PES 2014 Discussion Thread

[zeemeister]

What does it matter Zee, your having fun, yeah the game feels like a beta because lets face it, it is but it's certainly not trash and there still a lot to explore.

Zee, fuck everyone else continue ripping shit up in Serie A with Napoli.

Serie A?! I just whipped Chelsea 3-1 group stage of the CL as well

I know I shouldn't be bothered and PES is far from perfect but honestly feel people are robbing themselves of a chance to play a immense game.

Different strokes I suppose.

 

[klashman69]

i dont agree klash there is no license governing how much a commentator can say about a player's history. Notice how before a game they pick out a player and talk about him till the game starts. This game actually has press conferences in career mode where u can choose your response and consequently your carreer path . I want that for Pes if its is jst about the licenses. Let Konami start it with the la liga or serie A

Well yes there is. For example with Real Madrid They can't speak history about Gareth Bale and Luka Modric because it's predominantly in the premier league. They can't say Tottenham! the lack of a premier league licence leaves these gaping holes ingame regarding this. Even with man united they can't speak about judas's *cough* van persie, career, they cannot say Arsenal.

Even with the champions league they need to avoid All the English teams apart from Man United. Not to mention the German league.

They do have team history to an extent, but it's very brief, they don't go into too much detail i think, with fear of tripping on a licences.

 

[easypeazy]

Well yes there is. For example with Real Madrid They can't speak history about Gareth Bale and Luka Modric because it's predominantly in the premier league. They can't say Tottenham! the lack of a premier league licence leaves these gaping holes ingame regarding this. Even with man united they can't speak about judas's *cough* van persie, career, they cannot say Arsenal.

Even with the champions league they need to avoid All the English teams apart from Man United. Not to mention the German league.

They do have team history to an extent, but it's very brief, they don't go into too much detail i think, with fear of tripping on a licences.

sad times klash . i sent an email to BPL asking them to end exclusive licenses

 

[klashman69]

I'm a big cynic when it comes to western culture and i don't particularly like big horrible corporate companies. Konami are a corproate company, however we all know and can see PES productions is relatively small compared to your Battlefield, Epic games etc.. all that stuff.

I hate this licencing crap. The Premiership, all modern leagues should look at the NBA who give their licence out to anyone who pays for the rights, with no chance of securing a exclusivity.

Serie A?! I just whipped Chelsea 3-1 group stage of the CL as well

I know I shouldn't be bothered and PES is far from perfect but honestly feel people are robbing themselves of a chance to play a immense game.

Different strokes I suppose.

what level you playing on and time length by the way?

 

[Rob92]

Serie A?! I just whipped Chelsea 3-1 group stage of the CL as well

I know I shouldn't be bothered and PES is far from perfect but honestly feel people are robbing themselves of a chance to play a immense game.

Different strokes I suppose.

It's great that you're enjoying it .

However, there are many bugs, some of which a lot of people see as gamebreaking (they've been discussed at length already so won't elaborate too much) and strange design choices (e.g. the awful free kick system).

There are good moments, particularly the passing game in midfield, but all of the components don't slot together to create the balanced, exciting and unpredictable experience that, for me, PES is renowned for. It's like the vision they had wasn't realised.

It just feels like an unfinished product - I love my football and I've played countless hours of PES over the years, but this version just does nothing for me, there's no spark, it's just a grind and I end up just feeling apathetic and disconnected from the game in the same way as when I play FIFA.

I've enjoyed PES so much in the past because of the immersive, tactile gameplay that made you think like a footballer, and I hope that Konami can offer an experience like that again sooner rather than later.

 

[bobfifalas]

One of the many annoying things this year is ping pong lob passes on 1 bar pass. Last year on 1 bar pass lob passes were freer. Manuel is too hard for me and that is the only option for less assisted lob passes

 

[Kunio_Kun]

One of the many annoying things this year is ping pong lob passes on 1 bar pass. Last year on 1 bar pass lob passes were freer. Manuel is too hard for me and that is the only option for less assisted lob passes

You gotta understand, we'll never get rid of on-rail system..

