PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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henrys hand said:
As long as it's zerobar-passing and manual shooting I won't complain.:))
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So the PES5/6 magic without the manual antifootball gamer style is impossibe?
the whole manual notion is beyond ridiculus in real life football...
So any developer that follows this is making a footy game for GAMERS that want to have 100% control.
Whats the difference between
ROBINHO
http://pesdb.net/pes2014/index.php?id=7104
and
DI NATALE
http://pesdb.net/pes2014/index.php?id=4598

On manual?
Di natale's finishing 95er wont be so profound on manual as on assisted.
Since I believe that there CAN be a great game on assisted like PES5/6 were...
Passing is even more profound passing monsters like Xavi/Pirlo wont get to shine as great on assisted as on manual.
 
henrys hand said:
As long as it's zerobar-passing and manual shooting I won't complain.:))
Click to expand...

Zero bar passing is what I play with. Manual shooting just doesn't feel right though and seems to need some tweeking. Feels like I can get more zip on manual shots but the area the analog stick provides for shots on target seems much too small and 90% of my efforts seem to miss the target completely. Could be the fault of the loose DS3 analog sticks though or my inability to point the stick in the right direction.
 
Vieirinha said:
So the PES5/6 magic without the manual antifootball gamer style is impossibe?
the whole manual notion is beyond ridiculus in real life football...
So any developer that follows this is making a footy game for GAMERS that want to have 100% control.
Whats the difference between
ROBINHO
http://pesdb.net/pes2014/index.php?id=7104
and
DI NATALE
http://pesdb.net/pes2014/index.php?id=4598

On manual?
Di natale's finishing 95er wont be so profound on manual as on assisted.
Since I believe that there CAN be a great game on assisted like PES5/6 were...
Passing is even more profound passing monsters like Xavi/Pirlo wont get to shine as great on assisted as on manual.
Click to expand...

I'm 100% with you on this.
 
Manual shooting and manual passing is imho great, but that doesn't mean I'm against individuality or against stats.

Far from it.

The ideal solution would be that manual control is possible, we as humans with the controller should be able to decide what pass or shot is being tried by the player under our control.

But and here stats and individuality should come into play: The successrate of that pass or shot, its finesse and precision, should depend on stats and individuality.

So when I try for example to shoot from far away with Messi with the outside foot, it should be done as decided by my input, but the stats and individuality should make that shot weak or misdirected because it's just not Messi's big strength to shoot from far away.
 
zeemeister said:
Try using the manual indicator till muscle memory takes over.
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Have to grip the L2 trigger for the arrow to appear I think, but I'll give it a try:TU:

This game has it's flaws but it feels so much more like football than the other brand. The weight of the players and the ball, the physics, the animations, the ebb and flow, and the cut and thrust of the game, the physicality, the kits and the player individuality are all so much better in my opinion. Playing full manual, normal game speed, professional difficulty with custom cam set to 6 zoom, 0 height and 8 angle is where it's at for me.
 
Agreed there's enough to keep me coming back but too much that annoys me at the same time . I hate when a game forces you to try the set ways of scoring and I feel PES2014s shortcomings on shooting causes these limitations.

So after a few games I need to switch off and pay something else
 
henrys hand said:
Manual shooting and manual passing is imho great, but that doesn't mean I'm against individuality or against stats.

Far from it.

The ideal solution would be that manual control is possible, we as humans with the controller should be able to decide what pass or shot is being tried by the player under our control.

But and here stats and individuality should come into play: The successrate of that pass or shot, its finesse and precision, should depend on stats and individuality.

So when I try for example to shoot from far away with Messi with the outside foot, it should be done as decided by my input, but the stats and individuality should make that shot weak or misdirected because it's just not Messi's big strength to shoot from far away.
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As I see it people want manual because of its INNACURACY due to the NOT 360 passing/shooting.
The gamepad sticks are the worst thing imaginable for accurate aiming.
And due to the fact that in real life football the passing accuracy is GREATLY lower than in footygames as well as player interceptions are MUCH MUCH more probable.
Soo people prefer manual and have this illusion of realism/simulation because a manual v manual match with its LOW percentage of succesful passes creates the illusion that approaches the real game better.
But this is a mere illusion. The reality would be that the accuracy of passes is reduced on CODE level ( not just in stats but what stats mean). Like the further the reciepient of the pass the greater the error margin.
However I would NEVER EVER sacrifice the stats and induviduality for a GAMING attitude.
 
The way I see it, passing or shooting stats are, or should be, based on a system that is as close to full manual as possible. Any type of assistance increases/skews that stat.
 
This time the ball targeting the object bit too much than any of previous series. Maybe that's why long range shooting always end up with the keeper collecting the ball with ease. Same as long passes which always find the player, rather than open space unless you're on full manual. Maybe that's where the lack of power in general coming from.
 
