PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Suarez75 said:
That game is broken and unfinished in so many ways.
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Do you even know the contextual meaning of "broken"?

Broken in this context means "incomplete" unless you mean it's physically broken in two or more pieces which is impossible since it's not a physical item. So, why you would run around saying "this game is incomplete and unfinished" is quite interesting... It's comparable to saying "I have a pain in my head and a headache" or "I have an ache in my tooth and a toothache" as if they were two separate things.

1. Forcibly separated into two or more pieces; fractured: a broken arm; broken glass.
2. Sundered by divorce, separation, or desertion of a parent or parents: children from broken homes; a broken marriage.
3. Having been violated: a broken promise.
4.
a. Incomplete: a broken set of books. (In this case Incomplete or lack of coding/fine tuning)
b. Being in a state of disarray; disordered: troops fleeing in broken ranks.
5.
a. Intermittently stopping and starting; discontinuous: a broken cable transmission.
b. Varying abruptly, as in pitch: broken sobs.
c. Spoken with gaps and errors: broken English.
6. Topographically rough; uneven: broken terrain.
7.
a. Subdued totally; humbled: a broken spirit.
b. Weakened and infirm: broken health.
8. Crushed by grief: died of a broken heart.
9. Financially ruined; bankrupt.
10. Not functioning; out of order: a broken washing machine.


1) The game may not be to your liking, but that doesn't mean it's "broken".

2) Have you ever played real life sports emulation that is actually any good? I haven't and I've played them all. So I am curious to which standards you compare this "broken" game to of all the other "broken" games that makes this one come out so bad in your opinion.


I have played sports games that have had a better outcome than footy games in general, but they weren't good but rather less bad. That being said, I've enjoyed footy games more as I like that sport better and in the end the game makes or breaks largely on how you choose to approach it.

Look at combat games for example, how real do you think a computer game can represent melee combat? Not in the slightest. A game like Dark Souls have a fairly good melee combat engine as it gives you a lot of possibilities to vary strategy and approach to the fight. I like it. However it's piss poor compared to real life combat re-enactment for example. A computer game may possibly render 10% of the real thing and that's about it. What I am saying is that you may have too high expectations to how lifelike a computer programmer can re-create a match with 22 individual football players and a bunch of rules some of which only the most interested fans know of. Not to mention that every single game is different in real life, so anyone saying "football is like this" is bound to be wrong to begin with. Football is different in different countries, and there are huge differences within each country. How many combinations of football do you think that adds up to?

Lastly, "broken" is not constructive or explaining in any way but I agree that it's a simple way to seem like you know a little something about something. I suspect you don't, like most of us. So a simple "I didn't like the game, better luck next time" would probably be better. It's not like Konami owe you to create exactly the game you wanted.

I personally think the game is "not great but interesting" so I am not among the fanbois myself.
 
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Tried to play Top difficulty and the game turns into a mess of pressure, stupidity, cheats and pathetic instances of absent AI. One of the worse sessions I've had with this game. Professional difficulty plays a lot nicer but it's a tad too easy, as I'm winning all my matches comfortably.

I can't stand where a game totally overrides your commands and decides what to do to fuck you. Top difficulty will totally infuriate me, so maybe it's the end of PES for me this season. This is what is it about:

Mediocre awareness standing out even more? Check!
Messi missing two open nets even if he's one meter away from the goal line just to create drama even if aimed straight? Check!
Making shots go to the post to balance result? Check!
My goalkeeper suddenly parrying balls to the feet of oncoming strikers for the tap in? Check!
My players missing shots by the same inches every time? Check!
Me doing 14 shots on goal but drawing because CPU got 1 and it went in? Check!
CPU doing the first post low cross or a through ball as all possible atacking patterns? Check!
My players being dispossessed from behind by terminators? Check!
My players stuttering when pushed while the CPU won't? Check!
Being unable to shoot in area scrambles because of terrible reaction times? Check!
No fouls awarded when the game gets in the final third? Check!
Not a single penalty or red card? Check!
CPU players tackling and physicality completely ignoring stats? Check!
No stamina affecting CPU even if they press like madmen all the match? Check!
All long balls can be accurate no matter the stats? Check!