Fox Engine - Engineered with on-rail...

 

[reinelt97]

Are you guys using basic shooting or manual?

Tempted to give the game one last go before trading it in. Any advice on best settings would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I strongly believe the people who are writing off PES 2014 have not played it enough.

I played the game plenty, through countless hours, and thought it was shite. I personally don't understand how anyone can ignore the atrocious AI, or lack of variety of goals.

I played a couple of ML seasons and got infuriated by the COM performing the exact same attacking moves, over and over again, or the fact that almost every single goal, either scored or conceded, came as a result of getting one-v-one with the keeper and slotting home an identical shot each time. Or, I couldn't ignore just how atrocious the keepers were. All pretty massive things for a football game.

Like I said, I played it plenty, I guess the difference is whether you're willing to ignore such glaring issues or not.

 

[klashman69]

I played the game plenty, through countless hours, and thought it was shite. I personally don't understand how anyone can ignore the atrocious AI, or lack of variety of goals.

That was mainly on superstar which is the very worst level to play on, all that anger you generated you took it out on top player and professional which are better. They aren't the same. I can tell by the way you wrote about it.

I played a couple of ML seasons and got infuriated by the COM performing the exact same attacking moves, over and over again, or the fact that almost every single goal, either scored or conceded, came as a result of getting one-v-one with the keeper and slotting home an identical shot each time. Or, I couldn't ignore just how atrocious the keepers were. All pretty massive things for a football game.

Exactly my point, that what you describe is superstar.

I refuse to get angry and just trash talk things without thorough investigation! Everything happens for a reason, nothing is shit for the sake of being shit and if we are hardcore football fans and gamers we must have a hardcore understanding though play and through watching the game.

Superstar has big problems ingame on 1.00-1.04 there seems to be just too much going on ingame for the console to handle and process everything. The problem is not the PS3 isn't capable of handling the game physically, the problem is time! Time spent developing and correcting the game to make sure everything works. If i was Konami they aren't soulless assholes who don't care, this again is a angry reaction. I think Konami are ever more pissed off than everyone here put together. I think they are very unhappy and i can see that in their new patch.

You spend all year creating a new game and doing it to a very high standard. You get everything done well. But it's spoiled by optimization issues ingame so the Superstar AI you developed and is on show in training mode can't be replicated ingame because of bugs which haven't been foreseen because you spent all year just trying to gt things to work 'period'. I'd be immensely pissed off! especially regarding tactics, when the game works properly it's deeper than PES 2013, that is all i need to say despite the problems with dribbling and moving slowly, the Cross to near post problems are all 'Command error' related so the AI just stops following scripts, its that they didn't bother in the first place!

Superstar 1.06 improves massively, not fixing errors, no infact just correcting how the game can play like it does ingame like it does in training mode, it's about about 85% compared to the 30% before. Still a few errors but that is not out on PS3 yet, superstar works properly in training mode only, that is a good reflection on where Konami is at in their long term plan, it shows they have less to do than people think actually, a lot less to do.

The big issues revolve around the amount of code i think the game is handling since Professional is harder ingame but it's easier because the CPU isn't doing as many things.

I agree with your negativity regarding this game, you pay you money and the game has many issues not up to standard, what i cannot understand is the red mist, blind pessimism for the future and understand what went 'wrong'. People just don't research or look deep into things and take everything at face value which leaves you open to be influenced by shills and what not. this is not the same as a few years ago, the situation has changed and we are so far on from the PES golden era in which you didn't have to worry about engines and marketing power.