Vieirinha said:
As I see it people want manual because of its INNACURACY due to the NOT 360 passing/shooting.
The gamepad sticks are the worst thing imaginable for accurate aiming.
And due to the fact that in real life football the passing accuracy is GREATLY lower than in footygames as well as player interceptions are MUCH MUCH more probable.
Soo people prefer manual and have this illusion of realism/simulation because a manual v manual match with its LOW percentage of succesful passes creates the illusion that approaches the real game better.
But this is a mere illusion. The reality would be that the accuracy of passes is reduced on CODE level ( not just in stats but what stats mean). Like the further the reciepient of the pass the greater the error margin.
However I would NEVER EVER sacrifice the stats and induviduality for a GAMING attitude.
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Agreed with this but it's why I've enjoyed manual games over the years. There's a lot of aspects to football games that are really easy when compared with real-life and manual makes a more game-like challenge. People who play manual clearly do so because they want a greater challenge; a challenge which the default game-states don't allow for.

Whether passing, dribbling or shooting, players don't make enough mistakes in football games compared to their real-life counter-parts. It makes for a more fluid, enjoyable game experience but a less realistic one.

Passing, for example, could easily be dealt with by adding greater margins of inaccuracy for players with lower passing attributes utilising assisted controls with player input. It could be worked in with a) how quickly they are attempting to play the pass and in which direction b) how hard the player is kicking it (i.e. how long you hold pass for) and c) how long the pass is supposed to be (i.e. distance and then elevation). Currently, there doesn't seem to be anything like this and player passing stats seem to be unimportant. It might sound silly but it's almost as if I could imagine that the player's 'aim' is the least important aspect to it. As somebody else said, controller joysticks just aren't great for accuracy. As long as you're aiming in the right general direction then the game takes over. In fact, I'd be surprised if it didn't already work this way to start with, except that it doesn't play to the complex algorithm that my idea dictates.

Doesn't Fifa aim to do this? Or at least has the technology to do so which it only decides you can use if you want to use the slider? I'm sure I saw a video of a player shooting at goal and each result being different despite the same input feature. The better players had more accurate shots, the worse players had less accurate shots.

I like PES more of course but certain aspects of it haven't changed since the PSX. It's really basic in ways that, over the years, it could have done better to evolve naturally as part of the default game itself.
 
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So here's my little story today complete with rant.

Had a day off so I thought I'd catch up on some gaming, thinking further that I could really glean something from 2014 with my spare time. Updated the lot and started to play and had a horror match on the PS3 first up. It was an unresponsive mess, that I quit after half a match.

WARNING **At this point don't even think about telling me how to play PES, I'm in my 30s and have played the game since day one, getting through to Superstar on near enough all PES iterations and being competent on each. I've also written countless 'essays' on how to defend/shoot/play the game on here and on other forums over the years, and have always been a PES man**

Sooo....I tried the PC version, same thing, updated all the bells and whistles blah blah. First seconds of the game CPU scored a goal within a scenario that I couldn't even describe such was the incompetence of my defensive AI (don't give me heart/boots/fatigue etc etc etc bollocks, all FINE).

Okay...deep breaths...that's perhaps the ONE little glitch for the match, let's move on....

This was the second goal...

YouTube - PES 2014 frustrations

I could go on all day about my midfielder failing to track the runner; about the missed tackle by the defender that bounces straight into the path of the striker....about the defensive AI being so aloof to surroundings and about the slow down of my defender in relation to the sudden speed of the attacker.....about the way the keeper palms it in totally the wrong place, and then again about the total loss of control I had with the player, before not pressing ANYTHING, before he wellies it into his own net!!!!!

I COULD go on all day....but I'm not.

The fact is that this pile of shit is virtually unplayable if you play it long enough. Damn, I take that back; it took literally 40 seconds of gameplay for me to think it unplayable.

What has got me all of a fluster today too is reading some of the other forums, ie WENB, and some of the articles that is footing the blame of PES' failure squarely on the users shoulders for expecting too much.

As many have touched upon, I don't think there's a fanbase anywhere else in the world quite like Pro Evo's and what we have had to endure basically for an entire decade. I wouldn't even begin to calculate money spent across a multitude of platforms and time spent in trying to make the thing work over the years.

Oh I forgot to mention that I'm sorry for the slow replay, but in KONAMI's wisdom, evvverrytthiiing to do with replays is now sloooow.

So, we're in the year of our lord twenty fourteen, and we have precisely zero football games that I would deem as an accurate depiction of the beautiful game, combined with a package acceptable to a paying customer in relation to the times we now live in.

Ahh, I hear you say, 'but it does play a decent game every now and then', and yes, it may give you the odd bit of a joy occasionally. But essentially, there is far too much wrong with the game that I don't think even patches will fix.

And yes, I've played FIFA, and that's shit too.

I learned to love 2013...I worked with it, and by the millionth patch (and yes boy was that a journey too), at least I thought it completely playable, almost completely fair, and generally a great balance, a great game of football, and a fairly decent depiction of the game..IF you played it properly.

This seems several steps back. Yes it has introduced certain things, but not very well.

A core mechanic of any football game, the shooting, is absolutely terrible combined with some of the worst keepers I think I've ever seen.

I am literally praying to get through a game without 3 or 4 game breaking things raising their head.

So anyway, it may be back to 2013 for me on the PS3.

The saddest part is I'm getting to he stage where I really cannot be fked anymore. KONAMI have just worn me down and out. I don't even play that mess which is online, I'd be just happy with a working footy game offline. Is that too much to ask?

