PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Whatever they do next, it's all about what they did with the series up until this point. I'm all up for one or two new football games, but I deffo think PES would be better off dead.
 
I'm still waiting for fans of this years version to provide any defense of the goalkeepers and name ANY soccer title ever made with worse keepers. It's like playing Madden where the goal is 80 feet wide and you can never miss a field goal or extra point or a basketball game where the hoop is the size of a paddling pool so you can't miss a shot.
 
Ameppe said:
The way they develop Pes is too similar to Ps2 days and this is really bad for a modern videogame software house..
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Adam once said 200 people are working on the game. What are all these people doing? bullshit if you ask me. I am confident allot of people dont know what they are doing.

take the audio for example. Who is respsonible for that department? after 7 years you can conclude: no one!

they make you believe they are changing, but they only changed the face = Seabass being replaced. Seabass coudn;t handle next-gen so he is now focussing on some kind of ps2 version of pes.

KONAMI doesn't want to invest. instead of doing this they refuse not knowing the consequences. this game can make a yearly profit that could easily pay a team of over 300 people. But no, they wanna be cheap.
 
I think people here are really over-dramatising.

Sure Konami didn't deliver a polished problemfree game, but people underappreciate what Komani did by bringing PES onto a completely new engine.

And many people don't like the new philosophy of the gameplay. But they seem to overlook the fact that this is how football is played in real life if they like it or not.

For me PES 2014 offers the best football-gameplay on the pitch since PES 5. It's not perfect and needs imho these improvements:

1. The AI needs to be more clever, more challenging, more varied, without resorting to cheating.

2. Currently close control is per default always on. I wished that close control were optional, that you need to press a button to use it or that you need to use the left stick in slight touches to use it.

3. Shooting needs more varied trajectories.

4. More pronounced individuality for the players.

5. A two tiered stamina/fatigue-system.

But Konami created a good groundwork on which it can build up on. The animation and physics are good, the ballphysics are good, the passing on zerobar is great, the AI in the midfield is good...
 
henrys hand said:
I think people here are really over-dramatising.

Sure Konami didn't deliver a polished problemfree game, but people underappreciate what Komani did by bringing PES onto a completely new engine.

And many people don't like the new philosophy of the gameplay. But they seem to overlook the fact that this is how football is played in real life if they like it or not.

For me PES 2014 offers the best football-gameplay on the pitch since PES 5. It's not perfect and needs imho these improvements:

1. The AI needs to be more clever, more challenging, more varied, without resorting to cheating.

2. Currently close control is per default always on. I wished that close control were optional, that you need to press a button to use it or that you need to use the left stick in slight touches to use it.

3. Shooting needs more varied trajectories.

4. More pronounced individuality for the players.

5. A two tiered stamina/fatigue-system.

But Konami created a good groundwork on which it can build up on. The animation and physics are good, the ballphysics are good, the passing on zerobar is great, the AI in the midfield is good...
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So you honestly don't see any need to improve goalkeepers who let in every shot taken from 12 yards or closer?
 
TheWolf said:
So you honestly don't see any need to improve goalkeepers who let in every shot taken from 12 yards or closer?
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I'm still thinking about that, cause in real life football it is often so, that when you are alone in front of the goalkeeper, having left behind the last defender, it is way more often than not that strikers score when they shoot.

So often that people curse and are surprised if he missed in that opportunity.

So yes in close range it is very difficult for a goalkeeper, because the time to react is very little, the time to predict the trajectory of the ball is not there... while long range shots are easier to keep check of.

But I'm not sure if Konami have found the right formula or balance here.
 
_anderson said:
Whatever they do next, it's all about what they did with the series up until this point. I'm all up for one or two new football games, but I deffo think PES would be better off dead.
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Come on, nobody wants that to happen. I would hate for EA to get a stranglehold on the football game market like they have with the NFL. The chances of another developer entering the market are very slim whether PES lives or dies. All football gamers need PES.

That said, I do fear for the future of PES if Konami don't change the way they operate. Making a push into South American and Asian markets is a smart move and will keep the series afloat, but certainly here in the UK fewer and fewer people care about PES with each passing year.
 
The problem with the goalkeepers is not wether they act like real life goalkeeper. the problem is that they are programmaed really bad. why is it that after the first save they take their time to get up. I have had many moments where the goalkeeper makes a save, takes his time and just stands there watching how the attacker makes another strike.

Goalkeepers dont position themself right when the attacker comes from the side.

