PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread

dubcity said:
At least it's actually possible to have a 3-3 score line in PES, unlike FIFA lol.
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That´s not true, mate. Why claiming such crap?

klashman69 said:
To be honest in regards to the conversations above i think Honome made a fantastic post a few pages ago which are are forgetting regarding to enjoy the game don't read the discussion here. The discussion is good but I think when looking at the identifying the issues and moving forward for 2017 its like we are going round in circles.

PES 2016 has be disappointing which is clear. Thing is we are missing is its dam obvious what the problem with the game is. Its not lack of sliders, or old coding at all. Its like some people want the baby thrown out with the bathwater.

The movement and dribbling system is too basic and presents a lack of variables with shooting and passing. This creates the 'Tron running' effect as we see with the looped sprinting animation. Its PS1 basic its that bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Lf4br6_lQ

Look especially at 7:25 and the third goal when i start running with the ball with the goals i score and how the animation loops over and over. Thing is i foresaw this problem which has been present in both PES 2014/15 since the Fox Engine came in. Compare that tron running to this in 2013:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQQ4m-hDoU

look at 4:37 and the run with Agbonglahor. look how dynamic and responsive that run is.

Now you see the issue with PES between 2014-2016. They created a base in 2014 which was all about animations and physics for basic shooting, passing and jostling. They did little to no work on the sprinting/running at all.

No fouls? Lazer guided passing? Too easy to score? Its quite clear that the basic running system causes these issues due to lack for enough variables affecting the players velocity which creates the action. Every time you shoot and pass, notice how its so rare you player will be 'off balance', hence why its so easy!

Playing PES 2014-16 you know what i swear i cannot remember seeing one genuine 50/50 tackle, something that was so defined in PES 2013 i can do a whole compilation of 50/50' just in one match.

As me and Honome discussed PES is built in 3 year blocks and this is the last year of the 3 year block so for PES to move forward the key and by many miles the most important thing for PES 2017 is for Konami to work and build on the movement/run/sprint model. Lack of fouls, easy shooting and lazer passing will all be sorted when more variables are present

In theory this should not be a problem, one thing which is also abundantly clear PES 2015 or 2016 has no in any way utilize the PS4 power, graphically or in technology, the PC version is exactly the same as the PS4 version bar lightings being a bit better on the PS4, hell even more similar than last year and the spec needed to run it are the same as the PS3 games before it.

My big concern really is Konami's head office who don't give a dam about video games, rather than this pathetic hate of Adam and Asmir who are just two guys paid to promote the game, what they say is rather irrelevant to how you see the game. I think if either where honest about the game they would be sacked since its their job to promote Konami.

My concern with the record reviews and 9/10 is the head office will do a EA sports and demand to keep the game the way it is which would truly be a disaster. this year for PES 2017 it is crucial for PES Productions to focus heavily on evolving the game with the movement/dribble/run/sprint model.In theory all they need to do is recreate what was done in PES 2013 so the hope is there and they have proven themselves before, they must focus on it now.

lastly I feel here that we don't express ourselves and the love we have for football. For example Chris Davies says that he doesn't even understand the PES community anymore, if i can say, I'm a graphic designer, I love and enjoy creating things for people to share and enjoy, I spend happily more time editing PES or other things than using them. There are many others like this, and others who just enjoy playing. We all have things we like and dislike and we should focus on expressing what we like about whatever game and not being afraid people will disagree. This forum seems to be obsessed with 'realism' when the truth is it's all about what you enjoy and you shouldn't feel as if the way you play needs to be justified by anyone else.

Its why I said about people posting more videos as personally I see and take in a lot more about games from what I actually see rather than what is written.
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That runs between PES 2016 and 2013:
Isn´t it actually the possibility to push the ball ahead while sprinting?
Cause that was much better solved in PES 2013 when you double (or triple) the sprint button.
Because in your vid with Agbonlahor you see how he pushed the ball forward and sprints and then pushes it further.
This was changed since PES 2014 and I really missed those runs with the ball pushing forward more loose.

In PES 2014 - 2016 I kinda struggled with that...almost felt like that it´s random and I always would hardcore rapidly smash the R1 button as fast as I can.
 
Had two stinking games back to back last night as Roma v Palmeiras. Palmeiras nerfed into Barceiras. Those chipped through balls deep in your defensive third, then AI moving your defender slightly so they can score that one touch then one hit goal (into the corner) is driving me nuts. It's simply unstoppable and can only be code/script that just says right, here's a goal.