The list goes on and on. It's just the same old boring collection of cheats and boosts, of very limited AI scope. Professional difficulty hinted for a more slow paced game, a thinking one. Top,difficulty shits on it. CPU plays like shit and makes you play like shit. Why would anyone play Like this? I'm tired of this pressure fest, really. I like Professional difficulty because alll this problems aren't that apparent, but it's too easy and won't be rewarding.

Console shut down. In a week I'll have Nba 2k for my PS4 and doubt I will return to this. Feels primitive in all aspects. It has good intentions and very good ideas and sometimes plays very well, but it's not enough anymore.
 
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Suarez75 said:
You see that's just bollocks mate i'm sorry. Don't play fifa online, play it off, set custom sliders and stick it on manual controls, edit some team tactics for variety and tell me its souless?
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Yes, its very soulless and outdated in terms of realism. Here:

YouTube - FIFA 14 Sliders: Everton (user) v Chelsea (cpu)
YouTube - Fifa 14 Dynamic Legendary Manual Sliders Man U vs R Sociedad (me) 1st half 0-0
YouTube - FIFA 14 | Randers FC vs Jeonbuk FC | beautifutboLman's SimCade Manual Sliders

Every player, and there are 3 different players in this video plays the same way, no plan to any attack, just pass, wait for a space then look for a sweetspot angle.

You can see the main problem aside from the lack of proper AI. There is no change of pace or variation in the game whatsoever, Its played at one pace and one pace only, this is a outdated interpretation of football PES left behind years ago, this is easy, your just changing settings about to give a pleasurable feeling rather than challenging yourself by simulating a football match.

Football is Dynamic, first and foremost. Here is one example of many i can choose: FIFA fails at this because instead of balancing out the passing mechanics, they have left them totally broken since they introduced 'pro passing' back in FIFA 11. EA never build a game from wisdom, they do 'clever' ideas which ruin the balance of the game making the game, ever more one dimensional each year. Ping pong passing was an issue, but instead of making it harder due to individual passing ability they have removed the short passing game altogether, so when you play FIFA, your forced to pass, then wait, then pass then wait, you always have to play slowly, this is not realistic. This is tedious, unimaginative and plain boring and something i used to do years ago with FIFA.

The typical 'realistic' slider settings on FIFA is to pass the ball around aimlessly regardless of individuals wait to exploit a typical AI error then score from the usual sweetspot. No tactics, individuality, stat relevance whatsoever hence why it's soulless.

This is too piss easy and plays like your ego wants to play rather than the game through tactics offering you totally different challenges depending on every opponent, being home or away, form, morale and how your individuals fit the system. This is better for me than doing the same thing, passing, passing over and over again slowly. Great football games take time to master, FIFA's sliders give an 'instant' gratification for about a month, then typical you change them, then you change them every two weeks, then more and more and you keep constantly changing them because you get tired of doing the same thing over and over.

This is the most basic aspect of football. Having a 'plan' and the plan the 'game plan, depends on your individuals strengths and your opponent.

Think about it, If EA had a genuine intention for realism, they provide a basis for sliders which open the game up like NBA 2K, other games have done this with Sliders designed in presets which can be costumed to give a experience the user prefers. FIFA 14 is tedious and horrible on the default settings because the game is inherently tedious and boring in regards to depth.

FIFA is at it's best for me when played in a casual way. I used to slate FIFA 10 but as a fun game it was great, along with 09 and the world cup game. FIFA 11 was good for fun also, since then FIFA hasn't been as fun because EA don't balance their game out properly, just using cheap tricks he make the game end up being even more one dimensional.

Don't even get me started on EA's AI, it's non existent, they are still programmed to score from certain angles still. this is 2013, not 2004. Hence why in the Chelsea game you see that same old bug goal from a corner which always goes in from that angle.

