PES 2014 Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
ZeroTheHero said:
I've never played a football game where the AI isn't somewhat retarded when it comes to decision making. That includes manager games whenever the match is visually displayed. So I don't see any point making it a negative point towards PES 2014 as they're all like that, always have been and probably always will.
Click to expand...

I've never watched a football match where someone is not being retarded. Barca performance against Sociedad reminded me of the heart feature on PES 2014. Pique almost caused a goal when he stuck a leg out to a simple throughpass. I kept thinking of the heart feature and how a team can school man city in the week then look like a 2nd division team at the weekend.
YouTube - Real Sociedad Vs Barcelona 3 1 All Goals And Highlights La liga 22 2 14 HD
 
Last edited:
zeemeister said:
I've never watched a football match where someone is not being retarded. Barca performance against Sociedad reminded me of the heart feature on PES 2014. Pique almost caused a goal when he stuck a leg out to a simple throughpass. I kept thinking of the heart feature and how a team can school man city in the week then look like a 2nd division team at the weekend.
YouTube - Real Sociedad Vs Barcelona 3 1 All Goals And Highlights La liga 22 2 14 HD
Click to expand...

Yes Zee, been thinking about this a lot lately and IMO, people (myself included) may be a little quick to criticise certain things in the game that have an influence over stuff we cannot control.

Part of the problem is this 'control' thing, where people like to feel that the game will pan out in x direction. For example we play as a superior side against another side and psychologically expect the game to go in a certain direction, kind of because it's a game.

Then when something out of the ordinary happens we question everything because we've lost an element of control. Liverpool-Swansea is a great example, of Liverpool going 2-0 up then getting back to 2-2. A lot of people on here would probably be up in arms if that happened in PES when in fact, generally, PES does a very good job of replicating the random element in sport.

I played West Ham as Liverpool for example, and lost 2-1 to West Ham by a late goal even though I was the better side. They played a tight defensive game, and the game was a slow tempo tight affair throughout. But I got frustrated and they picked me off on the counter.

The next game was totally different. The team I played came to attack and it was clear it was going to be zinger. After scoring first in the previous game on the 10th minute and not being able to score the second for the next 80, I proceeded to score 2 in the first 20 minutes.

It finished 3-0 and I had about 20 shots on the goal; it could have been 10 nil. But that's football. Stuff like this I'm always very impressed with PES. I can't explain it, but FIFA for example has always felt 'so' contrived. One element that feels different this year which I really like, and I'm not sure if it's placebo or not, but I feel that away games are harder to pick up points, like they should be.

On another note, I do a lot of sports betting stuff and believe me, on a day to day basis, the stuff that happens IRL across the globe is NOTHING to what PES 'scripts' thrown up...if this stuff happened in PES more there'd be a huge outcry of 'unbelievable' etc etc.

After this latest patch, I'm having a great time with the game. In around 6/7 matches I've only had one situation where I'd call keeper blunder, but even that was passable as it was the animation of the keeper that made it look completely shit rather than the outcome.

Scripts seem to have been toned down, but there's still enough in there that when you make an error the CPU can punish you. I'm loving the dribbling more now, and the shot power and shots in general I think are improved considerably. I'd say ML offline, is now near an 8, 8.5 game.
 
Totally agree with the points you've made, as I said earlier some people love to sit down and play it until they find a fault and then come on forums looking for plaudits as if they've discovered something nobody else has noticed.

If they can't see that this patch is a huge improvement and that the game is enjoyable well then they are either too proud to admit it or they can't see it, which would be incredible.

I did my share of moaning about it pre patch but I have to take my hat off to Konami on this patch it's now a great game to play.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
I've never played a football game where the AI isn't somewhat retarded when it comes to decision making. That includes manager games whenever the match is visually displayed. So I don't see any point making it a negative point towards PES 2014 as they're all like that, always have been and probably always will.
Click to expand...

Regarding BAL, it's worse this year as far as I can see, so that is noteworthy. Like most things (except republicans)PES is supposed to evolve not regress. Also, I don't agree with the last 7 words of your paragraph. They haven't always been and it's a bit naive to say they probably always will be.
 
Ipswich69 said:
Regarding BAL, it's worse this year as far as I can see, so that is noteworthy.
Click to expand...

You should look again then, or get glasses because the AI isn't worse. The "retardedness" I was referring to was those odd cases when a striker alone with the keeper figure it a good solution to make a backpass to the left defender which just happen to be in the middle of the pitch. This happens, although rarely, in PES, FIFA, Football Manager and every other football game under the sun occasionally.

Ipswich69 said:
Like most things (except republicans)PES is supposed to evolve not regress. Also, I don't agree with the last 7 words of your paragraph. They haven't always been and it's a bit naive to say they probably always will be.
Click to expand...