It seems to happen on Superstar when you've closed down all their normal passing lanes after they have held the ball for a considerable time. It's just basically the game deciding, here's the goal; you can see it a mile off. The shooting now that everyone has mentioned it is also starting to grate now. At least the CPU in FIFA hits it to the left or goal, right of goal, over the bar, different trajectories. When you can see a goal coming from certain positions for the CPU seconds before they actually shoot, it starts to get frustrating. It's not even the goal itself, I can live with that, but that same shitty corner shot. Grrrr. Totally bipolar.

I also feel this year I have less control over my defence. I feel that I have more control in FIFA now actually. From this aspect I feel that both games have switched positions. Whereas FIFA used to mess around with your defenders and stupid things would come from nowhere, I feel PES has picked up these traits. I think it was PES2013 maybe, or PES 2015, where I felt I had total control of my positioning, defenders and CPU positioning working with me. Is it the delayed cursor change, or simply the game just deciding something is going to happen?
 
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dubcity said:
At least it's actually possible to have a 3-3 score line in PES, unlike FIFA lol.
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chiefrocka4real said:
That´s not true, mate. Why claiming such crap?
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I really like FIFA but he's right. After five seasons or so on Legendary I've never seen more than 3 goals in a match, I don't think... They're all tight, scrappy games, no matter the fixture.

ccshopland said:
PS -

Anybody see that scripted piece of trash tonight. Newcastle 3-3 :)
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:LOL:

If I'd had Man United's current run of form, and then the AI scored that last-minute deflected goal into the corner, I'd never fucking play the game again, let's be honest. :LOL:

ccshopland said:
Had two stinking games back to back last night as Roma v Palmeiras. Palmeiras nerfed into Barceiras. Those chipped through balls deep in your defensive third, then AI moving your defender slightly so they can score that one touch then one hit goal (into the corner) is driving me nuts. It's simply unstoppable and can only be code/script that just says right, here's a goal.
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Yeah, I had the same last night. Again, I was switching between FIFA and PES every other game (Klash was talking about videos earlier, maybe I should start recording and/or streaming it).

When I played FIFA, I had a great game against Southampton, who had 84% pass accuracy (the lowest I've seen in FIFA for a while). But just when I thought "this is the best match I've had for ages", at 1-1, there was a 20 second spell where suddenly they started first-time-passing around the penalty area and scored a tap-in. There was nothing I could have done, and it totally spoilt the experience. If it hadn't happened, I'd have been raving about the game.

So I switched to PES, played against Aston Villa (who had a really high team chemistry for some reason), and it was just a game of "let's pull that defender out of position", "let's stutter your run so that you don't get to the loose ball in time" and "let's hit a load of lofted through-balls and frustrate the hell out of you".

FIFA always feels (to me) like it has this huge potential with the code that's already there, but the terrible AI execution spoils it all. Whereas PES feels (to me) like it's such a decrepit game at its core, but with better basics that allow more tactical differences. I feel like FIFA needs less work to be my vision of "perfect", but they may never have the real-world football knowledge to achieve it, whereas PES needs a lot more work, and they may never have the care (or budget) to achieve it.

I wonder if Winning Eleven sells in Japan like FIFA does everywhere else - meaning that we'd have two companies pumping out yearly football games that make millions, no matter how good or bad they are, and therefore give the devs no need to make any real changes...
 
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after extensive play in this game i have my final thoughts on what are the basic things of how this game should be played
1-this game is not made for manual passing, too much passes go astray and it's very hard to make a build up of possession when u play superstar,, because ai is hell bent on getting the ball from u no matter what and go to goal and score, with animation overriding etc, so best to play this game with 1 level of pass assistance .to add to that too many passing animations are gone with manual passing.,it is a game changer since i put 1 pass assistance after playing only manual passing.
2-manual shooting is best way to play, once u get the hang of it, ull feel the difference, aswell as through balls,but i find that basic through ball is much more realistic.
3-best difficulty to play is top player, it is a challenge but at the same time it's playable game.
this game has potential, but some things like fouls and penalty system should be made at least close to fifa.
 
Tried the scripting talk in my ML campaign which BTW is far too easy in the 1st season.
My team of no hopers played Tottenham in the 2nd round after a drubbing of Leeds in the first round.

My biggest star is Alcacer on a loan that I still can't afford (hope I make enough as the season progresses I need 10mil)

Top player 15 min games and 1 bar pass assist.

