TommyC0ckles
Conference
- 13 July 2015
Bang on target with that post Bryan, about the defensive unit not working together and leaving gaps, spot on.
PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter zeemeister
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #8,192
zeemeister
foxy engine
Don't agree. Defense in PES is very much about strategy and keeping shape. Online I can see how badly some people defend because they tend to use high defensive lines and try to win the ball back as quickly as possible while the better players tend to be able to isolate attackers to force them into turning over possession.
Do you guys ever consider what man markers or players with good coverage Stat do.
I bet my bottom dollar nobody here uses the man marker ability at all.
PES is not perfect but fuck me it's not half as bad as you are making it to be either.
Do you guys ever consider what man markers or players with good coverage Stat do.
I bet my bottom dollar nobody here uses the man marker ability at all.
PES is not perfect but fuck me it's not half as bad as you are making it to be either.
You're right buddy, I'm having a great time playing it even though it has faults. I don't use man marking cos I find the defense can be dragged all over the kip with huge gaps.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
I don't think I've ever been so confused as to which one to buy this year. Every time I think I'll take the plunge for FIFA somebody says something to change my mind; and vice versa. And this coming from a long term PES fan.
My main concerns are -
Goalkeepers. Been playing a lot of FIFA demo because PES somewhat twatily doesn't have their demo on Store anymore, which I find just mind blowing. Anyway, keepers in FIFA demo seem excellent, and I don't want PES to be a 8, 9/10 game outside the box and a 2/10 game inside it.
CPU shot variance. Again, I've heard they score one type of goal. Over and over. Which also looks pap. Again in the FIFA demo I've been playing, the CPU does actually score some different goals.
Constant 4-4 scorelines. I must admit, when I played the PES demo on PS3 I had some really tight games, so cannot understand this, unless there is difference between the PS3 and 4. I play on Superstar mind, so I don't know.
These are sort of my primary concerns. Years gone by I would sweep the lot, FIFA 16, PES 16, PES 16 for this console for that console for the PC for the Wii. Overall I've shelled about 2.9 billion dollars into PES over the years as well as spending around 89 billion man hours editing it/importing/gameplay tweaks/patches etc etc.
I simply don't have the time or energy anymore to be doing all this shit, and so just want the product that will give me the most value for money.
Some guidance from my fella forumers would be ever so welcome.
My main concerns are -
Goalkeepers. Been playing a lot of FIFA demo because PES somewhat twatily doesn't have their demo on Store anymore, which I find just mind blowing. Anyway, keepers in FIFA demo seem excellent, and I don't want PES to be a 8, 9/10 game outside the box and a 2/10 game inside it.
CPU shot variance. Again, I've heard they score one type of goal. Over and over. Which also looks pap. Again in the FIFA demo I've been playing, the CPU does actually score some different goals.
Constant 4-4 scorelines. I must admit, when I played the PES demo on PS3 I had some really tight games, so cannot understand this, unless there is difference between the PS3 and 4. I play on Superstar mind, so I don't know.
These are sort of my primary concerns. Years gone by I would sweep the lot, FIFA 16, PES 16, PES 16 for this console for that console for the PC for the Wii. Overall I've shelled about 2.9 billion dollars into PES over the years as well as spending around 89 billion man hours editing it/importing/gameplay tweaks/patches etc etc.
I simply don't have the time or energy anymore to be doing all this shit, and so just want the product that will give me the most value for money.
Some guidance from my fella forumers would be ever so welcome.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
The gaps problem is only evident while playing against CPU, can't say using my team i have problems defending.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
Keepers are worse than Pes 2015 saving some shots, especially low shots
CPU shot variance is not so bad, they tend to score with low shots but the problem here is the gk, not the CPU. I conceded plenty of other kind of goals.
There are weird matches like 5-5, 6-3, even a 9-0, but those are like 10% of the games and again they depend on CPU defensive AI of low tier teams and low overall keepers.
