PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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We also need realistic stamina & fatigue. Back when I was actually playing PES2014, there was a game where I had a large period of play where I was playing a very fast pressing and attacking game, when this stopped I was thinking how awesome it would be if I now had to pay the price for such intensity and let my players recover before the same thing could be attempted again. We are at the stage now with the next gen consoles that this should be in football games, that is assuming that the reason we have not seen it up to this point is because of hardware limitations. Something this relevant to the real life game should be one of the core foundations of both PES and FIFA.

Also Klashman I totally agree with having speed mapped fully to the stick, I have been thinking since PES2011 that this should be done. I think it would be great to have the player as you said, move like in PES2014 with the very close touches with the stick slightly pressed and the you could suddenly push it right out to the edge and he would knock it far ahead and chase after it. All movement would be far more intuitive with things this way, players like Messi would be incredible to use with such a system.
 
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Hmmm speed mapped to the stick is on Fifa NG and i feel it messes with the player individuality especially the burst of pace some players have. If the map it Busquets will have the same burst as Messi and thats a hell no from me.
 
The PES team do a lot of stupid shit but I doubt even they would make Busquets accelerate at the same speed as Messi. Also dribbling speed is not completely controlled by the stick in FIFA, they still have a sprint button, I would like to see it fully controlled with the stick. It makes no sense to me why we have a sprint button, or even why you are limited to 2 speeds when we have analog sticks and have had them for many, many years.
 
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A Real Gentleman said:
The PES team do a lot of stupid shit but I doubt even they would make Busquets accelerate at the same speed as Messi. Also dribbling speed is not completely controlled by the stick in FIFA, they still have a sprint button, I would like to see it fully controlled with the stick. It makes no sense to me why we have a sprint button, or even why you are limited to 2 speeds when we have analog sticks and have had them for many, many years.
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I think that's the way to go too.
 
Jamezinho said:
That's the impression I got from playing PES2014.
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Deleted the post because it's not exactly what I meant.

The graphics engine is new, and so is the engine toolset, but the base of the game was ported from the previous engine into the new one and changes were made from there. From PES2013 release until PES2014 that's what Konami did, port the game to the Fox based engine and make a few "improvements".
 
zeemeister said:
Hmmm speed mapped to the stick is on Fifa NG and i feel it messes with the player individuality especially the burst of pace some players have. If the map it Busquets will have the same burst as Messi and thats a hell no from me.
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Sorry for the FIFA related post but that's simply not how it works.

Both players will do the speed burst with the right stick but their acceleration and starting speeds are very different. Faster players also knock the ball further out from their feet because they can capitalise on using the space in front of them to really build up some speed. It takes nothing away from individuality and works from player to player in exactly the same way as speed burst in PES.

If you use speed burst in FIFA then Busquets will struggle to get away from a player and stay ahead of them. Use the same thing with Messi and he'll motor into space with ease. In fact it's even harder to do this in PES using the speed burst because the AI auto catches you up to a certain extent.
 
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_anderson said:
Deleted the post because it's not exactly what I meant.

The graphics engine is new, and so is the engine toolset, but the base of the game was ported from the previous engine into the new one and changes were made from there. From PES2013 release until PES2014 that's what Konami did, port the game to the Fox based engine and make a few "improvements".
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You pretty much said the same thing as your deleted post, but anyway I completely agree. ;)
 
_anderson said:
Deleted the post because it's not exactly what I meant.

The graphics engine is new, and so is the engine toolset, but the base of the game was ported from the previous engine into the new one and changes were made from there. From PES2013 release until PES2014 that's what Konami did, port the game to the Fox based engine and make a few "improvements".
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No, you 100% wrong!

The gameplay was not ported. I wish the game felt more like 2013 :( PES 2014 cannot run off the same commands of 2013 because the entire animations, physics and collision engine is different, so it has to be reprogrammed again.

They are trying to rebuild PES 2013 with a new engine, with the brand new animations, physics and gameplay functions rebuilt, it was too ambitious for such a short time period.

Example:

Keepers in PES 2013 has issues only because the animations where ropey, robotic and at times plain weird. The responsiveness was fine, they where solid, they differed due to ability. Overall it was good. Despite those jerky jumps and what not.

Keepers in 2014 have mostly good animations, but not enough and the general responsiveness is very, very poor. There isn't enough keeper animations also because again everything has been done from scratch and there isn't much variation in their abilities.

This is so simple to understand! I can keep going on if you want.
 
Gameplay differences only mean they made yet another attempt to polish a turd, imo.

The game changed massively every year from PES2010 onwards, but the limitations were (and still are) the same.
 
