PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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So today I sat down with PES 2014 to spend some time after the patch trying to get a decent game against the COM. Im not going to go on about the patch, all Im going to say is that it has made the game infinitely better for me regarding many issues I was having.
Anyway, I stared at the gameplan screen for ages trying to figure out what I wanted my opposition to play like I.E style, tactics etc...
I decided I would play as Arsenal because they are a pretty strong team and chose Newcastle as my opponents. I began to edit Newcastles game plan to stop the fast break mentality in a lot of teams in the game. First I started by changing all 3 of their pre set tactics to custom. I then lowered Shifting to attack setting to between 1-5 on all 3 tactics. Next was Attack/Defense level which I lowered to between 1-5 for all 3 tactics. Front line pressure was also lowered to between 1-5 also on all 3 tactics.
I figured I would start there and see what happened and how the CPU played and to be honest I wasnt expecting much. Wow, was I wrong? i just played my most enjoyable game of PES 2014 to date. The match had Premier League written all over it - tight in the midfield with Newcastle getting bodies behind the ball, Arsenal dominating possession for the most part but being unable to break them down, save for a couple of long range efforts that went wide of the goal. Newcastle did manage to break out now and again with Ameobi one on one with the Arsenal keeper but Sceszny blocked the shot at close range. The first half ended 0-0.
second half saw more of the same with Newcastle starting to get more adventurous, which stretched the game a little bit more and more space became available for Sagna and Gibbs on the flanks. In the 85th minute Sagna swings over a curling cross to the far post which left Krul stranded - Cazorla met it with his head only to head inches over the bar.
My most enjoyable game ever - and not a single goal was scored.
Professional setting
Manual shooting
manual passing

Ozil was a master in the midfield too, showing his individuality and giving Santon and Anita the run around. With some tinkering this game is immense, granted the tactics by Konami are awful but they can be edited if you have the time and the patience - if you don't, and want instant gratification, then I dont thing this game is for you
 
Combination play adds even more diversity to it but... yeah and why not the game makers setting up the tactics? do i have to sit donw on my arse and set it manually for the houndreds of clubs ingame myself? me? the customer? really?
 
vxcmplx said:
I think what's really spammable was the defending system in the past. Holding both square and X results in automatic double pressure. Players will automatically lock-on and hunt down the ball like missiles.

I don't know if ref's linient. I've drawn a lot of cards from badly timed tackles..

If anything, I think the ref is stricter than previous PES versions. It used to be that you can play against someone who spam sliding tackles blindly all game and they'll hardly receive the fouls they deserve. Not the case anymore.
Click to expand...


played few games today on xbox360

online / mlo / 1 bar / all basic settings

I have to disagree, in pes2013 u really needed to time ur tackle, I agree after a while practicing and if you get that feeling is was maybe a bit too easy

now if you hold the run button with a(x)in pes2014, he does auto correct his tackle and so theres no real timing needed

and u notice this being abused online already, people just pressuring constant makin the game a crazy rugby match a times, with crazy body checks, but the ref doesnt blow the whistle, insteed he blows 8 of the 10 times when u use the right stick to hold the other player of the ball

so in that aspect the ref is far to linient, but when u in penalty box he can blow at the lighest touch even when the player has shot already and in some cases has already scored (happend a few times and yes the goal didnt count he had to take the pen)

but sadly that not the only problem with this years pes, but I like the whole feeling of momentum and the footplanting wich gives the game a real releastic feeling


I play on basic shooting but it seems like all the shot I take have the same angle, is always just wide or it will hit the post feels so weird and cheap, no feeling like older pes


I still enjoy some matches but its the overal feeling that I am missing
which makes me sad (lol)
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Combination play adds even more diversity to it but... yeah and why not the game makers setting up the tactics? do i have to sit donw on my arse and set it manually for the houndreds of clubs ingame myself? me? the customer? really?
Click to expand...

In a perfect world no, we shouldnt have to, but on the flip side you risk getting what we actually got. Wrong and incorrect tactics forged by a select group of peoples opinions (Konami) Be careful what you wish for :CONFUSE:
Personally I think the ability to edit tactics is a godsend because if we didnt have it the game would be awful. The edit tactics is there for a reason, not just to edit your own tactics but to completely personalise your gaming experience. Im not having a go, just playing devils advocate.

I look at buying PES as an investment, after all its my footy game fix for a whole year. So if there are no OPTIONS to tailor it to my needs it would be so frustrating - much like buying a new computer that you cannot personalise to your own requirements and needs. There are not many that are perfect "out of the box"
 
i wonder if the data pack has detrimental effects on gameplay cause iv noticed whenever i add a modified OF the game for some reason doesnt play right but when i take it out, the game is ok, im gonna get rid of all my files and just play with the updated patch and see how it goes.
 
nurological said:
dont you advertise a league that promotes fair play???

I see alot of cheap goals in that video
Click to expand...

