PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Ipswich69 said:
Agreed with all points. Shooting is a little too dependent on body position in my opinion.Needs tweaking. Passing feels good this year. One bar is comfortable and rewarding but zero bars is where it's at for me. It provides just the right amount of freedom. There is error involved just like real football but it allows me to be very creative. I also never have to use the triangle button for through balls.
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For me, it's the opposite. It's as if nothing fundamentally is truly taken into consideration. In every PES since I can remember, if you nailed everything technically, as you would in real-life, you achieved the end result on the game. I just don't 'feel' it this year, and I'm utterly perplexed as to why that is.

I've been beating the whole posture/balance/technique drum for years, and with relevance. For me now, it's just not there, apparent or truly required.
 
Tell you what you all must have some spare time on your hands to spend hours and hours playing a game you hate! Two or three seasons into the Master League and you don't even like how it plays?!?!?

I'm lucky if I get to play 5 or 6 games a week and I love Pes 2014

This is a discussion thread? Mods, can we make a separate thread for complaining?

I'm off to watch five films I can't stand back to back.
 
You aren't alone ridders. Despite the flaws, i'm still enjoying it. I guess it's all subjective in the end; we aren't blind or in denial; most of us accept and have knowledge of the problems of the game, it just depends whether it is negligeable or gamebreaking for them.
 
AIR92 said:
You aren't alone ridders. Despite the flaws, i'm still enjoying it. I guess it's all subjective in the end; we aren't blind or in denial; most of us accept and have knowledge of the problems of the game, it just depends whether it is negligeable or gamebreaking for them.
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But if they consider it 'game-breaking', how come they're still playing the game? That's the odd thing.
 
Those who say that shooting is poor and GK is always bad:
YouTube - Goal
Just scored. Look at ball trajectory and GP reaction since he was almost blindfold by defender and another CF his save try was delayed...
 
ojejku said:
Those who say that shooting is poor and GK is always bad:
YouTube - Goal
Just scored. Look at ball trajectory and GP reaction since he was almost blindfold by defender and another CF his save try was delayed...
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What kind of astronomical chance to score that.
I played over hundred games many many long range attempts , but even if its very strong and right into corner gk just catch it like nothing.
 
Strange that people barely react to drekkrds post. To me this explains a lo, since i play the game in small doses (i think the most matches i've played is 3). This also explains why people who ply 20 minute matches love the game. The probabiliteit that they play less matches is higher.

Defending silence by Konami, meanwhile...
 
drekkard said:
HOW I LEARNED TO LOVE THE BOMB
(borrowing the title from Kubrick's movie, it's the best way I can describe my relationship with PES)

I want to focus in this post solely on performance/stutter and its impact to gameplay and how I totally love/hate the game depending on it and how it surprised (and infuriated, and astonsihed) me to discover the relationship between performance and gameplay, that goes further than I expected.

It all started thinking about different posts here about different aspects of the game and how the audience seemed to have totally different opppinions on some matters. And how performance seemed to be so suspect.

I did some test and what I found is at the same time infuriating, alleviating, ridiculous, encouraging or totally useless. It can be only in my mind for all I know. That's up to you.

MY SETTINGS
First of all the settings I play in:
Slim PS3, BRay edition with installed data on hard disk, updated version of the game, 1 Bar assistance for passing, Basic shooting and Through ball, -1 speed, Professional difficulty, 10 minutes long, 720p TV mode. It's already ridiculous when each of the items in this list can be/has been mentioned as part of the problem/solution for stuttering (or part of it), and Konami should be ashamed of that.

I actually play 10 or 15 minutes depending on the day, but let's assume I play 10 minutes which is easier (and shorter) to test.

I play mostly offline 1vsCPU. Game experience may change dramatically when other people join the game, be it online or offline.

PROLOGUE
I recall how my first matches in PES2014 felt very promising, I loved the game even if it was obviously flawed. While I learned the intricacies of control I was convinced it was the best footy game I had ever played.

In the process, I had to relearn how to play PES (didn't play much of it the last years), how to cope with through balls and how to defend properly and minimze the high deffensive lines. Then I wanted to improve my dribbling and my finishing, which suddenly started to feel awkward.

