PES 2014 Discussion Thread

[spektarm]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Agreed but I'd rather it were in my own hands to defend better against fast players than have the A.I decide when to implement player ID and when to ignore it all together and have Gerard Pique catching up with Theo Walcott over 5 yards

Exactly, it's a poor design choice, because they couldn't make the defence more aware of what's happening around them.

It's the sole purpose of the "catch up bug" - to make up for the lack of organisation in the defensive side of the game. It's been like this in quite a few of the last PES games.

 

[info0]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Sorry to say this, but how can you tolerate this aspect of the game? How can you defend Konami in this?

I know everyone is entitled to his opinion, but it's a case of something just not being realistic. You don't see defenders catching up so quickly with the quickest dribblers in the world like Messi for example. Just doesn't happen - if Messi get's behind the defence, it's over, they can't catch him.

Why did Konami do this to the game I ask myself... They couldn't make a well organised defence, with aware and smart defenders? Then they thought if we slow down attackers on the ball it will bring some balance?

Well, everything this does (at least for me) is piss me off and I don't want to play anymore, because it's nothing, and I mean, NOTHING like the real thing.

How could somebody even think that this is a good thing for a footie game? FFS they even went on the simulation route and now this...

I said it before. Messi can be caught up in real life. Watch some games. It's his ability to not fall down under challenge, agility, speed with dribbling when ball is at his feet that makes him so demanding for defenders.

Not his speed while running. That belongs to C. Ronaldo, Bale. However, like I said before, runner without ball will ALWAYS be faster than ball carrier. I am even certain of this. Ronaldo without ball run whole pich length in ~9 seconds I believe. Give him ball and... It will double. That's the difference simple BALL can make.

People should try to do experiment irl, so maybe, they would realize that what KONAMI did, is not necessarily unrealistic. It needs to be toned down a bit though (I know that some full backs/wing backs are FAST in real life, so that is not a problem if they catch up to Bale/C. Ronaldo/Walcott on wings, but seeing Mertesacker doing the same and catching up to Neymar... Is a bit eerie ).

There is also a case of momentum. With fast winger/striker you can make a fool of Central Defender if he is running after you at full pace. They are usually much stronger, taller and have much more weight to shift. If you suddenly make turn, you will see very realistic effect in Pro Evo. Something FIFA can only dream of!

Like I said, foundations for simulation are there already. It needs final polishing here and there though .

When it shines however, it's the best football video game EVER MADE. Period!

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Never mentioned commentary before but heard it last night and thought it had got worse. I normally turn it off but was amazed how poor it was.

Anyways - thats my last post on PES14. Looks like its another year of "next year" but trouble is we have heard that for 7 years. With PES15 they will probably roll out the "its our first game on next gen so PES16 should be perfect" bollocks.

See you in 12 months...................................

Come on Steel, yea the commentary is poor (turn the bastard off) and the rest of the package is serviceable, but the gameplay in this years PES is bloody superb.

 

[spektarm]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

I get behind the defence and stay ahead of them in PES 2014 at least as often as I see that happening in real football, which isn't a lot. What sort of challenge would this game be if I could just get past the opposition every other time I have the ball and go one on one with the keeper? Would be like playing...

You got that right, it's not happening a lot in real football. But that's not because when it happens slow defenders quickly catch up with fast attackers. It's because the whole defence is coordinated and well-shaped.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, you got 2 identical outcomes - you don't see attackers getting too many 1on1 chances - but the ways this happens in PES and in real life are well distinguishable.

Konami have taken the shortcut here.

I agree with info0, it needs to be toned down, I never said I wan't quick players running all over the place with the ball.

 

[stuartyd]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

I strongly disagree there is no catch up bug been finding it a bit easy with the faster players to breakaway from defenses once your through. Once this game is mastered the Ronaldo's will dominate this game.

I get behind the defence and stay ahead of them in PES 2014 at least as often as I see that happening in real football, which isn't a lot. What sort of challenge would this game be if I could just get past the opposition every other time I have the ball and go one on one with the keeper? Would be like playing...

If you use R1 correctly,you can run away from defenders.


THIS!

Firstly, I'm well aware of the R1 double press for sprinting and I use it but I still have the same issue with catch up.
Secondly the catchup "bug" works in my favour when defending and my player gets a sudden speed burst. It's complete nonsense

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Agreed but I'd rather it were in my own hands to defend better against fast players than have the A.I decide when to implement player ID and when to ignore it all together and have Gerard Pique catching up with Theo Walcott over 5 yards

By servicing him when he's in the right position and by effectively using R1 and jostle, as well as a varying run pattern, you can just about run and stay past anyone in the game with Walcott.

 

[spektarm]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

By servicing him when he's in the right position and by effectively using R1 and jostle, as well as a varying run pattern, you can just about run and stay past anyone in the game with Walcott.

