PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

I have now started the same match approx. 40 times. Italian cup semi, lost first leg away 1-0. Full manual, superstar. My team 4 stars, opponent 3.5.

In the first try I was up 3-0 by half time. Probably my best half in PES so far. I then changed to a defensive formation, and the CPU scored twice in a minute. They would have proceeded by the away goal rule. Restart.

So I decided to replay the match until I would proceed to the next round. It has been restart after another for two days. Either they score first (restart, unlikely that I score 3 times now that they have the momentum). Or then they score at least once, meaning that I'd have to score 3. For example, in the last try I was up 2-0, they scored in 50th minute, and I was unable to score once more. Playing full manual, I sometimes miss quite a few chances. Let's see if I can crack this before PES 2016 is out.

But this isn't very interesting by itself, is it. What makes it interesting is how very different the matches have been. It's always the same squads, with the players always in the same condition (arrows). Sometimes I absolutely dominate the match. Sometimes the CPU clearly has the upper hand. So this has led me to wonder: which events during a match affect the momentum?

I think goals play a role in momentum. But do shots also? I feels that whichever team gets the first few shots has an upper hand. Anybody agree?
 
i tried full manual on superstar but thought it was a little unbalanced that the cpu would pass so well and so accuratley and i would have to get everything right so i use 1bar which works well against superstar, i refuse to use anything above that unless its fun against a mate

I was fine on 2013 full manual top player/superstar but i find it more balanced to use professional with that.

i think full manual is always best against another human.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
this game doesnt have keepers
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Keepers are okay, but could be much better. Main reason why they are just okay? Their explosive power stat is way too low. The explosive power stat governs how quickly your player will perform an animation. Give a player that has decent (80+) dribbling 99 explosive power and try dribbling with them without the sprint button held down. They become vastly more agile. Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with their with their speed or acceleration. It`s because they take fewer animation frames to do everything.

In Pes 2015 the animation frames to do everything which essentially makes explosive power the most important stat because it governs all aspects of your player's play on the pitch. When defending, if the opponent makes a move, you can react to them easier because your defender takes fewer animation frames per turn. It also effect goalkeepers, allowing them to make saves in fewer animation frames, increasing their reaction time to shots.
 
am I the only one thats pissed off that they keep adding all these new players to teams and doing transfers and its all only for myclub, my master league teams dont update :( unless I am missing something?

ie. Bellerin isnt at Arsenal for me when I start a master league.
 
creimer said:
+1
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I hate to do that, but +2.

That is completely different from my experience with the game. Played hundreds of games online and i can safely say keepers are very reliable.

The silly mistakes from past years are no more
 
Review said:
Keepers are okay, but could be much better. Main reason why they are just okay? Their explosive power stat is way too low. The explosive power stat governs how quickly your player will perform an animation. Give a player that has decent (80+) dribbling 99 explosive power and try dribbling with them without the sprint button held down. They become vastly more agile. Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with their with their speed or acceleration. It`s because they take fewer animation frames to do everything.

In Pes 2015 the animation frames to do everything which essentially makes explosive power the most important stat because it governs all aspects of your player's play on the pitch. When defending, if the opponent makes a move, you can react to them easier because your defender takes fewer animation frames per turn. It also effect goalkeepers, allowing them to make saves in fewer animation frames, increasing their reaction time to shots.
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i tried to increase that too, still no chance if you shoot with R2 from 20-25 or closer even if the keeper has all the abilities on 99
i just want to love this game so much but i cant
 
Guys,

How do you fight for a better heading position?

We desperately need a header tutorial. I have gotten better, but I don't think I know all the tricks yet.
 
James Beaver said:
Guys,

How do you fight for a better heading position?

We desperately need a header tutorial. I have gotten better, but I don't think I know all the tricks yet.
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You can't. The players feet just stick to floor.

And only one player can go up for a header, so annoying.

Is it just me, or does the ball feel like a rock in PES 2015? Played this over weekend - won a local tournie we had going playing as the mighty Gooners! But didnt enjoy it after getting used to FIFA now. I DO love the pace of PES though, its lovely.
 
