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PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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This thread should just be cleansed and locked until more news & demo is released. 201 pages of utter bollocks, arguments, false speculation, people moaning about Konami... :P
 
Konami is acting particularly slow this year.
We don't even have the official cover yet. We don't have a full list of features. We don't have many videos, almost none. Something's off.
 
F D B said:
Konami is acting particularly slow this year.
We don't even have the official cover yet. We don't have a full list of features. We don't have many videos, almost none. Something's off.
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Not the only game like that.
 
kouroux said:
Nice avatar Lami
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Thanks.

hitmanuk said:
I wasnt being disrespectful to anyone, i have seen Adam first hand on twitter biting peoples heads off including mine. I also dont hate anyone or anything including Konami or Adam.

I still stand by Konamis poor decision to hold info back when they are chasing FIFA for sales although I realize there is not much I or anyone can do about it.

Im not going into the argument of Adam being frustrated reg tweets, is it not his job? I get frustrated in my job where i get constant emails, messenger messages and phone calls all day everyday but its what I am paid to deliver (unless he's doing it for free then i take it back)
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I think he's doing an enormous job doing his best to respond to every single tweet, doing it after hours even.

Matty_17 said:
i dont see anything wrong in talking about konami and their strategy related to pes. also adam's tweets get posted here every other day so why shouldnt we talk about him/his actions in regards to the game (i've also had my head chewed by him on twitter for asking completely reasonable questions)
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If you've had your head chewed then why bring it here? Last I checked this is the PES thread, where we post about PES, the game, news, videos, pics, etc. This isn't and will never be about Adam or WENB.

Like I said, you have issues with either just take it to them. Don't bring it here.
 
Lami said:
If you've had your head chewed then why bring it here? Last I checked this is the PES thread, where we post about PES, the game, news, videos, pics, etc. This isn't and will never be about Adam or WENB.

Like I said, you have issues with either just take it to them. Don't bring it here.
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i'll just repeat the part you didnt respond to

"i dont see anything wrong in talking about konami and their strategy related to pes."
 
Matty_17 said:
'proper' manual doesnt mean the ball goes exactly where you aim at the exact power every time with no factors taken into account. it takes into account players stats and your EXECUTION (not decision) is altered by those stats, so things like balance, power, accuracy etc will all be handled diferently player to player

the difference with manual and assisted is that assisted changes/overrides what buttons you press, whilst manual absorbs what you press and then (based on player stats) determines how well that action will play out. huge difference
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HUGE difference, pass assists, even 1 bar, are a joke.
 
kouroux said:
In ideal world, what you described would be be the semi-assisted or semi-manual setting.Manual would imply that stats play a lesser role if nothing at all in the execution of passes and shots.
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it isn't called manual though, it's called pass assist off, or at 0. Pass assist means Konami helps you make bad passes by a combination of layer guided bullets, perfect weight, perfect angles eben off balance and, whats worse than any of that, it prevents your defense from cutting out the pass by making him ballwatch an easily gettable, predictable, assisted pass.

Konami will never take this out but for God's sake, call it what it is, training wheels for the casual gamer. A huge advantage when you hardly have to aim and just spam throughball all game. Game breaker online.
 
theCRO said:
A huge advantage when you hardly have to aim and just spam throughball all game. Game breaker online.
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truly game breaking. so many 'faults' that people have -- and have had over the years, from easy long shots, easy chip shots, easy finesse shots etc -- very often lay at the feet of the problem of pass assists.

i'm hard pressed to recall a manual game i played online in which i get mad or annoyed at my opponent, because i can respect whatever goals the opponent scores as it is a genuine accomplishment . with manual controls i can enjoy and appreciate even losing, on assisted controls i barely even enjoy winning
 
theCRO said:
it isn't called manual though, it's called pass assist off, or at 0. Pass assist means Konami helps you make bad passes by a combination of layer guided bullets, perfect weight, perfect angles eben off balance and, whats worse than any of that, it prevents your defense from cutting out the pass by making him ballwatch an easily gettable, predictable, assisted pass.

Konami will never take this out but for God's sake, call it what it is, training wheels for the casual gamer. A huge advantage when you hardly have to aim and just spam throughball all game. Game breaker online.
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I had "the other game" in mind when I said manual so I think you'll forgive me this one.
 
Again, my question...how much is it manual and how much is it stats?? As long as there are stats, it is not fully manual. The reason I'm not a huge fan of "the other game" is because of this issue, stats don't play a huge enough part in the players and I don't feel much difference in between the players as long as I (the gamer) play it correctly.

That's where it divides for me, you either get a simulation where stats play a huge part, or you get a game, where the gamer is the victor.
 
Don't know if already posted, but well........
BRL7pY9CYAE_psM.png:large
 
theCRO said:
it isn't called manual though, it's called pass assist off, or at 0. Pass assist means Konami helps you make bad passes by a combination of layer guided bullets, perfect weight, perfect angles eben off balance and, whats worse than any of that, it prevents your defense from cutting out the pass by making him ballwatch an easily gettable, predictable, assisted pass.