That was against the CPU on Top Player, don't talk to me about cheap. Especially when the game practically dictates the way you have to play.

Show me what you got ? Post them, I wanna see expensive goals on PES 14.

And ask anyone on PEEL, they will tell you my play is the exact opposite of cheap. Not that I really care for your opinion, but for the record my football is a cross between Dynamo, Copperfield and Angel....
 
dach said:
played few games today on xbox360

online / mlo / 1 bar / all basic settings

I have to disagree, in pes2013 u really needed to time ur tackle, I agree after a while practicing and if you get that feeling is was maybe a bit too easy

now if you hold the run button with a(x)in pes2014, he does auto correct his tackle and so theres no real timing needed

and u notice this being abused online already, people just pressuring constant makin the game a crazy rugby match a times, with crazy body checks, but the ref doesnt blow the whistle, insteed he blows 8 of the 10 times when u use the right stick to hold the other player of the ball

so in that aspect the ref is far to linient, but when u in penalty box he can blow at the lighest touch even when the player has shot already and in some cases has already scored (happend a few times and yes the goal didnt count he had to take the pen)

but sadly that not the only problem with this years pes, but I like the whole feeling of momentum and the footplanting wich gives the game a real releastic feeling


I play on basic shooting but it seems like all the shot I take have the same angle, is always just wide or it will hit the post feels so weird and cheap, no feeling like older pes


I still enjoy some matches but its the overal feeling that I am missing
which makes me sad (lol)
Click to expand...

Which type of tackling are we talking about here? R1+X? In PES2014, R1+X only allows you to pressure a ball carrier in his "assumed trajectory" (*see the 2nd spoiler below for elaboration). In fact, R1+X isn't even a tackle, you need to double tap X for a tackle. R1+X is the pressure button (X) in older PES versions. It's the bum rush move that's always been there. But it's different in the 2 ways now in PES2014:
- that you can actually wrong-foot defenders
- body check fouls don't happen as often now, as compared to last year's PES2013

I feel that we need to isolate and itemize these things in order to discuss them.

Do you have lag in your online games? Because this changes everything. It's difficult to wrong-foot defenders when you are experiencing online lag. The #1 most important thing for this game to function vs human players, is that you can only play properly when there's no online lag.

It's true that most body checks do not get foul calls in PES2014. But it's also true that this game requires you to be more reactive than previous PES versions. You have to think of which dribbling component you want to use: proactive or reactive. When there's no lag, you can actually find time and space to make decisions that will allow you to deal with pressuring defenders.
- For proactive dribbling (aka you trying to take on a defender proactively), if you run into someone else's body, I think it's fine that fouls don't get given. This partly solves the problem of those junkie one-man-whoring dribblers of older PES versions.
- For reactive dribbling (kinda like stationary dribbling, you are more or less stationary, reading the incoming challenge and trying to beat the challenge), it's pretty easy to spin someone off your orbit, if he's holding R1+X (if you don't have online lag).

I'm more of a reactive player. Depending on your strength/style, the experience may be different.

I played online using manual shooting and passing. When the game doesn't lag, I don't have trouble playing against people who spam R1+X. Body checks don't get called often, but I can obviously see them coming and avoid them when there's no online lag. I'm also happy about the fouls called post-patch against mistimed tackles (not the R1+X kind, but the double tap X and the single tap circle variety). I've drawn red cards in online games from my opponents.

I wrote about this in a different forum (and also partly here on evoweb). There's enough people complaining about this that I think I need to post this here. It's a bit long so I'll put it in spoiler quotes:


Regarding the current state of R2 dribbling:
I thought I preferred PES13's dribbling system initially, but now I have changed my mind. There's actually quite a lot to talk about on this subject, because there are lot of details in the dribbling and defending system that has been changed this year.

Dribbling is too "one dimensional" in PES13. Especially the use of R2 for close control, and R1 for speed.

In PES13, both close control and dribbles with speed, only required you to HOLD their respective buttons, and didn't require you to take specific touches.

- For close control in PES13, you only need to hold one button to activate close control, step on the ball and roll animation, which is very difficult for the opposition defenders to dispossess you. This creates a massive problem online, because some players will try to kill the clock by passing between their defenders (with magnetic assisted passing, of course). And there's nothing you can do about it but to blindly spam double pressure (will talk about this later), until a pass goes wrong for them.

- For dribbling with speed in PES13, you are only required again to hold the R1 button. You can do moderate turns even when holding R1. You only need to let go of R1 until you need to make a cutting turn. Let go of R1, now HOLD R2 to make that turn.

To me, these touches of HOLDING a button is not realistic touches. I think PES14 does this more realistically.

