PES 2014 Discussion Thread

[Jamezinho]

It will be on the Xbox One. Not even Konami are that stupid.

 

[Kunio_Kun]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/09/pes-2015-confirmed-for-ps4

 

[NikoLiberty4]

It will be on the Xbox One. Not even Konami are that stupid.

How many PES copies were sold on Xbox 360 during this gen? It would be interesting to know the difference compared to the amount of PS3 copies. I know it's big, but how big?

 

[klashman69]

Brilliant post Niko, agree 100% People ask for realism they can't handle.

The biggest issue i think is people not knowing what the hell they want! We need to create a thread on this, a survey, What do YOU want from a football game in it's gameplay, how much realism can you handle and where do you expect to see it?

Give me an example please..

The best example is the people who moaned about cheating last year in PES 2013. Here i'm speaking about PES 2011-2013 mainly, excluding 2014 since this is the route Konami will go down.

None of these people ever bother to explore the game tactically, or explore all of the features they could possibly use, or try to play in a different style and study the opposition and exploit their own weaknesses. Just like Niko said. The game throws up a challenge where teams sit deep plying 'Long Ball' and the best effective way to beat them using strong team is to try pin them in their own half, isolate their attacking outlets and pummel them. With an evenly matched team try mirror their tactic so they don't catch you out, tweak it to suit your players and play patiently to try and crack them. You defence will be deep also so they can't play balls in behind.

People moaned, they said the AI was cheating! People just weren't smart enough to work out how to beat the AI. They expect to win playing in a certain style.

A bigger aspect also we saw in PES 2011, and in 2103 is lesser players turning slower or not as smoothly, they expect like in the PS2 days to have absolute control no matter the players stats and play possession football all the time. They don't learn how to play with lesser players effectively and use them to their strengths.

The biggest thing for me is defensive organisation and formations. People just cannot be bothered to study their players and work out what the best defensive setup is available. They think only about attacking with no defensive/attacking balance to their midfield. many people that simply because they use contain and jockey it makes them a good defender, 'Pressure is cheap' they don't think about how the CPU will attack, what the CPU best players are and their weaknesses and the best method to defend with their own individuals.

Time after time i have learned i will lose and continually lose unless i set my team up properly, lose in the same way people usually do and cry cheating from the AI (only take a few shots and win while sitting back while i have all the possession and miss). Never once looking to learn from their own mistakes. Its the mentality we see today. People are arrogant and don't want to learn.

 

[Honome]

Finally! If they had done it for the last generation we would have much better PES2013 and PES2014! One console is the way to go!

They should also kill the PC version as well...

 

[zlac]

How many PES copies were sold on Xbox 360 during this gen? It would be interesting to know the difference compared to the amount of PS3 copies. I know it's big, but how big?

http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/meeting/2013/0509_517714.pdf page 7

Doesn't mention PES copies directly, it's sales mix for entire Konami videogames - 3-to-1 in favor of PS3. Could be similar for PES sales figures only.
Three times smaller or not, Xbox audience is still very large player base for Konami. More than 10 times bigger than e.g. legit PC player base ...

Finally! If they had done it for the last generation we would have much better PES2013 and PES2014! One console is the way to go!

They should also kill the PC version as well...

Bunch of angry ninjas coming in your direction

 

[klashman69]

If Konami listens to feedback at all they must be listening to different people every time the lend an ear to the community then. Either that or they listen to ambivalent kids who doesn't really know what they want. I honestly think that the best strategy Konami could have is to be exactly the opposite of FIFA. Let FIFA cater to the fast paced arcade gamer, and let PES be the "thinking man's" football game.

Not saying one would be "better" than the other, I would definitely keep both for different occasions then. What's "best" is what suits your preference, in the end.

For me Konami need to start off on the Next Gen by rebuilding PES 2013 gameplay in this new Fox engine in full with a few extra bits (combination play, a few new stats, weather effects and injuries). I can see this is their intention, but they only got about 40% done this year.

Like in my feedback, they need to first and most importantly get the responsiveness sorted and working, then much development is needed on the shooting and passing functions to get it back to where it was, along with the dribbling, this can and should be done since the tactical side of the game seems to be done at least. No need to worry about animations anymore with this engine unlike with PES 2013.

 

[Jamezinho]

How many PES copies were sold on Xbox 360 during this gen? It would be interesting to know the difference compared to the amount of PS3 copies. I know it's big, but how big?

Enough to make it worthwhile. Also the architecture of the consoles is closer than ever.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

So now it's a case of 'if anyone doesn't like the game then it's because they can't handle the realism'.

Blimey. If this thread gets any more 'superior' then the mods may as well stick a giant picture of a crown at the top of the page.

 

[klashman69]

So now it's a case of 'if anyone doesn't like the game then it's because they can't handle the realism'.

Blimey. If this thread gets any more 'superior' then the mods may as well stick a giant picture of a crown at the top of the page.

Supertalk, sorry i'm starting to think you don't read things properly at all. I really do. This discussion is an evaluation of the problems we have seen over this generation. My post isn't even regarding PES 2014, it's 2011-2013 from my post. It's citing a general problem.