I feel a need to make a big point here because Konami clearly give a shit! Japanese people are very proud, something i learned about not Japanese people but how very proud people behave, they don't like and take rejection very seriously! They very good a coding which seems a general trait for Asian games, however their marketing is out of touch to say the least. It's obvious, they are having issues which hasn't been good enough because to many the game is unplayable. I always back people who at least fucking try, and they are trying, their issue is they have been 'too' ambitious and it hasn't payed off, nobody can deny them that, I feel as if for me Konami is all we have in terms of a football sim unlike the other bastards who don't even bother and just take your money.

If Konami give up, I fear we will end up like American football fans with Madden

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

My point was Klash that some people just don't like the game. Zee is a good guy but I just didn't agree with the assertion that if you don't like the game then it's because you haven't given it a chance.

As for Superstar, yes, the CPU did the exact same tactics but it also did the same on Top Player. Constant spamming of lofted through-balls, chipping the ball into the corners followed by low passes into the near post, the AI was so repetetive on Top Player (which I played on a lot) and Superstar. And to me, Professional wasn't any fun because I could win at ease, so there wasn't any point in playing on that difficulty either.

I think Konami put all their eggs into one basket with the animations and new engine but never bothered with the AI at all. It's far more one-dimensional than in previous PES games.

Either way, I'm glad people are enjoying it and I keep a keen interest in PES even if I don't play it at the moment, but i felt I needed to comment if I was effectively being told I was wrong about not liking the game because I didn't give it a chance. The AI in the game simply isn't good enough for this day and age, and no animation or foot planting systems will make up for that.

 

[klashman69]

I think Konami put all their eggs into one basket with the animations and new engine but never bothered with the AI at all. It's far more one-dimensional than in previous PES games..

Aggh, No, they did bother, they had issues with it actually working 'Ingame' 'In a competitive match or friendly', i just said in my long post, how many times, its there, it's programmed, there are 'command error' so the AI doesn't' execute the AI scripts!

They did bother, they put a lot of effort into something which isn't showing up ingame.

Let me explain it again so i'm not misinterpreted! This is what i mean by 'command error'.

In training mode the AI follows correctly it's given defensive and offensive tactics so when you move into certain areas as per every other pes game, the defence would, pressure high up, not pressure or drop off, the designated defensive minded players would pressure and offensive minded players wont, then in attack they will follow their given slider settings along with combination play. Regardless of a tackle, a shot or whatever action it will run smoothly.

Ingame, on Superstar and on top player, you start a game, a 'tackle' then the 'execution' of the tactic gameplan, just freezes, the team stands there does nothing, then reacts, then does nothing, then reacts, and in a couple of minutes the AI or you have scored a one on one, hence the high lines! Keeper errors, all sorts, hence the standing around, i think above all it's a LOD (Level of detail) issue where the Cache is handling too much information so it just doesn't execute anything!

Its there, but it's not working properly because of a lack of TIME! developing it. remember this has been made from scratch, zero, nada it takes time to get right.

If they didn't bother the game would be fucked in training mode which it certainly isn't.

And to me, Professional wasn't any fun because I could win at ease, so there wasn't any point in playing on that difficulty either.

No, you said it was kicking your ass? You where finding it too hard? You said that a while back.

 

[Ipswich69]

PES 2014 (offline) on top player plays a better game of football than any football game (including the much overrated FIFA 14 cg and ng) since PES 5/6. Keepers and Master league need an overhaul.

 

[easypeazy]

for me pes 2014 despite all its issues still gives me my football fix. I have confidence that konami can fix the ai variety in this game i even noticed that teammate ai was better in 1.04 than in 1.01, I remember that the last update of pes 2012 basically made the ai gods. I remember i used to take turns with my mates to try and beat the ai on superstar. I have confidence in Konami for an AI upgrade

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Aggh, No, they did bother, they had issues with it actually working 'Ingame' 'In a competitive match or friendly', i just said in my long post, how many times, its there, it's programmed, there are 'command error' so the AI doesn't' execute the AI scripts!

They did bother, they put a lot of effort into something which isn't showing up ingame.

Let me explain it again so i'm not misinterpreted! This is what i mean by 'command error'.