I would say buy Fifa 16 anyway, because Pes 2016 is going towards a direction i don't like, while EA tried to achieve a more balanced gameplay, at least this year.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Not that it matters Ameppe, but I'd like to know also from people who wish to give me feedback whether they are historically PES players first and foremost (and PS2 hardcore at that too), or FIFA ones, or just those that buy whatever game they think is best each year. Many thanks.
Well, the free to play version of PES 2016 is the demo now.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
On PS4 mate yes, Playstation Store?
ive owned and played every ISS and PES/WE games from early 90's to PES 2008. i switched when the FIFA EURO game out. For 2014/15/16 i bought both on release but sold PES on each occasion. For FIFA 15 i sold that too but then bought it again as I wanted a football game.
FIFA 16 is certainly the game this year for me. The variation is superb and still seeing new things. PES just got too old too fast due to the repetitiveness and lack of variation as discussed on this thread
gerd
Retired Footballer
The people who are discussing right now are very sensible imo. Somebody asked a question and got a fair and honest, but subjective answer...
Surely, people should be able to make up their own mind even after reading other opinions.
I'm the first to react against very negative people, but this discussion was very sensible.
We can agree to disagree but I respect your opinion bro. I experience things a bit differently. I play on 1/2 bar passing and most of my matches against the A.I. end up with both me and the CPU having 88-93% pass completion percentage. So from my experiences I am winning the ball back most of the time through tackles and intercepting through balls. If Konami opened up the passing and made it less automated and more free then I think that would help with cutting off passing lanes.
I've been told Konami doesn't listen to me so don't worry nothing will change anyway haha
I use Man Marking occasionally with CBs but as you say Deco guys tend to get pulled out of position. I just find the defensive system weird. Why have my RB and my RM by the touchline on the opposite side of the pitch the ball is on? Shouldn't the guys be tucking inside to keep shape and help close off space in the center of the pitch where teams are the most dangerous? Doesn't make sense to me.
But I am happy you guys are enjoying the game
Sorry for double post I'm still getting used to this multi-quote system on eve-web lol
But I agree Gerd. Having better discussion on this page then I've had on WENB in a long time. I'm all about being constructive and offering solutions rather then ripping PES for the sake of ripping PES. And I know my opinion isn't Gospel and I don't pretend it to be. I respect everyones opinion.
PES 2016 may not be my game but I love PES and want nothing more then for it to be in my PS4 24/7
I think most on here are here because they are passionate about PES and footy games. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.
- Staff
- #8,205
Amen.
Once a month, I still put the 2016 disc in and try to love the game again. So I'm keeping hold of a game I don't like, on the off-chance that someone's editing discovery - or, less likely, a patch - makes the Master League and all of the crazy "team spirit" interference less crazy and more enjoyable, or makes online play seem balanced and more realistic.
I'd love PES to tick all the boxes, for me. It already does for some, and that's great. The frustration is that some of those boxes (on my personal PES wishlist) have been there for years and years.
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- Thread starter
- #8,206
zeemeister
foxy engine
We can agree to disagree but I respect your opinion bro. I experience things a bit differently. I play on 1/2 bar passing and most of my matches against the A.I. end up with both me and the CPU having 88-93% pass completion percentage. So from my experiences I am winning the ball back most of the time through tackles and intercepting through balls. If Konami opened up the passing and made it less automated and more free then I think that would help with cutting off passing lanes.
I've been told Konami doesn't listen to me so don't worry nothing will change anyway haha
I use Man Marking occasionally with CBs but as you say Deco guys tend to get pulled out of position. I just find the defensive system weird. Why have my RB and my RM by the touchline on the opposite side of the pitch the ball is on? Shouldn't the guys be tucking inside to keep shape and help close off space in the center of the pitch where teams are the most dangerous? Doesn't make sense to me.
But I am happy you guys are enjoying the game
No problem mate.
Have you looked at your defensive setup? Containment area in particular. If you set to wide the defense pushes the opposition onto wide areas whereby centre squeezes them to the middle.
