PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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@Daisuk

Thanks for your perspective.

I like and enjoy both games and my post was only to illustrate the uphill battle that the PES franchise finds itself in. I grew up FIFA to the core being a US based customer.

My son loves the sport and knows nothing of the politics that dominates its everyday existence. PES may not be more sophisticated in your eyes I just feel it is harder to score and a little more nuanced as far as build up is concerned. However if I ask my son which game he wants to play most I think I know what his answer will be.

The game of Football is to damn big to only have two companies representing it. I would like to see a third player in the market with their virtual perspective on how the game should be played.

P.S. I have visited both your sites you are a very creative and visual dude.Very nice art by the way.
 
DeaconBlues said:
FIFA caters to its audience so well.


Wanted to spend some time with the 6 year old so I invited him into the Man Cave. Set up a 10 minute game Beginner difficulty Advance through Basic shot. Off everything else on his control settings with Real Madrid. By the 35 minute he is crying because he has not scored yet. At the half I let him know that the CPU poses no threat and that if he plays his game he will win. Game ends 2-1 my son wins

From there I fire up FIFA13 2 button control Amateur difficulty with Real Madrid. He scores with in the first 3 minutes and the game ends 5-0 with my son being the winner.

I can wax poetic about the intricacies of PES till I am blue in the face. Guess which game my son wants to play most.



I love the Franchise and what it tries to replicate. I fear in this day and age that it is simply not enough for the Ritalin crowd.
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There is quite big inconsistency here.

You let your son play with FULL controls setup on PES 2014 (advanced through balls/basic shooting, rest off).

You then let your son play FIFA, with crippled down controls (2 button configuration!!).

Sorry, but such comparison is bullshit. If you wanted some credibility, you would let your son play Alternative control setup with manual through balls.

Plus I find difficulties are done well on FIFA and do exactly what is written on the tin, whereas on PES, it's a bit messed up.

Professional can play better football on PES than Superstar... WTF is that about?

Here is what I saw from FIFA AI and how it scales (of course it is just from my observation, so not take this for granted):

Beginner AI - doesn't use tricks/skill moves, plays very basic football, very easy to beat
Semi-Pro AI - AI starts to build up play a bit more, starts to use basic skill moves to beat defenders, overall reactions of players improve.
Professional - pretty much similar to above, but AI is becoming more aggressive in front of goal and starts to shoot more from outside the box. More variety in attacking patterns.
World Class + Legendary - AI will start to use all mechanics which are given to user too. On PC with MW patch, you can be sure you won't see pattern from AI fast here.

IN ALL difficulties there should not be problems seen with goalkeepers, but on lower difficulties the reactions of players are downgraded.

You cannot see such scaling going on with Pro Evo. Except for Goalkeepers, AI on PES plays the same, every time. Hoof the long ball forward, or through ball to wingers, cross, tap in. Repeat.

There is no variety what Suuuuupertalk already noticed.
 
HaHa my brother Info you funny than a motherfucker responding to my interaction with Daisuk. I guess I could get all wordy with you and try to argue the merits of fucking game but the way you post your FIFA videos in the PES thread I already know what trip you are on.


To keep it 100% real your game that you prefer has a 2 button config the game I prefer this year does not. We can do this PM so as not to derail this all time important debate.


However I do see the point you are trying to get across. Next time I let the man cave air out I will set up FIFA 13 with the controls that I play with. Semi shot. Semi cross Manual everything else.

Instead of a 5-0 scoreline. I predict he will have a 3-0 scoreline.

I will post as soon as matches are played.
6 years old 5 minute game. Amateur difficulty Semi shot. Semi cross Manual everything else.
 
DeaconBlues said:
@Daisuk

Thanks for your perspective.

I like and enjoy both games and my post was only to illustrate the uphill battle that the PES franchise finds itself in. I grew up FIFA to the core being a US based customer.