In training mode the AI follows correctly it's given defensive and offensive tactics so when you move into certain areas as per every other pes game, the defence would, pressure high up, not pressure or drop off, the designated defensive minded players would pressure and offensive minded players wont, then in attack they will follow their given slider settings along with combination play. Regardless of a tackle, a shot or whatever action it will run smoothly.

Ingame, on Superstar and on top player, you start a game, a 'tackle' then the 'execution' of the tactic gameplan, just freezes, the team stands there does nothing, then reacts, then does nothing, then reacts, and in a couple of minutes the AI or you have scored a one on one, hence the high lines! Keeper errors, all sorts, hence the standing around, i think above all it's a LOD (Level of detail) issue where the Cache is handling too much information so it just doesn't execute anything!

Its there, but it's not working properly because of a lack of TIME! developing it. remember this has been made from scratch, zero, nada it takes time to get right.

If they didn't bother the game would be fucked in training mode which it certainly isn't.



No, you said it was kicking your ass? You where finding it too hard? You said that a while back.

That might be the case, I don't know, but if it is then they should never have released it in that state, and certainly not charge full price for the game. It doesn't change the fact that it was released without working properly and hasn't been fixed.

As for Professional level, I may have said that but it will have been not long after buying the game. When I decided to get rid of the game I could win comfortably on that difficulty.

It's all subjective. I think the gameplay, and game as a package, was really poor. Just because other people choose to ignore those problems, or think that scoring the same types of goal over and over again is interesting, doesn't mean they're right and people who don't like the game are wrong. That's all I was saying really.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

PES 2014 (offline) on top player plays a better game of football than any football game (including the much overrated FIFA 14 cg and ng) since PES 5/6. Keepers and Master league need an overhaul.

It's all subjective, but I'm happy with the AI in NG FIFA. It's miles ahead of current-gen.

As for PES, just hope they can sort it out on Next-gen. I'm a lifelong PES fan so I want the series to be as good as it can.

 

[vincef]

once you learn the shield and dribble mechanisims to you have so much more time to dictate the play.

Please teach me !!

 

[zeemeister]

I played the game plenty, through countless hours, and thought it was shite. I personally don't understand how anyone can ignore the atrocious AI, or lack of variety of goals.

I played a couple of ML seasons and got infuriated by the COM performing the exact same attacking moves, over and over again, or the fact that almost every single goal, either scored or conceded, came as a result of getting one-v-one with the keeper and slotting home an identical shot each time. Or, I couldn't ignore just how atrocious the keepers were. All pretty massive things for a football game.

Like I said, I played it plenty, I guess the difference is whether you're willing to ignore such glaring issues or not.

Dont know if its the difficulty level but like I said not one parry and game winning saves from Reina. Who was your keeper in ML?
Also the AI was varied from team to team but I kept an eye on their default formation. They were however changing formation numetous times based on the context of the game

That annoying low cross was minimal because I was covering the runner in the box.

 

[vincef]

once you learn the shield and dribble mechanisims to you have so much more time to dictate

Please teach me !!

 

[easypeazy]

Please teach me !!

i will try and make a video , i jst learnt something today if the ball is a short distance to your leg if you press R2 your player will stretch out his leg to bring the ball closer to him. My advice is this when dribbling your player has to slow down a bit so you can move crisply but if you hold R1 you will easily be closed down because of your speed. Holding R1 works when a defender is badly positioned and you take advantage of his bad positioning and sprint past him by pressing R1 twice. Also think of the right analog stick an extension of your leg u can use it to control the ball. R1, R2 and right analog stick are very key in dribbling. Sometime not running at all can make you beat players because of inertia. Try these tips out its all about anticipation

 

[klashman69]

That might be the case, I don't know, but if it is then they should never have released it in that state, and certainly not charge full price for the game. It doesn't change the fact that it was released without working properly and hasn't been fixed.

As for Professional level, I may have said that but it will have been not long after buying the game. When I decided to get rid of the game I could win comfortably on that difficulty.

