PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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If the game is so much different now after the patch, they should release another demo... I'm reluctant to buy PES this year due to how Konami has treated it's customers and failed to deliver a complete product, but I must admit that I am still tempted due to FIFA not being to my taste at all and I miss having a decent football game to play online.

Then again, I've only really consistently enjoyed one version of PES since PES5, that being PES 2011... Although PES6 gets a lot of love and 2v2 was great, it was a disappointment to me - online pace abuse/cutbacks was the no.1 goalscoring method (especially with lag) and Adriano's left foot was so OP.

2008-2010 were all awful imo, disgracefully bad games although 2010 showed some potential. 2011 was an excellent game imo, it had the classic PES individuality and goalscoring variety but with the freedom of true manual passing and 360 degree movement, the slower game speed and other factors (like catch-up) contributed to making decent football the winning tactic online, probably the only football game I've played where that's been the case online.
I think the lack of pass assistance bars was a good thing, it meant that the passing system that was in the game was nicely balanced and had error implemented in well.

I didn't bother with 2012 after disliking the demo, and 2013 online was tragic (mindless ping pong passing = win).

So in 2014 online, how is the lag? Are chipped through balls overpowered? Can you mindlessly mash A/X and always find a teammate at any angle (ala 2013)? Are strong/fast players overpowered (ala FIFA)?
 
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I'm fine at the game on Top Player and Superstar, but I moved it down to Professional for a Champions League campaign with Real Madrid, and it's absolutely f***ing kicking my ass. What's that all about? How is Pro harder than Top Player and Superstar?

The AI defensive pressure is insane. I played Bale through on goal with a good ten yard headstart, double tapped R1 to burst into space even further, and within two seconds three Schalke players had caught him and pretty much roughed him up. I can't score, and I'm getting hammered in some cases. This never happens on the higher difficulties.

How you dribble, I don't know, pre-patch I complained it was too easy to dribble past opponents, now they just run up like a laser guided missile and rob you of the ball.

Also, keepers are absolutely appalling still, I'm baffled how anyone thinks otherwise. Two shots in my last game, went straight at my keeper, at chest height, and he didn't need to move. Instead, he dropped to his knees and palmed the ball over his own head into the net. Twice in succession. He then proceeded to concede another goal from a slight angle where his body position was totally wrong, and palmed a shot to his right back into the opposite side and it went in through the middle of the goal.

Really baffling.
 
henrys hand said:
Seriously, if you haven't bought it yet, I wouldn't bother and just wait for PES 2015.
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Agree with this, don't bother Rob.

It's an unfinished game with too many issues to ignore. The clunkiness of PES2013 is still there which becomes evident with extended play. It doesn't feel like a new engine underneath the bonnet.

There is undoubted potential for the future but I'm not sure Konami are competent enough to realise it.
 
Yeah it still feels like a shell of a game, albeit a much more fluid one now

The one thing which bothered me most pre-patch is still there. That is namely that your players still struggle to react to the ball when attacking. It's always the attacking players whether it's you or the CPU attacking. They are just so sluggish and disinteresting in battling for the ball. It turns the game into a game dominated by very compact midfield passing and occasional balls into massive acres of space. The physicality is something which need addressing urgently because it makes the players need space in order to be able to do anything.

I have a problem with how the game lacks dynamism. The first 5 minutes of any game are the same as the next 85 (whether you're winning, losing or drawing) and I struggle to feel any individual differences between players except for speed. In the older games I'd be willing to suggest that the players themselves (and their differences) made the game feel alive. Now, you either have a game team or a bad one; rarely is it a case of having a good player and a bad one.

It's not so much a good/bad dichotomy. I think I just find the game really boring. There are a lot of more interesting games in my back-log to play instead even if none of them are related to football.

henrys hand said:
Sure the patch improved some things but there are still alot of things missing:
1. A convincing and challenging CPU AI
2. A referee that actually can see
3. More varied shooting trajectories
4. A two tiered stamina/fatigue-system
5. Much more pronounced individuality
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I think the game would benefit from these. It needs to find a balance between being tactical and being varied.
 
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Northzzz said:
It's not so much a good/bad dichotomy. I think I just find the game really boring. There are a lot of more interesting games in my back-log to play instead even if none of them are related to football.
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Feeling the same way. The PES magic is missing and the game feels a bit soulless and dull.
 
I have to agree the tempo feel same from the kick-off to the end. I think it has been this way since 2011. But previously when CPU are chasing the game at very least they will sent their CB forward and make some adjustment to the shape, but still superfluous since they're playing with same tempo. Don't know why they removed this this year.

The emotion stuff in theory should vary the game, creating a story. But obviously the end result is not pretty. They have to find fine balance. Pushing it too far, people will screaming the word "scripting".
 