Quite where some of the magazine and industry ratings have gotten their 8s and 9s from for both football games is beyond me. If it was a toaster that didn't work, or a fridge that didn't cool, it would go straight back.

That's about it people. Just my two cents for the day. Go about your business.
 
Nice to see not everything is a diving header but how can anyone get past the crossing animation? It's like a toe poke. We shouldn't be wetting ourselves because of the occassional nice contextual animation when the simple and most commonly used animations look anything but natural. FFS Konami, get it right on PES 2015!
 
zeemeister said:
Love this little heading animation l. Gone are the days of a diving header on every opportunity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Olj8ELsz3g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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That's nice. There's some lovely little heading animations in this years PES. Feels good when you thump one with the head too, especially when using a closer camera view. That being said, there are a couple of limp dick animations too, particularly when trying to clear the ball from the box with the head.
 
ccshopland said:
So here's my little story today complete with rant.

Had a day off so I thought I'd catch up on some gaming, thinking further that I could really glean something from 2014 with my spare time. Updated the lot and started to play and had a horror match on the PS3 first up. It was an unresponsive mess, that I quit after half a match.


Sooo....I tried the PC version, same thing, updated all the bells and whistles blah blah. First seconds of the game CPU scored a goal within a scenario that I couldn't even describe such was the incompetence of my defensive AI.
Click to expand...

This is a compiled list of most of the frustrations players have encountered with this game and have posted rants on various forums:

Pes 2014 really made me angry like no game has ever done before.
Playing this game would raise anyone's stress level's.....even Yoda's could lose temper with this infuriating game.

PES 2014 takes cheating too far and is too obvious. The COM plays football, while player's team mates are just trying to pretend to win the COM team and failing miserably at it. It feels like the human player is not playing against 11 COM players, but also against his 10 traitors team mates that sabotaged his effort at any given time.

PES 2014 game design is an obnoxious design which emphasizes on more AI interference, more hand holding.. more the game trying to play the game than the user...

The game lacks the sort of freedom it used to have.. ball physics, player movement and control, player passing, player selection, even the flow of the game, the result.. everything basically is more on rails and decided by the scripting than the user.

Theres far too much of the game deciding the outcome of things rather than the user. They really need to remove the scripting...its like they are trying to make the match play out how they think it should. For example: " If we put a goal line scramble here, then have the player hit the post followed by a counter attack, which then leads to a goal at the other end they'll really enjoy this match..."

Also because it plays so a big role for you its also affecting the outcome by purposely playing bad for you and doing the wrong thing.. I noticed loads of instances playing against the AI where my control is hindered in some way to influence the outcome.. a player will lack response, a player will slow down, a player will stop running all by the control of the AI. Players running in a direction that makes them more likely to not get the ball, purposely bad anticipation.


Even Ball physics follow the same influence the outcome pattern.. favourable bounces that make no logical or physical sense but are purposeful to give a momentum and influence the outcome either in your favour or against it..


I don't mind losing the ball because I'm playing bad but the game mechanics feel like they're either unfinished and just poor or are trying to make the game harder. Konami should make the game harder by improving the comp AI, not through implementing
dodgy mechanics that result in players losing possession through no fault of their own. It just points to the fact they either didn't have time to finish the game or they just don't know how to so they just cheated and took the easy option. The scripting and AI sabotage and hindrance is off the scale. Player selection is on par with some of the worst pes ever made.The player selection seems to be fixed to influence the outcome, delaying a switch or purposely giving you the wrong player when it matters most.

1/ There is still something 'sticky' and rail-like about it, the way players move, run, turn, the way the ball decides where to go. It still doesn't feel properly 'free'. It also still feels governed more by odd background scripts rather than truly and exclusively by what you do with your controller.

Pathing to the ball and some actions are appalling. We are supposed to have freedom, it really doesn't feel like it - invisible force fields and rails are obvious and really annoying. You can sprint into a standing player and stop
dead. It's like hitting an invisible brick wall. When a dribblers turn a defender 360. The defender just trots around him on the outside like headless chicken or defenders were tippy tappy running ring-a-round the roses on a dribbler that is slowly changing direction. Nothing else can be done when this motion starts...

Too many collisions and physical encounters feel like the same end of 2 different magnets. What is up with interceptions in this game?! It's like there's a rule when you play online; "if there's an opposition player anywhere near the receivent of a pass, the opposition player will steal the pass". It's not just some times - it's every time! I really don't feel there's a place in this game for players who play possession football.

2/The AI players on the computers team, 98% of passes and headers find their mark, I don't mind my headers rarely find one of my players they 99% of the time come down in space away from my player and I am fine with this, but its the near 100% of the
computers teams heading that boils my brain, their headers alway find one of their team mates. Where X marks the spot where the ball is going to land or is being passed into, the players on the computer team move to close that ball. Yet the players on your team who are controlled by the AI the other 10 who are not under the players control don't do or act in the same manner - go to loose balls don't react act the same as the 11 under the AI control of the computer.

When the game decides you have to lose...you lose, and your team starts to do stupid crazy mistakes like defense line near mid field line when You tell the line to draw back...