Fray Bentos said:
You can't. The players feet just stick to floor.

And only one player can go up for a header, so annoying.

Is it just me, or does the ball feel like a rock in PES 2015? Played this over weekend - won a local tournie we had going playing as the mighty Gooners! But didnt enjoy it after getting used to FIFA now. I DO love the pace of PES though, its lovely.
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I'm actually quite surprised people don't make a bigger deal out of heading, I've definitely seen people here criticise Fifa for it in the past.

My issue with heading is that it feels too obvious who's going to win the header. Positioning hardly feels important as what happens is that the best header(er) of the ball simply out-jumps the other. The other person involved doesn't seem to try, which is completely the opposite of how the old PES engine worked.
 
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James Beaver said:
Guys,

How do you fight for a better heading position?

We desperately need a header tutorial. I have gotten better, but I don't think I know all the tricks yet.
Click to expand...

Heading in both games is a bit gimped. That being said you do win most headers in PES 2015, especially when using players with good stats. I also use super-cancel. It's tricky but can be effective. Shouldn't have to use super-cancel anymore though in this day and age. Would much prefer to be able to jostle and move with the sticks.
 
I'm surprised on Twitter people get all excited for new balls coming when the refs, fouls and op manual shooting need urgent attention
 
Something i've been thinking about for the last few days.

I went back to 2013 again because it does all the things well that 2015 struggles with, quite literally, things like fouls, dribbling, crossing, responsiveness off the ball, cpu with 'human' like passing and heavy variety of goals is the very definition of the game.

I found that i still like PES 2013 better than 2015, i like both but 2013 is still better, but i feel excited!

With PES 2015, the game is no or really perfect at all, it's basic but the baisc things it does well, not other game comes close, but it still lacks depth in the movement areas which is where literally all the flaws come from.

- In 2013, when you dribble, you can change pace while dribbling which you just can't in 2015, you go straight from jog to full sprint in 2015. Players touches on the ball at slow when sprinting was correct, players did proper cruyff turns when needed, players take too many touches in 2015 when dribbling.

- There is a fluid transition between sprinting running and jogging off the ball in 2013 on and off the ball, this created tall the variables with passing and shooting which is why the game was know for unique goals, body position, balance and momentum carrying the ball massively affected all shots and passes.

- The responsiveness is at golden level which creates many 50/50 tackles and fouls vary realistically depending on the teams tactics, you get realistic body check, clipping, mistimed tackles from you and the AI.

- Formations aren't so rigid, PES 2015 is the absolute king at creating strategy ideologies, although individuality is secondary, pes 2013 is the opposite, teams individuals define the team and how they pass and what type of passes they do, it's support range which defines the team style

- It's also a lot harder than most football games, defending takes a lot discipline, really knowing your players and who to put where and where to position your team. Lots of people hate the dribbling side to football, many see it as 'arcadey' there is this avok guy who hated how the AI dribbled on 2013, i loved it, no other game does it better, its takes skill and it's difficult learning curve to stop them.

Thing is despite this, i'm excited, i realized with PES 2015, they have 'completed' their primary development and i now know why they haven't made any substation patches which is because if you look at 2015, there's really not a lot they can do to change the gameplay which doesn't require another game and going back to 2013 and reintroducing the movement from those games on the new engine. Only things which they can do is sort out the rainbow flick exploit and balance out the 'short pass' so teams actually CROSS when the team has short pass set on. I can't see a patch doing much to this game.

Again i still really like PES 2015 because this quite literally is FIFA 08 Konami style. this was meant to be a basic game and a template to build on. I wouldn't com in also and say, well they shudda, wudda cudda done this years ago and what not because this is what we have, there's been too many disappointments in life you will spend your entire life talking about shit that didn't happen. it takes time to make games properly and from some of the responses i see, people can just about handle the games we have now, and when you look into how the game mechanics work theoretically you can understand why the game is why it is.

I'm excited that, before i was a little concerned that PES 2015 being good, konami would keep the game in the same style but again after 2 and a half months with this game i see there is nothing more they can do without needing a new title and going back to their previous engine developments and re-implementing it.
 