My son loves the sport and knows nothing of the politics that dominates its everyday existence. PES may not be more sophisticated in your eyes I just feel it is harder to score and a little more nuanced as far as build up is concerned. However if I ask my son which game he wants to play most I think I know what his answer will be.

The game of Football is to damn big to only have two companies representing it. I would like to see a third player in the market with their virtual perspective on how the game should be played.

P.S. I have visited both your sites you are a very creative and visual dude.Very nice art by the way.
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Yeah, I completely agree. I think we're going to see a third party football game producer for the next-gen era, there just have to be someone who sees a potential in this now, when none of the two big ones are really cutting it.

I do agree though, that PES demands a bit more of a player, you do need to build up play a bit more, and in general it feels a bit more "weighted" or balanced, but the differences this year aren't that big in my opinion (much due to PES being inferior to what it used to be back in the PSX/PS2 era, and Fifa having gotten better). But I do believe the core of this year's PES has potential, it just has A LOT of bugs/unfinished parts that needs addressing (no need to mention them for the n'th time, hehe). :)

Oh, and thanks for the compliment on the "art" stuff, I appreciate that. :)
 
Played a longer session yesterday and now i'm almost done with the game.

Not one single shot attempt from long range from the AI in over 100 games now. Not one goal from the AI after a corner (lousy and weak head attempts all the time). Almost every goal is a goal in the box, on both sides. You see trough ball attempt after trough ball attempt from the AI. I can't stand this. That is not football at all.

There is so much wrong with playing against the AI. I don't believe they gonna patch half of the problems. Yes, passing feels so good, the animations are so, so nice but if you look at the AI it is clearly a step back.

To be honest i would have sold every other game already. That's for sure. I don't even know why i still have it, probably I'm just to much football addicted. Probably i'm just naive enough to believe in a November miracle. I don't know. Today i have some free time but no desire to play PES. Disappointing.
 
Daisuk said:
I do agree though, that PES demands a bit more of a player, you do need to build up play a bit more
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I would have agreed with this if we were talking about previous versions but the AI is so bad in this that most of the time, when I score a goal it's because the COM steps aside and lets me walk the ball into a goal scoring chance. And even then I don't shoot until I'm close enough that I know the game will allow the shot to perhaps go in.

I've never played a version of PES where the game just opens up and lets you score like this, and on its highest difficulty too.

Oh and another thing I forgot to mention was the way player first touch has been toned down to the point where all players have virtually the same levels of trapping ability. Combine that with R2 trap and even the worst players can trap the ball like Pirlo. Not realistic at all.
 
DeaconBlues said:
HaHa my brother Info you funny than a motherfucker responding to my interaction with Daisuk. I guess I could get all wordy with you and try to argue the merits of fucking game but the way you post your FIFA videos in the PES thread I already know what trip you are on.


To keep it 100% real your game that you prefer has a 2 button config the game I prefer this year does not. We can do this PM so as not to derail this all time important debate.


However I do see the point you are trying to get across. Next time I let the man cave air out I will set up FIFA 13 with the controls that I play with. Semi shot. Semi cross Manual everything else.

Instead of a 5-0 scoreline. I predict he will have a 3-0 scoreline.

I will post as soon as matches are played.
6 years old 5 minute game. Amateur difficulty Semi shot. Semi cross Manual everything else.
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Then you do know very little. What I posted from FIFA in here is just some areas PES could improve on. You would have known that if you did read my posts. There are things FIFA and EA Sports actually DO well in their games.

Shame that PES Team forgot about unpredictability this series once had. Seriously, pick any of PES on PS2 and you will see what I mean.

PES 2014 does have some magic in it, I was in joy scoring this goal with Ronaldinho:

YouTube - PES 2014 - Ronaldinho volleyed goal

or doing something like this (leaving defender flat footed showing momentum thingy):

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - CR7+Morata combination

But even though those were fun moments, it won't let me forget about things which absolutely ruin the game for me.

Goalkeepers:

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - Goalkeepers are still retarded mess. Near Post Glitch/Bug HD

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - GK circus stunt in HD

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - GK Blooper, yet again!