_anderson said:
Gameplay differences only mean they made yet another attempt to polish a turd, imo.

The game changed massively every year from PES2010 onwards, but the limitations were (and still are) the same.
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No they aren't the same. You just being plain ignorant and feeling sorry for yourself. You can't be arsed to look into the game the last few just cried and moaned instead of facing the challenge.

hey fair enough you didn't like PES 2014, it's got serious issue but you had this apathetic attitude for a while now and i'm sorry i'm going to tell you the truth.

Sorry don't expect me to agree.
 
A Real Gentleman said:
Also Klashman I totally agree with having speed mapped fully to the stick, I have been thinking since PES2011 that this should be done. I think it would be great to have the player as you said, move like in PES2014 with the very close touches with the stick slightly pressed and the you could suddenly push it right out to the edge and he would knock it far ahead and chase after it. All movement would be far more intuitive with things this way, players like Messi would be incredible to use with such a system.
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Yes, and from what I've seen i think this is what Konami want to do, but it's important to separate sprinting from normally running.

You know when you sprint ts a conscious change of pace to run as fast as you can, which is different between walking to jogging. the left stick isn't enough to cover slow jogging to sprinting but more than enough an perfect to cover jogging at different speeds.

This is why Anderson to leave, if he wants to keep trolling and feel sorry for himself and not post anything constructive or most importantly actually listen to people for once in his life, then just leave.
 
Hugg said:
Still no fouls whatsoever and keepers concede retarded gooals.
My first rage quit on 2014, after all that time. Fuck sake!

But i'm still gonna play the game no matter. Check out Arsenal players in Edit section. Have a laugh!
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Sorry to quote an old post, but I gotta say this...

IMO the lack of fouls has actually been a problem with PES for years now, it just became more evident in PES 2014, nothing more than that.

The only game that got it right, and I remember that the more casual crowd used to moan a lot for this, was WE9. It is the only game that the defence part was beautifully well balanced, it used to make pressure abusers look silly as they are, they had to readapt the way they defend, they couldn't just sprint towards a player so agressively, while holding second pressure, as they could easily concede a foul. Just holding a button simply didn't work and could be a suicidal tatic.

IMO footbal games will never deserve to be called of good representation of the real sport because developers will never do something similar to what WE9 did in this aspect, and online matchs will never be really enjoyable to me because of pressure abusers, wich is worse than the assisted pass for me.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Sorry for the FIFA related post but that's simply not how it works.

Both players will do the speed burst with the right stick but their acceleration and starting speeds are very different. Faster players also knock the ball further out from their feet because they can capitalise on using the space in front of them to really build up some speed. It takes nothing away from individuality and works from player to player in exactly the same way as speed burst in PES.

If you use speed burst in FIFA then Busquets will struggle to get away from a player and stay ahead of them. Use the same thing with Messi and he'll motor into space with ease. In fact it's even harder to do this in PES using the speed burst because the AI auto catches you up to a certain extent.
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Pes sets the players apart with speed, dribble accuracy, dribble speed or dribble technique. So there is a marked difference between Messi or Valbuena and Busquets or Toure. The former have high speed with close ball control while the latter have good dribble but no pace. In Fifa you better off using Toure type as the messis are just shoved off the ball due to their poor technique. This brings me back to my first point - if Konami go with the user dictating the players acceleration you lose that difference Messi has over Busquets. High acceleration with ridiculous ball control.

Also the catchup bug is just as rife on fifa.
 
If i'm not mistake Zee but i think what you mean is that on FIFA you have Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben who both are fast and have high dribbling ability and will essentially play in the exact same way really. where as on PES you can the same players, both fast both great dribblers but due to so many stats coming into play they are both really good but feel massively different. If you know what i mean. Which is what individuality is all about.

Sounds like NG FIFA 14 is FIFA 08 revisited where top players all feel relatively the same, good players feel the same, average players feel the same and shit players feel the same but between the classes there a big difference. So shit player can't do anything well, no touch, no shooting, passing, where as big players do almost everything well.

I remember distinctly on that game playing with Morecombe online and other trash league 2 teams how crappy and horrible their touches where and their all round play was compared to top players. Still managed to beat united a few times with them. seems as if FIFA 14 NG has brought that level of individuality back at least.
 
DuduBR9 said:
Sorry to quote an old post, but I gotta say this...

IMO the lack of fouls has actually been a problem with PES for years now, it just became more evident in PES 2014, nothing more than that.