This whole discussion about wether they are acting human or super human is not what we should be discussing, because the goalkeepers are just to awful to begin with. people justifying this are in denial. goalkeepers are just awful! period.

In FIFA I sometimes see the goalkeeper make 3 saves after each other, is that realistic? I don't know, but it sure looks great and makes for exciting games. I don't think they should tone it down. but with pes we can't even talk about toning them down, because KONAMI can't get the basics right.

Another thing that is bothering me is that when you strike from a distance the goalkeepers dont move a inch. then when the ball comes close they make this ridiculous dive backwards... I mean WTF!!! anyone justifying those stupid actions....is beyond me...
 
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TheWolf said:
I'm still waiting for fans of this years version to provide any defense of the goalkeepers and name ANY soccer title ever made with worse keepers. It's like playing Madden where the goal is 80 feet wide and you can never miss a field goal or extra point or a basketball game where the hoop is the size of a paddling pool so you can't miss a shot.
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Keepers need improving, especially in regards to their responsiveness, but they're not as bad as you and some others make out. At the end of the day score lines are realistic and in line with real world football.
 
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I didn't say I wanted FIFA to "take-over", just that I'd rather have seen an alternative take PES place instead of enduring this yearly madness of waiting for a good PES to come along but end up not having a proper football game to play the whole year since 2005.
 
_anderson said:
I didn't say I wanted FIFA to "take-over", just that I'd rather have seen an alternative take PES place instead of enduring this yearly madness of waiting for a good PES to come along but end up not having a proper football game to play the whole year since 2005.
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I'd rather have an alternative that isn't PES if I'm being honest, but I don't see it happening. Football is the most popular sport in the world and is such a lucrative market that if a third company considered it viable to cash-in on it, they would have done so before now.

FIFA and PES collectively hold all of the licenses between them. I don't think there is a mainstream audience for a mostly unlicensed football game in this day and age.

Even if PES was to disappear, I'm sure EA would scoop up the lucrative licenses like the Champions League, Europa League and Libertadores.
 
Jamezinho said:
Excellent post, Northzzz.

PES has lost its way, there's no doubt about that in my mind. We often talk about the PES magic and soul, but it's true, those old games had these qualities and it was abundantly clear after only a few plays.

PES 2014 doesn't have that magic, the character, the drama, the sense of unpredictability that made the old games great. It feels like the game has an identity crisis. Konami don't know what they are doing with this series, what direction they wish to take it in, nor who their audience is.

It used to be a quirky, parochial football game, but that was why it was so good.
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To be honest You have to say Your opinion about soul and magic not only about Pes 2014 but about:

Pes 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. All these games didn't have magic and soul like old Pes from Ps2 days. It's not fair to judge only Pes 2014 in these aspects.
 
henrys hand said:
And many people don't like the new philosophy of the gameplay. But they seem to overlook the fact that this is how football is played in real life if they like it or not.
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Sorry I can't agree with that. I don't see anything realistic in the gameplay. It's all through pass, down the middle or over the top into the wings then near post pass. Over and over. Plus the fact that the game is so repetiive in passing moves and goals scored, it instantly becomes unrealistic.

Not to mention the AI pressing all match with no stamina effects of any description, and it all adds up to a really unrealistic representation of the game IMO.
 
AIR92 said:
See this article:
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/87014/PES+2014%3A+%22We+could+lose+every+fan+we%27ve+ever+had%22/
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Thanks for the link, I'd never read that article with Jon Murphy before. Was very interesting.

This line is a laugh though;

'Murphy explained the reason behind the focus on current-gen consoles: "We couldn't do everything in one year... We could have produced a next-gen version of PES and ignored the current fans and brought out a lazy version, but then what does that mean to our fanbase?"'

So, Konami say no next gen version was developed because they didn't have time and they were thinking of the fans?

They directly didn't want to produce a lazy version? What is this then? Terrible game modes, online that doesn't work, huge technical issues on PS3, broken keeper AI, dodgy defensive AI, tons of stuff stripped out, but hey, Konami gave us this in case we didn't like the next gen version.

Also, I can't believe the video in that link. It claims were that players who can provide a lift for their team will have stats giving them high motivation etc, and that motivation will directly link to players, crowd and COMMENTARY. Eh? I can't see much evidence of any of this in my game. Player form seems random, as does heart. I played a CL and Bale was on blue/purple arrows and low heart the entire tournament. Why? I don't know.
 