3/ Don't forget the fact the A.I is so poor that for the CPU to be competitive it has to basically cheat you out of a game, player purposely slowing down as You chase a 50-50, every tackle you make the loose ball ends up right and the CPUs feet, when your keeper decides to save a shot he palms it straight to a CPU players feet for a easy tap in, CPU uses all the feints skills side steps and the rest almost all game even with the crap players, countless out stretched leg interceptions, constant climbing all over your players for headers by CPU players and what's a foul against the CPU like a block tackle is perfectly fine for them to do.

4/ YOUR players almost never do any/reasonable runs. if they even try, YOUR players are offside 90% of the time, even if you try for a cross almost from the corner flag(!) you sometimes get an offside, annoying.

Since YOUR players never do runs when you need them to you have to hit that two-button combination first all the time. that's all good BUT, as mentioned before, because of the bad button response there's no time to get one of your players to do a run AND have a pass completed because your instantly overrun by the computer opponent => activating runs is absolutely useless. annoying.

YOUR players never move towards the ball when being passed to; it's like passing to a lamp post but of course the computer A.I. is there to intercept in no time because he does move towards the ball instantly. annoying and unfair.

YOUR players also never position themselves intelligently where they should (but they stand around doing nothing alot!) in order to have at least more than zero options to pass to. in fact, passing to A.I. team mates is so unreliable and annoying that I even caught myself avoiding passing... in a football game... by PES....

YOUR players never try to score from a rebound. when a shot's been deflected by the keeper it should be the highest objective to try for a second shot. but usually YOUR players seem more keen to get back to their position than to go for that second shot. annoying. it was done so well in PES 2004, why not in this one?

YOU'll need at least two defenders whereas one single computer defender successfully defends against two or three of YOUR players all the time. unfair.

YOUR players are not only unable to push away an opponent using their body mass but if a light-weight striker runs into your bulky defender YOU get pushed out of the way sometimes for a few meters. if you try to push an opponent (actively using the right
analogue stick) they stumble and it's a foul all the time. unfair again.

Yes, all these annoyances only occur for MY team only. annoying and unfair.

5/ Awareness. You can get away with a lot more playing with assists, but I'd say 40% of manual passes the players don't have a clue. They just let the ball roll inches past them either looking at it or running away from it... while you've selected them! Tends to happen more near the touch lines. Your defenders deliberately stepping over a passed ball aka Pes13. Why? Just why?

6/ The physical game. What physical game? Seriously. You can sprint into a standing player and stop dead. It's like hitting a brick wall. Challenging from headers is pathetic - this is how it was in games back on the PS1.

Tackling. What is this slow motion upper body leaning back, lower body sticking a lazy foot out... then standing there admiring your tackle attempt.


7/ Player collisions are bad. I've seen tons of glitchy moments involving player postures with their feet firmly planted, but the cpu moves them 3ft across the turf. Shows how unfinished parts of this game really is.
(It's all canned animation too. There was a lot of talk about the new physics by Konami this year), but they're exactly like they've always been just animated differently. In some cases worse, like the slow motion 'stun' players like going into a trance after getting tackled, bumped, or even after a ball deflects off them. Players doing the same dive head over heels no matter what angle they get slid at from.

The jostling isn't great. They either fall over for a FK, lose the ball or go into the 'new' stumble animation. Same canned animation each time. Where is the unique physicality between small and agile vs big and strong.
Too many collisions and physical encounters feel like the same end of 2 different magnets.


8/ The scripting has increased which has created a very 1 dimensional AI that pretty much every team plays the same way and uses the same move over and over, that in a desperation to make it challenging even hinder your players to the point they wont even respond to your controls to make it easier for the AI.

9/ The ball physics has also been tinkered with to give it an unnatural helpful bounce to the AI. The momentum system they have in play is a tad weird.
It seems that the momentum system just makes the ball drop to the opposition. Defying the laws of physics,

10/ You can see their goals coming a mile off as they will suddenly bounce and rebound and just push and pass their way thru your players as if they didnt exist.

11/ The referees are blatantly infavour of the AI. The computer tackle you is absolutely ridiculous it seems they can tackle you from every single angle and not concede a foul alot of the time they dont even stick a foot in merely just smudge next to you and somehow have to ball.

CPU cheating barging into You every time; big problem I've noticed is that the refs don't give enough fouls for obstruction and clumsy defending. It's frustrating when you work the right stick to nick the ball away from the defender, and he just blatantly blocks you off, or clatters into you at high speed knocking you over. A lot of teams idea of defending seems to be to just charge straight into you as fast as they can with as many players as they can, sometimes the charge is so cheatingly brutal that they carry your player with them for a quarter of the field length... in real life they'd be giving away fouls every 5 seconds. So many fouls, obstructions aren't called as free kicks even though they stop your player getting a break with the ball. Feels really unfinished.

12/ The unresponsive input you are having against the CPU, it's clear that the extreme sluggishness has been deliberately programmed into the game itself. Quite why, in 2013, Konami should have decided to produce the world's first turn-based football game. If I wanted to play Metal Gear Solid 5, I would buy it. After 6 hours fighting with players who are as mobile as a cross channel ferry, I have forearms the size of Hulk Hogan and curse like a sailor. Random, crash, bang, wallop is all very good but I want to play football not Tekken 12.