- For close control in PES14, you let go of EVERY BUTTON. Just the L-stick. R2 is not a close control button anymore, it still activates a step-on-and-roll animation, but it's no longer perfectly in control. It's actually very vulnerable to use the R2 button now in the wrong situations. It took me a while to realize and it was difficult for me to change my habits, but I realized that if you let go of every button, you're protecting the ball better than with R2 in tight spaces. It's now a rule of thumb in PES14, to press as little buttons as possible, and only the essential ones (will go into this in detail below).

- For dribbling with speed in PES14, holding R1 will get you locked into a running animation that is difficult to change directions. Now, what you can do instead is a lovely step towards realism for me. Instead of holding the button, now you are required to tap R1 once before your feet touches the ball while dribbling. This enable you to change running trajectories everytime you touch the ball. You now need to be aware of each specific touch you put on the ball while dribbling. Isn't this a much more realistic speed dribbling system, than simply holding one button and your work is done?

-----------

Aside from the most common complaint of thru balls, one of the biggest flaws in PES13 to me, was the effectiveness of ping pong passing and close ball control. Now, ping pong passing is still there. But close ball control system has changed.

In PES14, it can be vulnerable now if you are not aware of the touches you give the ball. L-stick to walk around, R-stick to hold out a hand and shield the ball against the trajectory of opposition defenders, both sticks together to make tight turns or to do tricks, R2 to drag the ball a couple of steps and to re-orient your player to facing the goal, tap R1 once to dribble, tap R2 to put a heavy touch on the ball for speed burst. You have to be very aware of each touch you play.

Holding certain buttons will now actually get you into a lot of vulnerable situations. It's best to let go of any buttons (sometimes that includes the L-stick. ANY BUTTONS) when the touch is finished.
Click to expand...

Regarding the current state of R1+X defending (also here: http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=2822208#post2822208)
Metronom said:
View Post
Seriously, how bad is the the defensive AI at your part? I´m a pretty decent PES-player, but I just have to get some feedback from someone. It´s really getting to me. The unawareness and responsiveness my players show is dreadfull. I have loads of patience and I´m pretty sure my timing on the controls are of occasionally off, but most times the oppostion players just run through my defence like it´s nobodys business. Lobbing my goalkeeper and scoring absolutely laughable goals. I´m patient, but this is just really getting to me. My defense-settings don´t seem to be working as the gap between my cb´s are at times really questinable. Don´t get me wrong, I don´t hate the game. I´m waiting PATIENTLY on a patch which MIGHT fix some of the online-issues but please. I feel soooo alone at times. I just need to confirm that it´s not just my skills that are in doubt after the "revolutionizing" of PES. Writing this in a haze of frustration.
Click to expand...

I used to find it troubling that, once accelerated, full speed runs starting from midfield are almost impossible to stop online (add the fact that there is no catchup bug to help in this situation, because it's not a "catchup" scenario). Defenders just freeze one after another, letting opposition dribble straight through.

I recently completely changed the buttons I instinctively use to defend, and have a lot more success stopping this from happening.

I shared my experience on a different forum, so I'll just paste it here:
Holding certain buttons will now actually get you into a lot of vulnerable situations. It's best to let go of any buttons (sometimes that includes the L-stick. ANY BUTTONS) when the touch is finished.

The same goes for defending in PES14.

Defending pressure is less effective than PES13. In PES13, the pressure button (X) or COM pressure button (square) enables your defenders to hunt down the ball as if they're homing missles. To me that is EXTREMELY UNREALISTIC. They do not even get wrong footed for a moment. They are always and completely aware of where the ball is. They do not need more than a split second to recuperate their momentum if they marched on and miss the ball. Holding both pressure buttons is way too effective. You can do all this by just holding certain buttons? That's a game breaker for me. A control system that allows this is too flat. It's too automatic, with very little skill, timing, and judgement involved.

In PES14, holding R1+X is only effective if your opponent is running, and the trajectory of his run is clearly defined. Holding R1+X against an opponent who is not running, will make you feel like your defender is lost and unaware. It makes you feel like your defender froze. That is because, your opponent's trajectory is unclear. He is just strolling around with the ball, turning, switching feet, or better yet, luring you in and do a trick on you.

The best way to defend against dribblers who know how to vary their speed and touches, is to let go of all buttons, use R1 and X only if you're far away from the dribbler, then R1 and X buttons independently to correct your position, and when closing in, hold X to activate your defender's "containing" animation, and once the dribbler's trajectory becomes clear, choose between using R1+X or double tap X, depending on the situation.
Click to expand...
The most important thing I noticed playing PES14, is that it's extremely damaging to your team shape and creates unrecoverable vulnerabilities to press too many buttons that you don't intend to, or dragging defenders out of position. They will snowball the gap and 1-by-1 cover for each other.

One example is if a winger beats your LB on the wings near the sideline (say 40 yards from the corner), the best thing to do is just let the winger have his space, and move a CB to wait around the edge of the box in case he wants to take you on 1-on-1. Leave CB there and start defending with the 2nd CB for the cross. Do not change shape any further than that. NEVER bring anyone full speed out all the way to meet the winger. Adjust slowly. Do not move out too quickly unless support arrives in the box (this will usually be your DM. Check radar if you have luxury of time).