I did all that through 2 seasons of Master League with Barcelona, in which gradually I found I was fighting against the controls, the game stuttered, all the precision and joy went away and finally was experiencing a total mess. The game was properly schizophrenic. Soemtimes played great and sometimes it was a turd and lagged and stuttered like hell. The usual session would involve many matches and I always felt that the first match was the best one and from then on the experience was quickly degrading, to the point my players felt like shit. At the beginning, I blamed myself. You know, the more you play you maybe turn more mechanical, less patient and try to push things too much.

Then I thought it would be the effect of the new Heart feature or the usual CPU cheating in ML. I even posted a rant about it some pages ago. So I started a League with Saint Etienne (Professional, 10 minutes long, Saint Etienne default stadium). First matches felt good again for some reason, rediscovering the game. But it had the same evolving pattern with time. The more I played, the more I hated it. But every time I came back to it I though: hey, it's actually not that bad, I can dribble and do a lot of things I thought I couldn't. The right stick is great, shooting feels better . Yes, there's slow downs in the final third, but not as much as I recalled.

How can it be that after 5 matches I was hating the game so much? Then I read some posts here talking about how resolution improved performance and how the game felt totally different. From a technical point it's quite weird to think that resolution/performance could impact such things as AI behavior. So I decided to do a test.

A TEST
First of all I started the game and changed my default camera from Wide to a custom one. The first match felt much better, with less stuttering. Slowdowns on the box were obvious but not game breaking (I think it's unacceptable on a title like this, but that's another debate). But in my 5th match I was dragging again, my dribblings weren't sharp at all, my football quality had gone down quickly. I started to spot frame drops here and there.

So I reached the first important conclusion: the game has memory/performance leaks. The more matches you play in the same session, the worse it will be the performance and it will stutter more. I have verified this by playing the same game in different conditions through different saves (being the first match I play in a session, the 3rd or the 5th). There's a substantial difference in performance, the game gradually gets sluggish. The difference between the first and second matches were very subtle, if any. The difference between the fitst and 5th matches were obvious.

And here's the most important things I learned. Peroformance greatly affect a wide variety of things in the game, from AI to shooting, to dribbling... Why is that possible is one of the things I thought a lot while playing, but there's an obvious connection, so in some way the way it's programmed is highly dependant on the framerate of the performance.

One example is the right stick. In my first matches I could perfectly use the right stick in an intuitive way and achieve great movements through my opponents. Reaction times to my inputs were quick, precise and useful. I could easily rip appart defenders and create goal chances by dribbling with the right player. When the experience drags, the right stick starts to have unexpected outcomes, I'm unable to dribble like I did. All the joy of the right stick is lost, be it because the game can't properly recognize the movement (dropping frames may interfere with the recognition of the movement I did both in terms of duration or direction) be it because it can't represent it in the game.

And while the all the input and control schemes seem to suffer because of the frame drops, it seems that AI doesn't suffer it the same way. That's why when frame drop, the same dribbling that would be succesful in optimal conditions won't succeed. Strange? That's what I feel! Maybe the AI can read "between frames", because it's not connected to the visual layer of the game, so it can disrupt your dribbling easier. There's clearly a connection between frame drops and awkward AI behavior. The way the AI attacks or how they can evade me is totally different. Goalkeeper flops are more prone to happen when the game performs badly, the same way collisions may have awkward outcomes. Once, when stuttering a lot, I had a unnatural rebound of the ball that went like 100 meters up and spent 6 seconds before coming down to earth...

The more you play, the worse it gets the slowdown in the final third, up to a point which is comical. And the more floating shots get, be it because input lags and the system can't recognize your input with precision or because the lag made you shoot in a bad composure, too early, or only detected a tap of the shoot button instead of the powering you think you did. Shooting is always miles better the first match I play in a session. It doesn't mean it's perfect, it has the obvious flaws we all agree on (too hard to score from long range, lacks variation, etc...), but the distance between the shot I expected and the outcome is much shorter. As a reuslt of everything, my average of shot attempts in the best conditions is 14 per match on 10 minute games! When the experience degrades, the exact same match, I can have less than half of that. Performance is degrading my skills the same way it degrades the gameplay.