It's not naive at all, it's the way AI's work if you want to keep it relatively free. Leave a small opening for every available option and sometimes the worst possible combination will be picked.
 
After the patch 1.07 the game is really good for me, especially the better responsiveness that make the game more dinamic.

I am not sure why but online the game is still not so enjoyable for me. I guess is because the most of the people i am playing try to do the same play all the time and it's boring, but the bizarre goals happens much more often online either.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
You should look again then, or get glasses because the AI isn't worse. The "retardedness" I was referring to was those odd cases when a striker alone with the keeper figure it a good solution to make a backpass to the left defender which just happen to be in the middle of the pitch. This happens, although rarely, in PES, FIFA, Football Manager and every other football game under the sun occasionally.


It's not naive at all, it's the way AI's work if you want to keep it relatively free. Leave a small opening for every available option and sometimes the worst possible combination will be picked.
Click to expand...

Definitely worse this year for whatever reason. However, it should get better in the future on the new consoles with the advanced computing power they offer.

Oh, and while I've got your attention, let's stop using the word "retarded" in the way you are using it on here please. By using that word, whether you realize it or not, you are minimizing the struggles of disabled people and their families. You are demeaning, mocking and disrespecting a society of people who have been forced to endure more hardship and struggles than most, simply by nature of their birth.
 
Last edited:
Retarded means less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.

I would say that PES AI, and other franchises' AI, is at an age where it should've been more evolved which makes this particular adjective spot on.

What is demeaning is that you think that someone would actually be offended by an adjective unless it's taken out of the context in which it was used.
 
Last edited:
JBranco said:
After the patch 1.07 the game is really good for me, especially the better responsiveness that make the game more dinamic.

I am not sure why but online the game is still not so enjoyable for me. I guess is because the most of the people i am playing try to do the same play all the time and it's boring, but the bizarre goals happens much more often online either.
Click to expand...

this game is the BEST pes since pes 6. without any doubts!
 
I'm finding I get caught in possession a lot on World Class whereas Pro level seems a bit one-sided in my favour. What are your views on the best difficulty level/settings for Master League?
 
I got addicted to this game again!
Can´t wait to keep on playing my ML with the new patch of "U know who".

I´ve been playing master league online the last days and it´s so much fun to me.
Scored some really nice goals!
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Retarded means less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.

I would say that PES AI, and other franchises' AI, is at an age where it should've been more evolved which makes this particular adjective spot on.

What is demeaning is that you think that someone would actually be offended by an adjective unless it's taken out of the context in which it was used.
Click to expand...

The definition you give (i.e. the first one that comes up when you quickly look 'retarded' up to deny any wrongdoing and bafflingly try to turn it around) is one as applied to a human subject. Use of the term in reference to a person is widely seen as pejorative, as it is commonly used by those not in the medical profession to refer to people either of a particular disability or to people not of that disability to imply that they are.

Funnily enough I don't believe you were using the term with the intention of clinically diagnosing it with a developmental condition; equally what you've written in your defence is thinly veiled revisionism, akin to Ricky Gervais' attempted reclamation of another offensive term aimed at people with Down's Syndrome.

It is far more likely (even without factoring your general posting behaviour and tone outside of that post) that you were applying said word as a derisory term intended to attribute stupidity to PES 2014, in the way many forum posters tend to casually bandy the term about indiscriminately having appropriated it from its original meaning (that which you have copied and pasted from google). You could have used the word to imply a deliberate holding back of the AI as part of the game design (in the way that retardation is the opposite of acceleration), but that would have required a far more deliberate and specific phrasing to achieve.

It's a word that requires a fair bit of mental dexterity and precision to use correctly without being derisory. As such I'd recommend you look for another word with which to replace it.

On-topic: I've started playing again. It's mildly fun, and definitely a better experience than it was 4 months ago, but the issues preventing it from being a mental challenge - the combination of player individuality, spontaneity of expression and ability to succeed through different strategies depending on different conditions - cannot be addressed without at least one more release of PES. Even if the demo seems incredible for the entire month or so it's out, I won't be buying 2015 on day one, if at all. I got a good month or so out of 2014 before I knocked it on the head and had a far better time for it.
 
Last edited:
romagnoli said:
It is far more likely (even without factoring your general posting behaviour and tone outside of that post) that you were applying said word as a derisory term intended to attribute stupidity to PES 2014, in the way many forum posters tend to casually bandy the term about indiscriminately having appropriated it from its original meaning (that which you have copied and pasted from google).
Click to expand...

No shit Sherlock? In the next post I even explained EXACTLY what I referred to with this term, which is those instances where a term like "stupidity" doesn't really cover properly and I didn't specify PES2014 as the target at all but all football games in fact. I could even had been more general and said "AI in general".