1st game I went 2 - 0 by half time. I set QPR (My team) to have Spurs and Arsenal as rivals. The game was brutal, they won every tackle loose balls always seemed to follow them like missiles. 2nd half I upped my composure only playing definite passes and not trying to take on Alderweireld and Vertonghen on rather creating space. The game ended 2-1 so I restarted. Next game I took a 1-0 lead same scenario but the better I played the more brutal they became committing foul after foul with far too many advantages and too few cards.

The game ended 3-1 to Spurs with Ericksen and Son tearing me to shreds with interplay around the box.

The last time I tried I tinkered to counter attack used my best form players and solid midfielders or at least the most solid at my disposal.

Everytime I took the lead they equalised when I fell behind 3-2 I managed to grab an equaliser to take it into extra time. End of stoppage time Alcacer managed to get on the end of a Bellerin cross and dick the ball over the amazing Lloris I was jumping and fist pumping like a mad man and knew it was going to be a tough second half ET.

Luckily I kept a few subs and they were pretty fresh opting to pass only when I saw a pass and made sure to play down the flanks.

The players were absolutely exhausted and you could see the difference in stamina. Townsend squandered a glorious chance to finish and the game ended 4-3

My point. Although insanely difficult to beat a top team like Spurs the game does allow it and the scripting is not completely debilitating.

Won't try that too many times as it will take forever to finish the season think I have Sunderland in the next round and hopefully not Arsenal.

All 3 of the games were absolute derbies the way the AI fouls and the amount of free kicks I won was great.
 
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zeemeister said:
Top player 15 min games and 1 bar pass assist.
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Maybe I need to move to Top Player to avoid it, then. I'm my own worst enemy - when I win on Top Player, I think "they didn't push me as hard as they should have", and then I complain about the cheating on Superstar...

Got to admit though, I watched that PES 2013 Klash posted earlier and I was pretty amazed at how much better the general midfield play looked (compared to either game this year). Might have to try and get hold of it, I dismissed it at the time but can't remember why.
 
Just read that post by zeemeister.
That is how it is on derbies and also in matches the cpu decides to win (minus the fouls).

When this game is too difficult, it is because the cpu cheats, otherwise it is often too easy. In ML i either loose in an unfair way (and it is not unfair because i loose) or otherwise i'm much better. You rarely see matches that end 3-2 or 2-1.

At the moment i play a league with Spurs. I was top of the table together wiht Man United. Just played them, this was a very good and satsifying match that ended in a 1-1 draw at Old Trafford. Spurs where the better team throughout the match, butMan Utd had the better chances in the second half. This is how it should always be (i wouldn't have mind loosing that match at all).
 
Dscru said:
Or only defending 1 AI cross in 10 matches... if you're lucky.


After it was a major problem last yr, and it was supposedly looked into and fixed for this yr, all I can say is good luck for AI shooting in '17
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Not sure if it works in 2016, but in 2015 I have given a lot of WG's, SMF's, and SB's the 'EARLY CROSS' com skill and removed 'MAZING RUN' or 'INCISIVE RUN'. I played some games where the CPU has put high crosses in, and low crosses, they mixed it up quite a bit.

I must stress that it SHOULDNT be up to us to edit these things and it takes time :BLEH: but it has made a difference in me liking PES2015. :))
 
I play on manual passing and shooting, -1 gamespeed, top player difficulty. For me this is the best settings for PES 2016.

I don't always win and dominate on professional, but the AI defense often makes basic mistakes. While on superstar, AI's two touches pass followed by hard low shot strike to corner is really annoying.

I agree level 1 passing looks more realistic and can bring out all the animations.. but for me it is too scripted. Level 1 passing is also more difficult because the AI defense knows where our pass will go so they can intercept.
 
Tactics actually work in this game, played as Real Sociedad v Real madrid last night in Ml on top player -1 speed all manual. I started off with 4-2-3-1 and quickly went 0-2 down with Madrid playing at incredible speed and accuracy. ..changed to a 4-4-2 and conceded again 0-3 and at this stage I was heading for a severe beating, they looked unstoppable .. .so I switched to 4-3-3 and lo and behold I started to claw my way back and scored 2 before half-time. I kept it at 4-3-3 but if I switched back to the other 2 formations Madrid would again dominate, I became the dominant team and equalised 3-3 and should have won the game but panicked a bit when finishing.

