PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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henrys hand said:
I really love the on the pitch gameplay. The freedom in creating opportunities, the dribbling and passing is simply awesome.:APPLAUD:

If only the goalkeepers were a bit more competent at dealing with close range threats, and the defensive AI a bit more competent, this would be the best football game ever.
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Pretty much agree. Shooting lets the game down too in my opinion.
 
Shooting and goalkeepers. If those two things worked properly I'd still be playing PES2014. These two things critically undermine the good things the game does.
 
I think it's not just shooting. Everything that involve powers are lacking. I can think of several examples. Goalkeeper punt, even with low trajectory is barely past the halfway line. Crossing in set-pieces and open play are lacking power too. Previously you can kick the ball from corner kick situation straight to out of play. Now you have to apply R2 in order to get extra distance, which unfortunately make the ball floating.
 
Jamezinho said:
Shooting and goalkeepers. If those two things worked properly I'd still be playing PES2014. These two things critically undermine the good things the game does.
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nope, those are not main issues.

main issues are lack of fouls and free kicks, lack of proper AI defending, lack of weather conditions (at least they could've added rain).

then after all mentioned above, we can say goalkeepers. but not at all as top 2 issue.
 
Looking back at this generation from PES 2008-PES 2014. It hit me yesterday to give a summary of Konami's games.

After PES 2009 came out and in the run up to PES 2010, i think it was clear to Konami they had given up trying to seriously compete with EA on this generation, they knew full well their game was using inferior technology to EA and the time and resources and money needed to develop the game wasn't available. So this entire gen since then has been about experimentation, transition and development.

Everything since then has been pure gameplay development plus throwing up different ideas in offline modes, master league especially. Konami really haven't put much effort into the all round package since 2009, they have put effort into gameplay, a few new modes and have always left many areas of the game either untouched or woefully slacking.

Looking back at we almost need to group the games into two sections:

PES 2008-2010, these where using the old engine, the first two where essentially a complete waste of time, both did not advance any real gameplay functions at all, while PES 2009 was fun it left Konami with an absolute mountain to climb. PES 2010, was an improvement on the gameplay front, it was the first game to provide a good discrepancy between a top play and an average players first touch, dribbling and so on. It was clear the game was too restrictive in it's old state, things needed to change, hence PES 2011 revamped the old engine to provide more fluid football.

PES 2011 Was about placing PES on a canvas of freedom, introducing most importantly 360 dribbling and movement, L2 manual passing, a brand new tactics fluid system to break away from the generic script the AI or your team follows when playing. The game carried over the change in emphasis on first touch/ball control along with a bigger representation of individuality The game was rough around the edges, features some shocking animations at times, most importantly it did what it needed to do and did it well. This was the first important step to bring PES 2011 out of the rigid, heavily on rails 8 direction world.

PES 2012 Was about building on the responsiveness and trying to provide the next step in terms of freedom within creating slick passing moves, animations so players could interchange with eachoever as fluidly as possible, it was about bringing in new manual passing possibilities. At first it was very hit and miss with some big issues in regards to cheating, over patches and time these where sorted, despite the questionable but effective at times auto feint, the game advanced the vision created from PES 2011.

PES 2013 Was about refining Konami's vision on how to take into the next engine. Deeper player Individuality with stats and player ID, dynamic 1-2 passes providing more freedom to create, greater options in regards to shooting, manual shooting modifier, keepers while still having 60% crap animations bar a few positioning issues where finally, really good, they varied through stats and added to the drama in a realistic way. All this and general improvements to really tie the game together in a pure gameplay sense. This game's demo was released in July with very few bugs whatsoever, very similar in it's structure to PES 2012, it shows they really hit a ceiling with the engine, this game got the most out of it that was possible.

From PES 2011-13 the graphics, the depth in offline modes, the general razzmatazz of the game was inferior to even PES 2010 or arguably PES 2009 even, this showed more than ever looking back Konami knew they where beaten in terms of technology, graphical potential. Thinking about it, they could had bothered, but it still would had been regardless of effort massively inferior to EA. What was the point really when you consider the Fox engine was being developed and long ago, probably about 2010/2011 they had agreed to rebuild the game on a new engine, they thought they leave all that to later when the tech was there. Everything was about the gameplay.

PES 2014 Was a risk, it was about trying to get a basic version of PES 2013 with all the new engine functions going, brand new everything, built from scratch, animations physics, collisions, tricks, new player models and graphic engine, all in all in gameplay terms huge focus on things PES 2008-2013 could not do. They got there, just about but massively fucked up with the Heart function ruining all the offline modes. Plus responsiveness bugs which plagued keepers especially.