The only game that got it right, and I remember that the more casual crowd used to moan a lot for this, was WE9. It is the only game that the defence part was beautifully well balanced, it used to make pressure abusers look silly as they are, they had to readapt the way they defend, they couldn't just sprint towards a player so agressively, while holding second pressure, as they could easily concede a foul. Just holding a button simply didn't work and could be a suicidal tatic.

IMO footbal games will never deserve to be called of good representation of the real sport because developers will never do something similar to what WE9 did in this aspect, and online matchs will never be really enjoyable to me because of pressure abusers, wich is worse than the assisted pass for me.
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Like most other aspects of that game, I think the frequency of fouls in PES 5 is great. I remember a large percentage of the community (over at PESGaming) didn't feel the same though when the game was released. After that the frequency of fouls in PES games was reduced to the trickle we have now, which is a shame and not really representative of real football.
 
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OK I've lurked here long enough, and I feel compelled to post some thoughts on the game after a disastrous five game session with my brother.

Quick background:

- I only own "Sports Simulation" games. (Realistic) gameplay means the most to me above all else in a game.

- The last PES I owned before now was PES 2011 - I thought it was horrible primarily because players never bothered to make attacking runs, plus the running animations looked so cartoony when compared to NBA 2K11 which I played regularly.

- As I said I play NBA 2K (10-13) as well, but their disregard for strategy in the current iteration has caused me to take a year out. That means I'm looking for a realistic strategy fix from PES 2014. Also for all the praise NBA 2K gets in these parts (usually when bashing PES), the last truly great game they had was 2K11, and they have removed so many key features from the game it's ridiculous. Also it's sim community is far smaller than PES's.

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OK having said all that, this game is really pissing me off. It was great for the first few weeks, but I saw on forums that people were warning about spammed through balls. I didn't notice this at first, as I was just mostly playing professional against the CPU, but after finally getting to Superstar, and especially when I'm playing my brother it's just absolutely ridiculous the accuracy of through balls.

I'm much more of a "simhead" (1 bar passing), so when I see countless wrong offsides given (even against my brother), it irks me and when through balls are being made when IRL that ball would fly out of touch (doesn't matter if Pirlo delivered it), it slowly enrages me. I try to play the "right" way, but my brother (3 bar passing) will exploit something if it gives him an advantage, and so, he pings through balls over the top all game long even when there wasn't even any kind of separation, and the ball will just stop dead enough before the touchline to get to the ball.

I've tried playing as deep as possible with no frontline pressure whatsoever, I've tried snapping at his heels giving him no time (but of course he just turns me and no one covers for me), a combination of the two - it just doesn't work. The only thing that has worked is man marking all the attacking players. But even that he somehow has managed to break. Meanwhile, I don't spam through balls, I'm looking for a clear opportunity, and it's so much harder for me, and he's not doing anything special defensively. Only last week I was thrashing him (including a couple of 7-1's), and now I've managed to lose five in a row.

50-50 balls fall to him at a miraculously high rate.

Lack of fouls puts me at a big advantage, as I play fairly, while he has no problem with injuring my players and at most getting a yellow for it. The little fouls are what really kill my team though, players can just come up from behind to take the ball (when IRL they have no right to do that), and the inconsistent refereeing severely unbalances the game. People trying to play like Barcelona online, have no chance trying to keep possession in tight areas with that BS going on.

Player awareness especially when defending is poor. If I'm controlling Evra and chasing Walcott who's sprinting down the wing and about to cross into the box, I don't want Ferdinand or Vidic coming to close down Walcott as well, especially since I haven't even pressed the Pressure 2 button. It can just leave an easy tap in for an oncoming attacker.

I don't know what kind of gamers Konami thinks play football with the control scheme they have for triggering a run. Why can't I just hit one button to make a player make an intelligent run, and not just straight forwards, at angles too, and not all at one speed either (that's too predictable). I don't know about everyone else, but I think asking me to press LB and then flicking the RS towards the player that I want to start running, while I still have to dribble and possibly protect the ball with the passer, is asking too much. Why can't players have tendencies like in 2K? It's ridiculous playing against North Korea on Superstar with England, and their midfielders are doing advanced tricks. Sometimes it's like watching a FIFA online match the regularity at which the CPU pulls off out-of-context dribble moves with players who never even use them.

Defenders who get tight on their man get turned way to easily, which is especially horrible if that defender is a CB. The turning animation when seeing an oncoming ball is Titus Bramblesque, they instantly make it a one-on-one for the striker.
 
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Ipswich69 said:
Like most other aspects of that game, I think the frequency of fouls in PES 5 is great. I remember a large percentage of the community (over at PESGaming) didn't feel the same though when the game was released. After that the frequency of fouls in PES games was reduced to the trickle we have now, which is a shame and not really representative of real football.
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Yes

It annoys me where people cry for realism on one hand, then they start crying when the realism is implemented and they can't handle it.