I feel in control in my first match of each session, I can even do close control dribblings, do some sharp turns inches away from the CPU player, first time shooting, heading, passing... everything seems to work properly. As a result, AI feel more natural, there's less stupidity and more effectiveness in all your movements and the CPU AI seems to play smarter (probably because when lagging your confusing inputs may disorient a nano-second reacting CPU design in an unexpected way). Yes, performance definitely impacts AI in a bad way. Things like individuality also get blurry when the game starts to drag. It kills the joy and the unpredictability as Jimmy put so clearly in his post.

MY CONCLUSIONS
Technically I think I understand why is happening, because the input layer, the rendering layer and the AI layers are all evolving at different speeds, to put it simple. That's the only explanation I can think of for my experience. If that's true, it means that the experience we all have can get extremely different depending on the hardware and software conditions of the game (from hardware specs to settings of the game).

That's why I ended up saving after each match, quitting the game and starting it again. And had the best session so far of PES 2014. At least in the circumstances I describe.

Clearly, the game has serious performance AND design problems in terms of programming. It's shocking and shows how rushed it was to adopt the new engine and how crap it was the merging of old and new tech. And clearly shows this game is in BETA state at best and shouldn't have been sold like this in the first place.

There's a great football game when everything works fine. Flawed, but still the best PES I've played. If Konami is able to fix this and put some stability to the game, even if they don't sort out things like long range shooting or the goalkeeper mess (don't you dare to bring him out) they will have a good game and fans will feel only a bit infuriated. If they can even fix some of the most glaring flaws, then the game has master-piece potential.

But if Konami doesn't fix performance properly, it will realy mean the end of the road. Because you can design a better or a worse game, but at least it should work out of the box. Having to quit the game after every match to play it properly is a joke.

PS: But I do it, because the few minutes that the magic lasts, it's a great product.
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I think that makes sense. I almost never play more than 3 games of 15 minutes in a row and never understood why people here complain so much about the game. Apart from the short post goalie problem (in some games) and the players awareness on loose balls the game plays great for me, and i´m also on PS3 with digital UK game.

Never had serious problems with response, input lag, shooting, frame rate drop (except on replays) etc, like a lot of people complain. Maybe that´s the reason. I guess from now on i will try to play like this also, quitting after one or two matches.
 
robbieryan said:
helps if you know how a game development process works.

throwing the baby out with the bathwater comes to mind.

'sack the testers' is as utterly moronic as it gets
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What say you that we give the testers a raise since they did such a good job on the PlayStation version.

Moronic is when someone talks out of their ass.
 
Anyone wonders why ea never has problems like these? They had the easier headers problem this year but fixed it in a week.
 
Very, very interesting, and i agree completely. That´s why playing on lower resolutions, and no patches, makes the game a much more enjoyable experience, almost a decent one if we forget all that is wrong with it.

Konami has a lot to answer for. It´s unforgivable what they have pulled of this time, and the fact they don´t even have a pes in line for next gen launch, tells me they will not recover from this debacle. Honestly, i really don´t give a fuck no more. Sorry.

I do play it offline, and have fun, but i dont care anymore. At this time and age, they have to deliver, work with their close fans, listen to them and make a solid product. They keep distant, and still don´t recognize how the community has made their games infinitely more enjoyable with caring patching and option file creations. After more than 10 years of this status quo, witnessing Konami rushing this half game, after all the promisses and removal of good teatures, it is time to let them fall.

So i will. After many years of nights with mates playing pes, we went the other way, not because its better, or even good, but because its solid and its finished. Sad but true.
 
AIR92 said:
You aren't alone ridders. Despite the flaws, i'm still enjoying it. I guess it's all subjective in the end; we aren't blind or in denial; most of us accept and have knowledge of the problems of the game, it just depends whether it is negligeable or gamebreaking for them.
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Feel the same. There are issues but none are anywhere near game-breaking for me. I don't have the slowdown/stutter/lag issues that some have. Time permitting I try to get in a couple of 20 min games a day and I love my time with it and enjoy the way the gameplay feels. Looking forward to a patch though that I hope will focus on improvements in the final third of the game -- shooting, attacking headers, defensive headers and keepers.
 
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I don't know it is just everything. Meanwhile the lack of effort from Konami is really hard to overcome. For example i've read a Twitter message from Konami that the transfers will coming soon - that was on 2.10. I mean what the fuck is soon in this Konami world?