It's all subjective. I think the gameplay, and game as a package, was really poor. Just because other people choose to ignore those problems, or think that scoring the same types of goal over and over again is interesting, doesn't mean they're right and people who don't like the game are wrong. That's all I was saying really.

Before we play Captain Hindsight, if we look at all the perspectives available for Konami this year was always going to be a risk. Starting from scratch and entering the unknown was never going to be plain sailing. I think also in another perspective if anything many of us where possibly naive to think this would be released without any problems. Then again the most important factor is if the game works and for a while it just hasn't.

Looking at the alternatives

1. Release the game for half price:
I’m unsure if anyone has done marketing, but what I've learned working in sales, you can NEVER, EVER say anything bad about what your selling, it’s simply a no go, also mentality, you can’t charge half price for your game on release, people will question, what? Why is this half price, what is missing? If the game was released in the same state for half the price it would have been worse, people would lose all faith in the company, hey they knew it was going to be shit, so they didn't bother.

2. Konami Release the game later in November:
Can’t help but think Konami thought if the game was released later the game would had lost out heavily in sales to EA since they are the other competitor. Also as we saw in the November patch it didn't sort everything out ingame anyway, so if they waited until it was ready, which it seems would have been, errm who knows? January??? Not release the game at all? Lose out heavily on sales?

3. Konami release a service update to PES 2013,
All I can think of is with Konami’s focus on transitioning to the next gen, just slightly upgrading PES 2013 with new kits in a new season, what I think is this would of wasted development time on the new engine since they are a small team and can’t work on two separate games at once, also the old engine had very much hit its peak really, can’t see what else they could of done gameplay wise, people would of heavily criticized this game for just being the ‘same old shit’ commercially. This is what hurt Konami so much in the first place in the ‘golden era’ afraid of change and not preparing for the future.

Looking at the Hindsight alternatives, these all would of come with a large amount of 'guaranteed' negativity, so the risky option they took was probably the best one to take. It just didn't pay off.

 

[easypeazy]

I jst saw something that made me puke, Pes really needs a rich arab to invest in the game, how can IGN give FIFA 14 on nextgen a 9.1 and nba2k14 on nextgen and 8.9 .Both of them are not even on the same league look at 2k's cloth physics , EA clearly bought that review. I hope the pes AFC license and all will make a wealthy arab want to invest, if not its jst sad

 

[zeemeister]

i will try and make a video , i jst learnt something today if the ball is a short distance to your leg if you press R2 your player will stretch out his leg to bring the ball closer to him. My advice is this when dribbling your player has to slow down a bit so you can move crisply but if you hold R1 you will easily be closed down because of your speed. Holding R1 works when a defender is badly positioned and you take advantage of his bad positioning and sprint past him by pressing R1 twice. Also think of the right analog stick an extension of your leg u can use it to control the ball. R1, R2 and right analog stick are very key in dribbling. Sometime not running at all can make you beat players because of inertia. Try these tips out its all about anticipation

+1

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Before we play Captain Hindsight, if we look at all the perspectives available for Konami this year was always going to be a risk. Starting from scratch and entering the unknown was never going to be plain sailing. I think also in another perspective if anything many of us where possibly naive to think this would be released without any problems. Then again the most important factor is if the game works and for a while it just hasn't.

Looking at the alternatives

1. Release the game for half price:
I’m unsure if anyone has done marketing, but what I've learned working in sales, you can NEVER, EVER say anything bad about what your selling, it’s simply a no go, also mentality, you can’t charge half price for your game on release, people will question, what? Why is this half price, what is missing? If the game was released in the same state for half the price it would have been worse, people would lose all faith in the company, hey they knew it was going to be shit, so they didn't bother.

2. Konami Release the game later in November:
Can’t help but think Konami thought if the game was released later the game would had lost out heavily in sales to EA since they are the other competitor. Also as we saw in the November patch it didn't sort everything out ingame anyway, so if they waited until it was ready, which it seems would have been, errm who knows? January??? Not release the game at all? Lose out heavily on sales?