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hitmanuk said:
I'm surprised on Twitter people get all excited for new balls coming when the refs, fouls and op manual shooting need urgent attention
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That's because Adam Bhatti is the pes messiah! He can do no wrong to some. He blocked me last year for being negative about some things. That's just the way he works. Awful childish man. The way he treats some people on twitter is shocking and most of the time they go crawling to him asking for forgiveness! Really weird
 
klashman69 said:
Something i've been thinking about for the last few days.

I went back to 2013 again because it does all the things well that 2015 struggles with, quite literally, things like fouls, dribbling, crossing, responsiveness off the ball, cpu with 'human' like passing and heavy variety of goals is the very definition of the game.

I found that i still like PES 2013 better than 2015, i like both but 2013 is still better, but i feel excited!

With PES 2015, the game is no or really perfect at all, it's basic but the baisc things it does well, not other game comes close, but it still lacks depth in the movement areas which is where literally all the flaws come from.

- In 2013, when you dribble, you can change pace while dribbling which you just can't in 2015, you go straight from jog to full sprint in 2015.

- There is a fluid transition between sprinting running and jogging off the ball in 2013 on and off the ball, this created tall the variables with passing and shooting which is why the game was know for unique goals, body position, balance and momentum carrying the ball massively affected all shots and passes.

- The responsiveness is at golden level which creates many 50/50 tackles and fouls vary realistically depending on the teams tactics, you get realistic body check, clipping, mistimed tackles from you and the AI.

- Formations aren't so rigid, PES 2015 is the absolute king at creating startegy ideologies, although individuality is secondary, pes 2013 is the opposite, teams individuals define the team and how they pass and what type of passes they do, it's support range which defines the team style

- It's also a lot harder than most football games, defending takes a lot discipline, really knowing your players and who to put where and where to position your team. Lots of people hate the dribbling side to football, many see it as 'arcadey' theres this avok guy who hated how the Ai dribbled on 2013, i loved it, no other game does it better, its takes skill and it's difficult learning curve to stop them.

Thing is despite this, i'm excited, i realized with PES 2015, they have 'completed' their primary development and i now know why they haven't made any substation patches which is because if you look at 2015, there's really not a lot they can do to change the gameplay which doesn't require another game and going back to 2013 and reintroducing the movement from those games on the new engine. Only things which they can do is sort out the rainbow flick exploit and balance out the 'short pass' so teams actually CROSS when the team has short pass set on.

Again i still really like PES 2015 because this quite literally is FIFA 08 Konami style. this was meant to be a basic game and a template to build on. I wouldn't com in also and say, well they shudda, wudda cudda done this years ago and what not because this isswhat we have, it takes time to amke games properly and when you look into how the game mechanics work theoretically you can understand why the game is why t is.
Click to expand...


This bit interests me because personally I thought EA was going to kill Konami with the introduction of FIFA 08 and FIFA 09. I thought they were great. Then came FIFA 10 and we have been ice skating in a glossy world ever since
 
Rama78 said:
[/B]

This bit interests me because personally I thought EA was going to kill Konami with the introduction of FIFA 08 and FIFA 09. I thought they were great. Then came FIFA 10 and we have been ice skating in a glossy world ever since
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FIFA 09 is where it all went wrong, not massively it was good, just a disappointment since they took too much from 08 out, 10 like you said the game just been scripted ice hockey. 11-0 vs the cpu on legendary and that was the last time i ever purchase a FIFA game.

PES with 2015 has now had its 'FIFA 08' its in the same position now as ea where in 2008, 2016 is huge for Konami it's that bridge, like with FIFA 08 they have their base sorted, it's how they develop the movement and dribbling mechanics which is the millon dollar question!

