PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Me!TheRaven said:
The paramount thing in any game trying to replicate football, for me, has to be getting the ball physics spot on. From there on the whole flow of games and players movement will have its "source". Everything in a football game behaves according to the ball positioning and behaviour. You get that right, you´ll get almost everything.

I did love pes 14 demo, and first showings. It really brings new, beautiful things to the mix, realistic ones. But then, the poor AI, the unbalanced keepers, the input lag, player awareness to the ball and dangers, the unrealistic shooting and the whole unfinished feel to the complete package just overwhelms the few good things it does have.
And don´t get me started on how it promotes( again) shitty, exploitable gameplay online, wich was the last straw for me. I know guys who didn´t even did the tutorial ingame, subsequently never played offline, and are major MLO players, exploiting speed and power, carelessly.=
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I mostly play online. The people you describe seems to be 90% of the players I meet online. :LMAO: They have 0 buildup play.

I find it easier to defend against players who play carelessly use speed all the time. Do you ever notice that in some games, these players can break you down, but in other games they have trouble with it? It's mostly down to opposing tactics/team shape. With the right tactics, I don't even have to do much to stop them. Blind runs and blind passes just get cut off almost automatically (most of the runs, and some of the passes). I mean, even the magnetism in assisted passing is an exploit, that's why blind passing works and 180 degree passes can find a team mate. But we can't really remove this because not everyone plays manual.

I don't really know the answer to how to stop a certain team formation, I have some idea, but it's really vague. I just prepare a bunch in my presets, most of the time at least one of them will work. I haven't even played PES14 for about 2 weeks. Put the disc in yesterday for a few games, and it still works for me.
 
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losslesscompression said:
According to Adam they're working on next patch and DLC, currently on testing phase. By the sound of it, most likely will be fixes for technical issue. So i'm not going to get my hopes high for gameplay improvement.
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trying not to make a joke out of this* :JAY:


Lami said:
Actually is there a stat that edit the keeper's ability to leave his line?
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"marauding" maybe?
 
Mate, when you lose vs guys who have only 1 mid, 5 guys packed up around your box, 4 defenders around their keeper, and who don´t change it during the whole game, don´t use combination plays or the defensive line, and you still can´t clearly dominate possession in midfield or the flow of the game, something is very wrong with the game mechanics. Stamina, tackling, awareness, shooting, keepers, formations... the lot,is poorly representing anything realistic or balanced. I stopped blaming the exploiters/abusers, i now blame Konami. After 4 iterations of mlo, things like these should have been adressed. They haven´t.
 
MLO always will be an all-action game mode. Don't expect too much tactical contest. Unfortunately they don't have a mode which equal to FIFA's Clubs mode to cater for patience player.

Again I would like to stressed Konami (not PES Production) really need to invest more into the series if they want a complete package, both offline and online.
 
Han said:
Maybe my memory is wrong, but qua speed I think PES 3 was the fastest, PES 5 the slowest and PES 6 is something in between...
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PES 2 (Babangida) and 4 were relentlessly fast. PES 3 and 5 were sims. PES 6 was a bit of a hybrid. PES 2008 they just reinvented it as an arcade game. PES 2010 went back to being a simulation, PES 2011 built on it. PES 2012 ramped up the speed again. Toned it down for 2013. Same for 2014, but lacks the flair of the older games.
 
Me!TheRaven said:
Mate, when you lose vs guys who have only 1 mid, 5 guys packed up around your box, 4 defenders around their keeper, and who don´t change it during the whole game, don´t use combination plays or the defensive line, and you still can´t clearly dominate possession in midfield or the flow of the game, something is very wrong with the game mechanics. Stamina, tackling, awareness, shooting, keepers, formations... the lot,is poorly representing anything realistic or balanced. I stopped blaming the exploiters/abusers, i now blame Konami. After 4 iterations of mlo, things like these should have been adressed. They haven´t.
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Sounds like you're describing the constant pressure? It's been a while since I played against someone with 4 (or more) forwards. I used to see that all the time in PES13 and before that. I wonder if it still works as well for these players, some of them seem to have given up on this. For that, I just play 3 CBs really deep and close together, and play a long pass over the pressuring forwards to the LMF or RMF (placed more like sidebacks). There's a lot of breathing room beyond that point, the forwards don't really track back as much like they used to, even with pressure buttons "taped down". Can't say it's smooth sailing in the midfield, but there's definitely lots of space. Honestly, I have more trouble playing against a normal formation + constant pressure, rather than a 4-2-4 + constant pressure.