Please feel free to post a video proving we wrong!:)) After the FIFA 14 demo i saw the inherent problems still there.
 
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drekkard said:
Tried to play Top difficulty and the game turns into a mess of pressure, stupidity, cheats and pathetic instances of absent AI. One of the worse sessions I've had with this game. Professional difficulty plays a lot nicer but it's a tad too easy, as I'm winning all my matches comfortably.
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All i could advise on professional is maybe change the passing settings, unless they are on 1 bar or 0 already.

Maybe if you ever do a new season try modifying the tactics for teams since they are all setup quite similar, so once you beat one and get momentum you should start getting on a roll in Master League. Some of the default settings really aren't organized well at all.
 
klashman69 said:
All i could advise on professional is maybe change the passing settings, unless they are on 1 bar or 0 already.

Maybe if you ever do a new season try modifying the tactics for teams since they are all setup quite similar, so once you beat one and get momentum you should start getting on a roll in Master League. Some of the default settings really aren't organized well at all.
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I play PES since ISS PRO 98. On PS2 series I had the same trouble with higher difficulties, every year I used to play on Professional and lower the stats of my players to have more challenging matches.
 
yasujiro said:
I play PES since ISS PRO 98. On PS2 series I had the same trouble with higher difficulties, every year I used to play on Professional and lower the stats of my players to have more challenging matches.
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Seems there is one difficulty level missing between Pro and Top Player. But maybe that's just wishful thinking, that this would solve all the issues.
 
I've always set mine to 1 bar but it doesn't seem to work as well this time around.
What seems to be the best settings for 2014
 
In Edit mode I've found an Ability of the players called 'Defensive prowess' as 'Indicates how quickly a player can respond to the ball when team is defending'. Maybe uppering this stat in our team goalkepper and defenders we can solve players awareness issue.
 
Tried playing on professional, it was way too easy, I could easily dribble through the defense and score at will.

I'm playing with zero bar and on game speed 0 with everything as manual as possible except for shooting which I have on basic.

Tried also superstar difficulty, it was also too easy to score but for different reasons: The defenders are too aggressive and therefore leave huge gaps that can be exploited with a pass.

So for me the sweet spot right now is with difficulty-level on top-player and zero bar-passing and 25 min matches.

Even though passing is on zero bar I find it too assisted with some wild blind passing finding the right way.
 
Jamezinho said:
+1
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+2

Rob has contributed more quality discussion to this forum in the past 2 years than this fucking jobsworth moderator ever has. Who even is this guy anyway?

Always the same on every forum. Some chap gets a title to his name so feels the need to throw his weight around. Get a grip man.
 
dannyfc2 said:
+2

Rob has contributed more quality discussion to this forum in the past 2 years than this fucking jobsworth moderator ever has. Who even is this guy anyway?

Always the same on every forum. Some chap gets a title to his name so feels the need to throw his weight around. Get a grip man.
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Seriously, what's with that language? That "chap" has been around here wayyyy longer than you as far as I can tell, keeping up with bullshit all over the site on a daily basis you don't even know existed. So show some respect and manners, that "chap" is one of the reasons this site still exists.

Regarding the Rob issue: There's only one guy to blame and it's Rob himself. Nobody else. Getting into an argument with a mod publicly, no matter if you're right or wrong, just isn't an overly smart move. He's been told to let it go, yet he didn't listen and kept on provoking, playing the snotty tough guy because he knew you guys would support him no matter what. Then, ooops, warnings added up to a temp ban. Instead of taking this as a sign to cool off for a few days (he would have been unbanned after a day or three anyway), he decided to go the jerk route by simply creating a new account to continue his little private war, thus ignoring previous warnings and bans. It was then Lami who warned and finally banned him again. He then registered again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And 20 minutes ago he even posted again. The same ol' shit that got him where he is right now, adding nothing but fuel to this without a single word of mayyyyybe having overreacted a tad.