The good thing is they have the opposite problem EA had which was EA where in uncharted territory with gameplay, they didn't really know how to build on the game in a realistic sense since at the time FIFA 08 was their best work and what proceeded that was to be honest, pretty horrid! Also they changed the team after 08 and brought 'Rutter' in :CURSE:

Konami know what they need to do, which is the exciting thing, they have done it and proved it already! I sure this is their vision i just hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater with 2013, all the issues people hated from 2013 such as the old engine animation warping, wooden animations, lack of physicality engine, stumbling animation, i mean to you can see that PES 2015 has worked on and now has a engine which means no more animation problems.
 
klashman69 said:
Something i've been thinking about for the last few days.

I went back to 2013 again because it does all the things well that 2015 struggles with, quite literally, things like fouls, dribbling, crossing, responsiveness off the ball, cpu with 'human' like passing and heavy variety of goals is the very definition of the game.

I found that i still like PES 2013 better than 2015, i like both but 2013 is still better, but i feel excited!

With PES 2015, the game is no or really perfect at all, it's basic but the baisc things it does well, not other game comes close, but it still lacks depth in the movement areas which is where literally all the flaws come from.

- In 2013, when you dribble, you can change pace while dribbling which you just can't in 2015, you go straight from jog to full sprint in 2015. Players touches on the ball at slow when sprinting was correct, players did proper cruyff turns when needed, players take too many touches in 2015 when dribbling.

- There is a fluid transition between sprinting running and jogging off the ball in 2013 on and off the ball, this created tall the variables with passing and shooting which is why the game was know for unique goals, body position, balance and momentum carrying the ball massively affected all shots and passes.

- The responsiveness is at golden level which creates many 50/50 tackles and fouls vary realistically depending on the teams tactics, you get realistic body check, clipping, mistimed tackles from you and the AI.

- Formations aren't so rigid, PES 2015 is the absolute king at creating strategy ideologies, although individuality is secondary, pes 2013 is the opposite, teams individuals define the team and how they pass and what type of passes they do, it's support range which defines the team style

- It's also a lot harder than most football games, defending takes a lot discipline, really knowing your players and who to put where and where to position your team. Lots of people hate the dribbling side to football, many see it as 'arcadey' there is this avok guy who hated how the AI dribbled on 2013, i loved it, no other game does it better, its takes skill and it's difficult learning curve to stop them.

Thing is despite this, i'm excited, i realized with PES 2015, they have 'completed' their primary development and i now know why they haven't made any substation patches which is because if you look at 2015, there's really not a lot they can do to change the gameplay which doesn't require another game and going back to 2013 and reintroducing the movement from those games on the new engine. Only things which they can do is sort out the rainbow flick exploit and balance out the 'short pass' so teams actually CROSS when the team has short pass set on. I can't see a patch doing much to this game.

Again i still really like PES 2015 because this quite literally is FIFA 08 Konami style. this was meant to be a basic game and a template to build on. I wouldn't com in also and say, well they shudda, wudda cudda done this years ago and what not because this is what we have, there's been too many disappointments in life you will spend your entire life talking about shit that didn't happen. it takes time to make games properly and from some of the responses i see, people can just about handle the games we have now, and when you look into how the game mechanics work theoretically you can understand why the game is why it is.

I'm excited that, before i was a little concerned that PES 2015 being good, konami would keep the game in the same style but again after 2 and a half months with this game i see there is nothing more they can do without needing a new title and going back to their previous engine developments and re-implementing it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completaly about 2013, IMO it's a much better game than 2015 and the best football game ever made. However i don't share your optimism about 2016 go towards the same direction of 2013. For me the change of the direction was not only because of a new engine, it was clearly to make the game plays like old days again, something tha, IMO, was a retrocess in the series and create the last 2 games too much simplistic and with a poor gameplay compared to 2013.
 
how come when pes 2013 cpu ai did not pass around.. and the way cpu ai try to get past defender like lightning.. alao not really variation in their shooting direction too, corner gate.
 
2013 was not better than 15 but the best pes since pes6.

Pes 15 is better as it has more varied gameplay and modern tech.

When i played 13 after 3-5 months the games became so similar looking and always the same 3 or 4 goals.