I'm not sure how they should address this. Sometimes I think if people would like to play a certain way, they should be allowed to. I remember watching some games between Barca and R.Madrid 2 or 3 years ago, where RM's team shape at times was 4-2-4. They did that for about 45 mins in the 1st half. Barca had a lot of trouble with possession in their half.

I guess Konami should still allow players to play the way they want, but make certain decisions more punishable and the punishment more pronounced. This year, with the R and L stick controls, and the lessen effectiveness of pressure (against ball carriers who are not running), I think this is a step in the right direction. Stamina definitely needs to be much more pronounced, along with some other details.
 
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The formula is simple, really. The more you run, the more you tire. The less you have the ball, the more you tire. The more you tire, the less you run, the less you´ll have the ball.

Fast forwards are usually extremely weak defending or pressuring. Incomplete players for big, possession based teams.
Midfields are the beating heart of teams. You can have good defenders and forwards, but if your mids aren´t good, you´ll go nowhere, consistently.
This pes makes you believe it is the opposite. Wrong.
Another thing wrong with the game is how easily you get dispossessed even when not running. When i wasn´t running, dispossessing me (one defender only) was not a simple thing. Me, or any other footballer. Dispossessing anyone should, and must always be an action made by who defends, not a byproduct. Double pressure should be tactic based, mainly, not a press of a button. Tactics should be made with phases of matches in mind, in possession when building, defending after losing the ball, defending in own half, attacking from deep... it would promote real tactical battles, and prove why some players are much better than others, in real football and virtual world, not the fact they run more or shoot better. Sometimes one player suits a certain setup, and feels like a great player, and sometimes is just in the wrong team at the wrong time, and he doesn´t suit the setup.
A budget, the choice of playstyle, and then leagues to play, not random matches to win currency and points, wich mean little.
i dream with something like this, wich makes sense. Fed up with oriental cheeky ideas how a League online has to be. This is the fucking 21st century, not 1990. Sensible soccer showed everyone how it all should be done. Still the best football game ever, in my eyes.
 
Lami said:
Yeah I tried it and trying a combo of other stats to see if there is any difference.
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me too, spent a whole nigth in the training menu with my mate and we came to the final conclusion

- v1 the GK catches everything
- v2 the GK punches everything
- v3 the GK punches everything but sucks at closer range

mixing many stats like matt did last year globally with the outfield players, modifying even jump, speed, tenacity/mentality etc. only or combining them, without succes, GK needs to be tweaked in the exe, there could be some nice goals tho, much variety to them but i think the nextgen GK dont have enough animation) to balance the variety of the shots (dont want to come up with fifa but u tried that one for sure and u saw it too what im talking about, thats why they made him a super catchman
 
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Me!TheRaven said:
The formula is simple, really. The more you run, the more you tire. The less you have the ball, the more you tire. The more you tire, the less you run, the less you´ll have the ball.

Fast forwards are usually extremely weak defending or pressuring. Incomplete players for big, possession based teams.
Midfields are the beating heart of teams. You can have good defenders and forwards, but if your mids aren´t good, you´ll go nowhere, consistently.
This pes makes you believe it is the opposite. Wrong.
Another thing wrong with the game is how easily you get dispossessed even when not running. When i wasn´t running, dispossessing me (one defender only) was not a simple thing. Me, or any other footballer. Dispossessing anyone should, and must always be an action made by who defends, not a byproduct. Double pressure should be tactic based, mainly, not a press of a button. Tactics should be made with phases of matches in mind, in possession when building, defending after losing the ball, defending in own half, attacking from deep... it would promote real tactical battles, and prove why some players are much better than others, in real football and virtual world, not the fact they run more or shoot better. Sometimes one player suits a certain setup, and feels like a great player, and sometimes is just in the wrong team at the wrong time, and he doesn´t suit the setup.
A budget, the choice of playstyle, and then leagues to play, not random matches to win currency and points, wich mean little.
i dream with something like this, wich makes sense. Fed up with oriental cheeky ideas how a League online has to be. This is the fucking 21st century, not 1990. Sensible soccer showed everyone how it all should be done. Still the best football game ever, in my eyes.
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I agree that double pressure should probably be a formation feature. If this is the case, I'm also worried about the gameplay feeling overly per-programmed according to our tactics. I believe we will also need pronounced stats for defensive discipline and defensive aggression and defensive position sense, to introduce more individualistic defensive errors (e.g. when playing the wrong type of player for the job).