R1+X or square generally should not be used when:
- the opposition dribbler is not running
- you're getting too close to a running ball carrier, and you feel like he's going to vary his pace/cut a turn etc.

Last man defending/containing by holding X works wonders.

I think generally it's best to play using as little button commands as possible (sometimes none at all. Goes for both dribbling and defending). While defending, give running dribblers 3-4 steps of space. This makes them far less effective, and your AI teammates position themselves much better.

I still sometimes have trouble with it online when there's lag in the connection, but for the most part, I've seen improvements.
Click to expand...

Regarding the R-stick usage:
When you are the ball holder, there's basically 2 things you can do with the stick.
1) non-tricks: maintain body balance, shielding the ball, making turns
2) tricks: the more fancy stuff. drag backs, flip flap, step overs, double touch, roulettes etc.

I'm a type of player who use a lot of (1), with a bit of (2). I'm not very good at (2). I just stick with what I know, and can pull off consistently. The tricks in category (2) is pretty difficult to pull off consistently. Sometimes you get an animation you didn't expect, because your inputs sometimes are not exact (you might have flicked your sticks in the wrong direction e.g.)

Personally, I think it's easier to start by understanding the types of battles in this game. I feel like there are 2 types of battles between dribblers and defenders
A) speed/running battles
B) stationary, close control, tight space battles

They require you to make different decisions with your controls. Some of the things you can do effectively in (A) situation, may not be suitable for situation (B).

--------

In (A), the dribbles you make take large steps, bigger body swings, throwing around your momentum. You can start to get an idea of (1) here. So let's say in this example, you are running with the ball towards 12 o'clock orientation (we'll call whichever way you're facing, 12), and getting chased down by a defender from 7 o'clock. There are 2 simple type (1) choices you can make here.

- Keep running. Keep running with your L-stick facing more or less towards 12 o'clock (or 1, or 2), pull your R-stick towards 7. What the L-stick does here, is basically you put your body between the ball and the defender, so he can't reach it (you running towards somewhere between 12-2, while he's coming in from 7. Makes sense right?). What the R-stick does, is to make your player hold out his arm/hand towards him to keep distance, pushing against him, as he's coming for you with R1+X pressure, trying to tug on your shirt. If you understand what I'm saying here, you'll probably understand that pointing your L-stick at 1 will be the most effective (polar opposite of the defender's incoming challenge).

- If instead of keep running, you prefer to spin your defender off your trajectory (like Rosicky's touch @ 7:10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvyBahN4IPU). So, in this video, the defender is again coming in at 7 o'clock. You were running towards 12. Timing is important in this one. The moment/location you choose to turn, is the moment RIGHT BEFORE the defender makes contact with you (to tug your shirt, of course). You take your last step running towards 12. Then you let go of the L-stick completely. Yeah, you're not gonna run your next step anymore. But you try to make it look like you are going to. You do this by pointing your R-stick towards 12. This makes you look like you're leaning towards 12, as if you're going to continue running in that direction. Then, anytime before your next touch on the ball, pull your L-stick towards 4 or 5. What this means is your body is leaning to 12, but the actual touch you take brings the ball to 4 or 5. It will look something similar to what Rosicky did in that vid. It will leave your defender marching off in the wrong trajectory (12 or 1 o'clock). Oh, and don't forget to let go of the R1 speed button before you turn (You don't want to cut your turn at full speed and then fall on your ass, right?)

-------

-----I'm not sure what examples to give for (B). I'll come back in fill this in later------
Click to expand...


To me, the dribbling and defending mechanisms are part of the same discussion really. Once you make sense of the capabilities/limits of the defense mechanisms, then you also know how much time/space you really have when someone's defending you.

I respect that you feel differently, I'll try to spend some time to feel out other nuances when I play more games online (post-patch). But so far my experience is that if the game does not lag online, there is SO MUCH you can do against blind pressuring defenders.
 
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I have noticed the game does play alot better and its not placebo, iv delete the modified edit data and the recent data pack 2 which is the back up edit data, before you try that just back up your edit data on a USB stick, iv noticed a massive difference in all areas of the game for the better, if anyone else in here decides to try it can you please let know your experience thanks.
Reason i decided to try this is cause in the past when i included the wenb or the gtm option file it definately had detrimental effects on the game play, and i was experiencing the same bad effects (bad AI, players stuttering while with ball) after downloading the massive datapack 2.
 
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Not using advanced thru ball you are missing out on so much of the game - it should be called advanced thru ball/ pass/ lay off
I love laying the ball off into space on the edge of the box with my CF for a midfielder to run onto and smash one first time
I urge everyone to try to use advanced thru ball setting - it transforms gameplay all over the pitch by passing into space

Also, regarding my other post about editing opposition tactics I have noticed this allows my team more time on the ball which has opened up a whole new world - making manual off the ball runs. I can now ask CF to drop short for a pass or send him on bending runs to beat the offside trap - slowly and systematically learning the intricacies of this game is where you will find your true enjoyment of it.
 