About the keepers people are mentioning they have been patched about 3 weeks ago. Some keepers are near unbeatable but it's very much Stat based. The issue is that they have coded a higher success rate on low shots. (it's even a talking point in the commentary) another little blunder Defensive keepers trait for will not mean he will not rush out one one or attack the ball on corners it's absolutely daft system but it's what we stuck with.
Try a few matches against the like of buffon, Neuer, Cech or Courtouis. They are immense.
In my opinion defending is all about anticipating what the forwards are going to do and blocking it instead of trying to react to a move that's already in midflow. The same applies to attacking try not go for the obvious pass try something different. In both cases you might not get it right but when you do it's well worth it.
Defending is about anticipation but there's no doubt that on a number of occasions the AI will just decide to score , cut inside short pass then bottom corner..even Adam has come out and admitted defending issues that may not be fixed via a patch ..I'm also still keen to see some of these variety AI goals that some are reporting as it's a mystery to me because for the life of me I haven't seen them
Are you joking Hitman the AI scores tons of them . .it depends on the situation ie how well you're defending. This low shot in the corner lark happened a lot in the demo and before recent changes to the game, I rarely concede with the low shot corner job. I haven't any vids to show but if I could I would . . just haven't got the equipment to do it.
Actually I don't mind the low shot if it comes from a great move which happens fairly regularly. Lately the AI is sending in a long ball to a runner who chests it and scores similiar to alli's goal for Spurs against Everton the other day, or a great move which ends up with a header down to a team mate outside the box who volleys home. It might be down to the way people set up their tactics.. I don't know.
I know that with the scripting they score at will or if you stop them they keep hammering at the door for a couple of mins until they succeed. .I usually know when it's going to happen. .my Ps3 will make that stuttering sound just before the fatal blow ha ha!
- Staff
- #8,210
Tried this again last night after getting frustrated with FIFA and feeling constantly under pressure. Immediately the flow of PES provides a relief.
But where every game (and result) in FIFA feels incredibly similar to me, every game on PES feels predetermined by "team spirit", to the point where I know off the bat which games I should just skip to save time (if I had the choice).
It's just bizarre to me that you can play as a Premier League team against two poor teams in a row, with the same overall skill level but different "team spirit" scores, you'll destroy one 6-0, and the other will destroy you 6-0.
When they announced "team spirit" as a game mechanic, I was really excited, because it makes absolute sense to have to maintain team cohesion. But it doesn't really act as that, and I don't find I buy or sell players with it in mind (the UI doesn't offer much advice) - so it's useless and ruins gameplay to boot.
But I stuck with it, and enjoyed it, up until the first occurrence of "I pressed the cross button when the defender was behind me, but the game didn't like this, so nothing happened for three seconds, by which point the defender had caught up enough to deflect the ball away for a corner" - it's more noticeable than ever when the game cheats (or, if we don't want to call it that, "suffers response issues"), given how smooth the flow of the game is now. When your pass to the winger moves off in a split-second, but the cross/shot doesn't happen until the defender catches up... It stinks.
That being said, I enjoyed it more than usual (I started an ML as a Premier League team as opposed to a Championship team with poor team spirit from the off, which is a really shitty experience), so I'll be on it again tonight I'm sure.
But where every game (and result) in FIFA feels incredibly similar to me, every game on PES feels predetermined by "team spirit", to the point where I know off the bat which games I should just skip to save time (if I had the choice).
It's just bizarre to me that you can play as a Premier League team against two poor teams in a row, with the same overall skill level but different "team spirit" scores, you'll destroy one 6-0, and the other will destroy you 6-0.
When they announced "team spirit" as a game mechanic, I was really excited, because it makes absolute sense to have to maintain team cohesion. But it doesn't really act as that, and I don't find I buy or sell players with it in mind (the UI doesn't offer much advice) - so it's useless and ruins gameplay to boot.
But I stuck with it, and enjoyed it, up until the first occurrence of "I pressed the cross button when the defender was behind me, but the game didn't like this, so nothing happened for three seconds, by which point the defender had caught up enough to deflect the ball away for a corner" - it's more noticeable than ever when the game cheats (or, if we don't want to call it that, "suffers response issues"), given how smooth the flow of the game is now. When your pass to the winger moves off in a split-second, but the cross/shot doesn't happen until the defender catches up... It stinks.
That being said, I enjoyed it more than usual (I started an ML as a Premier League team as opposed to a Championship team with poor team spirit from the off, which is a really shitty experience), so I'll be on it again tonight I'm sure.
Elja
How's it guys?
- 11 October 2015
Team spirit is actually a good idea by konami. IRL team with lower abilities can stun bigger teams when the team has high morale, this make sense. The PES team just need to find the balance in future titles.
This is what should make PES shine compared to FIFA, like player morale for example. In PES player's with purple down arrow will play really bad, while in FIFA only the stamina bar is what I'm worried about.
This is what should make PES shine compared to FIFA, like player morale for example. In PES player's with purple down arrow will play really bad, while in FIFA only the stamina bar is what I'm worried about.
- Staff
- #8,212
Absolutely agree.
The issue is that in its current iteration (without balance), it ruins games with its heavy-handedness. I said goodbye to my lower-league ML save when I was put against a PL team with 90+ team spirit in the cup, and they scored a goal from kick-off that I could do literally nothing about (I restarted the game and they did it again, and again - in-fact, other people have mentioned it in this thread).
If they tone it down next year it'll be great - but this is Konami we're talking about. I doubt it's even on their radar.
Again, I absolutely agree.
But the morale in PES has been random for how many years now? When your striker scores a hat-trick and then he's got a purple arrow in the next game, there's no logic in that and it feels more like the game is trying to make your life awkward than simulate anything.
It's this collection of decade-old issues that guys like me have been complaining about all these years, that A) really annoys us (it's the ignorance / arrogance of Konami), and B) drives the guys like Honome mad because all we ever do here on Evo-Web is criticise the game... Which I apologise for. But, it's exasperating.
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Please share with me three different AI goals that go in above head height that aren't volleys, or show me three attempts that go over the bar..maybe its just me then
saintric
Premier League
- 9 October 2007
i have played well over 100 games in my master league save and have seen maybe 10 goals over gks waist height and a fair few missed chances by the AI over waist height I can upload some as I saved them with share button on my ps4
sadly thats just not enough to say the AI has variation in how they score most of these above waist height shots come from either a volley a header or a first time shot thats come in along the ground in my last game vs sassuolo who have origi upfront a ball came in along the ground and he sidefooted standing by the penalty spot and it hit the right top corner of the post i have to admit i would have liked to have seen that go in just to see something different lol
sadly thats just not enough to say the AI has variation in how they score most of these above waist height shots come from either a volley a header or a first time shot thats come in along the ground in my last game vs sassuolo who have origi upfront a ball came in along the ground and he sidefooted standing by the penalty spot and it hit the right top corner of the post i have to admit i would have liked to have seen that go in just to see something different lol
Team spirit is a great idea but typical Konami as its not implemented properly.
Ive sold this now. Got £24 on ebay. Happy days.
Ill be back next year to sample PES17.
The days of playing football games 24/7 is gone I think as both games could be so much better but fail.
I enjoy it more when I play on the off chance. But the thought of a Master League/Career mode bores me shitless.
After about 3 games Im done for another month. It never used to be like that but thats the way football games have gone now.
Ive sold this now. Got £24 on ebay. Happy days.
Ill be back next year to sample PES17.
The days of playing football games 24/7 is gone I think as both games could be so much better but fail.
I enjoy it more when I play on the off chance. But the thought of a Master League/Career mode bores me shitless.
After about 3 games Im done for another month. It never used to be like that but thats the way football games have gone now.
Saintric variation in how the AI scores isn't just about how they finish . . it's about how they build up the play as well which can be excellent. So you all want no low shots and now it has to be above waist height as well? I've noticed lately that the AI when in the box it is trying to lift the shot from the ground sometimes.
At this stage i'm enjoying the game too much to worry about the height that the ball goes in. The other guys talking about team spirit .. I've often played with 70 against a team with 90 and have still beaten them . . could be down to scripting going my way or tactics.
its not about the height of the ball, its about the AI variation in finishing.The height of the ball will just naturally follow with variation of shots.
It personal choice at the end of the day, in FIFA I'm still seeing new shots 6 months after release in PES i think I had seen everything after a week, its each to their own
- Staff
- #8,218
To be fair, though, that's just one aspect of the game. It could just as easily be argued that after playing FIFA three or four games, you've seen all the AI defending / attacking patterns that you'll ever see.
Both games have their faults. I still genuinely believe that the majority (myself included) choose the game that pisses them off the least, as opposed to the game that plays the best, because if you've been playing a game that's had the same faults for the past five years, just the novelty of not having to counteract (or ignore) those faults in the OTHER game is relief enough!
Two fair points by the last 2 posters. At the end of the day It's about what you enjoy the most. .I enjoy Pes and have nothing bad to say about Fifa cos I don't play it. Both games this year have their negatives and positives . . they're never going to be perfect . .I just take as much enjoyment as I can from Pes . . but I'm well aware of the faults and annoying stuff eg if you send a high long ball forward towards the corner flag behind the defense in Pes for some reason your forward who is a mile behind the two chasing defenders is allowed to reach the ball . .it's not a huge issue but it's there.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Just played PES on Ps4 demo. Man, it's like lightning compared to FIFA which I'm not sure is a great thing. I could argue I played with better sides, but the responsiveness of both Juventus and Munich feels just too much now. The flowing attacking football you can play is very good, but again, it just feels like it's constantly like that. I also scored a screamer with Thomas Muller 30 yards which I did go 'wow', but that was in like the 2nd game I played. I also get the feeling when I get that chance that I'm going to soore, which again I'm not sure is great.
So three games on Superstar I've beaten Juventus twice as Munich and drawn to them. On superstar. I hope the retail is slower, and I hope it's just not as easy to string moves together all the time. I do appreciate that I'm playing with Munich and perhaps say, Liverpool will be different.
I can see why people think PES is fun this year, but it seems too fast and too end to end. The players seem too responsive in that almost anyone now is turning on a sixpence. Every shot I feel I'm going to score too.
PS I also started getting pissed off with Juventus just lumping it long for no reason. Whilst this does add variance in CPU attack, the CPU seem far more cheaper in giving possession away. In the three games I had over 60% possession and one game was 67-33. Which obviously ain't ideal.
This isn't PES bashing, it's just my thoughts on having played FIFA for so long and then going to PES. Perhaps if I did this the other way round my thoughts would be that FIFA is slow and clunky etc.
My feelings though is that although PES may be more 'fun', FIFA is the more realistic. In terms of pace of game, and player movements and responsiveness. I'm a little old school and a little more sadistic I guess in that I want t a little turgid thrown in as well as the glory.
Still don't know which one to get though. Really don't. Will give them both perhaps one more week
.
So three games on Superstar I've beaten Juventus twice as Munich and drawn to them. On superstar. I hope the retail is slower, and I hope it's just not as easy to string moves together all the time. I do appreciate that I'm playing with Munich and perhaps say, Liverpool will be different.
I can see why people think PES is fun this year, but it seems too fast and too end to end. The players seem too responsive in that almost anyone now is turning on a sixpence. Every shot I feel I'm going to score too.
PS I also started getting pissed off with Juventus just lumping it long for no reason. Whilst this does add variance in CPU attack, the CPU seem far more cheaper in giving possession away. In the three games I had over 60% possession and one game was 67-33. Which obviously ain't ideal.
This isn't PES bashing, it's just my thoughts on having played FIFA for so long and then going to PES. Perhaps if I did this the other way round my thoughts would be that FIFA is slow and clunky etc.
My feelings though is that although PES may be more 'fun', FIFA is the more realistic. In terms of pace of game, and player movements and responsiveness. I'm a little old school and a little more sadistic I guess in that I want t a little turgid thrown in as well as the glory.
Still don't know which one to get though. Really don't. Will give them both perhaps one more week
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