One thing I don't agree with is getting disposed while not running. I feel there is a huge difference from this year's PES14 compared to the previous versions. R+L stick movements (not talking about tricks, just regular turns etc.) enables me to shield the ball against incoming pressure. I can stay moderately still and shield the ball from pressure (no R1, no R2, just plain L-stick and R-stick maneuvers).
 
Until they enter in that arm to arm tussle that starts and ends unrrealistically,or double pressure is activated. Shame. not running allows a player to get a grasp of what´s around him and block clean challenges easily/normally, and then choose the next action properly. That´s why little technical players,fragile, even, can in the right setup, be the best for the job. In pes 14, why Xavi when a Matuidi does better for less money? Why Iniesta, when you can run and shoulder barge dribble with Montaño? Individuality in pes 14? Lost,completely lost.
 
L1 + R3 Lami! pes 2014 its the only pes im regularly using the manual keeper controls i never did in previous pes games and i must say its really effective and easy especially online you can block all lobbed shots(online exploit) with this :)


what inspired me to try and use the manual goalkeeper controls was from this video u can see it in action at 4:20~ minute mark

YouTube - PES 2014 Demo Gameplay Commentary with Tips - Italia vs Germany
 
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Jeez, this "striker stops running the moment he touches the ball" is absolutely killing me.

Every. Single. Time.

Through ball.

Striker runs alone towards the ball, all defenders left behind.

He touches the ball... And stops dead.

By the time he starts running again, defenders have come back and stolen the ball.

How on Earth can I address this crazy bug?????
 
Me!TheRaven said:
Until they enter in that arm to arm tussle that starts and ends unrrealistically,or double pressure is activated. Shame. not running allows a player to get a grasp of what´s around him and block clean challenges easily/normally, and then choose the next action properly. That´s why little technical players,fragile, even, can in the right setup, be the best for the job. In pes 14, why Xavi when a Matuidi does better for less money? Why Iniesta, when you can run and shoulder barge dribble with Montaño? Individuality in pes 14? Lost,completely lost.
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I'm confused. Are you saying you are allowed to do this or not allowed to do this in PES14?

You think there's more advantage to run and shoulder barge your way through the defense with Montano, than to wiggle through the gaps with Iniesta? Or are you saying it's impossible to wiggle through the gaps or avoid double pressure? If I'm using a play like Iniesta, I rarely get into the situation where I'm double pressured effectively? I really find it easy to beat pressuring defenders, if they predictably commit.

I also never commit and use arm tussle on players bigger than me (because I always lose in these battles), I just contain and wait for a chance, so I hardly feel an advantage of my opponent using stronger forward against me. If they run their way through my defense, I just run with them (or actually, ahead of them, let them have a few steps of space even).
 
shilamounainai said:
L1 + R3 Lami! pes 2014 its the only pes im regularly using the manual keeper controls i never did in previous pes games and i must say its really effective and easy especially online you can block all lobbed shots(online exploit) with this :)


what inspired me to try and use the manual goalkeeper controls was from this video u can see it in action at 4:20~ minute mark

YouTube - PES 2014 Demo Gameplay Commentary with Tips - Italia vs Germany
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I've been meaning to try this. Do you have any tips on using manual keeper controls? Are there special move sets/timing that would help saving specific types of shots? I also have trouble reading the incoming shot trajectory on that camera. Do you have to do any preemptive movements with the keeper?
 