I think pes15 is far more dynamic in gameplay and through balls not as easy etc...though maybe the dribbling and indiiduliasm slightly better in 13 but trick moves better in 15
 
Thats why i played on manual or 1bar with 2013, the more manual the passing the more variation the game, it didn't just affect you, it affected the cpu also, and their first touch, then there was the time limit factor where the game was progressively more realistic depending on what time limit you set.

Playing on 10 was completely different game to 30 minutes, this was a feature implemented heavily in PES 2011 and carried over to 2013.

Like i said the best thing about the game was the unlimited variety of goals:
YouTube - This was PES 2013

Also my point regarding the movement mechnics, look at some of the dribbling goals at 2:42 this was scored by changing pace and dropping the shoulder just tapping R1 with a burst, which can't be done in 2015. The Carzola goal at 7:44, the Greizmann run at 8:51 and the best goal i scored on that game at 9:08 That shows how the player turns and doesn't take too many unnecessary touches, it was using L2 close control dribbling

Honome said:
I agree with you completaly about 2013, IMO it's a much better game than 2015 and the best football game ever made. However i don't share your optimism about 2016 go towards the same direction of 2013. For me the change of the direction was not only because of a new engine, it was clearly to make the game plays like old days again, something tha, IMO, was a retrocess in the series and create the last 2 games too much simplistic and with a poor gameplay compared to 2013.
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I know your concern, it was my concern also, but this is exactly my point.

The key reason they went back to PES6/PES retro style gameplay because when you look at 2014, it had no dribbling mechanic whatsoever, there was no movement in that game, players where like ships. The focus this year was to use what they had in PES 2014 and just made a good game out of what was done.

PES 2014 had too many issues to list and those needed to be sorted out, the mess 2014 was in happened because they tried to be too ambitious and recreate 2013 with all those new engine features, it was a lot harder to do than they thought within just a year! The best way forward was to go back to something more basic like the Older PES games than try to recreate PES 2013.

What is good about the criticism shown here is that Konami can look at their game and see that clearly there is nothing else they can do to make the game more retro or remain in the 'PES retro style', there is little thy can do even to patch this game to make it better.

The ONLY way forward is to go back and re-implement the movement mechanics for PES 2013 and to try and get 2016 to play like 2013 with all the new features from the new engine.
 
Do you really think that they are going to change anything for Pes 2016? After all the great awards that they were given? I don't think so. . . I'm sure they can't believe their luck.. ...make a cheap basic bare bones game and everybody thinks it's great!

Pes 2013 was a great game but I think Pes 2014 took it to a new level but tried to run before it could walk. But to scrap that game was a bad decision. . .after the patches it's a great game, my favourite Pes ever. They should have built this years version on the last one but they listened to the Pes 5/6 gang and went backwards.

If it's selling well and people enjoy it they'll keep doing it, they're not going to change the formula.
 
I hope you´re right, Klashman, and we can see the future of the series trying to reach the same level of freedom and unpredictability that we see in 2013.

For me it seems that Konami are working in 3 years cycle since they went from PS2 to PS3. It´s clear that PES 2008, 2009 and 2010 were dissidents from the old PS2 engine where they struggled to recreate a proper 360 movement. They finally achieve the 360 movement in the next 3 games when the last of them, 2013, embracing perfectly all the freedom that we never had in any PES from old times. The problem with the game was really like you said, the engine could not provide all the animations that was necessary to make the game beautiful. Also the learning curve was too high and many people had problems with that, specially defending.

Than they changed everything for 2014 in the new engine, and the game was indeed a mess. It looked beautiful but the gameplay level that they had reached in the last 3 versions was all gone, just like that. You are right saying that they went back to basics because it was much easier to implement it on the new engine and i believe that we will have this same simplistic until the end of the 3 years cycle. 2015 was already a 2014 with most of problems fixed and i don´t have any reason to not believe that 2016 will follow the same path.

I think that we will only see the next big step forward in the series in the first game of the next 3 years cycle. So if your optimism is right we may begin to see a glimpse of all the 2013 virtues in the 2015 engine only in PES 2017 and following the same logical the peak level of the serios will be in PES 2019... I just hope the series survive until that day... :P
 
Honome said:
I hope you´re right, Klashman, and we can see the future of the series trying to reach the same level of freedom and unpredictability that we see in 2013.