Every player feels like hes skating on ice, don't feel in control of the ball , turns are slow and laboured and they will take additional touches that are not needed (these are pro players and all have decent ball control for god sake). Defender response - players stand like idiots without performing the easy tasks like collecting the free loose ball.

Your players make mistake after mistake, the game forces me to forgive, to make up excuses like i do a perfect pass and AI ruins it, I wait for the right player to do a run in and AI ruins the play... almost every single time i struggle against poor AI and the way my players behave...for example I'm shooting to goal and my own teammate blocks the ball ( it happens allot ).

Why does the game think I always feel like passing the ball to opponent strikers?! They're NOT on my team ffs!! Why would every other pass I make, be directly into their feet?! It's insane!


13/ The simplest pass now has to be booked several days in advance. Super cancel is redundant, as it only comes into effect after the player has performed the action you wanted to cancel. One-touch play is possible, providing you mash the pass button and hope your players happen to be in the right place to collect the ball. Scoring from crosses is a no-no, as attackers - in every single instance I have encountered thus far - are required to chest the ball before shooting or heading. On numerous occasions, I have pressed and released the pass or clearance button, only to watch as my player continues to run along with the ball - with the pass gauge still lit up - for quite literally a quarter of the length of the pitch, before being summarily tackled. I have lost count of the number of times I have passed the ball to one of my players, only to watch as he inexplicably turns and hoofs it into row Z under no pressure at all, with me given no opportunity to control him. In short, the game is unplayable. At no time to I feel genuinely in control of proceedings, and when I have managed to score, usually from a rebound, it has felt strangely unsatisfying, almost as if the goal were scored by default. I never know what my contribution is.

14/ Broken player selection:
Impossible to select a player because he would be the best option, so the button just fails to respond instead,
players purposely letting the attackers thru..Player switching – whether I set it to semi assisted or manual the player switching was erratic. At one point I didn’t know who I was controlling.
The game seemed to be bunched in the middle of the park. I tried to spread it wide but no joy. It’s as if the AI wanted it all played in the middle.


15/ Problem with through balls is the comp AI tries forcing your player to make a bad run to the point where the ball hit's the deck while it makes the defending AI run to the best point to intercept the ball in the air.
When you make a perfect through ball, 90% of the time the AI will make your player run in to a bad position. The amount of times I'm having to hit (and hold down) super cancel due to retarded computer AI forcing my players to make bad runs is crazy.

16/ Your players dont jump for the ball.

17/ The game seemed to be bunched in the middle of the park. I tried to spread it wide but no joy. It’s as if the AI wanted it all played in the middle.

18/ what's with the 'offside' detection? watching an offside replay and you'll constantly see striker and defender standing on the exact same line: offside! annoying.

19/ The difficulty level: here's what SHOULD happen if I tweak up the difficulty level: the computer A.I. should try for more accurate runs, the computer A.I. should defend more solidly, the computer A.I. should improve on tactics, the computer keeper A.I. should do impossible saves more often, the computer A.I. should generally get more challenging - what actually happens: YOUR players are even worse than they were before! now they are like brain-dead on valium, moving like turtles in quicksand, unable to get a single pass, shot or tackle completed. fun-breaking, annoying, unfair!

CONCLUSION:

PES 2014 game malicious and obnoxious design is again very inventive in punishing, curtailing, crippling or otherwise putting the human player at a disadvantage just so the computer can hold up: You play against the scripts, against the overpowered, over-agile, over-savant, stats-ignoring, fully-stamina'ed computer controlled AI, against the stupidity and inability of your own handicapped players, who show no sense of awareness, urgency or will power, against the bias referees, the constant offsides – It's a MASTERPIECE in showing how programmers can screw the human player over and over again. When the game decides you have to lose...you lose. Is this good game design at the benefit of the consumers-players?
 
i applaud the time and effort that has gone into that post.

it's correct in many ways, only thing i can say to you is try to understand why things happen rather than go apeshit just because things are happening badly. It wont make the game better at all, but it will reduce your frustration and anger.

Its a first attempt on a new engine, everything made from scratch. The last thing you can do before chucking this game away is try to play the game without expecting it to be perfect, or even play as well as previous versions.

I know the game is terrible because of the Heart function which causes most of your annoyance
 
as far as i understand heart now works as arrows were for pes 2013 for player performance. on the other hand the form arrows now play part more to how quickly players are getting fatigued. at least in online matches. not sure vs cpu i havent played for months i have to test it.

ps i guess manchester united this year serves as a perfect example of how konami wanted to implement heart
 
No, its worse, heart is like an extended version of the 'responsiveness' stat. Any setting lower than red renders players into retard mode.

it can work, but it needs time and its implementation is horrific here since the game isn't responsive enough to show it.
 
My humble update ...

Played PES 2014 from September to November, Got frustrated with the flaws of the game day in day out, Broke the disc, bought the game back again, shared my disc breaking experience with evo web, received plenty of insults from Die Hard PES Fans, left the forum, stopped playing PES 2014.