This is getting ridiculous now. It's like we have to constancy be negative about PES 2014 to be accepted here.

Nothing else must be discussed. we must continue to bash PES 2014 and nothing else. funny thing is this conversation started with a great point regarding PES5/WE9 as an example, a great example of what we have seen over this generation. Too many fouls back then. people moaned and not since the PES 2011 demo have we seen as many fouls since. With modded tactics on PES 2013 you can get matches with tons of fouls and a few sending off, sometimes. Usually 30 minute games though..

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

On the contrary, this thread has degenerated into people who don't like the game being told they either don't understand football, game mechanics, game design, or all of the above.

And for that reason, I'm outa here.

 

[klashman69]

On the contrary, this thread has degenerated into people who don't like the game being told they either don't understand football, game mechanics, game design, or all of the above.

Noo, ahh for fuck sake. I can't be arsed anyone, are we obligated to be negative all the time or something?

 

[Honome]

Get a room you two please!

 

[Ipswich69]

 

[Robbery]

I don't thing it is a matter of "people can handle realism" too. PES2014 had so many "problems" that imo you can't judge about people who don't like the game at this stage of the game.

I don't like the game because i think the goalkeepers are really bad, because i don't like to play a game without fouls or better without foulcalls - without penaltys or freekicks close to the goals, because i'm missing long shot attempts from the AI a lot, because i don't like playing against an AI that never score by a cornerkick, because shooting has no variation, because r2 shooting from long rage is broken. I could go on.

This game isn't to much realistic at all, not at this stage. A lot of basic things are wrong or don't work like they should.

Could you imagine playing, for example, NBA2k basketball if the following things would be in the game:

- no foul-calls by the refs
- because of that, no freethrows in the game (or 1-2 freethrows all 10 games or so)
- the AI never try to shot from 3-Point range
- all fadeaway shots would look the same (no variation, no spin, no drive, nothing)

Of course not. Nobody would accept that. And nobody would ever come to the conclusion that people don't like to play this game because it's to realistic.

You could come to this conclusion if the game would work fine but right now even the basics are wrong. With better goalkeepers, with refs doing a good job, with a realistic shooting system etc. the game would be miles better and so the reaction of the people would be very different.

 

[gerd]

Give me an example please..

The ulitmate example was a rally game (i think it was associated with Richard Burns, his name was in the title).
That was a real rally simulation, it was unplayable for 95% of the people who bought it.
Let's face it, 99% of what people call a simulation are not simulations at all (and that doens't matter to me, i love good arcadeish games like SSX).

 

[Robbery]

Let's face it, 99% of what people call a simulation are not simulations at all (and that doens't matter to me, i love good arcadeish games like SSX).

You're right and PES will never be a real simulation. No football game will ever be. It will always be a mix between sim and arcade and it has to be like this. It's a videogame and most people play 10, 15 mins a game. But it would be perfect okay if a football game gives you the feeling of the real thing most of the time. If basics like shooting, passing, goalkeeping, touches, etc feels right and if the tactical side of this sport feels right then most of the people will be satisfied.

 

[Vieirinha]

Finally! If they had done it for the last generation we would have much better PES2013 and PES2014! One console is the way to go!

They should also kill the PC version as well...

Then ignine engine FIFA 15 comes to PC...
Evo-web turns into FIFA web in matter of seconds.

 

[zlac]

They can't really kill the platform they use to develop the game, right?

Then ignine engine FIFA 15 comes to PC...

So soon? That's very optimistic ... 2 more years of EA's old "average PC isn't good enough" excuse are much more likely

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Noo, ahh for fuck sake. I can't be arsed anyone, are we obligated to be negative all the time or something?

I'm talking about the thread in general, Klash. And yes, being positive is great, i agree. If people love the game then again, great. It's a discussion thread that should take in all aspects of opinion.

Lately, it's become hard to post anything approaching criticism of the game without being shouted down or told they know nothing. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just an overall feeling from the thread these days.

 

[_anderson]

So now it's a case of 'if anyone doesn't like the game then it's because they can't handle the realism'.

Blimey. If this thread gets any more 'superior' then the mods may as well stick a giant picture of a crown at the top of the page.

Spot on. Love the fact that they apparently "own" the universal concept of realism.

We're in January, which means the cynical haters have't arrived yet. The people that are still here criticizing it are the ones unhappy with what the game has to offer.

Telling them to "go away" because they "just can't handle the game" is pathetic.

 

[klashman69]

I told you to go away because you only intention is to moan and take cheap pots at people.

I'm talking about the thread in general, Klash.

That's just Zee, nobody else has said this. Zee has been consistent in his stance, he likes the game and he disagrees with most of the criticism so many of his posts will look as if he saying people can't handle it.

I'm been talking mainly about the future of what went wrong and what we have to work with.

Lately, it's become hard to post anything approaching criticism of the game without being shouted down or told they know nothing. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just an overall feeling from the thread these days.

What? Everything here for the last few weeks has been criticize. it's getting old now, we all know whats wrong with PES 2014, did you not read my post on improvements for next year?

I'm annoyed because we actually moved on to talk about the future and other issues we have seen over the years and now i'm being barked up for not criticizing the game 24/7.