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This place seems to be one big argument these days.

Not sure what happened to intellectual discussions about PES. It’s seems we have all turned into manic depressives or something blaming Konami for everything that is wrong.

The biggest issue here is that so many are all still so frustrated from PES 2008. We are all seemingly desperate for Konami to 'magically' shell out a PES 5 or as others love PES 6. These two games came after two editions of stability and tweaking. PES since 2011 has been constantly apart from 2012-2013 making drastic changes which took two, three patches to stabilize. We simply have to be patient; this perfection won’t come unless we have at least 2 editions of stability. I see no point whatsoever getting all pissed off about how many issues there are since I expected this to happen! When I play the game again I’ll be happy to speak about what is wrong but i don’t see how getting so angry and depressed helps, anyone! It’s not ping pong, it’s a modern video game, everything is new and it’s going to take time for them to understand all the features fully.

I find it bizarre people are doubting Konami’s future on the PS4. Konami to go forward essentially have to go backwards in getting PES on the PS4 to play like PES 2013 with all the new technology implemented. That is exactly what their vision is and what they are aiming for, but it’s not as easy as we think gameplaywise.

We need to let this go as a community, stop all this Jeremy Kyle show like point scoring petty arguments on who is cheap or who doesn't agree with the majority opinion. Shit, we should of let all the frustration go years and years ago.

Our expectations are too high, we get dragged far too much into hype, expecting perfection, I said when the first trailer hit, this edition will have issues to contend with, you create a whole new engine from scratch, there was no chance the game would be faultless when you enter into the unknown like this.

We believe too much 'The customer is always right'. We lose sight of our own perception and awareness while dealing with something we are supposed to actually 'enjoy' not fight and throw our egos about to get in with the majority opinion or arrive with tons of preconceptions and instead of discovering the game, instead we expect it to play to what essentially our ego can handle. Gaming has been dubbed down so much over the years, becoming easier and easier, I think we need to take a step back, remember the days when just finishing an adventure game would be an achievement in the early 90's. The key was learning how to beat a game and embracing the game for what it did, not looking for what isn't even there in the game in the first place.

I think it's too easy just to look at Konami's failings and blame all this negative energy on them. I think across the board in the PES world, with Konami's PR needs a serious revamp, Konami, need to be a little more aggressive with their securing of licences and more diligent with it's updates and bug fixes. We as a community need to let the past go. The PS2 era was so different to now it's night and day compared to today’s industry. Why where we expecting a perfect football game in a year with brand new engine.

This game has a fair few issues, they seem to be happening more on Superstar than on other levels, I haven't seen many good we rounded posts here, so much anger over one or two things then the negativity sets in. I think Konami have messed up the most this year with their updates and Superstar level being a mess, I give them credit though for trying hard and getting all that work done to get a game running on their new engine out.

As you have easily worked out I'm not saying this game is perfect, I'm not even deflecting criticism which is due, the point here is how we deliver criticism is to be honest a joke here. There is a big air of 'desperation' from us all, so 'frustrated' all the time. We need to all relax more; we really do, less Prima Donna like posts in which you’re desperate for everyone to agree with your disgruntlement or abusing others who can't play.

The best example of what is wrong here is someone will find something wrong, state it, which s perfectly fine but will do absolutely zero investigation into why this thing is wrong and take perspective to what is needed to be calculated, how hard it is to balance it out, he will just shout and whine like a child and the negative energy sets in.

The way we carry on, we aren't helping ourselves or Konami. I'm a big believer in self responsibility to move forward, if you keep pointing fingers at others all the time you lose awareness of what your doing wrong yourself.

Being away from home and away from the internet mostly for so long has made me thing about why this place is so highly strung up. Whatever happened to us enjoying ourselves, what are we all emo's or something?
 
expat said:
Not using advanced thru ball you are missing out on so much of the game - it should be called advanced thru ball/ pass/ lay off
I love laying the ball off into space on the edge of the box with my CF for a midfielder to run onto and smash one first time
I urge everyone to try to use advanced thru ball setting - it transforms gameplay all over the pitch by passing into space
Click to expand...

I don't really use the thru ball button anymore. There was a bug in the advance through ball button on PS3, so I've altogether stopped using this button. Manual pass or L2 manual pass seems to do the job well enough. Can you actually put spin/swerve on advance through ball?

I still have some trouble when trying to use advance through balls under pressure. It seems like you will get delays in all your motion inputs when someone is pressuring you (physically in contact with you. Not complaining. I think it's realistic that a player have trouble moving fluidly when someone's shoulder barging them or tugging their shirt), the "target" thing would go way beyond where you wish it to go. I seem to be better at using L2 manual to play passes into space, and L2+circle for long balls over the top (this seems to have some nice backspin to it when it hits the ground too).
 
klashman69 said:
This place seems to be one big argument these days.