I'd advice you not to make hairy assumptions in the future, it doesn't look good when they're either wrong or admitted/explained already.
 
Last edited:
Good. You've read my post as far as that. Keep going, you've almost understood why your use of 'retarded' was offensive. You can do it!
 
It's not all positive.
I'm playing a league with Real Sociedad and against Granada i had that feeling again that no matter what i doubt, i will never win that match.
I had the feeling the CPU was cheating. I don't like it if the CPU cheats, the only one that is supposed to cheat is me, not the CPU...
So i decided to test if i could win that match. So far i've played it seven times andlist all seven...the most obvious one was a match that i really enjoyed. I lost that one 5-3 and was by far the better team. My forward came alone before the GK and suddenly refused to control the ball or to shoot until the defender came back...sometimes my defenders couldn't give a one meter pass without it being intercepted and after a GK howler it resulted in a goal...etc,etc,...

I am a bad player ? Of course i am. I play top player and until then i had won all my matches (granted: only 5).

This is not good...
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Not nearly as offensive as your last post to say the least.
Click to expand...

Actually, looking through my post again, the penny should have dropped by the time you point got to the point you’d quoted. I don't usually do this, but as it's speaking to a broader forum behaviour that really ought to be nipped in the bud anyway...

You were using the word retarded to mean stupid, as an offensive term aimed at an inanimate object. You claimed retrospectively that you had meant a more specific type of stupid (which you hadn't - that was merely a convenient application of the meaning you'd just looked up - but that's academic), still as a derisive term.

If you use the word retarded derisively to mean stupid, however specifically that type of stupid may be, you are reinforcing the notion that the term is a pejorative one, whether aimed at people or at objects. You're not freeing the word of its offensive context; you're appropriating the word specifically because of its offensive context. You're not using the word in the way you might say "the progress of games in general is being retarded by the lack of research & development time being spent on AI"; you're saying "the AI is retarded, look at the stupid things it does".

Your attempt to further absolve yourself of any wrongdoing is to say that you weren't specifically aiming the derision at PES but at games in general - which only further proves that you don't realise the problem is your use of 'retarded' as a term of derision.

So all things considered, zero, perhaps saying the least would be your best course of action.
 
Last edited:
gerd said:
It's not all positive.
I'm playing a league with Real Sociedad and against Granada i had that feeling again that no matter what i doubt, i will never win that match.
I had the feeling the CPU was cheating. I don't like it if the CPU cheats, the only one that is supposed to cheat is me, not the CPU...
So i decided to test if i could win that match. So far i've played it seven times andlist all seven...the most obvious one was a match that i really enjoyed. I lost that one 5-3 and was by far the better team. My forward came alone before the GK and suddenly refused to control the ball or to shoot until the defender came back...sometimes my defenders couldn't give a one meter pass without it being intercepted and after a GK howler it resulted in a goal...etc,etc,...

I am a bad player ? Of course i am. I play top player and until then i had won all my matches (granted: only 5).

This is not good...
Click to expand...

That´s what´s happening since PES 2012 (maybe even earlier), so not really a PES 2014 problem. So I´m fine with it.

I remember having that in PES 2012 and 2013 playing the MLO.
Specially in CL playoffs there were games where I had the feeling I´m not allowed to win them.
Players didn´t react well, passes went wrong, the ball simply didn´t wanna get in the goal, hit the post, they shot the ball far away from the goal and the CPU seemed to have advantages in positioning and ball physics.
I also tested that and played a few games over and over and it was always the same. I´ve narrowly won those matches with the 3rd or 4th attempt.

This year I haven´t really experienced this "cheat" that hard, but in PES 2012 and 2013 it was there.

It´s a controversial topic though as many peeps would say "don´t blame bad playing on the game, blame it on yourself".
 
gerd said:
It's not all positive.
I'm playing a league with Real Sociedad and against Granada i had that feeling again that no matter what i doubt, i will never win that match.
I had the feeling the CPU was cheating. I don't like it if the CPU cheats, the only one that is supposed to cheat is me, not the CPU...
So i decided to test if i could win that match. So far i've played it seven times andlist all seven...the most obvious one was a match that i really enjoyed. I lost that one 5-3 and was by far the better team. My forward came alone before the GK and suddenly refused to control the ball or to shoot until the defender came back...sometimes my defenders couldn't give a one meter pass without it being intercepted and after a GK howler it resulted in a goal...etc,etc,...

I am a bad player ? Of course i am. I play top player and until then i had won all my matches (granted: only 5).