It was a great match when I figured out which formation to use. .at the start it looked like your normal common or garden scripted bullshit but changed after the formation change. . although I still had to work hard and defend well to draw.
 
gerd said:
Just read that post by zeemeister.
That is how it is on derbies and also in matches the cpu decides to win You rarely see matches that end 3-2 or 2-1.
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well i played many matches ending 3-1 or 4-2, my last match was barca vs valencia spanish cup final, match ended 2-2 full time, won in penalties thanks to ter stegen's penalty saving skills XD
 
zeemeister said:
Crap forgot to add I edited the EPL tactics from klashman69 blog. Fantastic work pal.
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I need to release a lot of new ones this week to get them out of the way, also from next season i will be doing them in .pdf format which means you can easily just download a whole set in one book.

'm looking at possibly creating an integrated website to easily store them on, like how PESmaster is done where you view stats anytime anywhere and compare them.
 
Been playing a few matches tonight with manual shot. Is it placebo or does this make the CPU have a higher shot error, as like the user?

Basically, does manual shot apply to both human and CPU?
 
ccshopland said:
Been playing a few matches tonight with manual shot. Is it placebo or does this make the CPU have a higher shot error, as like the user?

Basically, does manual shot apply to both human and CPU?
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I think setting shooting and passing does affect the CPU. You can see this especially from the passing, if you switch from manual passing to level 1, the AI starts to pass quicker and more precise.
 
Triple tap crosses were fixed.

Although manual volleys and header shooting is still useless for me. They outcome direction feels completely random and go nowhere near where I was aiming (even using L2). I've no luck with different timing, or double tapping etc.

Has anyone discovered a reliable method to get them to go where you're aiming.
 
Dscru said:
Triple tap crosses were fixed.

Although manual volleys and header shooting is still useless for me. They outcome direction feels completely random and go nowhere near where I was aiming (even using L2). I've no luck with different timing, or double tapping etc.

Has anyone discovered a reliable method to get them to go where you're aiming.
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Have you tried pointing the stick towards the goal? . . Only joking it takes a bit of time getting used to it. . use the bare minimum angle when shooting or heading left or right of the keeper. It's hard to judge the angle that you need if you're heading from a corner . .. your player will head whichever way he's facing so you'll need more of an angle. .or you can go into training mode and practise.
 
Played some lovely games last night, lower scoring ones too. Pass Level 1, Superstar, Manual shooting. Nice mix of shots on target and off. For once, Vagner Love wasn't fucking Messi. More like Brother Love. I have also found that by putting my two central defenders closer together and playing defensive narrow that I'm cutting out that cheap goal they score where you lose a second in cursor select. All round played a little tighter in terms of defensive AI. There is still the problem though of being able to just sprint full pace and the defenders keep backing off until you get well into the area.

But if the majority of the games played like last night, I can put up with the other niggles. Because it was manual too, I sensed either (quite obviously) the CPU shooting into corners wasn't as accurate, or that the keepers seemed all round better. Although could be Placebo Domingo!
 
ccshopland said:
Played some lovely games last night, lower scoring ones too. Pass Level 1, Superstar, Manual shooting. Nice mix of shots on target and off. For once, Vagner Love wasn't fucking Messi. More like Brother Love. I have also found that by putting my two central defenders closer together and playing defensive narrow that I'm cutting out that cheap goal they score where you lose a second in cursor select. All round played a little tighter in terms of defensive AI. There is still the problem though of being able to just sprint full pace and the defenders keep backing off until you get well into the area.

But if the majority of the games played like last night, I can put up with the other niggles. Because it was manual too, I sensed either (quite obviously) the CPU shooting into corners wasn't as accurate, or that the keepers seemed all round better. Although could be Placebo Domingo!
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Manual is way better than assisted, Pes is notorious for swings and roundabouts. .you can get 5 great games in a row then 3 sluggish then one where you get slaughtered. . I just go with the flow, some people get the 3 sluggish games and think it plays like that all the time .. you just have to weather the storm.
 
ccshopland said:
PS -

Anybody see that scripted piece of trash tonight. Newcastle 3-3 :)
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Yes, it was great. I thought Man Utd should have brought off Mike Dean for Howard Webb though and they would have won it.

Being a Newcastle fan we haven't had much to enjoy for a while. Our best memories of the past few years are come backs to draws at home. This and the Arsenal game where we were losing 4-0 and I nearly walked out at half time and ended up 4-4.