Rob, you're going to read this anyway, so here's what's up: You're on shoot-on-sight for now and so are your posts. For how long, that's really up to you. Every new account you create or posting you leave in here will slow down that clock. Choose wisely if it's really worth it.

@Everyone else: It's a nice thing of you to stand up for him. It really is and it's still one of the very reasons I love this place. But I'm not letting one of our mods be treated like a dickhead. By no one. If you guys are not happy with this, then I'm sorry. But this isn't up for discussion and I'd like all of you to return back on topic. Thank you.
 
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Tom said:
Seriously, what's with that language? That "chap" has been around here wayyyy longer than you as far as I can tell, keeping up with bullshit all over the site on a daily basis you don't even know existed. So show some respect and manners, that "chap" is one of the reasons this site still exists.

Regarding the Rob issue: There's only one guy to blame and it's Rob himself. Nobody else. Getting into an argument with a mod publicly, no matter if you're right or wrong, just isn't an overly smart move. He's been told to let it go, yet he didn't listen and kept on provoking, playing the tough guy because he knew you guys would support him no matter what. Then, ooops, warnings added up to a temp ban. Instead of taking this as a sign to cool off for a few days (he would have been unbanned after a day or three anyway), he decided to go the jerk route by simply creating a new account to continue his little private war, thus ignoring previous warnings and bans. It was then Lami who warned and finally banned him again. He then registered again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And 20 minutes ago he even posted again. The same ol' shit that got him where he is right now, adding nothing but fuel to this without a single word of mayyyyybe having overreacted a tad.

Rob, you're going to read this anyway, so here's what's up: You're on shoot-on-sight for now and so are your posts. For how long, that's really up to you. Every new account you create or posting you leave in here will slow down that clock. Choose wisely if it's really worth it.

@Everyone else: It's a nice thing of you to stand up for him. It really is and it's still one of the very reasons I love this place. But I'm not letting one of our mods be treated like a dickhead. By no one. If you guys are not happy with this, then I'm sorry. But this isn't up for discussion and I'd like all of you to return back on topic. Thank you.
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thank you.
 
Tom said:
Seriously, what's with that language? That "chap" has been around here wayyyy longer than you as far as I can tell, keeping up with bullshit all over the site on a daily basis you don't even know existed. So show some respect and manners, that "chap" is one of the reasons this site still exists.

Regarding the Rob issue: There's only one guy to blame and it's Rob himself. Nobody else. Getting into an argument with a mod publicly, no matter if you're right or wrong, just isn't an overly smart move.
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That's nonsense. Moderation isn't a pass that validates each and every one of your arguments. What you post is open to as much scrutiny as anyone else.

The active community on here has been pretty diminutive as PES' popularity has waned in recent years. Rob has been one of a select few that has maintained an active level of discussion. Banning him over a difference of opinion is incredibily petty and indicative of a over-inflated ego.

If you want to moderate fine. No-one is forcing you to do it. But don't use it to exert a false sense of worth and as a tool to flex your internet muscles.

Given the state of PES 14, comparisons with FIFA are inevitable and a viable discussion point. Trying to suppress that is ridiculous, let alone banning someone for it.
 
Don't make up reasons for the bannage that don't exist. He wasn't banned for having a different opinion, he was banned for his shitty attitude that followed. Did you even read what I wrote after the part you quoted?
 
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dannyfc2 said:
+2

Rob has contributed more quality discussion to this forum in the past 2 years than this fucking jobsworth moderator ever has. Who even is this guy anyway?
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Hey. This post is bang out of order. You not knowing what superleeds has been contributing to this site doesn't give you any right to say that. That is your problem, not his. Completely disrespectful. And if you really want to compare, superleeds has done TONS than you'd ever imagine. His work on here can never be compared to any of Rob's contributions. There was absolutely no reason for you to go over board. And hey, even if someone was on these boards forever, there are rules to abide by. Break them and you will be warned, no matter who you are. No one is above the law here.