Man up people!
 
One of the things I realized during the last months was that asking for realism on a videogame it's a thing everyone does, and it's cool to do, but wanting realism it's not something many people actually want, because in the end it ends up to be frustrating for the majority.



With PES 2014, some people asked for something as close as real football. The problem is, after the initial "oohs" and "aahs", they felt the game lacked something. They just weren't happy with the gameplay. This problem, apart from the others that plagued the game (bugs, lack of modes, online exploits, Konami behavior), created the current situation.



I think PES 2014 in its current state, even with all its bugs fixed, is just not a enjoyable product for the global user base.



With the competition, the same happens. Lots of people asked for slower players and tempo, inertia, remove of pace abuse. Then the demo came, and the same people complained about those exact features. So what happened? The developers ruined the game with its first patch, with a game play closer, if not the same, to the previous version.



In the end, I realized that people just want something that resembles real life in some aspects (licenses, faces, stadiums, etc), but doesn't mimic it. So in football games, for example, people just want to score goals with their preferred player and win games with their favorite team, in an environment that is similar to what they see every Saturday Afternoon. They don't care if there are instant turns, countless screamers, silly celebrations or close to none tactics. If they have fun, that's what matters.
 
klashman69 said:
If i'm not mistake Zee but i think what you mean is that on FIFA you have Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben who both are fast and have high dribbling ability and will essentially play in the exact same way really. where as on PES you can the same players, both fast both great dribblers but due to so many stats coming into play they are both really good but feel massively different. If you know what i mean. Which is what individuality is all about.

Sounds like NG FIFA 14 is FIFA 08 revisited where top players all feel relatively the same, good players feel the same, average players feel the same and shit players feel the same but between the classes there a big difference. So shit player can't do anything well, no touch, no shooting, passing, where as big players do almost everything well.

I remember distinctly on that game playing with Morecombe online and other trash league 2 teams how crappy and horrible their touches where and their all round play was compared to top players. Still managed to beat united a few times with them. seems as if FIFA 14 NG has brought that level of individuality back at least.
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Exactly. You might hear something different in never-neverland though.

Great post niko been saying that for years. The days that we get a true footy sim people will kick up a fuss.
 
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klashman69 said:
Sounds like NG FIFA 14 is FIFA 08 revisited where top players all feel relatively the same, good players feel the same, average players feel the same and shit players feel the same but between the classes there a big difference. So shit player can't do anything well, no touch, no shooting, passing, where as big players do almost everything well.
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FIFA14:
I think you're right but, and this might just be me, but even though shit players and shit teams remove the possibility of playing "joga bonito" style football I actually score just as many goals. The long pass accuracy is nothing short of fantastic and it seems to me that the skill isn't much involved at all. Wimbledon style football is, after all, the most effective style in FIFA and you need nothing special in terms of players to pull it off spectacularly.

PES14:
After the removal of passing speed I somewhat feel the same with PES. Since the removal of passing speed, the shot power comes into account on passes as well and it means that a defender, which often have low shot power for some reason, aren't able to reach through with their long passes because the passes gets intercepted. But if you have a defender with high shot power, he can thread those balls through to your striker with utmost accuracy all day long. The accuracy is arguable a bit lower in PES and you need specific players to pull it off, but it's still a very similar problem.

Passing accuracy is a stat I often ignore because the limitations a poor passer put on you is much less noticeable than low speed, shot power or technique. Stamina, Tenacity and Form are probably the most important stats which I think is perfectly correct.

NikoLiberty4 said:
With PES 2014, some people asked for something as close as real football. The problem is, after the initial "oohs" and "aahs", they felt the game lacked something. They just weren't happy with the gameplay.
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If Konami listens to feedback at all they must be listening to different people every time the lend an ear to the community then. Either that or they listen to ambivalent kids who doesn't really know what they want. I honestly think that the best strategy Konami could have is to be exactly the opposite of FIFA. Let FIFA cater to the fast paced arcade gamer, and let PES be the "thinking man's" football game.

Not saying one would be "better" than the other, I would definitely keep both for different occasions then. What's "best" is what suits your preference, in the end.
 
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Ipswich69 said:
Like most other aspects of that game, I think the frequency of fouls in PES 5 is great. I remember a large percentage of the community (over at PESGaming) didn't feel the same though when the game was released. After that the frequency of fouls in PES games was reduced to the trickle we have now, which is a shame and not really representative of real football.
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+1

PES5 encouraged more intelligent defending as a consequence.
 
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