PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

Fray Bentos said:
In your opinion - glad I made you laugh though!

In MY opinion, and many others - this game is shallow. Get ball into box, tap shoot, goal. Doesn't matter what player you have control of.

Anyway, I am just repeating myself. PES 2015 is a great step forward, but the game modes still suck badly and I can't see them making huge improvements to PES 2016. They will probably add a few player faces, a new mode BE A DOG or something equally strange and 2 extra stadiums.

And the PES fan boys will still lap it up.
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That Arsenal Fan in your avatar is a legend! :D
 
mfmaxpower said:
This drives me nuts. There are times when the best way to defend is just put the controller down, wait until the CPU finally decides to pass into your final third, and then start to defend.

Here's a great example. This is me against PSG in the Champions League on Superstar. PSG - down a goal - not only doesn't attempt a pass into my half for what seemed like an eternity, but they are able to retain possession for more than 10 minutes of gametime, from about the 13th minute to the 25th.

Forget formations, tactics, difficulty levels, etc., this shit just shouldn't be happening.

YouTube - PES CPU Possession
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Yet the very reason that happens is because PSG are set to Possession game, short pass, so if there is no short pass option available to go forward they pass backwards. Also their formation is unbalanced, with their attackers are set very high up the pitch. For example Cavani won't drop from the left wing to help receive the ball because he's set as a center forward left of Zlatan.

The core problem is when you set a team to 'short pass' there's a refusal at times for the AI to try a long ball, unless a player is correctly designated into a position in which his playing style has a 'pinpoint pass' on.

What driving me mad is the AI's stubborn refusal to cross, they refuse to cross as long as you set short pass on. not just they rarely cross but when they do it's only if a low ball across goal is available.

What needs to be changed is some commands to change the likelyhood of the CPU trying a long pass when team tactics is set to 'short pass' There needs to be some commands also like in the previous pes games for the CPU to look for a cross first when at the 18 yard byline rather than religiously follow the short pass tactic.

What I've discovered is this CPU pass like crazy is no really a bug at all, it's formations which are very unbalanced which is the problem. afew are ok, the majority are outrageously unbalanced.

The depth goes up massively when you start actually setting up teams properly.
 
James Beaver said:
Known issue. Practical solution: ease pressure and let them proceed to your half. They will then try to attack.

Theoretically... Passing accuracy is too high and first touch too perfect. That allows the CPU to play this way.

Not moaning, but is Konami going to release a gameplay patch? Even EA released two.
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I think Konami have been taking their time with a patch. Mainly because of all the success and awards they have won. No point doing what they did last year a rushing out patches to fix a game which is hugely broken. The game is clearly very good all round, i think its clear just a few tweaks are needed such as making team cross more on short pass tactical settings.

I think whats good is they can focusmore on next years game and mabye addinga few, maybe JUST A FEW, MAYBE, ONE OR TWO MORE?


....


STADIUMS!

ehhm


STADIUMS!!!!


and most importantly evolving the dribbling and movement mechanics to previous PES game levels like with 2013 which is missing in this game and where the 'rigid', flat footed nature of the game comes from.

I can't see PES 2015 changing much with a patch, it doesn't need to, it needs a few tweaks here and there, things also like some keeper animations, they take too long to get up etc.. This game isn't perfect, it's the base for great things to come.
 
Agree about the manual settings. finally migrated over to full manual and it opens up a new level of freedom, you see things that you just wouldn't see playing with assists.

I'd love a patch for this game mind you, just something to tide me over, fix the overly literal AI tactics, some improvement on the referees, anything! game needs a little refresher.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
Is anyone else sick of conceding penalties when a player doing a tackle connects with someone 5 minutes after the player has shot?
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thats happened to me once and cost me the game in master league, the shot had gone well wide before i connected with the player and it was in the 89th minute..it used to happen on FIFA too the lesson is dont be trigger happy
 
Happens to me a lot due to my tendency for 'unnecessary slide tackles' or when the cursor doesn't change fast enough to the keeper and I already pressed B so my keeper will dive to a direction. But when the CPU does this, nothing. :/

I hope they can fix or patch that collision system or whatever it's called. It's rage enducing when you've successfully tackled a player and for some reason my player falls to the ground with him or the AI gets up faster than my player.
 
klashman69 said:
Yet the very reason that happens is because PSG are set to Possession game, short pass, so if there is no short pass option available to go forward they pass backwards. Also their formation is unbalanced, with their attackers are set very high up the pitch. For example Cavani won't drop from the left wing to help receive the ball because he's set as a center forward left of Zlatan.

The core problem is when you set a team to 'short pass' there's a refusal at times for the AI to try a long ball, unless a player is correctly designated into a position in which his playing style has a 'pinpoint pass' on.
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No, the reason is because due to a few issues (e.g. CPU high passing/control abilities; overly cautious decision making; inability to properly apply pressure), when set to playing Possession the CPU is too effective at retaining possession.

A bandaid, workaround solution is changing the team tactics; the tactics themselves are not the core problem.

In real life, you're never going to see an evenly matched team retain possession for 10+ minutes, especially when they're losing, no matter the formation or tactics. As such, no matter the formation or tactics, this shouldn't be happening in the game.
 
mfmaxpower said:
No, the reason is because due to a few issues (e.g. CPU high passing/control abilities; overly cautious decision making; inability to properly apply pressure), when set to playing Possession the CPU is too effective at retaining possession.
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No, its 'short-pass', not 'possession game' which is why they play like that!

If you set the team to 'possession game' 'long-pass', they either play route one hoofball or play it around, hit a long ball to the wing then cross.

Counter attack, 'long-pass' is similar but more direct. There's many, many different variations to how the CPU can play, player individual stats also come in, and formations and how they are setup make a massive difference. teams like PSG have a very unbalanced formation which is why the keep ball thing was more extreme with them compared to others.

Also unless the team is set to have a defensive line where the formation encourages them to push forward they keep looking for safe options. Also settings such as 'support range' and 'Numbers in attack' makes a big effect, if you set many, what it does is instructs the CPU to try more risky passes and instructs the off the ball players to move into more dangerous attacking areas.

A bandaid, workaround solution is changing the team tactics; the tactics themselves are not the core problem.
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The core problem is when the team is set to short pass and possession game, the CPU is inbuilt to look for safe options first before proceeding forward, its fine, but with the unbalanced formations it becomes far too strict, it's too extreme. 'Possession game' is patient buildup, thing is when you do counter attack, short pass, at times depending on the team setup, they can keep the ball for long periods also, again this depends on if you sitting deep or playing a higher line.

The game has been reduced tactically from previous versions so the settings are more extreme in the CPU's playing styles. Theres about 12 different sliders, some with only two options, the reason why theres a few is because they make such a massive difference.

In real life, you're never going to see an evenly matched team retain possession for 10+ minutes, especially when they're losing, no matter the formation or tactics. As such, no matter the formation or tactics, this shouldn't be happening in the game.
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Which is the whole point Max, the tactics aren't setup like they are in real life on the game aren't they which is what i'm saying. Look at Bayern's default tactics, how fucked up a formation can you get? All the work being done in the tactics thread has more than just sorted this 'problem' by simply making the CPU teams naturally more aggressive in a balanced way, even just giving the teams more balanced formations is more than enough.

This is not FIFA where the CPU is all setup to play the same way and you can judge every team by just playing against one side. This is a game where the tactics create the gameplay experience.

The ingame sliders in FIFA have LESS effect than the tactical sliders in PES to sum it up (unless your trying to do mad things such as put shooting power on 100, etc..)!
 
klashman69 said:
I think Konami have been taking their time with a patch. Mainly because of all the success and awards they have won. No point doing what they did last year a rushing out patches to fix a game which is hugely broken. The game is clearly very good all round, i think its clear just a few tweaks are needed such as making team cross more on short pass tactical settings.
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Interestingly enough, yesterday I asked on Twitter about the gameplay patch they promised on December 15th. I was told that 1.02 was a gameplay patch.

I think a patch would be needed to improve defensive AI. Way too many gaps.
 
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Que? They changed the gameplay at 1.02??? Really? Gameplay has been the carbon copy same since release.

Problem about people on twitter is its all hype. Its a false idol builder
 
klashman69 said:
Yet the very reason that happens is because PSG are set to Possession game, short pass, so if there is no short pass option available to go forward they pass backwards. Also their formation is unbalanced, with their attackers are set very high up the pitch. For example Cavani won't drop from the left wing to help receive the ball because he's set as a center forward left of Zlatan.

The core problem is when you set a team to 'short pass' there's a refusal at times for the AI to try a long ball, unless a player is correctly designated into a position in which his playing style has a 'pinpoint pass' on.

What driving me mad is the AI's stubborn refusal to cross, they refuse to cross as long as you set short pass on. not just they rarely cross but when they do it's only if a low ball across goal is available.

What needs to be changed is some commands to change the likelyhood of the CPU trying a long pass when team tactics is set to 'short pass' There needs to be some commands also like in the previous pes games for the CPU to look for a cross first when at the 18 yard byline rather than religiously follow the short pass tactic.

What I've discovered is this CPU pass like crazy is no really a bug at all, it's formations which are very unbalanced which is the problem. afew are ok, the majority are outrageously unbalanced.

The depth goes up massively when you start actually setting up teams properly.
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konami need to include randomness in the ai.

So even if formation set to short pass it doesnt mean 100% short pass...just like short pass preffered option but 10-20% of the time they will try long ball or cross etc..
 
klashman69 said:
Que? They changed the gameplay at 1.02??? Really? Gameplay has been the carbon copy same since release.

Problem about people on twitter is its all hype. Its a false idol builder
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Could be. I asked officialpes - who on Dec 15th promised a gameplay patch soon - and onlyproevo, and the latter responded that 1.02 was the gameplay patch they had promised. See the first tweets on

https://www.twitter.com/onlyproevo

But I agree, I didn't notice any change.
 
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pesorfifa said:
konami need to include randomness in the ai.

So even if formation set to short pass it doesnt mean 100% short pass...just like short pass preffered option but 10-20% of the time they will try long ball or cross etc..
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NO!!! EA does that and look at their game.

No, no random, the correct term is variable. Randomness means nothing, it's only a perception. The key is variables. there needs to be be more commands and variables for the AI to be aware to cross the fucking ball.
 
klashman69 said:
NO!!! EA does that and look at their game.

No, no random, the correct term is variable. Randomness means nothing, it's only a perception. The key is variables. there needs to be be more commands and variables for the AI to be aware to cross the fucking ball.
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yeh i guess my word choice was wrong.

I just mean if the cpu is set to short passing posession game..it doenst mean they do that 100% of the time just like 75-85% of time.

Like real life even if Barcelona set out a short passing game it doesnt mean they never do any long balls or corsses at all lol..Its just a preference and konami need to edit it like that.
 
The game need sliders... A sports game without sliders at 2015 is just ridiculous. And before someone say that sliders means that the developers will become lazy about gameplay because it´s not true, basically ALL sports games have sliders and many people are happy with the changes they made to the respective games gameplay.

I am really bored with 2015 by now. The game makes you use the through ball so many times that it becomes not an enjoyable experience. If there were no through balls in the game there will be 80/90% less goals per game, but for sure the game would be much more fun.
 
