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PES 2014 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lami
- Start date
- Status
Danny Henry
The King is dead.
- 16 September 2013
I was playing online for the first time last night and I must say that was a horrible experience. I was playing with Corinthians and my opponent choose Barcelona. I start scoring two goals when the guy that I was playing against, start to spamming chip shots from inside the box. He scored three goals that way. Chip shots are too accurate and the keeper positioning and reaction to step back and tip the ball over the bar are abysmal. The match ended 3x3, I will never play online again.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Haha I had same message at first. Kinda made me mad. I supported Konami by buying the game at full price on launch day, got pissed about left right and centre by Konami's data pack not working for 360 for a fortnight, waited until November for a patch to try and fix some of the gameplay and even give us a transfer update, before finally giving up on the game and selling it for under half of what I paid for it.
Then Konami tell me I'm not eligible to complete their feedback survey!
I got into it eventually but like I said, even then, it malfunctioned and sent me to the beginning twice before I gave up. This company is hilarious.
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abriroyesejuiii
Premier League
very good
I've also returned two weeks ago to pes 2013, very happy, the game is not perfect, but you can enjoy a little more, I'm using all manual, including shooting, very good.
2014 is a strange game, shooting, passing, movement, everything is weird
2014 everyone waiting, but never thought the game would be worse, gameplay has been pathetic, players lost player ID, the only thing good are the graphics, nor is it the best I've seen
2014=
So I've been playing PES 2009 lately and I'm left wondering why the game is often spoken about so poorly. It's often lumped in with the absolutely dire PES 2008 and that seems quite disingenuous to a game that is honestly, much more fun and rewarding than 2014 has ever been for me. There's a lot of good design in the game and it only adds to the misery to see how much the new games have just ignored the roots that made them so successful. It's not perfect but I've been playing it a lot and it's a much better arcade game than 2014 is a realistic one. It's not a great game but that's what's important because it still does a lot of basic things better than PES 2014 does.
I should point out that when I first loaded 2009 I did laugh at it. I thought it was as crappy as everybody said it was but the more I played, the more I got hooked and realised why PES used to be such a good series. It wasn't because of how realistic it looked, it was because of how fun the game felt whilst maintaining a distinct air of challenge that remains fair. It seems to me that 2009 may even be the only real HD version of PS2 PES that we got (perhaps 2010 too, I'd have to check).
Of course, the negatives are there like the animation being terribly clunky, passing being way too accurate and the speed of the game being a little bit fast but these seem to be the only really bad things and I'm left wondering if the hate for the game remains quite, well, superficial, which at this point has become a hot-topic given how good PES 2014 looks as if it plays and how badly it actually feels to play. I wonder if we and Konami have become so obsessed with how the game looks that we've under-valued the basic design parts which made the series work so well.
So onto the design parts I wanted to address:
Firstly, attacking is hard. Chances are relatively few and far between and it makes me look at PES 2014 and wonder why the new games have become such an attack-fest. I get no reward scoring in PES 2014 but much of that is down to how easy I seem to find it to get into the box and this has been a recurring theme for years now. Remember the bullet shots from 2012 for instance. The design of 2009 rewards the player much more because it makes you feel as if creating chances is difficult and ergo when you put the ball into the net, it feels special. The defenders are clearly superior in and around the box compared to the attackers unless you manage to weave a piece of magic. PES 2014 isn't so different here but the defenders are just too good at tackling and timing isn't a necessary aspect. Tackling is simple too in 2009 but timing is crucial, most of the time you simply can't make an easy tackle and need to block out passes. Clever play is needed to get around the defence and I think this may well be what the magic is.
Secondly, the tactics screen in the old games is just better than the new ones. It's fast, intuitive and promotes you to program in tactics because you aren't dallying about waiting for it to respond to your user-input. You can either press about 3 buttons within the space of 1 second and choose Auto-Sort to get into the game which the best players or get more in-depth. The new style formation screen makes me want to get past it as quickly as possible because it's slow and laborious. I find myself wanting to set up custom tactics in 2009, which is something I've never felt compelled to do in 2014.
Thirdly, individuality. Gary Neville is slow and can't catch up with wingers once they've beaten him. Peter Crouch isn't very good at bringing the ball down. Jonny Evans isn't good at dribbling. Dong Fangzhou can't even control the ball. The ML players aren't good at playing long balls. All that stuff which has gone missing in PES 2014 essentially. The players have become too samey lately and I barely feel as if I'm controlling individuals any more.