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henrys hand said:
I think people here are really over-dramatising.

Sure Konami didn't deliver a polished problemfree game, but people underappreciate what Komani did by bringing PES onto a completely new engine.

And many people don't like the new philosophy of the gameplay. But they seem to overlook the fact that this is how football is played in real life if they like it or not.

For me PES 2014 offers the best football-gameplay on the pitch since PES 5. It's not perfect and needs imho these improvements:

1. The AI needs to be more clever, more challenging, more varied, without resorting to cheating.

2. Currently close control is per default always on. I wished that close control were optional, that you need to press a button to use it or that you need to use the left stick in slight touches to use it.

3. Shooting needs more varied trajectories.

4. More pronounced individuality for the players.

5. A two tiered stamina/fatigue-system.

But Konami created a good groundwork on which it can build up on. The animation and physics are good, the ballphysics are good, the passing on zerobar is great, the AI in the midfield is good...
Click to expand...

Spot on, totally agree. It doesn't matter what they bring out it still won't be good enough for some people.
 
alright here is 2 kind of people:

1. who had enough of the bullshit of Konami after many years
2. the other who blindly love Konami and hope in it still

the one inbetween is very rare
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Sorry I can't agree with that. I don't see anything realistic in the gameplay. It's all through pass, down the middle or over the top into the wings then near post pass. Over and over. Plus the fact that the game is so repetiive in passing moves and goals scored, it instantly becomes unrealistic.

Not to mention the AI pressing all match with no stamina effects of any description, and it all adds up to a really unrealistic representation of the game IMO.
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Spot on. Just playing PES 6 for a few matches made me realize how incredibly monotonous PES 2014 is, chances created the same way over and over. Not very realistic when you see how many different ways people score in real life football.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Nope. Have you installed the game to the HDD?
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Yes, I have installed the game on to HDD.

Can some explain me what could cause this?

EDIT: Problem is loading time.
Starting up the game > 1min20s
Hit kick-off on pitch > around 1 minute wait

I use Daymos OF v2
 
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yasujiro said:
Last two days I'm playing Winning Eleven 2014 Japanese version 1.05 with TV settings 576p and I'm enjoying the old PS2 look. Anyone tried these TV settings?
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I've been playing at 576p too (PS3 here). This clearly demonstrates the PS3 can't handle this new engine or at least that the code was not optmized enough.

Oddly, after the patch, training mode does not feel that much different from an exhibition match, but it feels like they fixed the frame rate in training mode to be more like exhibition matches.

I would love to see a frame rate test on Pes 2014 on PS3.

Did any video games site did one?
 
Discussing the game on here made me put the game on for the first time in a while. I got to just into my second match before turning it off, how anyone thinks this is realistic is absolutely baffling. In just over one game I saw the AI relentlessly sprinting around the pitch like cyborgs, spammed me with long balls over the top and those passes into the near post, hit lofted crosses into the near post, tried hitting me on fast breaks over and over using the through pass, and I saw THREE appalling keeper errors in pretty much one game. All three goals were from crappy shots at waist height, into the middle of the goal, straight at the keeper who didn't need to move, and he angled his body virtually towards his own net and deflected the ball in for no reason whatsoever.

I genuinely don't think this game works on any level. If people think keepers in particular are fine then they must be choosing to ignore it, plain an simple.
 
I don't know if Konami have done this already, but maybe they should do something similar to what EA did with NBA Live in terms of an open letter to the fans explaining that it's a work in progress.

I'll give Konami one more chance to redeem themselves when they bring out a game on PS4 next year.

There is only so many chances I can keep giving Konami until enough is enough, which is hard because I really want to see them deliver for once!
 
This game, post-patch, top difficulty (0 speed, 1 bar 15 minutes) is simply the worse football game I've played in years. The CPU AI design is simply mental and if that's the route they're going, I'm out. It's not about the redults, it's about how it plays and how it forces you to play. It's about reducing your freedom to express yourself and play mechanically.

The relentless pressure, cyborg tackling and through ball fest makes for the shallowest footy this gen. There was some promise in this new engine, and at professional level prepatch there were instances of brilliance plagued with terrible implementation. Now they have shitted on the promising things and have resorted to the most primitive collection of cheats, boosts and dirty tricks snd scripting to try to hide the unexistant awareness and poor and stupid CPU AI.

The result is a complete mess and an even shallower game. Right now there's still less individuality and all CPU teams play exactly the same terminator style football. It's usual to see CPU players running faster than the ball itself. It's just ridiculous.