This is not good...
Click to expand...

do you concede a goal in the first 5-0 minutes every time you play this match? i had a similar feeling
 
Why does anybody bother arguing with Zero anymore?! Every thread he goes into he starts an argument :LOL:

He loves to argue and is very rarely right, so just leave it at that :-D
 
romagnoli said:
Actually, looking through my post again, the penny should have dropped by the time you point got to the point you’d quoted. I don't usually do this, but as it's speaking to a broader forum behaviour that really ought to be nipped in the bud anyway...

You were using the word retarded to mean stupid, as an offensive term aimed at an inanimate object. You claimed retrospectively that you had meant a more specific type of stupid (which you hadn't - that was merely a convenient application of the meaning you'd just looked up - but that's academic), still as a derisive term.

If you use the word retarded derisively to mean stupid, however specifically that type of stupid may be, you are reinforcing the notion that the term is a pejorative one, whether aimed at people or at objects. You're not freeing the word of its offensive context; you're appropriating the word specifically because of its offensive context. You're not using the word in the way you might say "the progress of games in general is being retarded by the lack of research & development time being spent on AI"; you're saying "the AI is retarded, look at the stupid things it does".

Your attempt to further absolve yourself of any wrongdoing is to say that you weren't specifically aiming the derision at PES but at games in general - which only further proves that you don't realise the problem is your use of 'retarded' as a term of derision.

So all things considered, zero, perhaps saying the least would be your best course of action.
Click to expand...



Good show romagnoli. Are you finished with offtopic now or can we expect another poorly hidden wall of text containing nothing but personal insults and wrong assumptions?

BobbyBox said:
Why does anybody bother arguing with Zero anymore?! Every thread he goes into he starts an argument :LOL:

He loves to argue and is very rarely right, so just leave it at that :-D
Click to expand...

I didn't start it, so there you go. And I am almost always right.
 
Last edited:
chiefrocka4real said:
That´s what´s happening since PES 2012 (maybe even earlier), so not really a PES 2014 problem. So I´m fine with it.

I remember having that in PES 2012 and 2013 playing the MLO.
Specially in CL playoffs there were games where I had the feeling I´m not allowed to win them.
Players didn´t react well, passes went wrong, the ball simply didn´t wanna get in the goal, hit the post, they shot the ball far away from the goal and the CPU seemed to have advantages in positioning and ball physics.
I also tested that and played a few games over and over and it was always the same. I´ve narrowly won those matches with the 3rd or 4th attempt.

This year I haven´t really experienced this "cheat" that hard, but in PES 2012 and 2013 it was there.

It´s a controversial topic though as many peeps would say "don´t blame bad playing on the game, blame it on yourself".
Click to expand...

This has been present in PES since PS2 and earlier, just more pronounced in recent times for some reason. I remember sailing through ML in PES 4 etc and hitting a cup semi, or a final, and suddenly it was very artificially made to have everything go against you in that game.

The worst I've seen it was in PES 2013, on superstar. I full on raged at that game as people here know. I remember getting to the CL semi final quite easily then found myself 3-0 down inside ten minutes with some crazy stuff going on, like my defenders under my control automatically running away from the ball with me desperately wondering why they're moving in the opposite direction I wanted them to, blocking off Aguero with a defender only for him to pass through my defender's body and run on to score, and another goal saw the ball passing through my keeper's hands. No coincidence this stuff happened in the biggest games.

The challenge going forward is for Konami to create an AI that can beat you with passing and movement rather than raw cheating and momentary stat boosting. Collision detection is a massive issue still, even in PES2014 I remember a couple of goals that should have hit the outside of the post but went into the goal because the ball passed through the posts. That stuff has to be sorted out for sure.
 
Last edited:
BobbyBox said:
Why does anybody bother arguing with Zero anymore?! Every thread he goes into he starts an argument :LOL:

He loves to argue and is very rarely right, so just leave it at that :-D
Click to expand...

It's not the person that motivated me piping up - I'm all out of love for football games at the moment but I've had a couple of lurks lately and it didn't take long to reach the same conclusion as you.

But if somebody uses 'retarded' as a swear word of sorts, and in particular tries to backtrack and designate unintended context to it, he/she should be called out when it happens, as with racist or homophobic slurs. Of course 0 can carry on being wrong if he/she wants to - it's funny how important pride continues to be when posting behind pseudonyms to people who don't know or care who you are, and how people can think the last word is the right word. But, whereas people tend to be far nicer in real life than on the net, offensive use of words like 'retarded' (among others) tend to be used in one just as much as the other, when they aren't acceptable in either.

Apologies to the mods if this is off-topic; now that it's been called out for what it is I'm happy to get down off my soapbox, but it's a far more important topic than football games and such-like. As such I don't think it'd be the right message to avoid it or sweep it under the carpet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom