PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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ZeroTheHero said:
A typical PC RPG before consoles completely polluted the gaming scene is Morrowind and look what Skyrim turned into... Dumbing down equals "fitted for casual gamers and simplified to run on consoles".

YouTube - The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down
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Ignorant post. Morrowind was the first Elder Scrolls developed for both Console and PC. And you know what ? It has sold much more on Xbox then PC. Try again.
 
Games are designed in a way to 'hold the player's hand' because they're targeted at a mass audience, even if that mass audience is on PC. The fact that a lot of games are on console doesn't mean anything, it's just the way they design it, to appeal to as wide an audience as they can. Sure, there are really tough, hardcore games out there but it's got nothing to do with consoles or PCs, just game design aimed at a lot of people.

No developer in their right mind is going to target a game at as wide an audience as possible then make it as inaccessible and hard as possible, even if it's a PC exclusive, so this whole consoles 'dumb down' argument doesn't hold up. Some developers make games to shift as many copies as they can, regardless of the platform, while others make stuff like Portal knowing it'll never be a best seller in the GTA sense of the word. It's got nothing to do with making it for certain crowds depending on the platform, as there are no stereotypes.

Crysis was a PC exclusive for years with cutting edge technology and that features regenerating health, hand-holding etc. by the same argument, the Playstation consoles have had some pretty hardcore games, from Final Fantasy to Dark/Demons Souls, which are crazy hard. And you know what, the public love those games. I'm not sure why, considering all console owners apparently want to just drift through an easy game with no depth to it......at least according to some.....

Sorry for the off-topic discussion. PES, however, is another good example of what I'm talking about. It began as a console only title yet still developed into the most realistic representation of the sport. Again, why did they bother if all us console owners just want shallow thrills?
 
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I get the impression that most makers just beaten to a new PES 2014, it is clear, the game has disappointed many, perhaps all are expected to PES 2015, if I'm wrong!?
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
We've had this discussion before, and I still don't agree with you I'm afraid. Games are more sophisticated now than they've ever been whether they're on console or PC. And if PC is the be all and end all of creativity then where are these magical PC exclusives that blow everything else out of the water? Why is it that consoles now have equal reputation for encouraging innovative indie games for example?

Console games aren't dumbed down at all, there had been a jump in recent times on storytelling and innovation IMO and I think it has never been a better time to be a gamer whether on PC or console. The facts are that, yes, an uber powerful PC probably could innovate in terms of creating deeper AI for example, no-one would dispute that, but companies generally don't bother because the market is so small in comparison. And that's not because console owners want a casual experience all the time, it's because of the fact that powerful PCs are expensive to assemble and maintain, and require a certain amount of almost hobbyist knowledge on the technical side of PCs, which a lot of people just aren't into. It's not always down to people dumbing down.

As for PES, I think PS4 and XB1 will be able to handle PES just fine, it's up to Konami to make good use of the technology.
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Console Games are only 'dumbed down' in so far as a game with a larger mainstream audience is typically forced to be developed to do things such as maintain or attract a bigger audience. I buy the other guy's point simply because it's as simple as saying 'the more popular a product is, the less risks it is willing to take' which is true by a rule of thumb. It is important to consider that it is not what happens in all cases. When a developer (i.e. Naughty Dog) gets a bunch of successful/crowd-pleasing games under its belt (i.e. Uncharted) then it is freer to take more risks because it has built its reputation already. That's when you get The Last of Us.

For me, as an owner of both console and PC, PC is inarguably the much more daring platform but why is that a surprise at all? You can build a game for nothing for PC if you so wish which tends to draw innovative independent game-makers to the table. Many of the renowned indie games on PS3 and XBLA were funded directly by Sony and Microsoft, which is not a complaint as those games would probably not have been made otherwise. Both are great in their own ways and both function in different ways.

Also, and getting back to PES, it seems silly to ever consider that PES should be PC-only. It simply wouldn't make enough profit to be worth developing; it's not because PC Men are pirates (they are, at least sometimes) but because the audience would be way too narrow as it currently stands. Calling for PES to adopt an approach where it utilises a more powerful platform (assuming PC to be that) just because it might be less dumbed-down or better technically is a hugely flawed idea for obvious reasons. Maybe in a world where people just used PCs but that's not going to happen any time soon.
 