Not sure what happened to intellectual discussions about PES. It’s seems we have all turned into manic depressives or something blaming Konami for everything that is wrong.

The biggest issue here is that so many are all still so frustrated from PES 2008. We are all seemingly desperate for Konami to 'magically' shell out a PES 5 or as others love PES 6. These two games came after two editions of stability and tweaking. PES since 2011 has been constantly apart from 2012-2013 making drastic changes which took two, three patches to stabilize. We simply have to be patient; this perfection won’t come unless we have at least 2 editions of stability. I see no point whatsoever getting all pissed off about how many issues there are since I expected this to happen! When I play the game again I’ll be happy to speak about what is wrong but i don’t see how getting so angry and depressed helps, anyone! It’s not ping pong, it’s a modern video game, everything is new and it’s going to take time for them to understand all the features fully.

I find it bizarre people are doubting Konami’s future on the PS4. Konami to go forward essentially have to go backwards in getting PES on the PS4 to play like PES 2013 with all the new technology implemented. That is exactly what their vision is and what they are aiming for, but it’s not as easy as we think gameplaywise.

We need to let this go as a community, stop all this Jeremy Kyle show like point scoring petty arguments on who is cheap or who doesn't agree with the majority opinion. Shit, we should of let all the frustration go years and years ago.

Our expectations are too high, we get dragged far too much into hype, expecting perfection, I said when the first trailer hit, this edition will have issues to contend with, you create a whole new engine from scratch, there was no chance the game would be faultless when you enter into the unknown like this.

We believe too much 'The customer is always right'. We lose sight of our own perception and awareness while dealing with something we are supposed to actually 'enjoy' not fight and throw our egos about to get in with the majority opinion or arrive with tons of preconceptions and instead of discovering the game, instead we expect it to play to what essentially our ego can handle. Gaming has been dubbed down so much over the years, becoming easier and easier, I think we need to take a step back, remember the days when just finishing an adventure game would be an achievement in the early 90's. The key was learning how to beat a game and embracing the game for what it did, not looking for what isn't even there in the game in the first place.

I think it's too easy just to look at Konami's failings and blame all this negative energy on them. I think across the board in the PES world, with Konami's PR needs a serious revamp, Konami, need to be a little more aggressive with their securing of licences and more diligent with it's updates and bug fixes. We as a community need to let the past go. The PS2 era was so different to now it's night and day compared to today’s industry. Why where we expecting a perfect football game in a year with brand new engine.

This game has a fair few issues, they seem to be happening more on Superstar than on other levels, I haven't seen many good we rounded posts here, so much anger over one or two things then the negativity sets in. I think Konami have messed up the most this year with their updates and Superstar level being a mess, I give them credit though for trying hard and getting all that work done to get a game running on their new engine out.

As you have easily worked out I'm not saying this game is perfect, I'm not even deflecting criticism which is due, the point here is how we deliver criticism is to be honest a joke here. There is a big air of 'desperation' from us all, so 'frustrated' all the time. We need to all relax more; we really do, less Prima Donna like posts in which you’re desperate for everyone to agree with your disgruntlement or abusing others who can't play.

The best example of what is wrong here is someone will find something wrong, state it, which s perfectly fine but will do absolutely zero investigation into why this thing is wrong and take perspective to what is needed to be calculated, how hard it is to balance it out, he will just shout and whine like a child and the negative energy sets in.

The way we carry on, we aren't helping ourselves or Konami. I'm a big believer in self responsibility to move forward, if you keep pointing fingers at others all the time you lose awareness of what your doing wrong yourself.

Being away from home and away from the internet mostly for so long has made me thing about why this place is so highly strung up. Whatever happened to us enjoying ourselves, what are we all emo's or something?
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Great post Klash - I think it's all about instant gratification, a lot of people don't want to put the work in, which is fine - but those of us who do see a completely different game
 
vxcmplx said:
I don't really use the thru ball button anymore. There was a bug in the advance through ball button on PS3, so I've altogether stopped using this button. Manual pass or L2 manual pass seems to do the job well enough. Can you actually put spin/swerve on advance through ball?