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - GK blooper again HD

Believe me the above are just a tip of an iceberg. Go to WENB forum to find out about more problems this game has, including lack of powerful shots at all from long range, that is from outside 25 yards out. You know SUCH GOALS DO HAPPEN.

There is no variety in shooting animations, there is no variety in header/chipped goals.

I have said it before, it looks like PES Team doesn't know what direction to take anymore, while EA has clear view on what they want to achieve and do.

It's a shame because I did enjoy PES series on PS2 days so much.

It didn't matter that it didn't have licenses.

Now PES 2014 has some great aspects: real-life looking animation, great collision system which looks realistic, great ball physics, build up play and pace of the game is spot on, etc.

However, I wish KONAMI did abandon PS3/X360 this time round. This engine DEMANDS next-gen hardware then there would be less issues visible.

I cannot stand: lack of rain/snow/overcast weather effects, instead of dynamic lightning we now have... Day/Night game modes (really? In 2013?). No afternoon matches?! Lack of stadiums. Having to play on 20 stadiums is a farce. It kills any sort of realism. We are still limited to D2 league as furthest league down. Sorry, but I want to take Conference team to EPL. Or Regional team from Germany to the top. League system needs COMPLETE overhaul as does Master League.

I won't write it all here, but there is massive work to be done to even compete with EA Sports and their franchise. GAMEPLAY ALONE IS NOT SUFFICIENT IN THIS AGE and ERA we are in.

The sooner people realize this, the better for whole PES franchise.

Hoping for big things with November patch, but won't be holding my breath.

Btw calling someone motherfucker? Really? That warrants you a nice warning or strike from Moderator.
 
info0 said:
GAMEPLAY ALONE IS NOT SUFFICIENT IN THIS AGE and ERA we are in.
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Agree,

previously all arguments would hold, even the limitation of the consoles, but with other franchises expanding their resources KONAMi can not be left behind. Even if they left everything in that was in pro evo before, people would be more than satisfied, but with so much missing, their acts can no be justified.

One of the reason allot of people buy the pc version.
 
info0 said:
YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 - GK circus stunt in HD
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That one is great! I mean, yes it's dumb, but it still looks realistic, the keeper desperately trying to do something and failing in a spectacular way.

I'm enjoying the game a bit more now that I moved the speed up to normal. I stubbornly held on to -1 for a bit too long, I now think normal speed is the way. Although I agree with most issues which have been brought forward recently, I still have my hands full with the AI. My Heerenveen is barely in the top half of the league and when the met Ajax they suffered a horrendous 6-0 loss (well, I did, on professional).

There is so much stuff greater than in PES 2013 in this game and therefore it's so jarring that it still seems like a step back. Having 2-3 formations to switch between on the fly is very good this year, going to all attack can be used to great effect, in PES 2013 it also made a difference in attack but the midfield almost disappeared which made it very hard to build up play, not this time. I always set up two formations, possession play and attack. Haven't really felt the need to set up a defense one, since when I am up one goal I hardly feel like parking the bus and when I', 2+ up there is rarely need to.
 
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Gameplay alone is ample for me, but this year it just ain't up to scratch. New game engine and animations has clouded people's judgements I think, it's a lot less complex than it's given credit for.
 
I need some more freedom from crosses to move receiving player without super-cancel. The automatic on rail run for a player to chase free ball should really go. A disappointing example is lets say a player is "automatic" run for a long or chip through ball, and there is cpu defender "automatic" run to it too.

Then although the ball is coming to the ground near you but there is a defender with faster pace or better position. He is predictable to be the one who receive the ball, pressing anything would not change the outcome. Meanwhile, I am expecting a some sudden move, trap, by my player but he just resist to do anything. :RANT: Especially if the ball come from behind your attacker.
 
@info0

Info I do sincerely apologize for the whole MF statement I hate to use the excuse of where I come from but seriously me calling you that almost makes us online cousins.(haha)

However you do not know me or my sense of humor so I can see how you were offended.I do apologize.