Going through each game from PES 2010-2014, you can see each game has made a key advancement in terms of gameplay, its almost like a puzzle, where different pieces have been completed each year. I'm not worried about PES's future at all because it's clear in this perspective, Konami know what to do and know what they are doing in their vision, the biggest issue instead is the hype each year and unfinished, unprofessional package as a whole and poor mistakes in areas off the field. Abuse is warranted for releasing something half finished, period! Overall however I see why Konami have done it, they needed to survive somehow, yes they have taken many for a ride essentially, we need to consider that if Konami had admitted that this gen was pure transition PES would of been long dead by now in terms of sales, and this team is very talented in it's coding to still be around when you consider there was little to no hope when you compared FIFA 09 to PES 2009.

When i say i want PES 2015 to be PES 2013 on the fox engine. Consider this! People who hated PES 2013 speak of the animations, (stumbling) wooden like players, direct AI, player collisions and ball physics, on the fox engine this will simply not be an issue whatsoever, then you add in the sheer depth of PES 2013 and there you have the next step in football gaming complete! PES 2015 will be about fitting all these pieces in the puzzle together. Only things I've not touched on which are needed in the puzzle are weather/wind conditions form PES5 and also the injury system which needs to be brought back from the PS2 games and advanced more.

The general perspective people keep going on about is this was a generation of 'what if' and much frustration. This generation for me from this perspective has been about survival. Bit like Everton almost, trying to get by with very little, i think people need to look at how well Konami have done to keep going, really after PES 2009 and looking at how strong FIFA 09 and 10 promised to be at least, Pro Evolution Soccer should of really been out of business by now. I think we as a community have been getting to dragged into the hype and have been kidding ourselves in regards to thinking PES would magically become amazing after a year. I've expected absolutely nothing for PES since 2008 and the things here and there the game has given me has impressed me.
 
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With the exception of weather conditions, which I really don't give a crap whether are there or not, I agree with you Madball. Lack of free kicks and penalties is annoying. The AI defending will be an issue to balance because most goals in real life is scored by defending mistakes, some minor and some major. Ideally it should be much more defender skill related where the good defenders generally didn't make many mistakes while the weaker ones stayed more or less at the current general level.

Defenders should also generally be more susceptible to wrong footing by quick and agile players but to counter this defending players should also offer sensible support and cover to engaging defenders. This will in turn create situations of imbalance in the defense which could be exploited. Defenders should never be "perfect" but the mistakes they actually do should be believable or "realistic" if you will. Same goes for keepers, really. I'm fine with keepers making mistakes, it's just the kind of mistakes that annoys me because they are generally blatant flukes in PES due to some extremely weird animations and/or reactions.

@Klashman
I want PES (or FIFA) to be more realistic on the pitch where player and AI contest each other on as equal grounds as possible. By that I mean for example that the referee judge the situation neutrally, not like it has been for a while where the AI can literally pounce your players around. I also want the cheaper solutions like defender catch up to be removed entirely, which would force the defense to be smarter in terms of compensating for lack of speed by taking out depth and such. This would also immediately force AI and human players who do 90 minutes massive counter attacking to reconsider their strategies towards a more "normal" play-style as their defenses would too frequently be wide open. I want the difficulty system removed entirely because a football game has a built in slider which is simply weaker and stronger teams/leagues. The diversity is infinite here, because the player can use a weaker or stronger team while the AI opponents will vary from weakest to strongest depending on schedule and tournaments.

I'm fairly sure many if not all have their idea on how to fix PES, but I honestly think it's quite simple. I'm at least happy that those idiotic RPG elements like magic boots and what not is gone, that nearly gave me an ulcer and a brain tumor at the same time. Ideally one of the games (FIFA and PES) should cater for the arcade/action "heavily glorified realism" people while the other ideally should be aimed at the other kind of players. Lately PES has moved towards being a FIFA spin-off and that troubles me. If they clearly and categorically aimed at different target groups there would be room for both. Many people would buy both to suit different moods and gaming situations.
 
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MadbaLL said:
nope, those are not main issues.

main issues are lack of fouls and free kicks, lack of proper AI defending, lack of weather conditions (at least they could've added rain).

then after all mentioned above, we can say goalkeepers. but not at all as top 2 issue.
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It's my opinion. So leave the nope out of it.
 
About the horrific defending.
Yes, i also scored lots of goals where i had to say that the defending was horribly bad.

On the other hand: most wonderfull goals come down to individual skill of the scorer or the team and collective bad defending of the other team....

When a player somebody likes scores; it's a wonder goal, when we don't like the player, it's bad defending.

Same goes for both football games.

I've seen bad defending in both.

And off-topic. Why is this sucha mess of thread with constant bickering ?

We know that suupertalk, rob, jamezinho and others don't like the game.
We also know that Klashmann, Zeemeister and others (i'm amongst them) do like it.
We keep onwriting this for 738 pages....

Seems a Bunuel movie...
 
Had another great 30 min match on top player, zero bar, manual shooting and gamespeed -1.