I still have some trouble when trying to use advance through balls under pressure. It seems like you will get delays in all your motion inputs when someone is pressuring you (physically in contact with you. Not complaining. I think it's realistic that a player have trouble moving fluidly when someone's shoulder barging them or tugging their shirt), the "target" thing would go way beyond where you wish it to go. I seem to be better at using L2 manual to play passes into space, and L2+circle for long balls over the top (this seems to have some nice backspin to it when it hits the ground too).
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You know you can control the distance/direction of the target with the analogue stick? It's not all about the pass power
 
expat said:
You know you can control the distance/direction of the target with the analogue stick? It's not all about the pass power
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Can you bring back the target if it reaches too far? I never tried bringing it back, as I was under the impression that it would take an effect on my dribbling direction as well..
 
vxcmplx said:
Can you bring back the target if it reaches too far? I never tried bringing it back, as I was under the impression that it would take an effect on my dribbling direction as well..
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Yes you can bring it back, you can curl long high passes and even use it for headers to head into the path of a player. Rather than looking for a player directly every time try and knock the ball into space for a player to run onto - you can do this with short passes too
 
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This place even though can be negative, at least you can still engage in level-headed argument. No petty cheapshot, insult etc. That's why i left PESFAN and WENB.
 
For once i had the Playstation for me alone (both kids away) and i have played the post-patch PES2014 for hours.
Is this a perfect game ? No, not at all, it still has it's flaws (the stutter is still there at times).

But the game has definitely improved.
It runs smoother although i still have issues changing the cursor when defending (at times it seemed worse than before the patch).
I honestly don't understand the issues some people have. I've been fouled regularly (perhaps not enough to be realistic, but i'm talking about 3 or 4 fouls in one match...).
I've also seen a couple of long distance attempts from the CPU team.

There is too much negativity around this game. I still think Konami treats their customers in a very bad way, but i can live with the game like it is.

I also think i know why there is much more negativity. We are getting older, have much less free time and don't have the time to spend hours tinkering the game (kits, boots, changing the names of the players, changing the leagues).

The other game is an easy pick-up and as a game and a finished product still is the better one, there is no doubt about that imo.

Why do i play much often PES then ?

Well, i've been playing football or coaching it for 40 years now and i can say that PES (despite all the flaws) is still the only game where you have to think like on a real football pitch. FIFA is a brilliant game but despite everything that is good about it (and it is very good), to me (and perhaps this is very subjective), it doesn't feel like football. When playing it, you don't have to think like on a football pitch.
 
Enlil said:
That's because KONAMI doesn't know what to fix. after the game was released they finished the game. they never ever searched forums and listen to fan feedback. they just finished their game which became final after the november patch.
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Lol. If you think PES was broken, you have not experienced battlefield 4.

The reason that the game needs a changelog that long because so much shit was broken at release, I think theres been like 2 gb worth of patches applied. And it wasn't minor shit - but stuff like explosions crashing servers and booting every one off.

I think a lot of people here don't really understand whats going on in the rest of the game development world. Konami are hardly solely culpable here - the BIGGEST game developers have all had major problems (IMO much MUCH more than PES 2014) has.

Does not justify Konami's behaviour, but I think people need a little more perspective.
 
gerd said:
Well, i've been playing football or coaching it for 40 years now and i can say that PES (despite all the flaws) is still the only game where you have to think like on a real football pitch. FIFA is a brilliant game but despite everything that is good about it (and it is very good), to me (and perhaps this is very subjective), it doesn't feel like football. When playing it, you don't have to think like on a football pitch.
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This. I tried my best with FIFA 13, but it is simply not as you see/play football. Even NG videos show how unrealisticly players, light as feathers, move or pass. That's why I am tolerating all the shortcomings of PES.

Even though, I don't even see too many of them. Playing on PC and usually exhibition matches offline, as well as an occasional cup, I wish two things were fixed - defensive AI and CPU passing the ball around (and I believe, these two are highly related). If they would be, well, I'm perfectly happy with the game.
 
^

What is with defensive AI ? the high line ? if that's the case, we can manually use d-pad to adjust it while defending, works very well. However, automatically, it tends to be high line though. Personally, I would like the high/deep line works more based on tactics on gameplan rather than d-pad adjustment.
 
niharjhatn said:
Lol. If you think PES was broken, you have not experienced battlefield 4.

The reason that the game needs a changelog that long because so much shit was broken at release, I think theres been like 2 gb worth of patches applied. And it wasn't minor shit - but stuff like explosions crashing servers and booting every one off.

I think a lot of people here don't really understand whats going on in the rest of the game development world. Konami are hardly solely culpable here - the BIGGEST game developers have all had major problems (IMO much MUCH more than PES 2014) has.

Does not justify Konami's behaviour, but I think people need a little more perspective.
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Agree.. However, I think the communication style from Konami since the release of the game heated up people reaction though.
 
Thespeedster84 said:
^

What is with defensive AI ? the high line ? if that's the case, we can manually use d-pad to adjust it while defending, works very well. However, automatically, it tends to be high line though. Personally, I would like the high/deep line works more based on tactics on gameplan rather than d-pad adjustment.
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I think there are two problems with defensive AI: the high line and poor positioning/urgency around the penalty area. The problem with high line is not that much that AI always keeps high line, but rather that it fails to react and adjust when the ball is lost, and you always have to do it manualy with D-pad. When AI has time, it places defensive line according to the tactical settings - you can test it on your own goal kicks and see that with low values AI defenders comfortably position themselves in their own half. The real problem lies in the defensive transition in the moment when the possession is lost.