I just think that the tactics need one more edit which they had in the old PES. A timeline of the match where you can choose the team's tactic when the game is tied, winning, or losing. I remember they had that where you can select all out attack after the 80th minute if your team is losing and counter attacks if its tied, etc. That would be very useful here as it doesn't make sense to have a team play possession ball when they're down 1-0 at home in the 80th minute. They have a great tactics system built-in where attack can be very varied depending on what is chosen, they are just too lazy to implement the different tactics to different teams and make them varied or react to the score-line. (They do have that coding, i do remember computer setting to defense or attack depending on the goals scored and time, but problem is they default settings for attack and defend are the same possession short pass)
 
ss4_goku said:
I just think that the tactics need one more edit which they had in the old PES. A timeline of the match where you can choose the team's tactic when the game is tied, winning, or losing. I remember they had that where you can select all out attack after the 80th minute if your team is losing and counter attacks if its tied, etc. That would be very useful here as it doesn't make sense to have a team play possession ball when they're down 1-0 at home in the 80th minute. They have a great tactics system built-in where attack can be very varied depending on what is chosen, they are just too lazy to implement the different tactics to different teams and make them varied or react to the score-line. (They do have that coding, i do remember computer setting to defense or attack depending on the goals scored and time, but problem is they default settings for attack and defend are the same possession short pass)
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This. Completely agree.
 
Honome said:
The game need sliders... A sports game without sliders at 2015 is just ridiculous. And before someone say that sliders means that the developers will become lazy about gameplay because it´s not true, basically ALL sports games have sliders and many people are happy with the changes they made to the respective games gameplay.

I am really bored with 2015 by now. The game makes you use the through ball so many times that it becomes not an enjoyable experience. If there were no through balls in the game there will be 80/90% less goals per game, but for sure the game would be much more fun.
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Very good post, agree 100%. Seems a lot of people are getting bored already.

I saw so many pre-owned copies of this in CEX and GAME when I popped into town yesterday.

Its a shame. At first, I was like WOW - PES is back. But I think times have changed, people (myself included) want more from their football games now.

IF PES 2015 had a more in-depth online and non-laggy gameplay, it would be bearable.
 
Honome said:
The game need sliders... A sports game without sliders at 2015 is just ridiculous. And before someone say that sliders means that the developers will become lazy about gameplay because it´s not true, basically ALL sports games have sliders and many people are happy with the changes they made to the respective games gameplay.

I am really bored with 2015 by now. The game makes you use the through ball so many times that it becomes not an enjoyable experience. If there were no through balls in the game there will be 80/90% less goals per game, but for sure the game would be much more fun.
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Other than the bars for passing assistance, maybe (although the game is best on 0 bars), no sliders, thank-you. The gameplay in PES 2015 isn't too far away from being where it needs to be if Konami continue to evolve it. No need for FIFA-like sliders.
 
Fray Bentos said:
Very good post, agree 100%. Seems a lot of people are getting bored already.

I saw so many pre-owned copies of this in CEX and GAME when I popped into town yesterday.

Its a shame. At first, I was like WOW - PES is back. But I think times have changed, people (myself included) want more from their football games now.

IF PES 2015 had a more in-depth online and non-laggy gameplay, it would be bearable.
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I´ve read that bold part a few times in here.
It may be right, but I think what we want is a better optimized footy game which KONAMI already had delivered in past years.

Better optimization leads to long term satisfaction and it´s not necessarily about presentation and shining.

The last parts I had the most fun with were PES 2011 and 2013.
Almost everything had been right there, even graphics (PC), goalnets, player ID, AI, tactical menus etc.

In PES 2015 for example I don´t feel that much difference in player stats like it used to be in the above named releases except for Robben, Messi or Ronaldo.
These stand out which has also a lot to do with their visuals and running animation and it is fun playing with them, specially with Robben, no doubt.
I also never had that rail-feeling with through balls before.

Plus, better optimized game modes like ML with a little more stuff around it like it has been before PES 2014.
It´s too simple and naked.

They got the core and they could make it.
 
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Fray Bentos said:
Very good post, agree 100%. Seems a lot of people are getting bored already.