What your saying. it's like you want this thread to be 100% 24/7 negativity regarding PES, because your not happy with it? It makes the forum look like shit!

See, this is what i mean:

I don't thing it is a matter of "people can handle realism" too. PES2014 had so many "problems" that imo you can't judge about people who don't like the game at this stage of the game.

I don't like the game because i think the goalkeepers are really bad, because i don't like to play a game without fouls or better without foulcalls - without penaltys or freekicks close to the goals, because i'm missing long shot attempts from the AI a lot, because i don't like playing against an AI that never score by a cornerkick, because shooting has no variation, because r2 shooting from long rage is broken. I could go on.

This game isn't to much realistic at all, not at this stage. A lot of basic things are wrong or don't work like they should.

Could you imagine playing, for example, NBA2k basketball if the following things would be in the game:

- no foul-calls by the refs
- because of that, no freethrows in the game (or 1-2 freethrows all 10 games or so)
- the AI never try to shot from 3-Point range
- all fadeaway shots would look the same (no variation, no spin, no drive, nothing)

Of course not. Nobody would accept that. And nobody would ever come to the conclusion that people don't like to play this game because it's to realistic.

You could come to this conclusion if the game would work fine but right now even the basics are wrong. With better goalkeepers, with refs doing a good job, with a realistic shooting system etc. the game would be miles better and so the reaction of the people would be very different.

Nobody even said this, but if you start putting words into peoples mouths we end up going round in circles. Sorry Robbery, it's just nobody actually said this regarding PES 2014! this was not the discussion.

 

[_anderson]

Where the hell I've been taking cheap posts at people?

Just because you disagree with what others have to say doesn't mean your presence here is more valuable than theirs.

At the moment you're then one antagonizing people.

 

[superleeds1]

Cant believe people who hate the game are actually spending time discussing it,or trying to engage those who do enjoy it.

Pointless.

Thread now reads like a troll worthy shambles as a result.

 

[_anderson]

So tired of that argument. The majority of people you say "hate the game" are also the ones that have been here defending it before. If they still spend time talking about is because, although disappointed with its current state, obviously care about it.

If negative, justified criticism isn't valid than I don't know what's the point either.

 

[Ipswich69]

Just checked the UK PSN and there's still no stadium DLC

 

[Northzzz]

Regarding the 'realism' factor, PES 2014 is very good at getting some parts feeling really good (passing stands out). It's just that so much feels as if it hasn't been worked to the same degree that other parts of the game have which leads to parts you can admire a lot and parts which make you wonder what Konami were thinking. It's one of the least consistent PES games which I've ever played.

Building up a realistic game is always going to be difficult because you need to make sure all the parts are near to the same standard. If not then the flaws are just going to stand out completely, even to the point where they ruin an otherwise great experience (which is what I'd say when it comes to 2014 I suppose). I think for certain that the planning for PES 2015 is going to have to be/to have been spot on to alleviate the issues which some people have with 2014. It seems that Konami's goal is to move the 'realism' factor higher than it's ever been so you would hope they have been planning for this.

I worry that they might keep adding layers of polish gradually with an emphasis on making certain parts of the game seem really good. That would ignore the idea of a balanced whole which is what I'm hoping PES can do again (I want that aspect back, not the arcade-style game one!). They should be polishing all areas equally. I think that'd work in the game's favour.

As an addition, I think it's important to remember that people may dislike (or hate, which is quite strong) PES 2014 but they're probably big fans of the series who like to talk about it and hope it gets better. I guess this is a PES 2014 thread but with it being the newest addition of the game-thread it's the closest we have to a general PES thread (or at least that's how it's worked for the years that I've been here). When PES 2015 thread gets opened I imagine we'll see most of the expectant ones flock to that instead. People should probably make sure their posts aren't mindless and repetitive criticisms I suppose.

 

[superleeds1]

So tired of that argument. The majority of people you say "hate the game" are also the ones that have been here defending it before. If they still spend time talking about is because, although disappointed with its current state, obviously care about it.

If negative, justified criticism isn't valid than I don't know what's the point either.

I hoped that was the case.Just dont want people being personal with each other,thats all.

 

[klashman69]

Where the hell I've been taking cheap posts at people?

Your being cheeky, playing dumb when i ask you about something, but your happy to look down on me because i say PES 2013 has better individuality than PES5.

Can't read the sentence "the ball physics and individuality is much more advanced" with a straight face.

At least ball physics on WE9LE are far beyond any other PES game.

You do't even care about what anyone else says, your just here to moan and hope other people just say the exact same thing you do.

 

[A Real Gentleman]

Yes, and from what I've seen i think this is what Konami want to do, but it's important to separate sprinting from normally running.

You know when you sprint ts a conscious change of pace to run as fast as you can, which is different between walking to jogging.the left stick isn't enough to cover slow jogging to sprinting but more than enough an perfect to cover jogging at different speeds.

Disagree with that. I used to use the analog sticks as a brake and accelerator in GT5 and it worked perfectly. You need to use a far greater range of speed in a driving sim than whats needed to control the players in PES, I think it would work fine.