And that's it. I won't spend months playing an easier mode to find some moments of brilliance amongdt the dullnesd of everything else. The game is flat. And konami is slowly getting out of the picture.
 
People can't blame nostalgia for the focus on PES 5/6/2007 and how it made them feel because if you go back and play those games now, other than the obvious limitations (limited directions, faster gameplay, etc.) there are a ton of things which work great which 8 years later are as broken as can be. The title at worst, should have stayed still with the ps3//360/pc versions simply being the same as 6/2007 but with more directions, slower gameplay and better graphics. Sure we could bemoan the lack of progress in the series but at least people would still love the game. The Fox engine might be beautiful in terms of graphics and I do love the quality of that but the gameplay sucks. 8 years and the ai is worse, the shooting is worse, the keepers are worse, the offensive/defensive options are more one dimensional and the patches to correct things come later than ever or not at all.

Loving PES 5/6/2007 isn't about nostalgia, it's about appreciating something that everybody believed, bar a few tweaks, was within view of almost the perfect footy game. 2014 is more than a few tweaks away.

I think perhaps the staff (this Adam dude included) just don't know what their consumers want. Seabass did and 5/6/2007 and we9le were the gold standard that to date has never been bettered. Adam doesn't even know when patches are arriving or what's in them, it always leaks from elsewhere. How much testing do you think the team did to not notice the ridiculous slowdowns pre-patch? Did somebody really look at those keepers and think "yeah, it's realistic for a keeper to turn his body for a snails pace shot hit at him from 8 yards and deflect it into the net almost every freaking time"?

It took almost a mass exodus from FIFA for ea sports to change their ways, unglue the ball from the players feet, lose the one-dimensional offense, get rid of the zippy gameplay and although the series still lacks the soul of PES 5/6/2007, it has at least gone forward. PES hasn't progressed. The gameplay goes two steps forward three steps back some years then does the following year takes three steps forward and two steps back so it improves a little but then goes backwards again the following year.

We've been promised greatness for 8 years and all we've got here at the end of 2013 is what we would have been pissed off at (except for the graphics and editing variations) back in 2005.

To return to the girlfriend comparison, PES 6 was an average looking girl who was great at almost everything, sex, friendship, funny and always fun to be around. PES 2014 is a beautiful girlfriend who is crap in bed, uninteresting, no fun and as thick as shit.

We need two titles but we're at the point where PES is pressuring ea sports to improve FIFA about as much as my 160 shot round of golf has Tiger Woods looking over his shoulder.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Thanks for the link, I'd never read that article with Jon Murphy before. Was very interesting.

This line is a laugh though;

'Murphy explained the reason behind the focus on current-gen consoles: "We couldn't do everything in one year... We could have produced a next-gen version of PES and ignored the current fans and brought out a lazy version, but then what does that mean to our fanbase?"'

So, Konami say no next gen version was developed because they didn't have time and they were thinking of the fans?

They directly didn't want to produce a lazy version? What is this then? Terrible game modes, online that doesn't work, huge technical issues on PS3, broken keeper AI, dodgy defensive AI, tons of stuff stripped out, but hey, Konami gave us this in case we didn't like the next gen version.

Also, I can't believe the video in that link. It claims were that players who can provide a lift for their team will have stats giving them high motivation etc, and that motivation will directly link to players, crowd and COMMENTARY. Eh? I can't see much evidence of any of this in my game. Player form seems random, as does heart. I played a CL and Bale was on blue/purple arrows and low heart the entire tournament. Why? I don't know.
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It is pretty funny. It is not okay to produce a sub par game next gen, so let's make a sub par game this gen; incredible idea! I'm with a few people with this one to keep fine tuning the old engine. There isn't any point moving to a new engine, until you get a proper game showing off the engine.

I seem to notice heart, but it's only a slight change. I played Manchester United vs Cardiff, and won 6-0; with Wayne Rooney scoring a hat trick. He started with a green heart, and after two goals, he moved to red. Funny thing is, what i've noticed is; majority of the players don't seem to be effected by this 'boost'; a few players that started with blue/green heart stayed with green heart. I'm saying majority because i'm not entirely sure; I was only really paying attention to one player anyway.