It seems they give a shit, really. Are they even alive? Are they hiding from us? Why are they gone so silent? You don't do that with longtime fans of your franchise.

I don't think the game is that bad and i still have fun playing it. Even with all his faults. But i can't stand the way they treat her customers anymore.

It's a shame that we only have two football games on the market.
 
Robbery said:
I don't know it is just everything. Meanwhile the lack of effort from Konami is really hard to overcome. For example i've read a Twitter message from Konami that the transfers will coming soon - that was on 2.10. I mean what the fuck is soon in this Konami world?

It seems they give a shit, really. Are they even alive? Are they hiding from us? Why are they gone so silent? You don't do that with longtime fans of your franchise.

I don't think the game is that bad and i still have fun playing it. Even with all his faults. But i can't stand the way they treat her customers anymore.

It's a shame that we only have two football games on the market.
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Mate, grow up, for Christ sake!
 
Honome said:
Mate, grow up, for Christ sake!
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now complaining about something that does not seem right is childish? c'mon!!!

I continue: Where is the PC demo btw?. Where is steam btw?

I bet that on november they will say through Adam:

"Please understand the patch will come on january, keep playing!"
 
If it doesn't come on November, I'll never get a pes again. I too think they won't recover from this. I never thought they would go a step lower than the 2008 version. But they've outdone themselves.
 
We knew that the new engine was going to be an issue. 3 years imo is not near enough for a seemingly small development team. Also this engine is for next gen technology trying to fit this rolls royce into a VW love bug is just not going to work.

What worries me is that next year its a new console are konami going to struggle to fit this rolls royce engine back into the rolls?

People only have so much patience before they just forget about you.


I know people hated seabass but he had a way of always getting things to work just enough to make you play. His philosophy stuck through from the winning elevne days. No matter how limited or how outdated - the game played well enough.
I can undersatnd where jimmy is coming from. Personally though I still enjoy the game but FFS when I can't head a ball and that god awful slowdown does my nut in not to mention the shambles that is online connectivity.

The beta was cool but 15 people is the nost I have seen online which shows the customer has already moved on. Dangerous times for Konami and I can guarantee that the patch in November is not going to fix everything. I just hope its enough to keep us interested my PSN friends list is so densely populated with FIFA14 players and I can understand why people are shifting camp.

GET IT RIGHT KONAMI for all our sakes.
 
When you ruin shooting, you ruin the foundation of PES. Spending so much time doing a build up play, to only be disappointed by shooting. If you use power it goes into the keepers hands or into the bar, If you use less power it goes the way Konami want it to go and not what you intended. PES 2014 is the only game in history where everything works just fine in Training but comes match day, everything is scripted per Konami's wishes. I don't if I bought a game so that I can play it or watch it like a movie. Only Kei Masuda can tell.

#BringBackSeabass!
 
PES5 is often mentioned as the best in Pro Evo series. And PES5 had no crowds and had empty stands. Coincidence? The crowd graphics and animations clearly take a toll on the action on the pitch. This time, Konami even went to the extent recreating the crowd and stand atmosphere which further worsened the situation. As long as I can hear the crowd sounds, I'm happy for Konami to stick a crowds.jpg on the stands. No animations, no variety - Just a feeling that the stadium has some life - through sounds and noise plus a dead image.
 
Playing PES PC out of the box. Having a blast so far. Has it's issues, other than small gripes it plays like a game of football, and you have to build up like a game of football. If you go forward too quickly, you get crowded and found out. Simples.
 
BlueChampion said:
Pre-patch 1-bar passing was perfect. Post patch 1-bar passing became too assisted and scripted. Tested it several times.
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Think you have taken the concept of placebo to another level. I tested both. No difference in term of gameplay beside of player switching response, slight tweak to shooting weight and the addition of online component (as mentioned by Adam, officialpes and the changelog).

The thing with PES is you can never replicate the same situation twice as it have too much changing variables, never fixed in any sort of form.

Also they never disclose the details on the changelog. That's why each time when a patch roll out you got different kind of feedback even though it's just a simple Copa Libertadores update.
 