I am coming up to two full weeks with this PES14 and have not gotten tired of it yet. It was/is depressing to read some long time posters impressions of this game. I mean when the G-force is not to fond of a PES title you know something is not quite right.


Set up another game with my preferred control setting in FIFA13 and let little man have at it and the game ended 2-0. I then asked him what control setting he preferred and he quickly answered his.Him only being 6 years old I can understand his need for a high scoreline.


Info I am an old an ornery type of guy and for me GAMEPLAY ALONE IS SUFFICIENT I guess I am just spoiled like that I clearly know what i want in a football sim. Another point to make is choice and variety I simply prefer PES because it is so different from FIFA.

BTW nice editing when putting together your videos after I pay the gas bill I will have to look into some video capturing software.
 
Isslander
It does kind of give you the feeling that the fabric of reality has been altered somehow, doesn't it.
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Like a MF (haha) Clearly a rushed product and yes the fabric of reality has been altered. Bizarro vs Superman type shit.
 
Isslander said:
It's a nice feeling to be in a sort of "hardcore" crowd but we are not the ones that will keep this game releasing year after year.
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This would hold true for me if the gameplay in PES 2014 was out-of-this-world amazing. Unfortunately, I don't think it is. It's quite the feat for any game to be so good that it makes up for the overall package. Still, I'm looking forward to the patch and playing 2 vs CPU.
 
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Redhat said:
This would hold true for me if the gameplay in PES 2014 was out-of-this-world amazing. Unfortunately, I don't think it is. It's quite the feat for any game to be so good that it makes up for the overall package. Still, I'm looking forward to the patch and playing 2 vs CPU.
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That's exactly it, and that's exactly why PES came up as a competitor to FIFA back in the day - superior gameplay. What do they have left when they don't even have that?

Well, it's a shame that this year's game is so unfinished, we can only hope the update patches will rectify some of that, but at least they seem to have a pretty good engine to build future versions on. It's just a shame that we have to say this every year, it's almost like following Spurs back in the day, "ah, well, next season ..."-kind of mentality. I don't know how PES-sales are this year or how that has developed over the year, but I can't imagine PES having gotten a lot of new fans with this year's version.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Gameplay alone is ample for me, but this year it just ain't up to scratch. New game engine and animations has clouded people's judgements I think, it's a lot less complex than it's given credit for.
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Exactly, its AI certainly appears to be much more basic than in PES2013. A few silky animations can't mask that.

Every match feels the same, defensive AI is appalling and attacking AI seems next to non-existent. They all just stand around and occasionally make some stupid, exaggerated 40-yard run off the ball and still keep going even when they're now 20 yards offside.

Combine that with keepers that only allow certain specific kinds of shots to go in, and even then, they manage to ruin the feeling of scoring a goal by doing some rubbish keeper routine, and you've got the most repetitive game I've ever played.

I won't go on about it anymore but it's the most disappointing game I've ever played.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Exactly, its AI certainly appears to be much more basic than in PES2013. A few silky animations can't mask that.

Every match feels the same, defensive AI is appalling and attacking AI seems next to non-existent. They all just stand around and occasionally make some stupid, exaggerated 40-yard run off the ball and still keep going even when they're now 20 yards offside.

Combine that with keepers that only allow certain specific kinds of shots to go in, and even then, they manage to ruin the feeling of scoring a goal by doing some rubbish keeper routine, and you've got the most repetitive game I've ever played.

I won't go on about it anymore but it's the most disappointing game I've ever played.
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Try to boot up pes 6 now and you'll be shocked.

Yesterday i've tried and had some jaw dropping expierence seeing cpu making 3 long range shot attempts on just 1st half and some passing around in final third. Only considering AI there it feels like more advanced video game than pes 14.

Only explanaition i can figure why we can't have any of this in current pes games is that they don't have such talented developers to create authentic gameplay since cg. More processing power and fancy engines don't make the sports game whole, you need put thought in the game to re-create basics of it.
 