Jamezinho said:
Feeling the same way. The PES magic is missing and the game feels a bit soulless and dull.
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Yep, me too, it's odd because I never thought I was influenced by brand loyalty, but man, any other game and I'd just stop playing after a short while and go play something I do enjoy. But this, well, I've played and played desperate to find the old PES magic but it just isn't there.

There's a lot to be said for Northz's assessment that the game lacks dynamism. I think that's it. The game does need space for anything to happen, so it's a tight midfield scrap which opens with a ball into acres of space. He's hit the nail on the head right there.

Keepers are also too big a problem to ignore. I won a game 2-0 tonight. Both goals were from efforts straight at the keeper, and both times, the keeper fell to his knees and did that outstretched, sprawled arm animation and the ball went in off his torso. Not good enough.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
There's a lot to be said for Northz's assessment that the game lacks dynamism. I think that's it.
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Yes, excellent post.

Dare I say it, but was scripting the engine behind the PES magic? I think it played a huge part in creating those memorable matches and moments.

There was an outcry from the community to reduce scripting. Perhaps what we have now is the result of that.
 
PLEASE read below post with comprehension. I won't discuss with someone who only throws insults or spineless efforts without supporting their words. I can support mine with legitimate videos if needed. Thank you for understanding.

Going after Jamezinho recommendation, to post my post in console section, I will gladly do so. Bare in mind, I know it belongs to PC section, but I guess, this forum is read much more than PC one and the game is same on ALL platforms (PS3/X360/PC). So want to hear REALISTIC opinion on what I wrote below. No placebo or people protecting company like mad and saying we may see improvements next year. Not now at least.

Ok, I have finally downloaded 1.04. patch and DLC 2.0 for PC. I only played PES 2014 on PS3 before, but that one broke on me recently.

Took ~40min in total. Not too bad.

However, I didn't trust much of opinions from users, so decided to see the changes for my very own self ;).

Played 10 games, Professional difficulty, 1 bar or 3 bars (for fun) support, basic shooting and through balls, all other stuff except Auto-Feints off.

Should I really put it in Pro/Cons style or go more elaborate here, let's see.

I will say straight off the bat, this is not what I expected (sadly, not in positive tone).

I won't go about things which are missing, because those couldn't be patched in anyway (rain, snow, overcast, afternoon matches). I will try and concentrate on things which could have been done, maybe later in summary I will post Pro/Con.

All of this will be about ON PITCH and not OFF (so no talking about Master League and such).


First thing is presentation and I thought the game would look super spectacular on PC, taking full engine capability. How shocked was I seeing it's not. Sure some details are better, textures are of higher quality (mostly visible on kits), but Level of Detail on some objects is just bad. So much pixelation it actually hurts your eyes.

Second thing, game as I heard, pre-patch was stuttering and having slowdowns on pre-match/replays. Sadly, it still happens my end on new patch. No luck here.

Third thing is our main dish: GAMEPLAY. I may sound rude, but it feels unnatural, plastic and I will put it bluntly: semi-arcade mish mash. Being die hard PES fan since beginning of the series, this is what I didn't expect in the slightest. Don't know what they wanted to achieve here, because it can have simulation moments only for something out of Arcade to break the illusion completely to pieces.

Let me elaborate on this some more. There is hardly any difference between players. Nada. People saying there is player individuality here, either only watch football on TV, never played football even on amateur level or never watched/played football at all. Sorry, but there is no difference between C. Ronaldo and Bale in terms of speed, acceleration, movement possible, passing. The same goes for Isco - Kaka comparison, both can be made to play SAME style. Xavi - Pirlo? Yep, no difference in passing at all. Even animation wise, there should be some passes ONLY possible for Pirlo. This is when human controls them players.

For AI player individuality is even worse. It doesn't matter what player rating AI is controlling, they will use ALL in same manner. I have yet to see C. Ronaldo doing chop in AI hands or Xabi trying long range shot...

Being amateur myself, I know that I have MY OWN style on pitch. I can SEE things others don't. I don't have laser eyesight to see players 80 yards away to play them perfect through ball (and that is sadly very possible on PES, over top through ball from defense to attack).

This is another thing I heard complains before, shooting.

Improved, but it STILL, for me, lacks power from long range and variety. Might add that R2 shooting is pretty much useless as even with bar fully powered, R2 slashes the power by 3/4. The ball lacks any ZIP like people like to call it.

Glad to see that rotation and spin is back on ball and that now it is possible to not shoot on target 99% of time. Shooting with weaker foot, goes wide now.

As we are with shooting, we cannot say anything about Goalkeepers.