vxcmplx said:
I've been meaning to try this. Do you have any tips on using manual keeper controls? Are there special move sets/timing that would help saving specific types of shots? I also have trouble reading the incoming shot trajectory on that camera. Do you have to do any preemptive movements with the keeper?
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manual keeper controls work best vs human opponents or online. all u got to do is move/place the keeper in a good position in front of the attacker or make him stay back if your anticipating a lob. also is very effective against free kicks i always select GK with L1+R3 and i move him in the center of my goalposts instead of his default position were on the left if the wall is on the right or vice versa. its all about positioning the rest he does automatically on his own for example saving shots u dont need to press anything whereas vs cpu you got to do all manually. O to dive for high balls, double press X to dive in the legs of the attacker or square
for normal shots. truth is i find it very difficult vs cpu though, 90% of the time my gk cant save the shot dives but cant make it to block the shot but again idk i play on superstar. cpu on superstar always finds a way to dribble or shield the ball in crazy ways probably its the same when is attacker vs my goalkeeper always find a way to score with tricky shots haha
 
To be honest, I think Konami needs to simplify things a little rather than give us multiple options on every facet of the game. It was nice to be able to quickly select a defender with just the right stick but now you need to press L1 and flick the right stick which introduces a little delay and complexity. I assume it's because the right stick on it's own is to control player weight. Maybe they could have an option to select how you want to use the right stick.

Keeper selection is a manual control, multiple levels of passing and shooting etc. They're trying to cater to many "suspected" audiences just to keep up with the Jones' and then people say "if you play on manual settings then the issue you're describing is a non-issue". I disagree.

The game should be fine tuned for default settings and then any options are there to cater for personal preferences...but the default settings should all work as advertised! Option files are understandable due to the licensing issue but people being ok with having to spend hours and hours tweaking indivdiual player stats and being a test environment for improved gameplay - come on guys, let's not keep getting taken advantage of.

I want to focus on passing moves, player selection, formations, team tactics etc - not on which combination of settings and button presses allows me to hit a shot with reasonable power and which might see the keeper make a realistic save attempt. That is Konami's job.
 
Gedtillo said:
Jeez, this "striker stops running the moment he touches the ball" is absolutely killing me.

Every. Single. Time.

Through ball.

Striker runs alone towards the ball, all defenders left behind.

He touches the ball... And stops dead.

By the time he starts running again, defenders have come back and stolen the ball.

How on Earth can I address this crazy bug?????
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I really have no issues with this :BORED:

The one that stood out for me last night was when playing in ACL, lobbed through ball to Gyan, running forward with his eyes back on the ball, chests it forward and continues running towards the goal, ball bounces and he caresses it gently pushing it forward, then bam goal :)

Loved every bit of it. His first touch was awesome and looked so natural and didn't break the play and immersion. Was just sweet.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
To be honest, I think Konami needs to simplify things a little rather than give us multiple options on every facet of the game. It was nice to be able to quickly select a defender with just the right stick but now you need to press L1 and flick the right stick which introduces a little delay and complexity. I assume it's because the right stick on it's own is to control player weight. Maybe they could have an option to select how you want to use the right stick.

Keeper selection is a manual control, multiple levels of passing and shooting etc. They're trying to cater to many "suspected" audiences just to keep up with the Jones' and then people say "if you play on manual settings then the issue you're describing is a non-issue". I disagree.

The game should be fine tuned for default settings and then any options are there to cater for personal preferences...but the default settings should all work as advertised! Option files are understandable due to the licensing issue but people being ok with having to spend hours and hours tweaking indivdiual player stats and being a test environment for improved gameplay - come on guys, let's not keep getting taken advantage of.

I want to focus on passing moves, player selection, formations, team tactics etc - not on which combination of settings and button presses allows me to hit a shot with reasonable power and which might see the keeper make a realistic save attempt. That is Konami's job.
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I agree with this. I hope for this in the next release, but for now I can only continue playing with my current setting to achieve satisfaction.

Still, I'd never mind some sort of global editor/slider. I still like tampering with stats.
 