Fourthly, Master League. It's the old style one. You can make fantasy leagues and create your own team from scratch. It's great. The stranglehold of the Champions League license and the devotion to realism has become such a bug-bear for me in the new PES games. There's about 5 European leagues in total. There's simply not enough to try to be realistic so why bother.
Fifthly, it's just simple. This is presumably what draws a line between those looking for a good arcade-style game and those looking for a realistic one. The aspects to the game are small which probably makes balancing things a lot easier and also draws away from realism, but importantly it works.
Sixly, physics. Weirdly 2009 has some of the best physics the series has seen. Shooting has a distinct weight about it but shots can be weak and powerful. I remember 2012 being a game with decent physics, except that every shot was a rocket-shot making long-shots way too simple.
Closing Thoughts
The fifth point is really the point of this post I feel. I think PES has lost sight of the bigger picture. Adding in more and more things is what makes a game look attractive but it isn't necessarily what makes the game look better and it's up to Konami to use the new engine to good effect, not merely because it looks pretty. By playing the old games, you begin to realise how well things used to work and how crucial the balance between the simple things was, which in turn made an excellent game full of depth, even at times when they animations began to look ridiculous. It's hard work making a game I am sure but if PES wants to advance and become the series it once was then I'd wager it would do well to go back and look at why the series worked well in the first place. Getting the basics right is the most important thing and design-aspects such as shooting, stats and tactics have become terribly under-managed making the game look really good but making it feel really dull.
So yes, onwards and upwards with PES 2015. It's really up to Konami at this point. If these things are obvious to experienced players then why aren't they to the team behind the game? If there was an option for the survey to include 'Do You Think The Team Should Go Back and Play The Old Games Whilst Making Some Notes on a Scrap of Paper About What They Like?' then I'd probably click the box that says 'YES'.
I should point out that when I first loaded 2009 I did laugh at it. I thought it was as crappy as everybody said it was but the more I played, the more I got hooked and realised why PES used to be such a good series. It wasn't because of how realistic it looked, it was because of how fun the game felt whilst maintaining a distinct air of challenge that remains fair. It seems to me that 2009 may even be the only real HD version of PS2 PES that we got (perhaps 2010 too, I'd have to check).
Of course, the negatives are there like the animation being terribly clunky, passing being way too accurate and the speed of the game being a little bit fast but these seem to be the only really bad things and I'm left wondering if the hate for the game remains quite, well, superficial, which at this point has become a hot-topic given how good PES 2014 looks as if it plays and how badly it actually feels to play. I wonder if we and Konami have become so obsessed with how the game looks that we've under-valued the basic design parts which made the series work so well.
So onto the design parts I wanted to address:
Firstly, attacking is hard. Chances are relatively few and far between and it makes me look at PES 2014 and wonder why the new games have become such an attack-fest. I get no reward scoring in PES 2014 but much of that is down to how easy I seem to find it to get into the box and this has been a recurring theme for years now. Remember the bullet shots from 2012 for instance. The design of 2009 rewards the player much more because it makes you feel as if creating chances is difficult and ergo when you put the ball into the net, it feels special. The defenders are clearly superior in and around the box compared to the attackers unless you manage to weave a piece of magic. PES 2014 isn't so different here but the defenders are just too good at tackling and timing isn't a necessary aspect. Tackling is simple too in 2009 but timing is crucial, most of the time you simply can't make an easy tackle and need to block out passes. Clever play is needed to get around the defence and I think this may well be what the magic is.
Secondly, the tactics screen in the old games is just better than the new ones. It's fast, intuitive and promotes you to program in tactics because you aren't dallying about waiting for it to respond to your user-input. You can either press about 3 buttons within the space of 1 second and choose Auto-Sort to get into the game which the best players or get more in-depth. The new style formation screen makes me want to get past it as quickly as possible because it's slow and laborious. I find myself wanting to set up custom tactics in 2009, which is something I've never felt compelled to do in 2014.
Thirdly, individuality. Gary Neville is slow and can't catch up with wingers once they've beaten him. Peter Crouch isn't very good at bringing the ball down. Jonny Evans isn't good at dribbling. Dong Fangzhou can't even control the ball. The ML players aren't good at playing long balls. All that stuff which has gone missing in PES 2014 essentially. The players have become too samey lately and I barely feel as if I'm controlling individuals any more.
Fourthly, Master League. It's the old style one. You can make fantasy leagues and create your own team from scratch. It's great. The stranglehold of the Champions League license and the devotion to realism has become such a bug-bear for me in the new PES games. There's about 5 European leagues in total. There's simply not enough to try to be realistic so why bother.