Sorry, but I don't see any noticeable improvements. The can position themselves a little bit better yes, but they still do same mistakes I do remember them doing on PS3 pre-patch. That includes, punching ball into own net, parrying the ball straight under opponent feet, weak reaction or no reaction to chipped ball (which results in a lot of goals). Hard to beat from long range (that means from 30 yards and more). Very problematic if I dare to say so as we were promised IMPROVEMENTS here!

Now let's get back to AI in both offense and defense. Here is one of bigger and better things KONAMI did. Before, under pressure, AI would just hoof the ball forward and pray that winger/forward gets lucky bounce and gets through on goal for 1-on-1 situation.

Now they retain possession better, mostly know what to do with ball, they play with more variety, but in final third, they still are too reliant on low cross/pass to near post and tap in. Sadly, it will take a lot of work to get team tactics right. In defense they are hard to break. Still, on user side of things, central defenders STILL move out of position to mark the striker. NOT GOOD (made sure they are not on man marking too)!

Offensive AI for user still could do with little more work, as there is not much movement from players. You need to indicate runs with LB often, would love to see them run when there is occasion by themselves. Thank you. Och yes, user strikers still love to be 30 meters on offside at times...

Player faces in DLC are subpar quality. If that took someone two months, well, we are doomed. They look even worse than PES 2013 faces.

Last thing is also regarding presentation, but I find it very, very dull. No replays after half-time showing saves or goals or misses? Yes, when in game we are plagued with pointless replays all the time... Killing the game play fluidity. The replays are still capped at atrocious speed of 30 fps. They are in slow-motion... Again killing immersion of real speed of shot.

Can we also please in next PES have totally new commentary teams? Can't stand that boring Scottish/English duo anymore! My ears are BLEEDING hearing them. They make NO ATMOSPHERE. Turning them off doesn't help, as stadium chants/effects are just as bad.

Please in next PES also add more customization to cameras. Zoom out more, more height for starters would be good.

So to summarize:

Pros:

- there is still momentum/interia in place
- ball weight and physics are quite good
- better AI
- game feels more responsive
- game pace is spot on
- spin and missed shots added

Cons:

- GOALKEEPERS are still a MESS
- still lack of fouls
- presentation could do with bit more work
- user AI could be much better
- in final third AI is still reliant on same old trick

Less annoying stuff to be done:

- new commentary next year?
- new cameras?
- better faces and complete roster next year? ;)



For now that's it. Maybe will add more stuff later on or rephrase some stuff after playing some more. For now I am baffled as to where people see those huge improvements. Yes, they are there and yes, game is very playable now, but it is missing something like "soul" for me. For me fun factor is not yet there.

If someone views this as offensive post or over the top, be mindful that it's my opinion you don't have to agree with. Just move on. Not all people will enjoy the game and people need to realize that too. ;)

In all honesty, after what losslesscompression said in PC section, I realized that you cannot change much in 19MB file. Probably only some constants changed in exe that's all. I wonder why KONAMI and PES didn't go different route and unlocked json to be read via exe file. Would make editing much more simple. Decisions, decisions at higher levels are bizarre at times, but not I have never seen something like that. It's like KONAMI doesn't count PES as the game giving the company most profit. But we know this cannot be the case, I mean, come on?!
 
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Jamezinho said:
Yes, excellent post.

Dare I say it, but was scripting the engine behind the PES magic? I think it played a huge part in creating those memorable matches and moments.

There was an outcry from the community to reduce scripting. Perhaps what we have now is the result of that.
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YES! it is. I hated the scripting in ps2 days (I mostly lost, never knew how to use the tactics and players ability to my advantage.)

those who want total controll have FIFA. KONAMI has become borderline. I also believe that fans asked for things they shouldn't have asked for in the first place.
 
Previous PES games were clunky but they still had that sense of unpredictability and were able to recreate those dramatic moments you see in real games. I think the scripting went a bit too far in later games but playing a ML was still enthralling once you got into it. My ML campaigns in PES2011 and 2012 were memorable, I still remember specific matches from them even now.

In truth I think PES was awful in PES2008 and 2009, 2010 was merely okay, but the series took a dramatic upturn from 2011 onwards. This is just flat and dull though. I don't understand some of the design decisions they take. Like why remove R2 controlled passing, and why retain R2 shooting when it's completely ineffective. I can't remember ever scoring an R2 shot in this from any further out than a few yards from the keeper.

I believe scripting had a major impact in the way the game played out, for positive and for negative, but it's all wrong in this. There is barely any, which is what people wanted, but then when it does randomly kick in, it's really noticeable, to the point where you think the game is bugged. Anyone who's experienced a tough match followed by the COM just letting you score over and over in a short space of time will know what I mean.
 