I saw so many pre-owned copies of this in CEX and GAME when I popped into town yesterday.

Its a shame. At first, I was like WOW - PES is back. But I think times have changed, people (myself included) want more from their football games now.

IF PES 2015 had a more in-depth online and non-laggy gameplay, it would be bearable.
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Disagree with absolutely everything in this post.

If you want sliders stick with FIFA I prefer pes the way it is - by no means perfect but sliders must be kept the hell out.

The only thing I want out of this game (that I play on and offline daily) is the old tactics where you could set sliders for 40min goal down push up or hold possession etc..
 
Ipswich69 said:
Other than the bars for passing assistance, maybe (although the game is best on 0 bars), no sliders, thank-you. The gameplay in PES 2015 isn't too far away from being where it needs to be if Konami continue to evolve it. No need for FIFA-like sliders.
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Why do you say FIFA-like sliders? Did i said that Fifa is a beter game because it have sliders? Fifa was one of the last sports games to include gameplay sliders, but they were already present in basketball, hockey, american football (eggsball), baseball etc.

I still think Fifa have many problems that not even sliders can solve, however at least people have a chance to change something on gameplay to become more enjoyable for their taste. If PES 2015 had sliders for through pass accurancy it would alreasy be a game changer for so mnay people, including me. A slider for shot power and accurancy or pass speed could also be a game changer for others.

Just because sliders is something you would never use it means it should not be in the game. I really don´t see any reason for no sliders in PES in the near future, i am sure it´s just a matter of time.
 
zeemeister said:
Disagree with absolutely everything in this post.

If you want sliders stick with FIFA I prefer pes the way it is - by no means perfect but sliders must be kept the hell out.

The only thing I want out of this game (that I play on and offline daily) is the old tactics where you could set sliders for 40min goal down push up or hold possession etc..
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It's not about sliders though - what about the button lag online? When I press 'PASS' or 'SHOOT', I want the player to do that NOW, not 3 seconds later! So many people complaining about it, not just me. How is that acceptable in 2015? What about the spammed through ball which creates a goal 90% of the time, every time?

And their awful servers. And playing at the same 3 stadiums all the time. And the lack of match making - if I choose West Ham, why should I have to play against Real Madrid everytime? It's a borefest.
 
Honome said:
Why do you say FIFA-like sliders? Did i said that Fifa is a beter game because it have sliders? Fifa was one of the last sports games to include gameplay sliders, but they were already present in basketball, hockey, american football (eggsball), baseball etc.

I still think Fifa have many problems that not even sliders can solve, however at least people have a chance to change something on gameplay to become more enjoyable for their taste. If PES 2015 had sliders for through pass accurancy it would alreasy be a game changer for so mnay people, including me. A slider for shot power and accurancy or pass speed could also be a game changer for others.

Just because sliders is something you would never use it means it should not be in the game. I really don´t see any reason for no sliders in PES in the near future, i am sure it´s just a matter of time.
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I never said you said FIFA is a better game because of sliders. What I did say is that PES isn't far away from being the great game it used to be, circa 2005, when it has no sliders at all. No need for sliders now either. Just improvements to the AI and animations, as well as the edit and ML modes.
 
Ipswich69 said:
I never said you said FIFA is a better game because of sliders. What I did say is that PES isn't far away from being the great game it used to be, circa 2005, when it has no sliders at all. No need for sliders now either. Just improvements to the AI and animations, as well as the edit and ML modes.
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Well, if you want that PES plays like a 10 year old game that´s fine, but that´s not enough for me, and for the majority of people. I would like a new PES at least 10 times better than what was PES6, and the way it is it´s not even close to achieve that.

And about sliders you are probably right, konami should keep them away since ALL the others sports games have them... Konami must be right. They are always right, aren't? I am sure their yearly PES sales shows that they are in the right direction... the direction of the end of the series.
 
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