I'm still playing pre-patch, still waiting for the new patches that need the no-dvd version of pes 2014. Is the pressure really that terrible post-patch? I've heard of people having problems with pressure pre-patch. On superstar or professional difficulty, i've never had problems with pressure; it takes ages to get to top speed this year with the slow acceleration, plus its so easy to use the slightly op physicality to shield the ball and turn the man. You get abit of headroom to dribble, and it is pretty easy to juke the man and pass him.

The tankiness and overpressure feel you get is probably when your player receives the ball, or when your player gets in close proximity to the opposition; you get sucked into that 'animation lock' and suddenly you can't turn easily or do anything easily. It gets so terrible that not only turning gets effected; passes and tackling (double tapping x) actually take centuries to trigger. This is usually the point where your guy runs into another player losing the ball, or you just lose the ball from secondary player pressure; there is nothing you can do about it.

Speaking of double tapping x; i've tested it more and more and using it regularly in a match. It is definitely more effective this year, it's alot more accurate; especially compared to last year where double tapping x is almost a guarantee foul.
 
For the next version, they quite simply need to capture as many animations as possible. If you want to have a game that really will play out with the unpredictability of real life football, there needs to a be a large variety of possible outcomes from each interaction of player to player or ball to player. You can't just shift form arrows around to make the game seem more varied.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record but until they capture enough animations for goalkeepers, other aspects of the game will be hamstrung and held back, with shooting being the main victim. Once they have enough animations they have to code them properly. And they seriously need to smooth out the current animations - too many of them have a stop start feeling.

e.g. Going from walking to sprinting, running sometimes looks like you're on a treadmill, shooting animations often look like you're slicing across the ball rather than having a backlift then kicking "through" the ball. Keepers that catch balls when they should be tipping the ball over the bar or wide. Fixing these immersion breakers should be the number 1 priority if they really think gameplay is key. Because these things will create the feeling (even if the reality doesn't exist) that every game is different and that you can score different goals or build up the play differently.

Had a few games of FIFA at my mates place the other night and 1 v 1 I had a blast. Thought I'd check out the demo again at my place last night and even on Slow speed setting it's just way too fast for me. So I won't be buying that but I'll play it at my mates place. Put on the PES demo as I've been thinking about buying and trialling the full version now the patch is out but I'm definitely not buying it after playing the demo again. The issues I listed above are just too much of a deal breaker at this point in time.

They've been putting in band aid solutions in now just to bring out an annual release but they really should have taken a year or two out and released a finished game that is polished all over.
 
drekkard said:
This game, post-patch, top difficulty (0 speed, 1 bar 15 minutes) is simply the worse football game I've played in years. The CPU AI design is simply mental and if that's the route they're going, I'm out. It's not about the redults, it's about how it plays and how it forces you to play. It's about reducing your freedom to express yourself and play mechanically.

The relentless pressure, cyborg tackling and through ball fest makes for the shallowest footy this gen. There was some promise in this new engine, and at professional level prepatch there were instances of brilliance plagued with terrible implementation. Now they have shitted on the promising things and have resorted to the most primitive collection of cheats, boosts and dirty tricks snd scripting to try to hide the unexistant awareness and poor and stupid CPU AI.

The result is a complete mess and an even shallower game. Right now there's still less individuality and all CPU teams play exactly the same terminator style football. It's usual to see CPU players running faster than the ball itself. It's just ridiculous.

And that's it. I won't spend months playing an easier mode to find some moments of brilliance amongdt the dullnesd of everything else. The game is flat. And konami is slowly getting out of the picture.
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I guess, it wants to fix last year's game where there is slowed down sprint, when a player is running forward to receive the ball. Unfortunately, this year, sometimes he would just sprint without slowed down and suddenly stop to trap the ball which looks unnatural. Completely the opposite.

I am not sure, but current mechanic of a player receiving a ball is that he would automatically run/sprint to it no matter you press direction + sprint or not. It has been like this in PES series.

However, it is fine for close range pass when it is impossible for us to move our player relative to ball speed at adequate time. But for through ball, long pass, i would love to see the receiving player run/sprint about three or four steps, then the control is back to our gamepad. There is some adjustment by the engine to our path to the ball but it shouldn't take control of our player pace. Just adjustment towards the trajectory and direction of the ball.

In other areas, i've talked to adam on twitter where he agreed that sometimes the action for ball trapping has too much touches. It leads to wobbling experience. I think it can not be patched since it includes animation preset. Hopefully, it is one thing they look at for next PES. I would love to see more pronounced bad/good first touch, ball trapping individuality, rather than completely depends on RT button.
 
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