Second one is related with the lack of defensive compactness around penalty area. Now you can see that four defenders are defending, when midfielders, who should also drop back to a tight unit and put pressure on attackers, wander 10 meters away and simply watch the action.
 
vxcmplx said:
Try to double flick the R-stick in the direction you want to shoulder charge. But becareful, you can easily concede a foul.

I feel like there's at least 2 types of animations with the R-stick physical play:
- holding R-stick in direction = shirt tugging
- flicking or double or triple flicking R-stick in direction = shoulder barging

I've noticed your chances of winning the ball with shoulder barging, without getting called for a foul, is greater when you use a strong physical player to do it. On the other hand, if I used someone like Iniesta to barge Robben off the ball, I always get fouls. It's a nice detail. It's got a nice new layer of decision making and judgement in gameplay. The battling players' size matters, the context matters, the wrong decisions are punishable. You have to think about if you want to use physical pressure in each defending situation, coz there will be trade-offs. Unlike in previous series, where spamming pressure was allowed. I've conceded too many penalties from shoulder barging...but I love it. This game gives you serious punishments for panicking, dribbling or defending alike.

Another suggestion is to space apart your R-stick flicks, so that the ref will let it go instead of calling it a foul.
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vxcmplx said:
Which type of tackling are we talking about here? R1+X? In PES2014, R1+X only allows you to pressure a ball carrier in his "assumed trajectory" (*see the 2nd spoiler below for elaboration). In fact, R1+X isn't even a tackle, you need to double tap X for a tackle. R1+X is the pressure button (X) in older PES versions. It's the bum rush move that's always been there. But it's different in the 2 ways now in PES2014:
- that you can actually wrong-foot defenders
- body check fouls don't happen as often now, as compared to last year's PES2013

I feel that we need to isolate and itemize these things in order to discuss them.

Do you have lag in your online games? Because this changes everything. It's difficult to wrong-foot defenders when you are experiencing online lag. The #1 most important thing for this game to function vs human players, is that you can only play properly when there's no online lag.

It's true that most body checks do not get foul calls in PES2014. But it's also true that this game requires you to be more reactive than previous PES versions. You have to think of which dribbling component you want to use: proactive or reactive. When there's no lag, you can actually find time and space to make decisions that will allow you to deal with pressuring defenders.
- For proactive dribbling (aka you trying to take on a defender proactively), if you run into someone else's body, I think it's fine that fouls don't get given. This partly solves the problem of those junkie one-man-whoring dribblers of older PES versions.
- For reactive dribbling (kinda like stationary dribbling, you are more or less stationary, reading the incoming challenge and trying to beat the challenge), it's pretty easy to spin someone off your orbit, if he's holding R1+X (if you don't have online lag).

I'm more of a reactive player. Depending on your strength/style, the experience may be different.

I played online using manual shooting and passing. When the game doesn't lag, I don't have trouble playing against people who spam R1+X. Body checks don't get called often, but I can obviously see them coming and avoid them when there's no online lag. I'm also happy about the fouls called post-patch against mistimed tackles (not the R1+X kind, but the double tap X and the single tap circle variety). I've drawn red cards in online games from my opponents.

I wrote about this in a different forum (and also partly here on evoweb). There's enough people complaining about this that I think I need to post this here. It's a bit long so I'll put it in spoiler quotes:


Regarding the current state of R2 dribbling:

Regarding the current state of R1+X defending (also here: http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=2822208#post2822208)

Regarding the R-stick usage:


To me, the dribbling and defending mechanisms are part of the same discussion really. Once you make sense of the capabilities/limits of the defense mechanisms, then you also know how much time/space you really have when someone's defending you.

I respect that you feel differently, I'll try to spend some time to feel out other nuances when I play more games online (post-patch). But so far my experience is that if the game does not lag online, there is SO MUCH you can do against blind pressuring defenders.
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these two posts are top. thanks very much.
 
Played a mate yesterday whohas made the shift from PES topercieved greener pastures and he isn't enjoying PES because for him its too cumbersome. Heis annoyed with the touch needed when the player receives a pass and inablity to turn quickly.

He is frustrated with the lack of dribbling which he seems to have a genuine issue with. I was able to glide past 3 of his defenders with minimal use of the feints butcan see he is not feeling it like he did 2013.

He says FIFA is much easier and a lot more fun because of it.

I on the otherhand prefer that PES is going this route of realism - taking body weight, momentum and inertia into consideration.

Is this the problem? Has PES become too hard to master?

If it is how many people feel this way? Is this going to mean it is either fun or realism? Can you have both? Lots of questions that I think only time will answer. I think Konami should just. Stick to their guns. PES2015 should justbe an improvement. Theycanbuild from this base as EA have done since FIFA10. Constant chopping and changing alienates your fans. Both hardcore and casual.
 
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