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It's the "hand holding" factor that makes many contemporary games feel a little dumb. Go to this waypoint, do this, press this...it takes away much of the need for initiative and exploration by the player. Older games were more likely to leave the player to his own devices.

I totally understand why games guide the player through these days, but to those of use who grew up with the games of 20-25 years ago it can seem a little dumb.
 
Disregarding the title (which was probably made controversial on purpose), overall the article is a bit shallow, almost feels unfinished. I think while the author makes some valid points, he also oversimplifies things and arrives at wrong conclusions.
 
quaqua said:
Ignorant post. Morrowind was the first Elder Scrolls developed for both Console and PC. And you know what ? It has sold much more on Xbox then PC. Try again.
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Clearly you have no idea of what you talk about. Morrowind isn't a demanding game but it clearly already shows signs of being limited because of the console limitations. The world was a fraction of the previous game, the view distance and cells loaded was very slim but the writing and complexity of the quests were still good. That is because the game is made for an earlier generation of GAMERS. We didn't want nor need our hands held...

Clearly I touched upon a nerve here.. nobody wants to admit they like their hands held it seems.

At least you know why I think PES, FIFA and basically everything else under the sun sucks at the moment. Bread and circuses... It's working and this thread alone is enough proof.
 
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ZeroTheHero said:
Clearly you have no idea of what you talk about. Morrowind isn't a demanding game but it clearly already shows signs of being limited because of the console limitations. The world was a fraction of the previous game, the view distance and cells loaded was very slim but the writing and complexity of the quests were still good. That is because the game is made for an earlier generation of GAMERS. We didn't want nor need our hands held...

Clearly I touched upon a nerve here.. nobody wants to admit they like their hands held it seems.

At least you know why I think PES, FIFA and basically everything else under the sun sucks at the moment. Bread and circuses... It's working and this thread alone is enough proof.
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I agree with some things that you say, but you are coming across as a bit of a dick to be honest...

In your other posts mentioning Morrowind, it seems like you're regarding it as a quintessential PC game, when in fact it released on and apparently sold more on consoles.

This was likely what prompted quaqua to call your post ignorant.

The points you're making in response here have no relevance as a reply to his post.

ZeroTheHero said:
Would that make your life better?

This thread is fucking pathetic to read. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but for the love of GOD do you need to repeat it fifteen times a week?

You know what, I think Skyrim is a disaster of a game and I DON'T hang around a Skyrim forum making sure everyone knows and you know why? BECAUSE NOBODY FUCKING CARES!

/rant off
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You say this thread is pathetic to read because people repeat stuff (criticisms I take it) too often, yet you've brought up your "all gaming sucks these days" in two threads now in quick succession.

And you think Skyrim is a disaster of a game and won't go to a TES forum to make sure people know it because "NOBODY FUCKING CARES!", but you'll do exactly that on here on a PES forum...

I agree with you that games get dumbed down for consoles, both technically and in their approach to the user, but the way you go about discussing these things could be much better.

Apart from the topics to do with PES people have been bringing up and inevitably repeating since release, I don't really know what else you expect from here. As football (gaming) forums go, this is about the only one that's tolerable.

ZeroTheHero said:
PS4/XBOne is CURRENT GEN! Next Generation is something not yet on the market and at the moment we don't even know their names or intended specs. PS3 and XBOX360 is hereby Previous Generation. They were Current Generation from 2006/2005 until November 2013.

I don't get why this is so hard for some people...


PS. I get annoyed by these things... Where I live people also claim to wear "caps" and look stupidly at me when I ask them where the other one is. "Well, you said you needed to find your "caps" and you're only wearing one..."
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And this shit is unnecessary - it's petty semantics. The 360/PS3 still have a far greater install base than the XB1/PS4 and will continue to do so for probably at least 12 months. Until the latest consoles take over from the last in terms of numbers, many will still use the "next-gen" label and it's justified.

The "I don't get why this is so hard" does you no favours, it's a pointless conceited remark.
 