Pes 5 is indeed still way better, not because it offers the more realistic football, it doesn't, it's more arcade, more scripted...but because per default it's way better set up and because the Cpu ai offers more varied attacking patterns.

It's not like pes 2014 couldn't easily offer these and more, it's just that Konami was lazy and didn't invest time and effort to set up the teams tactically in a somewhat realistic and varied way.

Just look how high the defense lines are for all teams and how defensively compact they all are.

And have you experienced how static your offense in most teams are per default?

They just stand around while you have the ball, cause the slider for shifting to attack is set up wrongly...

So yes regarding animation and ball control... and camera it reminds of Pes 5 but regarding tactical default set up it's a mere shadow of it.

Second the wish for global editing options for the console versions.
 
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Lami said:
I really have no issues with this :BORED:

The one that stood out for me last night was when playing in ACL, lobbed through ball to Gyan, running forward with his eyes back on the ball, chests it forward and continues running towards the goal, ball bounces and he caresses it gently pushing it forward, then bam goal :)

Loved every bit of it. His first touch was awesome and looked so natural and didn't break the play and immersion. Was just sweet.
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Am I seriously the only one experiencing this player slowdown the moment he receives the ball, allowing the defenders to get back into position?
 
I've been playing PES 2014 for 2 weeks.
Then I played Winning Eleven 2014 Asia version 1.00 for a month.
I bought Winning Eleven 2014 Japanese version and comes with 1.04 patch.

After playing all versions of the game, the best gameplay is on Asia Version 1.00, the patches that add online functionality ruins the gameplay in all versions. Asia Version 1.00 offline Proffesional is the best football game ever.
 
Gedtillo said:
Am I seriously the only one experiencing this player slowdown the moment he receives the ball, allowing the defenders to get back into position?
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I'm sure you're not the only one. You can't be seeing things.

I'm playing WE 2014 J if that helps.

Oh and I'm playing on Regular. I went down from Professional as I need a difficulty that will suit me for now and give me the fun I'm looking for. Maybe when I feel it's become too easy I might up it. I'm finding it challenging in the ACL but maybe I'm not that good. Suits me though as I'm enjoying it.
 
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I'm playing Legend, and it's a pain in the ass to see slow defenders like Pique catching lightning fast strikers like Robben due to this behavior.

Let me show a youtube example:

YouTube - PES 2014 - Amazing Goals

0:18 - Plenty of advantage for Striker vs Defender
0:20 - Defender has caught up with him
0:23 - A second defender has caught up too

2:42 - Winger gets ball unopposed.
2:43 - Winger fumbles with ball until fullback is able to catch up with him.

4:08 - Receives unopposed.
4:10 - Two guys have caught up with him... because of that split-second stop that forces him to reaccelerate every time.

It's like forwards were unable to keep their pace when first-touching a running ball from a through pass.

This should be enough to illustrate what I'm describing. It's more evident whenever there is plenty of space between striker and goal, as there is more run time and the slowdown becomes too blatant.

It sometimes happens that after a corner kick against my team I am able to get Robben or Walcott with plenty of running space ahead of them... and they somehow slow down up to an absurd point... so by the time they reach the box, slow guys like Pique have been able to cut a 10m+ advantage into nothing.

Am I doing anything wrong? Is it not enough to hold R1 anymore and double tap it from time to time to flick it forward a bit?
 
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Yes now I know what you mean. Maybe I haven't noticed it myself because whenever I wanted it under control I'd know he'd have to slow down so obviously they're going to catch up. When I want to receive the ball pushing it into space I'd double tap and keep running and it's worked for me every time. It's just an old PES habit that seems to still work. Maybe that's why I didn't see it. If I were to use only a single R1 tap and expect to take advantage of the space and see him slowing down to put it under control instead then yeah I'd feel something isn't right.

Try the double tap when receiving and hopefully it works for you.
 
Thanks Lami, will try and report the results.

Another question is: what do you see having a greater impact in player performance, heart or form state?
 
Actually I've never even paid attention to heart. It's either off or I just don't look at it. It should have an effect but I just find myself ignoring it.
 
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