On Christmas day, went on and bought FIFA 14, frustrated on the first week of playing due to the transition from the so called "Great gameplay" to the so called "Football on ice gameplay". Played around with some sliders and controller settings and everything just clicked perfectly. I have never been happier since PES 2O11 with a football game. I literally can't wait to go play FIFA after work everyday.

It might not have the tempo of PES, the soul of PES, the goal scoring feeling of PES (PES 2014 excluded), but it is enjoyable in its own way and has plenty of features (game mode) to chose from that no other game cannot rivaled.

I was so blind, now I have opened my eyes and find a way to enjoy the beautiful game again. I decided to comeback on the forum today only to find out that they are still "PES 2014 frustrations" topics. My advise is: if you can't stand PES 2014 flaws this year, either move on with your life or join the other side of millions. I am happy to have done so.


Best wishes to those who enjoy Pro Evolution Soccer 2014! Keep the King Alive! (so we might comeback :D)

To close my humble opinion:

Football...It hurts and humbles.

For every winner a loser; for every triumph, a defeat.

But on the horizon awaits... a new season, a new opportunity; for redemption, for glory, for immortality. The brave will take to the pitch as warriors to battle; shoulder-to-shoulder, face-to-face. The hunger, the determination to push limits, to fight, to run, to tackle, defend, attack, score, and celebrate.

As the new season dawns, new stars will rise, new teams will captivate, new stadiums will rock, new challenges will emerge, new battles will be fought, in the name of glory, in the name of honour, in the name of football, the game we love, the game we live for, every challenge, every cheer, every minute, every second, the best game, our game!
 
klashman69 said:
No, its worse, heart is like an extended version of the 'responsiveness' stat. Any setting lower than red renders players into retard mode.

it can work, but it needs time and its implementation is horrific here since the game isn't responsive enough to show it.
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yea thats true low heart means less responsiveness, however online thats not the case klash. game plays pretty well and players dont make so many mistakes. konami made a big mistake in offline modes and the implemendation of heart is not what was advertised. the problem offline is that all your players (the whole team) get the same heart stat which mess the gameplay up if its on low whilst online for example in mlo only 3-4 players have low heart which is how it was supposed to be i guess
 
@Zee

I have more respect for your PES love as always.

I had to totally forget everything I love about PES in the other game to really enjoy it. I just hope one day I'll comeback to PES and pick up where I left of. It just a shame this isn't the year.

I have heard they made some changes on FIFA 14 PS4 or couldn't recreate/port everything from PS3 so I can't really say much about PS4. But my journey has been good so far.
 
princo45 said:
This is a compiled list of most of the frustrations players have encountered with this game and have posted rants on various forums:

Pes 2014 really made me angry like no game has ever done before.
Playing this game would raise anyone's stress level's.....even Yoda's could lose temper with this infuriating game.

PES 2014 takes cheating too far and is too obvious. The COM plays football, while player's team mates are just trying to pretend to win the COM team and failing miserably at it. It feels like the human player is not playing against 11 COM players, but also against his 10 traitors team mates that sabotaged his effort at any given time.

PES 2014 game design is an obnoxious design which emphasizes on more AI interference, more hand holding.. more the game trying to play the game than the user...

The game lacks the sort of freedom it used to have.. ball physics, player movement and control, player passing, player selection, even the flow of the game, the result.. everything basically is more on rails and decided by the scripting than the user.

Theres far too much of the game deciding the outcome of things rather than the user. They really need to remove the scripting...its like they are trying to make the match play out how they think it should. For example: " If we put a goal line scramble here, then have the player hit the post followed by a counter attack, which then leads to a goal at the other end they'll really enjoy this match..."

Also because it plays so a big role for you its also affecting the outcome by purposely playing bad for you and doing the wrong thing.. I noticed loads of instances playing against the AI where my control is hindered in some way to influence the outcome.. a player will lack response, a player will slow down, a player will stop running all by the control of the AI. Players running in a direction that makes them more likely to not get the ball, purposely bad anticipation.


Even Ball physics follow the same influence the outcome pattern.. favourable bounces that make no logical or physical sense but are purposeful to give a momentum and influence the outcome either in your favour or against it..


I don't mind losing the ball because I'm playing bad but the game mechanics feel like they're either unfinished and just poor or are trying to make the game harder. Konami should make the game harder by improving the comp AI, not through implementing
dodgy mechanics that result in players losing possession through no fault of their own. It just points to the fact they either didn't have time to finish the game or they just don't know how to so they just cheated and took the easy option. The scripting and AI sabotage and hindrance is off the scale. Player selection is on par with some of the worst pes ever made.The player selection seems to be fixed to influence the outcome, delaying a switch or purposely giving you the wrong player when it matters most.

1/ There is still something 'sticky' and rail-like about it, the way players move, run, turn, the way the ball decides where to go. It still doesn't feel properly 'free'. It also still feels governed more by odd background scripts rather than truly and exclusively by what you do with your controller.