I am sure our games in the 90's would have been torn apart on here for being too arcade like if they had of been on PES
 
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maybe the Konami AI programmers should have a look at both 3-3's this week and look at what a foul looks like and there's such thing as a a penalty and also they may discover that balls can actually go into the top corner
 
hitmanuk said:
maybe the Konami AI programmers should have a look at both 3-3's this week and look at what a foul looks like and there's such thing as a a penalty and also they may discover that balls can actually go into the top corner
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But that's the thing though, PES' sometimes archaic gameplay just lends itself to being more life like and random. I'd liken FIFA to say, an England international friendly. Just sort of...nice. Also I've been using manual shot in PES last few days and it seems to have added more variance in the CPU shots. Still undecided though on which to get. At this rate it will be neither.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
That´s not true, mate. Why claiming such crap?



That runs between PES 2016 and 2013:
Isn´t it actually the possibility to push the ball ahead while sprinting?
Cause that was much better solved in PES 2013 when you double (or triple) the sprint button.
Because in your vid with Agbonlahor you see how he pushed the ball forward and sprints and then pushes it further.
This was changed since PES 2014 and I really missed those runs with the ball pushing forward more loose.

In PES 2014 - 2016 I kinda struggled with that...almost felt like that it´s random and I always would hardcore rapidly smash the R1 button as fast as I can.
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Yes, your right, but its deeper than that.

Not just the ability to push the ball ahead but the responsive way you can do it and also player starting and stopping naturally while, sprinting, running, jogging then walking and over again.

PES 2014 -2016 has had big problems with players always starting and stopping too abruptly rather than a natural and responsive transition.

Its not random at all,its that there simply hasn't been a system developed so the game focuses heavily on passing and shooting.

hitmanuk said:
maybe the Konami AI programmers should have a look at both 3-3's this week and look at what a foul looks like and there's such thing as a a penalty and also they may discover that balls can actually go into the top corner
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agree about lack of top corner goals.

fouls and penalties actually happen a bit more when you implement proper tactics though.

I've been doing a number of CPU vs CPU games and I've now seen 3 penalties been given which didn't happen at all before. Also AI cross a hell of a lot more now.



i find this game is quite nice watching CPU vs CPU.
 
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ccshopland said:
Link to a WENB post...

http://winningelevenblog.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23692&start=500

B-Man post is spot on about the Football Kingdom game. In many ways PES has regressed significantly. The shooting opinion he's spot on with too

https://www.youtube.com/embed/C-hoyfGLgfk
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Thanks of your thoughts :)

I want to make this clear because from fans and people at Konami I get the banter of "There goes Bman being negative again just enjoy the game blah blah fart sound this is why don't read evo-web if you enjoy the game"

If you are enjoying PES 2016 great if you are not great too. My focus is not bashing the game but how to make the game better. I never say PES sucks or this aspect of the game sucks and not offer solutions.

I am also waiting for the inevitable "dude I played that game it was a crap arcade fest blah blah queef sound"

Let me reiterate, I have never played Football Kingdom nor do I care if it was a crap game. What I am getting at is the elements mentioned "shooting/ball physics, heading/nets" gave more visual satisfaction over 10 years ago then we have today...WHY? I would love for that question to be answered by a developer. Tech has improved so shouldn't these things improve or be at the same level today?

In my opinion, I don't care how big of a PES fan boy someone is or how much they hate PES---if you compare side by side youtube videos of Football Kingdom goals to PES goals of the last decade I don't know how anyone could without any bias say viewing PES goals from 08-16 gives them more visual satisfaction then watching those Football Kingdom goals. (And PES 6 was really good in this department but I think Football Kingdom has it slightly beat but both visual satisfaction was top notch)

My point being if developers could do this 10 years ago why have those elements regressed? Where have those details gone? The reason PES was the footballers game was BECAUSE of the details. I spoke with a friend of mine who goes to a lot of video game events and plays both PES and FIFA and has played both for years ever since the PS1 days and he brought that up to me...right now FIFA is winning the "details" battle over PES and it still has more licenses.

There is always an excuse "who cares about nets"--well they add to the visual satisfaction/immersion of scoring a goal, "who cares CPU A.I. shots go low its all about the build up to the goal"--well if you are seeing the same A.I. goal time and time again doesn't it take you out of the immersion?, "Who cares about fouls it keeps the game fluid and flowing"--because free kicks and fouls are a fundamental part of football. etc. etc. etc. Always an excuse for why details have been lost or diminished over the years.

I'll end my post with this, if I had never played PS2 PES, or seen videos of Football Kingdom goals then I'd probably enjoy PES 2016 a helluva a lot more. Seriously. But the reality for me is I'VE PLAYED BETTER, I'VE SEEN BETTER..10 years ago...smooches
 
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