For me it seems that Konami are working in 3 years cycle since they went from PS2 to PS3. It´s clear that PES 2008, 2009 and 2010 were dissidents from the old PS2 engine where they struggled to recreate a proper 360 movement. They finally achieve the 360 movement in the next 3 games when the last of them, 2013, embracing perfectly all the freedom that we never had in any PES from old times. The problem with the game was really like you said, the engine could not provide all the animations that was necessary to make the game beautiful. Also the learning curve was too high and many people had problems with that, specially defending.

Than they changed everything for 2014 in the new engine, and the game was indeed a mess. It looked beautiful but the gameplay level that they had reached in the last 3 versions was all gone, just like that. You are right saying that they went back to basics because it was much easier to implement it on the new engine and i believe that we will have this same simplistic until the end of the 3 years cycle. 2015 was already a 2014 with most of problems fixed and i don´t have any reason to not believe that 2016 will follow the same path.

I think that we will only see the next big step forward in the series in the first game of the next 3 years cycle. So if your optimism is right we may begin to see a glimpse of all the 2013 virtues in the 2015 engine only in PES 2017 and following the same logical the peak level of the serios will be in PES 2019... I just hope the series survive until that day... :P
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Very well put. I see your point on the 3 years thing also, very good input there! Although if you look at the games in the 3 year cycle, PES 2008-2010 and PES 2011-2013, the last game of the cycle was always significantly better than the first and evolved the gameplay on in terms of responsiveness and dribbling compared to the first. I think if PES 2016 even just gets near what 2013 did for movement or does what 2011 did even would be massive progress.

Also like you said with the 3 year cycle, you would think for PES 2017 they would want to try evolve the game and try new things to start a new cycle and it would be best to get all the old work done in the 2011-2013 cycle all implemented and ready in the game. Theres no way they can improve on 2015 without doing that.

Animations, first touch mechanic, ball and player physics, passing, shooting, crossing, tactics and formations, goalkeepers, dribbling. If you look at every element of 2015 individually, there's nothing at all that they can do to evolve the elements without bringing back the movement mechanics from 2013. Essentially if they don't want to move away from this simplistic approach we will literally have the exact same carbon copy game next year, with slightly more varied crossing.

The things PES 2015 does so well, the first touch animations, the animations of the player movement transition and leg and foot planting, the physics of the shooting and passing physics so every pass and shot registers properly with appropriate animations, the tactical ideology of each team. None of this can improve at all without better, quicker more dynamic movement mechanics which where done in 2013

The game is in such a solid state now, even with the crossing issue, things like that can be amended by adding back in a 'slider' from 1-10 for Shot Pass to Long pass.

I 100% agree about the learning curve in 2013, it was a game before its time. So ironic since Football games have been very disappointing the last 8 years or so and the knock on effect is out ability to play them as a whole has been shunted for a long time.
 
Deco said:
Do you really think that they are going to change anything for Pes 2016? After all the great awards that they were given? I don't think so. . . I'm sure they can't believe their luck.. ...make a cheap basic bare bones game and everybody thinks it's great!

Pes 2013 was a great game but I think Pes 2014 took it to a new level but tried to run before it could walk. But to scrap that game was a bad decision. . .after the patches it's a great game, my favourite Pes ever. They should have built this years version on the last one but they listened to the Pes 5/6 gang and went backwards.

If it's selling well and people enjoy it they'll keep doing it, they're not going to change the formula.
Click to expand...

Like i said they have to, because the game can't be improved on otherwise, the basic gameplay we see in 2015 was about taking all the elements of 2014, stripping out certain bits and fixing other bits so it played well.

What would make sense will be to freeze development of the PS3/360 to what PES 2015 is and work on the PC/PS4/XBONE versions by advancing the game forward. So if people are unhappy with the more advanced gameplay just go back to previous gen.

I'm sure we will see things like right stick jostling and heart back in the game but the game has just learned how to walk, it needs to work on jogging now, then it can start running with advanced features like that.
 
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