Re: Fifa. There's a fine line between clearly putting your point across once, twice or 3 even, and constantly banging repetitive posts. It will seem like you're on a mission. That will become extremely boring. The same goes to the PES talk in the Fifa thread, and again the same that happens PC vs console. If there were no limits then it all becomes a mess. It was never about people not allowed opinions, it was always about this, and how you come across as well. There's no tyranny, no conspiracy, none of that nonsense.

I've said it a million times before that no on should be disrespectful on here. You don't like it then suit yourself. Don't come asking why later.

Any more talk on this here will be deleted. Stay on topic and keep this thread the way it should be.

Thanks.
 
What is it though that is missing from the games today?

I hate living in yesteryear and trying to recapture the moment I tried WE6 for the first time after years of playing Fifa. It was an awakening to how soccer should be played on a gaming system. The atmosphere, the feeling, and the dynamic gameplay hit you in the face with no hesitation. You knew that you had been missing something special for quite some time and were thankful for the friend or random internet soul who was nice enough to show you the light of PES/WE.

Maybe I am raising my hopes too high these past few years or maybe I am getting over gaming. Regardless, I miss that feeling of "This is what I have been missing!"

Instead, year in, year out, I peruse this forum to see what's up, play the new years demo, only to end up feeling thankful I did not invest money into it. I hate to say, I never decided to invest in the retail version since I have been more or less, waiting to read about dramatic improvements via the updates.

Here is to more wishing and another random comment to add to the mix. Hopefully, one of these days, if not PES/WE, someone can create a footballing experience that can awaken that feeling again.
 
You know how supposedly if you go to edit a player, then go back to the edit menu, you get an option to see the "List Of Altered Players", from where you can locate and fix the crappy generic faces? I'm not getting that option appearing, whatever I do.

Can anyone tell me what stupid shit I must be doing wrong?
 
Through passes are ridiculous anyway, even on 1-bar assistance all you have to do is tap the button and he hammers an automated through pass into space. Also, from deep, you can aimlessly hit a high through ball at maximum power and even though no player run is being made, there's a good chance the defender will miss the ball and your striker almost auto-locks onto the ball instead..

I just can't get over how bad the AI is. Keeper AI and decision making has gotten a whole lot worse from close to medium range, and defensive AI has also got worse. The amount of times I've been trying to block a shot in my own penalty area only to see my fellow defenders turn and move in the wrong direction, or just go wandering off leaving AI attackers unmarked in the box is unbelievable.

And this pressure issue is a definite thing since the patch. I think they've tried increasing some basic parameters with the game in an attempt to make it more competitive. Even I complained pre-patch that sometimes the game just let you walk the ball into the net, but of course, Konami have gone the other way entirely.

There's no way anyone can preach PES as a simulation when the opposition can relentlessly double or triple press you while sprinting at full speed for the whole 90 minutes with absolutely no physical affects on stamina.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
There's no way anyone can preach PES as a simulation when the opposition can relentlessly double or triple press you while sprinting at full speed for the whole 90 minutes with absolutely no physical affects on stamina.
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Well, since there's no realtime two tiered stamina/fatigue-system implemented, that's the result.
 
I'm still surprised PES on PS3/360 don't have a two tier stamina system while it is there on the Wii since 2012; well that's as far as I can remember.
 
Velocity5 said:
What is it though that is missing from the games today?

I hate living in yesteryear and trying to recapture the moment I tried WE6 for the first time after years of playing Fifa. It was an awakening to how soccer should be played on a gaming system. The atmosphere, the feeling, and the dynamic gameplay hit you in the face with no hesitation. You knew that you had been missing something special for quite some time and were thankful for the friend or random internet soul who was nice enough to show you the light of PES/WE.

Maybe I am raising my hopes too high these past few years or maybe I am getting over gaming. Regardless, I miss that feeling of "This is what I have been missing!"

Instead, year in, year out, I peruse this forum to see what's up, play the new years demo, only to end up feeling thankful I did not invest money into it. I hate to say, I never decided to invest in the retail version since I have been more or less, waiting to read about dramatic improvements via the updates.