Spot on! You described the problem with the "catch up bug".

In real life if you have Walcott running with the ball and Ferdinand chasing him, without any other players in front of Theo, he could run straight forward without changing direction or jostling or anything. Ferdinand would never be able to catch him.

Try it in training mode, run straight forward with Theo and have a slow defender running behind you - you'll notice it immediately. It needs toning down for sure.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Not his speed while running. That belongs to C. Ronaldo, Bale. However, like I said before, runner without ball will ALWAYS be faster than ball carrier. I am even certain of this. Ronaldo without ball run whole pich length in ~9 seconds I believe. Give him ball and... It will double. That's the difference simple BALL can make.

Not even remotely true.

Who is the fastest footballer with and without the ball?

It's a PESism that players are so slow with the ball. If you are multi-tapping R1, you should be pretty much as fast with as without the ball. In 2014 there's a huge loss of momentum when you do touch the ball, which is done to overcome the fact that it's actually quite easy for a runner from deep to break the offside trap. Two wrongs intended to make a right.

It's still the best football game I've played this generation, but let's not lose sight of the fact it gets a lot of stuff wrong too.

 

[Deluxe]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

"Those who complain of the "catch up bug" are formers deep lovers of the triangle"

 

[idem77]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Despite all the flaws in PES2014, I'm having tons of fun with it. Once you get the hang of it, it's amazing.

I really think you can't approach this game as you used to with previous PES. To me, it's just a different type of football game...

Trust me, I'm 37 and I can't remember having so much fun with a football game.... The pace, the animations, the passing, the dribbling and above all, the feeling that you are actually playing football by carefully creating opportunities to score....

Probably my biggest concern is that my wife is not so happy about PES2014 being so addictive...

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Spot on! You described the problem with the "catch up bug".

In real life if you have Walcott running with the ball and Ferdinand chasing him, without any other players in front of Theo, he could run straight forward without changing direction or jostling or anything. Ferdinand would never be able to catch him.

Try it in training mode, run straight forward with Theo and have a slow defender running behind you - you'll notice it immediately. It needs toning down for sure.

Picking a fast player and running willy nilly past the opposition all the time based on their stats would be absolutely no challenge at all. There has to be some level of skill and technique you must apply as a gamer in order to do that. It is possible you just have to know who the fast players are and couple that with opportunity and the tools available to you in the game. I've gotten past the defence and stayed there numerous times with lavetzi, over a short distance.

 

[spektarm]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Not even remotely true.

Who is the fastest footballer with and without the ball?

It's a PESism that players are so slow with the ball. If you are multi-tapping R1, you should be pretty much as fast with as without the ball. In 2014 there's a huge loss of momentum when you do touch the ball, which is done to overcome the fact that it's actually quite easy for a runner from deep to break the offside trap. Two wrongs intended to make a right.

It's still the best football game I've played this generation, but let's not lose sight of the fact it gets a lot of stuff wrong too.

Hey Rom, yet again an excellent post from you.

Picking a fast player and running willy nilly past the opposition all the time based on their stats would be absolutely no challenge at all. There has to be some level of skill and technique you must apply as a gamer in order to do that. It is possible you just have to know who the fast players are and couple that with opportunity and the tools available to you in the game. I've gotten past the defence and stayed there numerous times with lavetzi, over a short distance.

That's just too naive in my opinion, mate. As a player who's playing the only close-to-simulation game as of yet, I don't want to be presented with a challenge which is achieved by unrealistic means. I want the challenge to come from the defence leaving me no space to willy nilly past them by covering their zones and each other as they do in real life. And on the rare occasion when they fail to do so, I want to be able to run away from them just as it happens in real life.

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Not even remotely true.

Who is the fastest footballer with and without the ball?

It's a PESism that players are so slow with the ball. If you are multi-tapping R1, you should be pretty much as fast with as without the ball. In 2014 there's a huge loss of momentum when you do touch the ball, which is done to overcome the fact that it's actually quite easy for a runner from deep to break the offside trap. Two wrongs intended to make a right.

It's still the best football game I've played this generation, but let's not lose sight of the fact it gets a lot of stuff wrong too.

Agreed

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

I see people complaining about the commentary, agree its crap.

Then again commentary in real life is pretty crap these days anyway.

Commentators in general are boring and too politically correct. Only say nice things about certain players and hate players they don't know.

What a goal, what a save, what a tackle, amazing passing, what a special player, That was an outstanding goal for a decent finish. It's terrible.

FIFA's commentary is fucking awful, not as bad as PES but terrible, they just ramble on about whats happening in the real world and don't even follow the game properly anymore.

In terms of games, John Motson was great, he was the last good commentator. Clive Tyldsley was ok, but John champion and Martin Tyler and especially Alan Smith are annoying.

Commentators in the modern game just overhype everything, constantly all the time. Both games need a programming overhaul when it comes to commentary and i'm not getting my hopes up because commentary is not great these days anyway.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Hey Rom, yet again an excellent post from you.


That's just too naive in my opinion, mate. As a player who's playing the only close-to-simulation game as of yet, I don't want to be presented with a challenge which is achieved by unrealistic means. I want the challenge to come from the defence leaving me no space to willy nilly past them by covering their zones and each other as they do in real life. And on the rare occasion when they fail to do so, I want to be able to run away from them just as it happens in real life.

You can. All the tools are there to do it. Curious at to what platform you are playing the game on...

 

[AIR92]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

There is no catchup bug.

You know... somebody could simply just make a video in training with Arsenal 2 players, one with metersacker and one with walcott. One player runs without the ball with metersacker back and forth, while walcott runs with R1 held for the first try, and tapping r1 for the second try. Another test,would include how fast walcott can run with metersacker tugging his back.

At the moment, can't really this coz i'm at uni; but i got a distinct feeling there isn't really a catchup bug whatsoever. I think Konami nerfed the hold R1 sprint, and made tugging at someones back overpowered. I'm pretty sure that tapping the R1 button allows the player to sprint much much faster.

 

[spektarm]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

You can. All the tools are there to do it. Curious at to what platform you are playing the game on...

PC, with an Xbox 360 controller. I agree that the tools are there, but sometimes you only need to run towards the goal in real life - no fancy turns or change of dribbling speed, direction, etc. In PES you never have that chance, just test it in training mode with 1 attacker and 1 defender. I already did - I wouldn't be saying all this if I hadn't. As Rom said, when the player touches the ball, he becomes 2 times slower even if he had momentum before he got on the ball.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

You can. All the tools are there to do it. Curious at to what platform you are playing the game on...

Go on then, how do I run in a straight line and open up the gap between me and the much slower defender? Tapping R1 for the kick-and-run doesn't work. It's one thing saying we can hold a defender off, but why is the defender gaining on us when the stat deficit is so clear? Why can Ferdinand catch the nippy striker enough for him to need to shrug off Rio's challenge, so that Vidic can steam in alongside and rob the ball?

The burden of proof is on you. Show us one video where the defender is sprinting at full pelt after a dribbler but the dribbler is still opening up the gap, and tell us what you were doing to achieve that within PES 2014, and all of this is put to bed.

 

[AIR92]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

I've always thought of the hold r1 button as the controlled sprint button anyway. I mean how fast can you run with the ball without the ball going further than 30 cm away from you?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

It does. Tapping R1 is much faster. Still not fast enough to keep ahead of Mertesacker and co though.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Go on then, how do I run in a straight line and open up the gap between me and the much slower defender? It's one thing saying we can hold a defender off, but why is the defender gaining on us when the stat deficit is so clear? Why can Ferdinand catch the nippy striker enough for him to need to shrug off Rio's challenge, so that Vidic can steam in alongside and rob the ball?

The burden of proof is on you. Show us one video where the defender is sprinting at full pelt after a dribbler but the dribbler is still opening up the gap, and tell us what you were doing to achieve that within PES 2014, and all of this is put to bed.

I do know how to beat a defender and stay ahead of them over a short distance with a pacey player by effectively using the shoulder buttons, but I haven't got the equipment nor a clue how to make a video of video game. Sorry.

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

I see people complaining about the commentary, agree its crap.

Then again commentary in real life is pretty crap these days anyway.

Commentators in general are boring and too politically correct. Only say nice things about certain players and hate players they don't know.

What a goal, what a save, what a tackle, amazing passing, what a special player, That was an outstanding goal for a decent finish. It's terrible.

FIFA's commentary is fucking awful, not as bad as PES but terrible, they just ramble on about whats happening in the real world and don't even follow the game properly anymore.

In terms of games, John Motson was great, he was the last good commentator. Clive Tyldsley was ok, but John champion and Martin Tyler and especially Alan Smith are annoying.

Commentators in the modern game just overhype everything, constantly all the time. Both games need a programming overhaul when it comes to commentary and i'm not getting my hopes up because commentary is not great these days anyway.

Commentary on Belgium television is great, i also love the BBC but all this is subjective.
What i don't understand is your comment about FIFA commentary, IMO that is great and certainly much better than the poor (English and French) PES commentary...
You say commentary on television is poor, perhaps maybe, but impossible that it is as poor as the one in PES.
The most ridiculous part: PLAYER NAME ... PAUSE... IS ALL OVER HIM.

 

[kiev123]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Not even remotely true.

Who is the fastest footballer with and without the ball?

It's a PESism that players are so slow with the ball. If you are multi-tapping R1, you should be pretty much as fast with as without the ball. In 2014 there's a huge loss of momentum when you do touch the ball, which is done to overcome the fact that it's actually quite easy for a runner from deep to break the offside trap. Two wrongs intended to make a right.

It's still the best football game I've played this generation, but let's not lose sight of the fact it gets a lot of stuff wrong too.

100% correct
YouTube - Pes 2014 demo catchup bug ?

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

100% correct
YouTube - Pes 2014 demo catchup bug ?

That doesn't exist in the version (UK PSN) I'm playing. In the demo R1 was somewhat hamstrung. In the game I'm playing now if you effectively pump R1 while approaching the ball there is no loss in momentum and the ball is knocked ahead.

 

[stuartyd]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

You can. All the tools are there to do it.

Yeah, you just need to hold R1, double click R1, hold R2, swivel the left stick followed by the right stick, press X then quickly press Y.
It's a football game but it's getting more like doing a Mortal Kombat finishing move to score a goal these days

 

[stuartyd]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

100% correct
YouTube - Pes 2014 demo catchup bug ?

Exactly what I'm getting. As soon as the attacker touches the ball there is a speed burst from the defender.

That doesn't exist in the version (UK PSN) I'm playing. In the demo R1 was somewhat hamstrung. In the game I'm playing now if you effectively pump R1 while approaching the ball there is no loss in momentum and the ball is knocked ahead.

Not working for me, especially the first time double click of R1 (Xbox)

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Yeah, you just need to hold R1, double click R1, hold R2, swivel the left stick followed by the right stick, press X then quickly press Y.
It's a football game but it's getting more like doing a Mortal Kombat finishing move to score a goal these days

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

That's not a good example, it's a combination of factors (most of which are still present in the full game - this is just a combination of all said factors at once).

If you pump R1, with each touch of the ball the player slows down and has to speed up to full pelt again. It's clear as day, it's why you had to go out of your way to say over short distances and couldn't say 'over any distance where I'm ahead of the slower defender'.

Someone please make a video in training mode or something, just show two players running in a straight line so that we can show Ipswich what he's not been able to see.

 

[Pere Ubu]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

Just try it yourself, you´ll see. It´s great because it only makes you keep positioning. People ara complayining against odd goals and now I think it´s because they can´t defend properly. They are used to rush in and they keep loosing position, giving away easy goals.

Do me a favour mate - if there's one thing I know how to do in PES, it's defend. Back when I used to play in PEEL I conceded the fewest goals in the league two seasons running. Scoring goals? Not so hot. But defending... my teams in PES are like Jose Mourinho's Inter.

Which is precisely why these buggy goals are so frustrating - they're the ONLY goals I'm conceding. Ideally, we'd have an attacking AI which was good enough to score proper goals against human players on a regular basis. Failing that, I'd be content with a well-disguised cheating AI which "forced" you to give up chances and concede goals, but at a realistic rate.

What I don't like is the current situation, where if I play a 30-minute game against a good side (or a fairly crappy side that Konami seems to think is a good side, like Milan or Inter or Fulham), I'll stop their forwards from creating any realistic chances at all... and then end up losing 3-1 because on THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS there was a rebound in the box and my defenders all froze, or the same CB who'd had Balotelli in his pocket for the whole game suddenly stopped tracking his run for no reason, only to start running again half a second later when it was too late.

Seriously, watch the replays carefully. You don't always see it, because the "cheat" often happens earlier in the attack than it did in PES2013 (probably to try and disguise it), and it's usually not the player you're controlling at the time who goes astray.

I know this is just how PES rolls, and has been for years. But at least code the game in a slightly more sophisticated way, so it doesn't destroy the realism. And the penalty box freakout / slowdown / go-to-sleep goals are just embarrassing - you used to get them in PES 2 and stuff, but they were more or less gone from the last few games. In 2013 it's unforgivable.

And the really terrible thing is, a lot of the goals I score come from similar fuck ups in the computer defence. It's like 99% of the game is a proper football simulation, but they forgot to simulate goals, and ended up chucking in some snidey code just to stop most games ending 0-0. I've scored some beauties, but a lot more stinkers.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread (NO PIRACY TALK, YOU WILL GET BANNED!)

That's not a good example, it's a combination of factors (most of which are still present in the full game - this is just a combination of all said factors at once).

If you pump R1, with each touch of the ball the player slows down and has to speed up to full pelt again. It's clear as day, it's why you had to go out of your way to say over short distances and couldn't say 'over any distance where I'm ahead of the slower defender'.

Someone please make a video in training mode or something, just show two players running in a straight line so that we can show Ipswich what he's not been able to see.

How far do you want or expect to easily run on a football pitch ahead of another athlete while in possession of a football? Usually these situations take place within one half of the football field. If we're talking the full length then I haven't got a clue. I don't play that type of football. The bottom line is all the tools are there for you to be able get past a defender and stay ahead of them as you approach the goal. What you do or don't do with them is up to you.