Apart from other problems, its been said that this game can´t work properlly in higher resolutions. I´ve tested it my self and though its not a miracle, it does change the game. It has a better flow and maybe because the engine is not so heavy on lower resoltuions, most bugs seem to happen less then in higher quality.
 
zeemeister said:
We knew that the new engine was going to be an issue. 3 years imo is not near enough for a seemingly small development team. Also this engine is for next gen technology trying to fit this rolls royce into a VW love bug is just not going to work.
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You're maybe right but im not sure about it. I mean there is another football game out there and this game doesn't look dated. It has nice graphics, nice animation, a decent physic system and this game runs smooth on your VW and online. Im not convinced that the VW is the problem.

But it do think that time is / was the problem. They release this game just to soon. A couple of month later and the game should be a lot better.

zeemeister said:
What worries me is that next year its a new console are konami going to struggle to fit this rolls royce engine back into the rolls?

People only have so much patience before they just forget about you.

The beta was cool but 15 people is the nost I have seen online which shows the customer has already moved on. Dangerous times for Konami and I can guarantee that the patch in November is not going to fix everything. I just hope its enough to keep us interested my PSN friends list is so densely populated with FIFA14 players and I can understand why people are shifting camp.
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They lost a lot of gamers already because it take so long until the patch arrive. And this people are not coming pack to take a look at the new patched game because they sold the game already. They leave this game with a very bitter taste in the mouth and some of them (not all - a year is long) won't forget if next year comes. So whatever the patch will do no matter how good or bad this patched game will be, the way they act this year has cost them a lot of fans (again).

I think you have to care more about your consumer in this days. It's not PS2 time anymore and people are living a social life on the Internet. You need to communicate with them about your product. People don't have patience at all anymore and it is not enough to tell them "a patch will come at a guess in November", "transfers won't be in November it will be sooner" and be silent then. People won't tolerate such an acting in this times. They leave you with a shitshorm that is how it is.

I won't think about next year to be honest it is to far away. I want a good game for me money this year and that is all that matters to me. I hope Konami understand and put everything in patching PES2014.
 
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I feel bad for pissing on people's parade, I really do. I know there is nothing worse than hearing negativity about a game you're really enjoying yourself. I'm mean Jeez, in 10 years, apart from PES 2008, when have I have been so damning about a PES game ? Never. The(football)boot has always been on the other foot.

But, I also don't want to come across as PES 'apologist', I always will state how I feel, even if the vast majority of my time here has always been in support. The reason for that, is because that is genuinely how I've felt. I'll call it how it is, good or bad. Sure, nearly all of my posts within my time here have been on the favourable side of PES, but if it's not right, I have to get it off my chest.

I love PES, I feel like I'm the biggest fanatic in the world, I swear by Konami. But by the same token, I can't lie.

It wasn't too long ago that I was staying up till stupid hours of the morning playing the game. Having maybe 3 hours sleep before work as I couldn't get off the bloody thing. I still enjoy offline ML, I'm still capturing so much on video, but the whole multi-player experience has really put me off the game.

I don't know what else to say, apart from the fact, I'm genuinely happy that a lot of people are getting a lot of enjoyment out of the game. And long may that continue. :)
 
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Robbery said:
I don't know it is just everything. Meanwhile the lack of effort from Konami is really hard to overcome. For example i've read a Twitter message from Konami that the transfers will coming soon - that was on 2.10. I mean what the fuck is soon in this Konami world?

It seems they give a shit, really. Are they even alive? Are they hiding from us? Why are they gone so silent? You don't do that with longtime fans of your franchise.

I don't think the game is that bad and i still have fun playing it. Even with all his faults. But i can't stand the way they treat her customers anymore.

It's a shame that we only have two football games on the market.
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Need more people like you around. Starting to despise coming to this forum when people are defending a company that sent out an unfinished game and have gone completely silent on the PlayStation problems.

Feeling like it's the new WENB.
 
I have an issue with the through balls in this game.<br />
<br />
The issue is that every time i do a through ball to a player, as soon as that player receives the ball, he automatically tries to pass the ball one touch as if i pressed the pass button!<br />
<br />
wtf?
 
have not bought it and no intention of buying it, regarding some of the comments on here. unless the patch fixes the issues
konami are not getting £35 off me for a rushed game. they can swivel.
 
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