Pathing to the ball and some actions are appalling. We are supposed to have freedom, it really doesn't feel like it - invisible force fields and rails are obvious and really annoying. You can sprint into a standing player and stop
dead. It's like hitting an invisible brick wall. When a dribblers turn a defender 360. The defender just trots around him on the outside like headless chicken or defenders were tippy tappy running ring-a-round the roses on a dribbler that is slowly changing direction. Nothing else can be done when this motion starts...

Too many collisions and physical encounters feel like the same end of 2 different magnets. What is up with interceptions in this game?! It's like there's a rule when you play online; "if there's an opposition player anywhere near the receivent of a pass, the opposition player will steal the pass". It's not just some times - it's every time! I really don't feel there's a place in this game for players who play possession football.

2/The AI players on the computers team, 98% of passes and headers find their mark, I don't mind my headers rarely find one of my players they 99% of the time come down in space away from my player and I am fine with this, but its the near 100% of the
computers teams heading that boils my brain, their headers alway find one of their team mates. Where X marks the spot where the ball is going to land or is being passed into, the players on the computer team move to close that ball. Yet the players on your team who are controlled by the AI the other 10 who are not under the players control don't do or act in the same manner - go to loose balls don't react act the same as the 11 under the AI control of the computer.

When the game decides you have to lose...you lose, and your team starts to do stupid crazy mistakes like defense line near mid field line when You tell the line to draw back...

3/ Don't forget the fact the A.I is so poor that for the CPU to be competitive it has to basically cheat you out of a game, player purposely slowing down as You chase a 50-50, every tackle you make the loose ball ends up right and the CPUs feet, when your keeper decides to save a shot he palms it straight to a CPU players feet for a easy tap in, CPU uses all the feints skills side steps and the rest almost all game even with the crap players, countless out stretched leg interceptions, constant climbing all over your players for headers by CPU players and what's a foul against the CPU like a block tackle is perfectly fine for them to do.

4/ YOUR players almost never do any/reasonable runs. if they even try, YOUR players are offside 90% of the time, even if you try for a cross almost from the corner flag(!) you sometimes get an offside, annoying.

Since YOUR players never do runs when you need them to you have to hit that two-button combination first all the time. that's all good BUT, as mentioned before, because of the bad button response there's no time to get one of your players to do a run AND have a pass completed because your instantly overrun by the computer opponent => activating runs is absolutely useless. annoying.

YOUR players never move towards the ball when being passed to; it's like passing to a lamp post but of course the computer A.I. is there to intercept in no time because he does move towards the ball instantly. annoying and unfair.

YOUR players also never position themselves intelligently where they should (but they stand around doing nothing alot!) in order to have at least more than zero options to pass to. in fact, passing to A.I. team mates is so unreliable and annoying that I even caught myself avoiding passing... in a football game... by PES....

YOUR players never try to score from a rebound. when a shot's been deflected by the keeper it should be the highest objective to try for a second shot. but usually YOUR players seem more keen to get back to their position than to go for that second shot. annoying. it was done so well in PES 2004, why not in this one?

YOU'll need at least two defenders whereas one single computer defender successfully defends against two or three of YOUR players all the time. unfair.

YOUR players are not only unable to push away an opponent using their body mass but if a light-weight striker runs into your bulky defender YOU get pushed out of the way sometimes for a few meters. if you try to push an opponent (actively using the right
analogue stick) they stumble and it's a foul all the time. unfair again.

Yes, all these annoyances only occur for MY team only. annoying and unfair.

5/ Awareness. You can get away with a lot more playing with assists, but I'd say 40% of manual passes the players don't have a clue. They just let the ball roll inches past them either looking at it or running away from it... while you've selected them! Tends to happen more near the touch lines. Your defenders deliberately stepping over a passed ball aka Pes13. Why? Just why?

6/ The physical game. What physical game? Seriously. You can sprint into a standing player and stop dead. It's like hitting a brick wall. Challenging from headers is pathetic - this is how it was in games back on the PS1.

Tackling. What is this slow motion upper body leaning back, lower body sticking a lazy foot out... then standing there admiring your tackle attempt.


7/ Player collisions are bad. I've seen tons of glitchy moments involving player postures with their feet firmly planted, but the cpu moves them 3ft across the turf. Shows how unfinished parts of this game really is.
(It's all canned animation too. There was a lot of talk about the new physics by Konami this year), but they're exactly like they've always been just animated differently. In some cases worse, like the slow motion 'stun' players like going into a trance after getting tackled, bumped, or even after a ball deflects off them. Players doing the same dive head over heels no matter what angle they get slid at from.

The jostling isn't great. They either fall over for a FK, lose the ball or go into the 'new' stumble animation. Same canned animation each time. Where is the unique physicality between small and agile vs big and strong.
Too many collisions and physical encounters feel like the same end of 2 different magnets.


8/ The scripting has increased which has created a very 1 dimensional AI that pretty much every team plays the same way and uses the same move over and over, that in a desperation to make it challenging even hinder your players to the point they wont even respond to your controls to make it easier for the AI.

9/ The ball physics has also been tinkered with to give it an unnatural helpful bounce to the AI. The momentum system they have in play is a tad weird.
It seems that the momentum system just makes the ball drop to the opposition. Defying the laws of physics,

10/ You can see their goals coming a mile off as they will suddenly bounce and rebound and just push and pass their way thru your players as if they didnt exist.

