameplay wise, by next year PES needs to focus on players movement and foot planting and it will be truly the best football game ever made. Also change the set pieces for FK and PK (didn't see the new one tbh). But I like the new corner kick tactics, and the guideline should only be made for it. Little things like kits and net physics will also be very nice. Not to forget bringing back the stadium creator.
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personally i love the animations in PES much more then in FIFA . FIFA even gets it wrong with the player models and proportions.
fifa has licenses and presentation and most people love that.
understanding of football fundamentals team movements, player abilities and tactics are not present in any FIFA game.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
EA's holding so tight to it the BPL can't breath :))

yeah, it would be very interesting.
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even they know the answer believe me :SMUG: its all they got. the licenses.
that's why they try and to get them all.
if PES's gameplay is an 8 at the moment then Fifa is about a 6.
the best its ever been in years.
 
RAMAXWY said:
personally i love the animations in PES much more then in FIFA . FIFA even gets it wrong with the player models and proportions.
fifa has licenses and presentation and most people love that.
understanding of football fundamentals team movements, player abilities and tactics are not present in any FIFA game.
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I understand what you you mean and I agree but FIFA still looks a lot more realistic in terms of movement (not so much), and foot work. Animations is debatable but I think the running animations on FIFA is better, but not that good yet still more believable than PES. At other times PES has better animations too. It just shows PES if only they focus more on that it will look a lot more realistic overall. I think once they use a real player for foot planting, running, or ever walking, it will be much more realistic. Shooting and GK animations is better on FIFA too.
 
PES94 said:
I understand what you you mean and I agree but FIFA still looks a lot more realistic in terms of movement (not so much), and foot work. Animations is debatable but I think the running animations on FIFA is better, but not that good yet still more believable than PES. At other times PES has better animations too. It just shows PES if only they focus more on that it will look a lot more realistic overall. I think once they use a real player for foot planting, running, or ever walking, it will be much more realistic. Shooting and GK animations is better on FIFA too.
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Im seeing a big step up in term of animations for goalkeepers in PES 2017.

Some passing animations, specially for long air balls or for switching play, are just beautiful.

Fifa having better animations for shooting is really debatable. Fifa has some akward animations as well. Some shooting animations in PES 2017 are looking very good as well. I think R2 shooting animation is looking good in PES 2017, sometimes cleraly superior to Fifa's.

A type of shot that needs working in terms of animation is tap-ins. It desnt seem like players feet make real contact and impact on the ball. It still looks weird.
 
RAMAXWY said:
please do not forget that its your opinion and not a fact.
a lot of people think its a great game and that they are back on the right track.
to those who think its a FIFA clone........you have no understanding of football at all.
fifa never achieved what PES has achieved.
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+10000000000
 
polakis said:
Yes, maby because its true? Konami uses same robotic animation for 10 years now...
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choofed.gif
 
DuduBR9 said:
Im seeing a big step up in term of animations for goalkeepers in PES 2017.

Some passing animations, specially for long air balls or for switching play, are just beautiful.

Fifa having better animations for shooting is really debatable. Fifa has some akward animations as well. Some shooting animations in PES 2017 are looking very good as well. I think R2 shooting animation is looking good in PES 2017, sometimes cleraly superior to Fifa's.

A type of shot that needs working in terms of animation is tap-ins. It desnt seem like players feet make real contact and impact on the ball. It still looks weird.
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I agree

More Gifs from Elotrolado user Bond1

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PES94 said:
I understand what you you mean and I agree but FIFA still looks a lot more realistic in terms of movement (not so much), and foot work. Animations is debatable but I think the running animations on FIFA is better, but not that good yet still more believable than PES. At other times PES has better animations too. It just shows PES if only they focus more on that it will look a lot more realistic overall. I think once they use a real player for foot planting, running, or ever walking, it will be much more realistic. Shooting and GK animations is better on FIFA too.
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why do you think you see much more saved goals replays on the world wide web from PES instead of FIFA?
because they are worth saving to replay over and over again.
FIFA games, animations and goals never give you the same feeling. after watching your FIFA replays you always get the feeling that something looks wrong.
in PES you sometimes wanna save a simple trapping of the ball because the movement and everything around it looks that good.
FIFA suck in recreating the real game bro, especilly their animations, physics and models.
if you like it, that is fine ofcourse but you are in the minority.
just accept that.
 
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