Here is to more wishing and another random comment to add to the mix. Hopefully, one of these days, if not PES/WE, someone can create a footballing experience that can awaken that feeling again.
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I honestly think it's as simple as personality. Even with the bad Pro Evo games you couldn't falter them for having their own style. I played PES 2009 the other day and no it's not a good game but it feels like it has some confidence in expressing itself that PES 2014 just doesn't have at all. PES 2014 might be a mess but I don't even think if all the kinks were ironed out it'd be anything but good at a surface-level.

It's my belief that PES 2014 doesn't have its own desire to stand out. It's almost been neutered in its compliance with seeming as inoffensive as possible in order to construct an air of realism but it just doesn't have the gameplay to match that style. It's attempts to be realistic are contradictory because it creates a game where the same thing happens over and over again rather than being exciting and unpredictable as real football is. The result is a bland game with bland gameplay. There are some interesting ideas (heart, emotions etc) but it just doesn't have the conviction to make them mean anything at this point. I hope it does in the future because that's what really made PES. You know how people talk about Japanese games as being, well Japanese games? Very distinctive and all that, well I think PES games used to be like that in a lot of ways but now I don't. It seems to be having a personality crisis, attempting to be more Western than Japanese. Perhaps it's because it no longer knows who its audience is.

It's also interesting to note that I think it's been a progressive thing. Perhaps since Seabass left? I mean at least with him you always thought the game had a vision even if you didn't like the game that was produced. Even with Fifa you know what it was wants to be - an end to end thriller - but with PES 2014 I don't think anybody has a clue.

People can agree or disagree but I've been playing PES since the first one on PS2 and the reason I've liked the series so much is because I felt it had a personality that I could appreciate. That things might not always be realistic but that they were interesting regardless. I look at PES 2014 and know that I definitely do not think this any more. I don't think I really have since PES 2011 as a matter of fact and, to tell you the truth, PES 2014 reminds me more of the coldness that Fifa offers than it does the style of PES 5 (my personal favourite throughout the years).

I sound disgruntled and I probably am. I still don't think PES 2014 would be that good even if it was less buggy.
 
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I frankly don't understand that worshiping of PS2 PES games. They were amazing for their time, yes, damn when I discovered PES 5 after always playing FIFA before, I was completely enchanted and never switched back (not counting short trials of better versions of EA game). But now.. I still have PES 6 on my PC, mostly because I love classics option files giving me the possibility to recreate football history. But. But whenever I play it, I can't play it for long - that unrealistic, assisted, lightning speed passing, ridiculous lobs, turbo pressure from AI all over the place just doesn't look like football after coming from PES 2014, which, even with all its shortcomings I believe presents the big leap forward in the series and in football gaming in general.
 
Excellent post, Northzzz.

PES has lost its way, there's no doubt about that in my mind. We often talk about the PES magic and soul, but it's true, those old games had these qualities and it was abundantly clear after only a few plays.

PES 2014 doesn't have that magic, the character, the drama, the sense of unpredictability that made the old games great. It feels like the game has an identity crisis. Konami don't know what they are doing with this series, what direction they wish to take it in, nor who their audience is.

It used to be a quirky, parochial football game, but that was why it was so good.
 
How about searching its soul. We played PES of old to death andfound its randomness. Now weplay for a few days and sell or smash the disc. Granted all the patching changes the significantly we havelittle to no patience with it.

Gotta love the age ofinstant gratification. I had my doubts prepatch but thegame plays much better nowand I am sure moreso in future. Ijust hope we don't have serious teethingissues with PES2015 on the NG and I wonder if konami are going todevelop for PS3 as well seeing as it still has astrong userbase.
 
You didn't have to search for its soul back then, that's my point. PES wasn't about instant gratification either. Never has been. You always knew the game was special from the first kick, even if there was a tough learning curve.

Remember how with the best PES games you would still see something new after months of play? Rarely happens now. I think PES is quite a shallow experience this year in particular.

Anyway, PES has been out for two months now so I like to think that's long enough for most people to offer informed opinions.
 
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