11/ The referees are blatantly infavour of the AI. The computer tackle you is absolutely ridiculous it seems they can tackle you from every single angle and not concede a foul alot of the time they dont even stick a foot in merely just smudge next to you and somehow have to ball.

CPU cheating barging into You every time; big problem I've noticed is that the refs don't give enough fouls for obstruction and clumsy defending. It's frustrating when you work the right stick to nick the ball away from the defender, and he just blatantly blocks you off, or clatters into you at high speed knocking you over. A lot of teams idea of defending seems to be to just charge straight into you as fast as they can with as many players as they can, sometimes the charge is so cheatingly brutal that they carry your player with them for a quarter of the field length... in real life they'd be giving away fouls every 5 seconds. So many fouls, obstructions aren't called as free kicks even though they stop your player getting a break with the ball. Feels really unfinished.

12/ The unresponsive input you are having against the CPU, it's clear that the extreme sluggishness has been deliberately programmed into the game itself. Quite why, in 2013, Konami should have decided to produce the world's first turn-based football game. If I wanted to play Metal Gear Solid 5, I would buy it. After 6 hours fighting with players who are as mobile as a cross channel ferry, I have forearms the size of Hulk Hogan and curse like a sailor. Random, crash, bang, wallop is all very good but I want to play football not Tekken 12.

Every player feels like hes skating on ice, don't feel in control of the ball , turns are slow and laboured and they will take additional touches that are not needed (these are pro players and all have decent ball control for god sake). Defender response - players stand like idiots without performing the easy tasks like collecting the free loose ball.

Your players make mistake after mistake, the game forces me to forgive, to make up excuses like i do a perfect pass and AI ruins it, I wait for the right player to do a run in and AI ruins the play... almost every single time i struggle against poor AI and the way my players behave...for example I'm shooting to goal and my own teammate blocks the ball ( it happens allot ).

Why does the game think I always feel like passing the ball to opponent strikers?! They're NOT on my team ffs!! Why would every other pass I make, be directly into their feet?! It's insane!


13/ The simplest pass now has to be booked several days in advance. Super cancel is redundant, as it only comes into effect after the player has performed the action you wanted to cancel. One-touch play is possible, providing you mash the pass button and hope your players happen to be in the right place to collect the ball. Scoring from crosses is a no-no, as attackers - in every single instance I have encountered thus far - are required to chest the ball before shooting or heading. On numerous occasions, I have pressed and released the pass or clearance button, only to watch as my player continues to run along with the ball - with the pass gauge still lit up - for quite literally a quarter of the length of the pitch, before being summarily tackled. I have lost count of the number of times I have passed the ball to one of my players, only to watch as he inexplicably turns and hoofs it into row Z under no pressure at all, with me given no opportunity to control him. In short, the game is unplayable. At no time to I feel genuinely in control of proceedings, and when I have managed to score, usually from a rebound, it has felt strangely unsatisfying, almost as if the goal were scored by default. I never know what my contribution is.

14/ Broken player selection:
Impossible to select a player because he would be the best option, so the button just fails to respond instead,
players purposely letting the attackers thru..Player switching – whether I set it to semi assisted or manual the player switching was erratic. At one point I didn’t know who I was controlling.
The game seemed to be bunched in the middle of the park. I tried to spread it wide but no joy. It’s as if the AI wanted it all played in the middle.


15/ Problem with through balls is the comp AI tries forcing your player to make a bad run to the point where the ball hit's the deck while it makes the defending AI run to the best point to intercept the ball in the air.
When you make a perfect through ball, 90% of the time the AI will make your player run in to a bad position. The amount of times I'm having to hit (and hold down) super cancel due to retarded computer AI forcing my players to make bad runs is crazy.

16/ Your players dont jump for the ball.

17/ The game seemed to be bunched in the middle of the park. I tried to spread it wide but no joy. It’s as if the AI wanted it all played in the middle.

18/ what's with the 'offside' detection? watching an offside replay and you'll constantly see striker and defender standing on the exact same line: offside! annoying.

19/ The difficulty level: here's what SHOULD happen if I tweak up the difficulty level: the computer A.I. should try for more accurate runs, the computer A.I. should defend more solidly, the computer A.I. should improve on tactics, the computer keeper A.I. should do impossible saves more often, the computer A.I. should generally get more challenging - what actually happens: YOUR players are even worse than they were before! now they are like brain-dead on valium, moving like turtles in quicksand, unable to get a single pass, shot or tackle completed. fun-breaking, annoying, unfair!

CONCLUSION:

PES 2014 game malicious and obnoxious design is again very inventive in punishing, curtailing, crippling or otherwise putting the human player at a disadvantage just so the computer can hold up: You play against the scripts, against the overpowered, over-agile, over-savant, stats-ignoring, fully-stamina'ed computer controlled AI, against the stupidity and inability of your own handicapped players, who show no sense of awareness, urgency or will power, against the bias referees, the constant offsides – It's a MASTERPIECE in showing how programmers can screw the human player over and over again. When the game decides you have to lose...you lose. Is this good game design at the benefit of the consumers-players?
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Could you make an index to your post, please? :P
 
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