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Jamezinho said:
Plenty of PES magic in PES2010, and to a lesser extent PES2011 before Konami fucked about with the retail version.

So stick your fail emoticon up your arse. :))
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Magic in Pes 2010? Where? Magic in Pes 2011? Where? What are You talking about? Pes 2010 had nice graphics in particular lighting. Gameplay was clunky as hell. I didn't see any magic in Pes 2010 like in old Pes from PS2 days. Massive disagree with You about magic in Pes 2010/11. Magic i have seen in Pes 4-6 but not in Pes 2010 :BYE:
 
I went into Edit and changed the gameplan for Aston Villa and then played Aston Villa against itself in Exhibition Mode.

These are my edits:

Player support 4
Support Range 14
Position Switch 2
Front Line Pressure 4
Defensive Line 4
Compactness 16
Shift to Attack 4
Off/Def Level 4

I played a 15 minute game on Professional.

It was a bit of a weird game, but also instructive. Except for sudden possession-switches in midfield, both defensive lines played very deep and conservative. Far fewer absurd runs. Good defensive covering. But most importantly, very few through-balls. Under normal conditions, because of the suicidally-high defensive lines, the cpu has no choice but to attack by through-ball. When a cpu forward receives the ball and turns all they see are acres of space behind the defense; they do a dribble-delay and wait for a cpu run behind the line: through ball. But with the edits, the cpu often receives the ball and turns and sees an already-retreated defense and then plays into the space in front of the line. It's not perfect, no chance of that.

I guess what I am suggesting is that if we could find a way to have defensive lines retreat in advance, the cpu would find more space in front and therefore play it around with some patience. In the standard tactics, the defensive lines are constantly running towards their own goal, everything is a last-man crisis. Imagine if Vidic had as his starting position the center-circle and then spent the game running towards his own goal--he'd never last past the hour. Instead, in real-life, Vidic spends the whole game with his back to goal, daring the forwards to enter his space.

Anyway, consider trying the edits. Good day.

p.s. I guess I should say that I am on ps3, with an option file, latest patch etc.
 
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LonsFenomenoo said:
Faces are magic for You?
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post-12472-Magic-gifs-y3nT.gif
 
Seems like this is the only place which most discussion revolving around offline mode. To be honest i want the old arcade, challenge and mini-game modes back. Gladly swap it with MLO.
 
Loving this at the moment, Premier League, Top Player.

I would not have believed in advance the life this patch has breathed into this game
 
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Thanks for the advice HH and Jamez, I suspected it may well be a lost cause for this year.

losslesscompression said:
Seems like this is the only place which most discussion revolving around offline mode. To be honest i want the old arcade, challenge and mini-game modes back. Gladly swap it with MLO.
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Yeah, I'm surprised more people here don't seem to play/discuss the online parts of the game. I find the challenge of playing another person far more rewarding than playing against the AI, especially with how primitive/repetive they are in every football game I've played, as well as pretty much every other sports/racing game.

About the challenge training/mini games, FIFA 14 actually has quite a lot of them, encompassing all areas of the gameplay and the scores are saved and submitted to leaderboards which give you a ranking amongst the people on your friends list. Pretty cool thing to have, and I don't understand why PES doesn't have them after "Challenge Training" was a staple on the PS2.
 
Don't know what patch you guys are playing but I'm seeing a big improvement and I've had some amazing games against CPU so far. And I usually avoid CPU due to scripting. Scored some nice goals, and CPU has much more variety in attack.

15 mins, Professional, Full manual.

Yes, there are still gripes, but I'm not going to flagellate.
 
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Rob, good to see your back.
I never play online, because imo it brings out the worst in people...
I know there is jimmy's league, i'm petty sure that is a very fair league as jimmy is a very classy person, but i'm sure those guys are way too good for me (i'm a lousy gamer to be honest).

So i only play against the CPU and just like you the only current gen PES i really liked is PES2011. Well, PES2014 (despite the obvious flaws) is imo much, much better...

People who are saying that the CPU isn't attempting long range shots must play another game, the CPU tried several against me (although until now never a goal, but i wonder how many % of these longe range shots are goals IRL, just take a look at Andros Townsend...as a Spurs fan he really irritates me with all his useless long range attempts).
 
gerd said:
People who are saying that the CPU isn't attempting long range shots must play another game, the CPU tried several against me (although until now never a goal, but i wonder how many % of these longe range shots are goals IRL, just take a look at Andros Townsend...as a Spurs fan he really irritates me with all his useless long range attempts).
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I don't see any long rage attempts and i miss them much. Could you please tell me your settings. It must depend on the settings / difficulty that is the only logical explanation.
 
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