Fifthly, it's just simple. This is presumably what draws a line between those looking for a good arcade-style game and those looking for a realistic one. The aspects to the game are small which probably makes balancing things a lot easier and also draws away from realism, but importantly it works.
Sixly, physics. Weirdly 2009 has some of the best physics the series has seen. Shooting has a distinct weight about it but shots can be weak and powerful. I remember 2012 being a game with decent physics, except that every shot was a rocket-shot making long-shots way too simple.
Closing Thoughts
The fifth point is really the point of this post I feel. I think PES has lost sight of the bigger picture. Adding in more and more things is what makes a game look attractive but it isn't necessarily what makes the game look better and it's up to Konami to use the new engine to good effect, not merely because it looks pretty. By playing the old games, you begin to realise how well things used to work and how crucial the balance between the simple things was, which in turn made an excellent game full of depth, even at times when they animations began to look ridiculous. It's hard work making a game I am sure but if PES wants to advance and become the series it once was then I'd wager it would do well to go back and look at why the series worked well in the first place. Getting the basics right is the most important thing and design-aspects such as shooting, stats and tactics have become terribly under-managed making the game look really good but making it feel really dull.
So yes, onwards and upwards with PES 2015. It's really up to Konami at this point. If these things are obvious to experienced players then why aren't they to the team behind the game? If there was an option for the survey to include 'Do You Think The Team Should Go Back and Play The Old Games Whilst Making Some Notes on a Scrap of Paper About What They Like?' then I'd probably click the box that says 'YES'.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #20,797
spektarm
Premier League
- 6 October 2006
- Team
- Manchester United
Konami screwing up the simplest of things, how come they're continuing to be so inadequate after everything they've put their fans through...
I'd like to hear what you think, Lami?
- Thread starter
- #20,800
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
When's the survey patch?
Skylark
Premier League
- 29 August 2013
though its a buggy survey, it has some good points and seems like Konami is trying to get back on field and fight with fifa..i am appreciating it very much !
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Oh, great post by the way. Really enjoying reading your thoughts recently.
I agree that there is something about the simplicity of PES pre-2011 that was very endearing.
- Thread starter
- #20,804
Probably sometime in November!
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Urgh.
Skylark
Premier League
- 29 August 2013
I also never really got the hate for PES 2009. It had the CL licence, was a vast improvement on 2008 and I thought it played a pretty good game of football. I remember that Keane was a better player than Torres in Liverpool apart from that its flaws have escaped my memory.
I would probably be OK with 2014 if it just had powerful shots going in from time to time. Toning down from 2013 was not a bad idea but they took it too far. Making a shot like Suarez did against Norwich, catching the keeper off guard, is utterly impossible. I used to get great joy from trying absurd long rangers because the keeper had ventured to far out. In 2014, no way, absolutely no way.
I'll hand it to Konami, the patch made the game a lot better but there is still a lack of PES magic.
I would probably be OK with 2014 if it just had powerful shots going in from time to time. Toning down from 2013 was not a bad idea but they took it too far. Making a shot like Suarez did against Norwich, catching the keeper off guard, is utterly impossible. I used to get great joy from trying absurd long rangers because the keeper had ventured to far out. In 2014, no way, absolutely no way.
I'll hand it to Konami, the patch made the game a lot better but there is still a lack of PES magic.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #20,810
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
PES2010 was the most fun PES of the last generation and looked great too.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Really? Half of the questions seemed to be about which other games we like to play, where we find out news about PES etc and asks if stuff like mobile apps are important.
If they need to do a questionnaire asking if we think offline ML and game modes are important, there's something wrong. Most of the questions about the current game were kinda vague and not all that helpful. That is until it threw me out of the survey, but after repeatedly telling me I wasn't eligible.
- Thread starter
- #20,814
I agree to both of these. I spent quite a time on ML too. The game looked so clean. I have the WE Blue Samurai version as well which is even better.
zeemeister
foxy engine
2014 is the best to date. Had a blast a few minutes ago
I did try to buy it but the website told me they didn't have any left in stock despite saying they did. I'll get around to it some time. I think I'd appreciate heavier players.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
If fans thinking like You i don't have any word to say
Pes 2010 the most fun od the last generation? All Pes in last generations were shit in all aspects. Pes was fun but on Ps2 days.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Don't say anything then. Suits me.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
Most fun I had this gen was with PES2011 MLO beta.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
I enjoyed PES 2011 the most even offline, really enjoyed my ML at that time. I'd not played the game for a few years since 2008 so it was fresh and something different at the time.
Plus, in ML, you could, y'know, actually do stuff.
Plus, in ML, you could, y'know, actually do stuff.
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