It's really an awesome game. A lot of things that I wished for during PES 2009-2013 are now implemented:

1. Playerswitching is way better!
2. The ball is a separate thing!
3. More freedom to choose the running path, ie. much reduced use of rails, or rather the use of it is not obstrusive anymore!
4. Dribbling feels real!
5. Players feel like athletes!

Even the logic of the goalkeeper is better:

When left alone with an opponent striker, he is horrendous, but when shadowing the opponent, disturbing him or reducing the angle of shot possibilities the goalkeeper becomes more reliable.

There is so many things that are great in PES 2014 that the little and bigger niggles are imho overshadowed.

It feels and plays like real football. It took me a few months, but now I love it and for me it's the best PES-game there ever was regarding on-the pitch gameplay.:KING:
 
Do you wanna know the secret sauce for every ML campaign? In every single PES?
QUIT the cup/CL/EL....Ive got the premierleague in my FIRST season as a relegating ManUN (starting from the championship with castolo and co) by simply losing on purpose the FA cup in 1st match...
Now at second season the machine cheating is in full force since im in CL semifinals and 1st in EPL and in FA cup final....
Reading in my 31st match day plays better than Barca in its prime. I was winning 2-0 to PSG in CL semi final and nearly lost. I snatched the victory by 2-1 in Old Trafford by simply passing the ball at the back to run out the clock.
I dare ANYONE to win a treble at this game and NOT reload a single time.
 
Agreed, trying to play a 5 yard pass with xavi is ridiculous. 1 bar is perfect for me. I believe konami should use it as default and abandon the pass and shot assistance. It should be stat based.
 
For me zero bar, gamespeed -1 and manual shooting on top player on xbox360, patch 1.04, but with all DLC's removed is for me the best setup.
 
zeemeister said:
Agreed, trying to play a 5 yard pass with xavi is ridiculous. 1 bar is perfect for me. I believe konami should use it as default and abandon the pass and shot assistance. It should be stat based.
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It's the way forward I think. One control system that offers the best compromise between freedom of control and stat influence, then tailor the game towards it.

Struggling over short passes on full manual with professional footballers isn't realistic, nor particularly fun or rewarding in my opinion. However it's nice to have a bit more input when playing the longer, more difficult balls.

PES emulating FIFA's various assist settings has been a big mistake. PES was built on stat-based gameplay, and loved because of it. Anything that moves away from that was always going to cause problems.
 
Thoroughly agree with Jamez and Zee on pass and shot assistance. The last PES I genuinely loved playing, and the last PES I played all the way until the release of the next one, was PES2011, probably not coincidentally the last time they had no assist bars at all.
 
I guess everyone has his own experiences. For me zero bar feels really fine and I don't struggle with it.
I moved down from 1 bar because the passes on 1 bar felt too repetitive and too laserguided. On zero bar there is imho more variety and more life.

I like zero bar.
 
I'd love to see the game use a mix between zero bar and one bar for PES2015, and have no other option to change it. That would be ideal.
 
Have I received a magical copy of PES 2014? I had an even more awesome 30 min match than before.

The opponent defender even received a direct red card for his foul. Never seen this before.

Then 10 mins later another foul happened by the CPU resulting in yellow and then 10 mins later that someone one fouled me heavily again, receiving yellow/red.

So two were out, and it was just awesome to watch how the CPU tries to deal with the situation.

This game is pure bliss for me at the moment. I love this game!

And I love the manual shooting, with it there is more zip and variety to it.

Konami has recreated nearly all aspects of real football and made it enjoyable. Imho it's the best PES game on the pitch ever.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
I'd love to see the game use a mix between zero bar and one bar for PES2015, and have no other option to change it. That would be ideal.
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And then comes that day when somebody breaks the 0/1 bar mixed game and the exploits within, and then we can't change to full manual to avoid that. PES 2013 was a game which on full manual has no exploits. Goalkeepers however are just as stupid as before.

Give us both manual and assisted and a ranking for manual players so that it is worth as much playing auto as manual online.
 
Games should go back to when you used to learn how to play them not this cater to all path they choose. It would add to the longevity
 
henrys hand said:
As long as it's zerobar-passing and manual shooting I won't complain.:))
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Unfortunately that is impossible,zero-bar passing and manual shooting is way too hardcore for the average gamer...
To be honest i can't wait to see what Konami can create on next gen hardware using Fox Engine(let's hope they can come close to those classic PES intros in terms of animations/hair+cloth physics).
PES 2014 is a brilliant game when everything works as it should.
I think most of the problems like player awarness,dumb A.I,bad GK should be fixed providing enough time and better hardware.Furthermore they can improve dribbling(PES 2014 feels a little bit one dimensional when it comes to dribbling) ,animations,player models,general physics,player individuality, etc.
 
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