PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread

Ameppe said:
Biggest issue with Pes 2016 CPU defensive AI.

This has been recorded at Superstar Level, competition Euro Cup. I even scored with Chiellini and almost scored against Spain defence, on semifinal.

Look at the huge empty spaces in every team defence when i'm going through them, look at the nonsense movements of defenders and the too light pressure from these teams.

During final match number of fouls is 0 on both teams. This is with the latest patch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpyif6FfkBE
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good, just like my video, this is the tactics setup at their worst combined with AI issues
 
Anybody notice a slight difference in the game lately? It seems to have slowed down a bit and there's stuff happening that didn't happen before. For example all of a sudden the a.i and myself are scoring goals with shots outside the box from a clearance from corners. . .penos given against me for the keeper crashing into a forward when the ball is gone. It doesn't feel as muddled in midfield and a.i aren't rushing forward with the ball. I know everybody will say that I'm talking bollocks but another guy mentioned it on Pesfan.

A sly tweak of gameplay from Konami?
 
There has been some subtle changes for sure i have played through 2 long master league on superstar either side of the last patch and its a bit more difficult now with some improvement in variation with AI but still we are talking 10-20% of the way there in terms of fixes

Adam said on twitter he cant promise gameplay fixes via patches so i guess this is this years gameplay until 2017 edition at least he was honest
 
saintric said:
There has been some subtle changes for sure i have played through 2 long master league on superstar either side of the last patch and its a bit more difficult now with some improvement in variation with AI but still we are talking 10-20% of the way there in terms of fixes

Adam said on twitter he cant promise gameplay fixes via patches so i guess this is this years gameplay until 2017 edition at least he was honest
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Saintric I'm talking about a change in the last 2 days ... it feels a bit different.
 
Happy New Year to everyone!

Honestly, I'm back to PES 2015. After playing a few games vs. CPU with the same teams comparing both 2015 and 2016 gameplay, I think the former has a better balance between arcade and sim. More realistic tempo at 0 speed (no need to change this setting at all), better passing options (here 1-bar actually works), better feeling of inertia when dribbling (the difference between weaker players and superstars), a bit better CPU AI (difficulty, shooting variation), etc.

All these differences above make me enjoy playing vs CPU again, even knowing the lack of some animations and the fact player control is obviously more simple/less polished.

I suppose, like other people here, that I became tired of countless CPU shots to the low corner without any variation.

PES 2015 was designed to have a similar feeling to the best PS2 PES games. A sim-cade game. It has flaws, but at least I like what the designers attempted to.

However, PES 2016 is catering directly to the FUT/MyClub audience in mind. An arcade game. Its fast-paced, counter-attack-focused gameplay absolutely shows it. And I'm talking about offline. Never touched online and never will, but heard it's even worse there.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about PES 2017. I just hope Konami stops following this arcade path and goes back to the 2015 idea, while retaining the good things from 2016.
 
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NikoLiberty4 said:
Happy New Year to everyone!

Honestly, I'm back to PES 2015. After playing a few games vs. CPU with the same teams comparing both 2015 and 2016 gameplay, I think the former has a better balance between arcade and sim. More realistic tempo at 0 speed (no need to change this setting at all), better passing options (here 1-bar actually works), better feeling of inertia when dribbling (the difference between weaker players and superstars), a bit better CPU AI (difficulty, shooting variation), etc.

All these differences above make me enjoy playing vs CPU again, even knowing the lack of some animations and the fact player control is obviously more simple/less polished.

I suppose, like other people here, that I became tired of countless CPU shots to the low corner without any variation.

PES 2015 was designed to have a similar feeling to the best PS2 PES games. A sim-cade game. It has flaws, but at least I like what the designers attempted to.

However, PES 2016 is catering directly to the FUT/MyClub audience in mind. An arcade game. Its fast-paced, counter-attack-focused gameplay absolutely shows it. And I'm talking about offline. Never touched online and never will, but heard it's even worse there.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about PES 2017. I just hope Konami stops following this arcade path and goes back to the 2015 idea, while retaining the good things from 2016.
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+1

I'm finding PES 2015 to be a bit of a classic :)
 
NikoLiberty4 said:
Happy New Year to everyone!

Honestly, I'm back to PES 2015. After playing a few games vs. CPU with the same teams comparing both 2015 and 2016 gameplay, I think the former has a better balance between arcade and sim. More realistic tempo at 0 speed (no need to change this setting at all), better passing options (here 1-bar actually works), better feeling of inertia when dribbling (the difference between weaker players and superstars), a bit better CPU AI (difficulty, shooting variation), etc.

All these differences above make me enjoy playing vs CPU again, even knowing the lack of some animations and the fact player control is obviously more simple/less polished.

I suppose, like other people here, that I became tired of countless CPU shots to the low corner without any variation.

PES 2015 was designed to have a similar feeling to the best PS2 PES games. A sim-cade game. It has flaws, but at least I like what the designers attempted to.

However, PES 2016 is catering directly to the FUT/MyClub audience in mind. An arcade game. Its fast-paced, counter-attack-focused gameplay absolutely shows it. And I'm talking about offline. Never touched online and never will, but heard it's even worse there.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about PES 2017. I just hope Konami stops following this arcade path and goes back to the 2015 idea, while retaining the good things from 2016.
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I am one of those who thinks that PES 2015 was a classic. I still play it from time to time. You're absolutely right about the fact that the pace if very balanced. If they were to just keep the game play of pes 2015 with the polished visuals and kit editing capability in PES 2016 I would be very happy. That's not to say that I don't like this year's version.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
Asim cracked the shits at me when I spoke to him about this a few days ago, saying we are out looking for flaws and bring negativity to those that enjoy, very disappointed to hear that from him.
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I suggest not giving Asim any importance and going straight to proper official channels like officialpes or Adam.
 
Stick to @officialpes and the facebook account - adam is not directly involved in the game delvelopment per se and your feedback regarding gameplay is better directed to them.

I must admit Asim and Adam have the same flaw in how they deal with criticism but with the level of abuse they get I doubt I would react any different.

Still not over myclub (its addictive as hell) Full 3 squads of world class players but still enjoying it - you get lag cheaters and all sorts of nasties but its so worth it when you meet the right opponent

BTW happy new year everyone
 
zeemeister said:
Stick to @officialpes and the facebook account - adam is not directly involved in the game delvelopment per se and your feedback regarding gameplay is better directed to them.

I must admit Asim and Adam have the same flaw in how they deal with criticism but with the level of abuse they get I doubt I would react any different.

Still not over myclub (its addictive as hell) Full 3 squads of world class players but still enjoying it - you get lag cheaters and all sorts of nasties but its so worth it when you meet the right opponent

BTW happy new year everyone
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At least Adam is a Konami official. Asim is not. Like you said though, officialpes and facebook should be the ones to address.
 
I really liked 2015 and have been thinking about going beck to it. With 2016 i never know what i am going to get. The game at times feels fast and easy and then the next time, it feels sluggish and unresponsive and my players have poor control and get closed down

Just had a game this morning in my master league and changed the speed from 0 to 1 and dropped the game difficulty to regular from superstar and it felt better. How can the speed and difficulty vary so much
 
2015 suited the gameplay core a lot more than 2016 does. Thats why 2015 was a lot better than 2016.

Also sadly 1 Bar passing, really don't know why Konami decided to make it so automated for 2016 when it was literally perfect in 2015.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
I really liked 2015 and have been thinking about going beck to it. With 2016 i never know what i am going to get. The game at times feels fast and easy and then the next time, it feels sluggish and unresponsive and my players have poor control and get closed down

Just had a game this morning in my master league and changed the speed from 0 to 1 and dropped the game difficulty to regular from superstar and it felt better. How can the speed and difficulty vary so much
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Pes has always been like that. .if you start a League campaign you might start like shit and lose the first three games. . .restart a new league and you'll get three draws at the start. . .do it again and you could win the first three games . . the rule of thumb for me is if you start well you will become sluggish mid season but if you start sluggish it picks up and gives you the impression that you're improving. .it's just that scripting shit deciding which campaign you are going to have.
 
Likewise, looking at 2015 retrospectively, even though we lack the animations, physicality improvements and AI play style variation that we have in 2016, the gameplay is somehow more enjoyable because the newly introduced flaws in 2016 make the game far too frustrating. Weighing it up the game is pretty much the same but I can hack the flaws in 2015 much more than I can hack the lack of fouls, poor AI pressing/ball winning, and AI low shots we have in 2016. Combine that with the 1 bar passing change and the manic default game speed the online part of the game is unplayable for me too. Pretty ridiculous because I still think the game is good. Surely it would be so easy to fix these pretty obvious and schoolboy flaws
 
I think it's a all a bit more complicated than what we seem to think it is ...programming a realistic soccer game must be a nightmare, there's so much to take into consideration.

If you look back at recent editions we complain about certain aspects and when they're fixed we're happy for a week or two and then it's a case of " This latest patch has ruined it. . .the last patch was better, now I can't do what I was doing previously. . or did anyone notice the way the defense won't blah blah?" etc etc. I do it myself, I don't know what the answer is to all this. . one correction causes another problem.

I'm still enjoying it with all it's faults and it does throw up the odd fantastic match where the shackles seem to be off and both teams play open decent football.
 
Deco said:
I think it's a all a bit more complicated than what we seem to think it is ...programming a realistic soccer game must be a nightmare, there's so much to take into consideration.

If you look back at recent editions we complain about certain aspects and when they're fixed we're happy for a week or two and then it's a case of " This latest patch has ruined it. . .the last patch was better, now I can't do what I was doing previously. . or did anyone notice the way the defense won't blah blah?" etc etc. I do it myself, I don't know what the answer is to all this. . one correction causes another problem.

I'm still enjoying it with all it's faults and it does throw up the odd fantastic match where the shackles seem to be off and both teams play open decent football.
Click to expand...

My friend Charlie had a conversation with Adam Bhatti at E3 this past year in which they talked about A.I. and how complicated it is to program for a footy game today. Adam spoke about how during the PS2 days the game was practically fully assisted and had 8 directional movement. So there were limits to the amount of variables you had to program for. However, the engine did a great job of making the game look and feel more dynamic even though there were only so many variables for each situational outcome.

But now with "360" degree dribbling and the advancements in tech as well as the shift from assisted to more user controlled input--there are so many variables that could possibly happen its ridiculously hard to program for. Add that to the small team size, well small compared to EA, and you can really see PES is going to be a process.

Its like each year the team focuses on one or two elements to improve then its minor tweaks or no tweaks everywhere else. This year it was responsiveness and dribbling. Next year maybe its shooting/keepers, the following year maybe its defending. I get the sense because of the team size that is how the programming process is working but who knows.
 
B-Man said:
My friend Charlie had a conversation with Adam Bhatti at E3 this past year in which they talked about A.I. and how complicated it is to program for a footy game today. Adam spoke about how during the PS2 days the game was practically fully assisted and had 8 directional movement. So there were limits to the amount of variables you had to program for. However, the engine did a great job of making the game look and feel more dynamic even though there were only so many variables for each situational outcome.

But now with "360" degree dribbling and the advancements in tech as well as the shift from assisted to more user controlled input--there are so many variables that could possibly happen its ridiculously hard to program for. Add that to the small team size, well small compared to EA, and you can really see PES is going to be a process.

Its like each year the team focuses on one or two elements to improve then its minor tweaks or no tweaks everywhere else. This year it was responsiveness and dribbling. Next year maybe its shooting/keepers, the following year maybe its defending. I get the sense because of the team size that is how the programming process is working but who knows.
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Great post B-Man. . . that's exactly what I was trying to get across.. although not as well as you put it. It's hard to imagine all the variables they have to take into account. You have it spot on about the dribbling and responsiveness, that's what they went for this year. The last few years it was complaints about the speed of forwards and catch up by the defenders and bad goalies. .now it's low shots and gaps in the Cpu defense when marauding from the back with a defender. . which are definitely problems.

It has to be extremely difficult to balance the game to make it as realistic as possible, I think there's always going to be problems no matter what and the genuine Pes fans on here like myself and the rest of the guys aren't moaning for the sake of it.