TheTud said:
Try to boot up pes 6 now and you'll be shocked.

Yesterday i've tried and had some jaw dropping expierence seeing cpu making 3 long range shot attempts on just 1st half and some passing around in final third. Only considering AI there it feels like more advanced video game than pes 14.

Only explanaition i can figure why we can't have any of this in current pes games is that they don't have such talented developers to create authentic gameplay since cg. More processing power and fancy engines don't make the sports game whole, you need put thought in the game to re-create basics of it.
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Exatly what I´m feeling. I fire up WE9LE now and then and the result is shocking and frustrating. Why can´t they make something similar?

I keep wondering why companies whant to reinvent the wheel,when they already have done it!!! They only needed to make it slightly better but "NOOOOOO, lets make another wheel, YEAAAHHH!" :SHAKE:
 
I don't know about PES 6, guys, I loved it at the time, but it feels quite dated now, in all honesty. Lots of choppy animations and not enough fluidity, in my opinion. I've gone back to PES 6 several times when I've been disappointed with current gen PES, but have never really stuck with playing it. :p
 
Daisuk said:
I don't know about PES 6, guys, I loved it at the time, but it feels quite dated now, in all honesty. Lots of choppy animations and not enough fluidity, in my opinion. I've gone back to PES 6 several times when I've been disappointed with current gen PES, but have never really stuck with playing it. :p
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They are not talking about animations. They are talking about things FIFA taken from KONAMI games to make them what they are now.

Even Rutter openly admitted he is big Evo fan from PS2 days.

AI was and still is challenging for me on PES5 :LOL:. I cannot beat ****** stars AI.

There were also things like ball physics (though those are very nice on PES 2014), player runs, player awareness, individuality both in player and teams, power in long range shots, better goalkeepers! Sure all of this is dated now in terms of graphics, lack of 360 dribbling and all over fluff :).

You know, PES Team tries too hard to make something better. They had great formula back then and even rating at the end of match worked like it should (1-10 scale with 0.1 increase :D) and there was written text why that particular guy won MOTM, pop out when you scored goal showing in TV presentation, etc.

We moved forward in time, we have new technology available, but they cannot achieve the same success as in PS2 era. I ask why is that the case?! Why FIFA could do that copying PES and achieve success on that base and original team who made PES3-PES6 cannot do that?!

Something is very not right here. :P
 
Nope. Just stated the truth.

Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 is good as beta, it has very good fundamentals, but rest is just not matching up.

Sadly, Nov patch won't fix many missing factors left out by producers at development stage.

Some things can be fixed by modders like missing kits/faces, but missing stadiums, so far, cannot be added.

Thus I may leave PES this year. Have got some other games in stock to play :).

Next year they might bring what we all have been waiting for so long, who knows...
 
zeemeister said:
@info you underground fifa promoter?

stop it.
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I totally agree with his last post about PES5. Those MOTM's are one of the countless good features that are gone from the game. It seems as if we are getting less and less of similar things each year.

You just can't stand the truth being told. I'm also a massive PES fan, you know...
Even Jimmy isn't a satisfied customer this year...
 
info0 said:
Nope. Just stated the truth.

Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 is good as beta, it has very good fundamentals, but rest is just not matching up.

Sadly, Nov patch won't fix many missing factors left out by producers at development stage.

Some things can be fixed by modders like missing kits/faces, but missing stadiums, so far, cannot be added.

Thus I may leave PES this year. Have got some other games in stock to play :).

Next year they might bring what we all have been waiting for so long, who knows...
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Agreed. Pes 2014 is a good beta game. It's unfinished product :BLEH:
 
info0 said:
They are not talking about animations. They are talking about things FIFA taken from KONAMI games to make them what they are now.

Why FIFA could do that copying PES and achieve success on that base and original team who made PES3-PES6 cannot do that?!

Something is very not right here. :P
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If you're implying Fifa copied PS2 PES' gameplay and AI then they've copied it all wrong.
 
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