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Northzzz said:
Console Games are only 'dumbed down' in so far as a game with a larger mainstream audience is typically forced to be developed to do things such as maintain or attract a bigger audience. I buy the other guy's point simply because it's as simple as saying 'the more popular a product is, the less risks it is willing to take' which is true by a rule of thumb. It is important to consider that it is not what happens in all cases. When a developer (i.e. Naughty Dog) gets a bunch of successful/crowd-pleasing games under its belt (i.e. Uncharted) then it is freer to take more risks because it has built its reputation already. That's when you get The Last of Us.

For me, as an owner of both console and PC, PC is inarguably the much more daring platform but why is that a surprise at all? You can build a game for nothing for PC if you so wish which tends to draw innovative independent game-makers to the table. Many of the renowned indie games on PS3 and XBLA were funded directly by Sony and Microsoft, which is not a complaint as those games would probably not have been made otherwise. Both are great in their own ways and both function in different ways.

Also, and getting back to PES, it seems silly to ever consider that PES should be PC-only. It simply wouldn't make enough profit to be worth developing; it's not because PC Men are pirates (they are, at least sometimes) but because the audience would be way too narrow as it currently stands. Calling for PES to adopt an approach where it utilises a more powerful platform (assuming PC to be that) just because it might be less dumbed-down or better technically is a hugely flawed idea for obvious reasons. Maybe in a world where people just used PCs but that's not going to happen any time soon.
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The PC is no man's land.
EA abandoned it like on schedule.
So KONAMI is playing alone on the platform. It just needs 3 steps:
ZERO offline gameplay
ZERO same screen gameplay
10000 times better online
Basically release this:
http://weo2014.hangame.com/index.nhn
Then no pirate will ever bother it.
 
Jamezinho said:
No surprise there but the fall in sales is bigger than expected. 1.8m units is an absolutely huge fall.

If ever there was a wake up call this has to be it.
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Yet KONAMI continues to call that "steady sales" in their financial report
 
Well, I suppose 3.72m units in nine months isn't bad at all. Many developers can only dream of selling a game in that volume. But, 1.8m is staggering. It means sales are down approximately a third from the same period last year.

Any other business would panic at those kind of results.


From the article.

Just to compare, 0.21, 0.83, 0.40, 0.45 and 0.05 million, these numbers cover how much the sales were down by in the last five years during the same financial period.
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Jamezinho said:
Well, I suppose 3.72m units in nine months isn't bad at all. Many developers can only dream of selling a game in that volume. But, 1.8m is staggering. It means sales are down approximately a third from the same period last year.

Any other business would panic at those kind of results.


From the article.
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2 Mil less copies sold in one year is HUGE.If KONAMI fails to understand that, Pes is in serious trouble
 
Jamezinho said:
Did you read Suff's hint on the WENB forums about a third football IP in development?
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Yes.I sincerely hope it's something to compete with Fifa.The gaming football need it to improve. These years EA rested on their laurels because Pes struggled to be a valid competitor
 
hope that massive lost of sales opend konamis eyes...

i feel they give a singel shit about the Fanfeedback or surveys BUT maybe the lost of a few million dollars are eyeopening, i hope so :WORSHIP:
 
zeemeister said:
Btw 2% pc sales Looool they are such pirates
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Crazy, really. I'm playing the PC version (bought it, i'm that stupid.) and i have much fun with the game but honestly Konami should concentrate on consoles. 2% is unbelievable and not worth the resources they have to put in. They should spend this development time and manpower into consoles development. I guess the game would be better then.
 
Robbery said:
Crazy, really. I'm playing the PC version (bought it, i'm that stupid.) and i have much fun with the game but honestly Konami should concentrate on consoles. 2% is unbelievable and not worth the resources they have to put in. They should spend this development time and manpower into consoles development. I guess the game would be better then.
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I see where you're coming from, but it would be a massive shame if they stopping making it for PC. Besides, the architecture of the PS4 and XBO is pretty much based on PCs anyway so doing a version for that shouldn't take too much time.

But I do think that they are a seemingly small team who spread themselves too thin. In past years we've seen PES on consoles and PC, but also on 3DS, iPhone, PS2 (even PES2014 was released on PS2 recently) and Wii. That's surely a lot of manpower and resources right there?
 
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