I still think that this year is a great effort and I haven't stopped playing it.
 
Deco said:
Great post B-Man. . . that's exactly what I was trying to get across.. although not as well as you put it. It's hard to imagine all the variables they have to take into account. You have it spot on about the dribbling and responsiveness, that's what they went for this year. The last few years it was complaints about the speed of forwards and catch up by the defenders and bad goalies. .now it's low shots and gaps in the Cpu defense when marauding from the back with a defender. . which are definitely problems.

It has to be extremely difficult to balance the game to make it as realistic as possible, I think there's always going to be problems no matter what and the genuine Pes fans on here like myself and the rest of the guys aren't moaning for the sake of it.

I still think that this year is a great effort and I haven't stopped playing it.
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Hi Deco, I understand a bit what you are saying but last year the variety in AI shots and the keepers were fine so why make the changes this year? It only took us a few games to realise that something is wrong with the AI shooting in the same place. Surely someone must play test it as they go along and notice that the shooting is not as varied. Konami don't necessarily 'take one step forward and two steps back' it's more 'one step forward and one step back'. But they do tend to improve some things and ruin other things.

I know I keep harping on about it but I'm finding PES2015 fantastic. Again a few niggles but now I've changed most tactics to "Counter" the AI plays so varied.

I wanted to share these heroics by John Terry, I've never seen this in a football game before.

http://youtu.be/bzHzAtD5qKo
http://youtu.be/EewN-uuyF1U
http://youtu.be/UOccazpz4Po

I was Spurs of course. I thought it was so good, like a saddo, I had to show the replay to my wife and she said "it must have something to do with the...er...artificial intelligence" she knows more than me :P
 
geeeeee said:
Hi Deco, I understand a bit what you are saying but last year the variety in AI shots and the keepers were fine so why make the changes this year? It only took us a few games to realise that something is wrong with the AI shooting in the same place. Surely someone must play test it as they go along and notice that the shooting is not as varied. Konami don't necessarily 'take one step forward and two steps back' it's more 'one step forward and one step back'. But they do tend to improve some things and ruin other things.

I know I keep harping on about it but I'm finding PES2015 fantastic. Again a few niggles but now I've changed most tactics to "Counter" the AI plays so varied.

I wanted to share these heroics by John Terry, I've never seen this in a football game before.

http://youtu.be/bzHzAtD5qKo
http://youtu.be/EewN-uuyF1U
http://youtu.be/UOccazpz4Po

I was Spurs of course. I thought it was so good, like a saddo, I had to show the replay to my wife and she said "it must have something to do with the...er...artificial intelligence" she knows more than me :P
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Geeeeee Last years game was very basic the main problem was the huge gap in the middle of the defense. It was all about bypassing midfield and pass through the middle and shoot and score, boring shite, same fucking goals from the same spots in the box .. very bare bones basic game not for me. If you're happy with it that's great. . . enjoy it. This years game is more advanced which causes more gameplay problems in my opinion.

What the fuck is Terry doing?. . .collapsing after a load of gargle?

Ah no seriously Geeeee I'm glad you found a game you enjoy. . btw Spurs are the dark horses in the Premier now. It's up for grabs. G'nite bud!
 
B-Man said:
My friend Charlie had a conversation with Adam Bhatti at E3 this past year in which they talked about A.I. and how complicated it is to program for a footy game today. Adam spoke about how during the PS2 days the game was practically fully assisted and had 8 directional movement. So there were limits to the amount of variables you had to program for. However, the engine did a great job of making the game look and feel more dynamic even though there were only so many variables for each situational outcome.

But now with "360" degree dribbling and the advancements in tech as well as the shift from assisted to more user controlled input--there are so many variables that could possibly happen its ridiculously hard to program for. Add that to the small team size, well small compared to EA, and you can really see PES is going to be a process.

Its like each year the team focuses on one or two elements to improve then its minor tweaks or no tweaks everywhere else. This year it was responsiveness and dribbling. Next year maybe its shooting/keepers, the following year maybe its defending. I get the sense because of the team size that is how the programming process is working but who knows.
Click to expand...

I agree that with the company's small team on PES it would take time for the game to fully develop, but If that is the excuse Adam made for this year's game I can't take it.

We all can see how 2015 is so much better as a football game than 2016. If Adam says that this year is about responsiveness and dribbling, than the following year's is about fixing everything else then it doesn't make sense to me. Because in 2015 the shooting and the referees are much better than 2016, why did they have to make it worse? they took a step back. Even in PES 2014, where many people say it's the shitest PES game, has better AI.

The game this year just feels so scripted, not only the passing and shooting, but the movement of the players feels heavy and unresponsive for me.

What I see is that Konami is trying to get new customers, even trying to get the fifa crowd to get into PES, that's why they gave early demo's and stuff to fifa youtubers, and that is why pes is getting more like old fifa games.

I still can enjoy PES 2016 with editing and stuff, especially if I play with friends. But it's more of making the best of you got, when I know that Konami can do alot better than this.

For now the best football game this year is no doubt FIFA 16, but I understand many PES fans can't get into FIFA gameplay, so the best option IMO is play PES 2013 or 2015.

*I still have hopes though for PES 2016. I hope someone can finish a global stats editor soon (I'm on PC). Global stats editing combined with yair's gameplay patch might just fix the game
 
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geeeeee said:
Hi Deco, I understand a bit what you are saying but last year the variety in AI shots and the keepers were fine so why make the changes this year? It only took us a few games to realise that something is wrong with the AI shooting in the same place. Surely someone must play test it as they go along and notice that the shooting is not as varied. Konami don't necessarily 'take one step forward and two steps back' it's more 'one step forward and one step back'. But they do tend to improve some things and ruin other things.

I know I keep harping on about it but I'm finding PES2015 fantastic. Again a few niggles but now I've changed most tactics to "Counter" the AI plays so varied.

I wanted to share these heroics by John Terry, I've never seen this in a football game before.

http://youtu.be/bzHzAtD5qKo
http://youtu.be/EewN-uuyF1U
http://youtu.be/UOccazpz4Po

I was Spurs of course. I thought it was so good, like a saddo, I had to show the replay to my wife and she said "it must have something to do with the...er...artificial intelligence" she knows more than me :P
Click to expand...

That dive was first introduced in, you guessed it...


PES 2013!
 
geeeeee said:
Hi Deco, I understand a bit what you are saying but last year the variety in AI shots and the keepers were fine so why make the changes this year? It only took us a few games to realise that something is wrong with the AI shooting in the same place. Surely someone must play test it as they go along and notice that the shooting is not as varied. Konami don't necessarily 'take one step forward and two steps back' it's more 'one step forward and one step back'. But they do tend to improve some things and ruin other things.

I know I keep harping on about it but I'm finding PES2015 fantastic. Again a few niggles but now I've changed most tactics to "Counter" the AI plays so varied.

I wanted to share these heroics by John Terry, I've never seen this in a football game before.

http://youtu.be/bzHzAtD5qKo
http://youtu.be/EewN-uuyF1U
http://youtu.be/UOccazpz4Po

I was Spurs of course. I thought it was so good, like a saddo, I had to show the replay to my wife and she said "it must have something to do with the...er...artificial intelligence" she knows more than me :P
Click to expand...

Well,its just terry's player id which was introduced in 2013.I believe you can see that in pes2014 and 2016 too,but it maybe just so ramdom that you need to play many games to see it.
 
B-Man said:
My friend Charlie had a conversation with Adam Bhatti at E3 this past year in which they talked about A.I. and how complicated it is to program for a footy game today. Adam spoke about how during the PS2 days the game was practically fully assisted and had 8 directional movement. So there were limits to the amount of variables you had to program for. However, the engine did a great job of making the game look and feel more dynamic even though there were only so many variables for each situational outcome.

But now with "360" degree dribbling and the advancements in tech as well as the shift from assisted to more user controlled input--there are so many variables that could possibly happen its ridiculously hard to program for. Add that to the small team size, well small compared to EA, and you can really see PES is going to be a process.

Its like each year the team focuses on one or two elements to improve then its minor tweaks or no tweaks everywhere else. This year it was responsiveness and dribbling. Next year maybe its shooting/keepers, the following year maybe its defending. I get the sense because of the team size that is how the programming process is working but who knows.
Click to expand...


If they would focus every year to improve a part of the gameplay but balancing it, it would eventually come together as a great gameplay. But lately it doesn't seem so.

Yeah, this year they improved responsiveness, but worsened player individuality, pace of the game, etc.

Besides, i can bet next year if they will fix one thing they will break another. They seems to be unable to give a proper balance between improvements, fixes and new introduced mechanics. This way the game never evolves.

If it's due to the lack of development staff i don't know, but i think Konami is happy with the way the game is every year, even if incomplete and unbalanced.
 
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Ameppe said:
If they would focus every year to improve a part of the gameplay but balancing it, it would eventually come together as a great gameplay. But lately it doesn't seem so.

Yeah, this year they improved responsiveness, but worsened player individuality, pace of the game, etc.

Besides, i can bet next year if they will fix one thing they will break another. They seems to be unable to give a proper balance between improvements, fixes and new introduced mechanics. This way the game never evolves.

If it's due to the lack of development staff i don't know, but i think Konami is happy with the way the game is every year, even if incomplete and unbalanced.
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In my opinion since the new engine was introduced its never been right..they should of done what project cars did and sell it for £15 with regular updates then when it's complete knock that off the retail ..not sure how possible that is on the consoles though ..at the end of the day the game was released incomplete with glaring issues that I don't believe konami didn't pick up on prior to release..
 
Elja said:
I agree that with the company's small team on PES it would take time for the game to fully develop, but If that is the excuse Adam made for this year's game I can't take it.

We all can see how 2015 is so much better as a football game than 2016. If Adam says that this year is about responsiveness and dribbling, than the following year's is about fixing everything else then it doesn't make sense to me. Because in 2015 the shooting and the referees are much better than 2016, why did they have to make it worse? they took a step back. Even in PES 2014, where many people say it's the shitest PES game, has better AI.

The game this year just feels so scripted, not only the passing and shooting, but the movement of the players feels heavy and unresponsive for me.

What I see is that Konami is trying to get new customers, even trying to get the fifa crowd to get into PES, that's why they gave early demo's and stuff to fifa youtubers, and that is why pes is getting more like old fifa games.

I still can enjoy PES 2016 with editing and stuff, especially if I play with friends. But it's more of making the best of you got, when I know that Konami can do alot better than this.

For now the best football game this year is no doubt FIFA 16, but I understand many PES fans can't get into FIFA gameplay, so the best option IMO is play PES 2013 or 2015.

*I still have hopes though for PES 2016. I hope someone can finish a global stats editor soon (I'm on PC). Global stats editing combined with yair's gameplay patch might just fix the game
Click to expand...

I feel your pain with PES 2016. But Adam wasn't making any excuses I think they were clearly talking footy gaming development and the challenges it presents. PES 2016 globally appears to be very successful so I don't believe Konami even have any excuses or feel the need to apologize to any fans for that matter when the cash is flowing. Business-wise PES 2016 was and is a clear success.

IMO though, when Seabass left, PES as we "knew" it died too. At the time we thought nothing of it,time for new blood right? But looking back hindsight is always 20/20, this PES in terms of the details and little nuances, which essentially was the essence of PES in the PS2 days, no longer are emphasized or even exist in the game for me. So PES 2016 isn't even "PES" its a an entirely new regime in itself. Wish they changed the name of the game cuz its not PES to me! :(
 
Does anyone know what's going on when my keeper decides to have a run way up the pitch? I have conceded few because of this, it mostly happens when I bring out the keeper to clear the ball and he seems to think it's a good idea to just keep running after that, leaving the goal open.
 
Isslander said:
Does anyone know what's going on when my keeper decides to have a run way up the pitch? I have conceded few because of this, it mostly happens when I bring out the keeper to clear the ball and he seems to think it's a good idea to just keep running after that, leaving the goal open.
Click to expand...

im wondering the same thing :)
 
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