3. Konami release a service update to PES 2013,
All I can think of is with Konami’s focus on transitioning to the next gen, just slightly upgrading PES 2013 with new kits in a new season, what I think is this would of wasted development time on the new engine since they are a small team and can’t work on two separate games at once, also the old engine had very much hit its peak really, can’t see what else they could of done gameplay wise, people would of heavily criticized this game for just being the ‘same old shit’ commercially. This is what hurt Konami so much in the first place in the ‘golden era’ afraid of change and not preparing for the future.

Looking at the Hindsight alternatives, these all would of come with a large amount of 'guaranteed' negativity, so the risky option they took was probably the best one to take. It just didn't pay off.

I understand Konami's decision to release the game on current-gen due to the existing user-base. And, yes, it was completely new, and yes, there was comparatively little time to get the game out. But under no circumstances has it been acceptable to release the game in the state it was. You seem to be implying that it's okay to hand over money for a game that doesn't work properly just because it's in a transition period. And by that, I mean stuff apart from gameplay - data packs not downloading for weeks on end, late transfer updates, pre-order DLC not working, patches that don't fix anything substantial, stuttering and resetting PS3s, AI that apparently only works properly in training mode only (as you claim - I personally never tried it), online having massive issues, problems with different types of shot on manual shooting etc.

Fair play if you want to support Konami but I don't want to spend my money on essentially a beta test. I think it takes the piss.

 

[Jamezinho]

Is PES2014 completely new and starting from scratch?

Not in my opinion.

 

[klashman69]

Yes it is Jamez, look at the editing forums and threads, we looked into the game files they are night and day from PES 2013, hell PES 2013 still had old data, media and images from PES 2009 left in, totally unused. PES 2014 was built from scratch.

This is why it's taken so long for patches to put stadiums ingame, also it's taken ages and we seen far, far less patches than last year because there are less tools to edit data since they all had to be rebuilt.

I understand Konami's decision to release the game on current-gen due to the existing user-base. And, yes, it was completely new, and yes, there was comparatively little time to get the game out. But under no circumstances has it been acceptable to release the game in the state it was. You seem to be implying that it's okay to hand over money for a game that doesn't work properly just because it's in a transition period. And by that, I mean stuff apart from gameplay - data packs not downloading for weeks on end, late transfer updates, pre-order DLC not working, patches that don't fix anything substantial, stuttering and resetting PS3s, AI that apparently only works properly in training mode only (as you claim - I personally never tried it), online having massive issues, problems with different types of shot on manual shooting etc.

Fair play if you want to support Konami but I don't want to spend my money on essentially a beta test. I think it takes the piss.

You really can't defend Konami to be honest, i'm just stating my awareness that Konami, when you take the rater unpleasant and nasty hardcore business task that are needed where always playing a highly risky game.

In all fairness it would had been best to leave this until it was 100% ready but Konami seem to be under a strict yearly cycle so i had to be put out.

Times are hard out there for money!

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

hey klashman maybe you can help out here, cause im not familiar on how games are developed, my question is, do konami have multiple teams focusing on different areas of the game.

 

[Jamezinho]

The file structure may be different (as I'm well aware), doesn't mean the core of the game is a complete reboot. Remember back to a couple of months before PES2014 was released when Asim said there was still too much of PES2013 in the game. He was right.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Is PES2014 completely new and starting from scratch?

Not in my opinion.

Well, I kind of agree with you there, but that's a whole other argument!

 

[easypeazy]

Is PES2014 completely new and starting from scratch?

Not in my opinion.

It is very new it is jst built around old pes principles if u look at the file structure and the coding you will see it is very different from old engine pes. It is one thing for a developers to get a grip of a new engine and it is another to claim it is the old engine mixed with the new . For pes 2014 I think the former is the case