Konami will never take this out but for God's sake, call it what it is, training wheels for the casual gamer. A huge advantage when you hardly have to aim and just spam throughball all game. Game breaker online.
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You, and mostly everyone else, are talking about a mayor problem without even realising it: how easy it is to pass the ball all the way from one goal to another in PES.

Imho, your error is to blame the passing assistance for that problem, when it's more about the flawed positional layouts that allows free passing.
In other words, you blame it purely on the accuracy and excessive assistance (training wheels) of the ball passer, but the problem actually roots on the freedom of the receiver.
I'm not saying it's ok for all passes to reach their destination. I'm saying that, TACTICALLY, PES makes everthing it can to ensure your passes will success, independently of the level of assistance. This gives us the illusion that all assisted passes are perfect because the passer is heavily aided, when actually the receivers are.

To think that this can be solved by implementing a better passing system is reckoning half of the problem.
 
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xavi2009 said:
You, and mostly everyone else, are talking about a mayor problem without even realising it: how easy it is to pass the ball all the way from one goal to another in PES.

Imho, your error is to blame the passing assistance for that problem, when it's more about the flawed positional layouts that allows free passing.
In other words, you blame it purely on the accuracy and excessive assistance (training wheels) of the ball passer, but the problem actually roots on the freedom of the receiver.
I'm not saying it's ok for all passes to reach their destination. I'm saying that, TACTICALLY, PES makes everthing it can to ensure your passes will success, independently of the level of assistance. This gives us the illusion that all assisted passes are perfect because the passer is heavily aided, when actually the receivers are.

To think that this can be solved by implementing a better passing system is reckoning half of the problem.
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Very true. Players (specially the team is defending) aren't nearly aware enough of their surroundings, a lot of passes that should be intercepted or deflected on PES just find their receiver too comfortably.
Defenders and midfielders should be so aware that when you're the one making the pass you'd make a real effort in terms of accuracy and choosing your target.
 
Matty_17 said:
i'll just repeat the part you didnt respond to

"i dont see anything wrong in talking about konami and their strategy related to pes."
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Which part of keeping it respectful and under "constructive criticism" do you not understand?

Your next smartass post will see you out of here.

Period.
 
xavi2009 said:
You, and mostly everyone else, are talking about a mayor problem without even realising it: how easy it is to pass the ball all the way from one goal to another in PES.

Imho, your error is to blame the passing assistance for that problem, when it's more about the flawed positional layouts that allows free passing.
In other words, you blame it purely on the accuracy and excessive assistance (training wheels) of the ball passer, but the problem actually roots on the freedom of the receiver.
I'm not saying it's ok for all passes to reach their destination. I'm saying that, TACTICALLY, PES makes everthing it can to ensure your passes will success, independently of the level of assistance. This gives us the illusion that all assisted passes are perfect because the passer is heavily aided, when actually the receivers are.

To think that this can be solved by implementing a better passing system is reckoning half of the problem.
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Really, really SPOT ON, one of the few posts I've read here that spots one of the most important problems of the game. Something that's more important that any shiny new rendering engine or ankle tapes. This is of the utmost importance, but Konami hasn't done anything in years about it.

I've been saying the same for ages. For instance, when the opponent is pressing on your half and you start a counter you can ALWAYS pass straight to your strikers, they will be absolutely free of mark near the halfline, and even if you only have 1 striker up, he will receive totally free. 5 meters away there can be 4 defenders not anticipating the move, not pressing him, doing nothing. This totally breaks the idea of positional play and favours counters and counter-counters all the time. And it makes ACCURACY to be much higher than it should, specially in the midfield.

There is as well not enough context on the "passer" of the play: vision practically means nothing as any player can pass to players he would hardly see in real life, when you're pressed or pushed or there's contact passing with an average player should have a LOT more error, and 180º turns shouldn't practically exist... but it's far worse on the other side of the play! There is practically NO CONTEXT AT ALL in the receiver.

In real life if you pass the ball to a striker who has defenders around him the most probable thing, EVEN IF THE PASS IS PERFECT, is that defenders will push the receiver, or try to unbalance him, or foul him. For example: how many times we see an incredibly gifted player like Neymar receive with a defender kicking his ankles from behind? I've never seen that in PES. Truly shocking. We're talking about fundamentals of the play!

That's because the AI managing the positional play is absolutely primitive and hasn't changed in a decade. And all this "new engine" talk is crap if they don't take a new approach on things like this. And they haven't.
 
ss4_goku said:
Again, my question...how much is it manual and how much is it stats?? As long as there are stats, it is not fully manual. The reason I'm not a huge fan of "the other game" is because of this issue, stats don't play a huge enough part in the players and I don't feel much difference in between the players as long as I (the gamer) play it correctly.

That's where it divides for me, you either get a simulation where stats play a huge part, or you get a game, where the gamer is the victor.
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Stats play a huge part in 0 support passing, you need to weigh up every pass and not attempt tricky passes with players who have a weak pass. It's different threading the ball through with Modrić as opposed to Vukojević, like night and day.
 
xavi2009 said:
You, and mostly everyone else, are talking about a mayor problem without even realising it: how easy it is to pass the ball all the way from one goal to another in PES.

Imho, your error is to blame the passing assistance for that problem, when it's more about the flawed positional layouts that allows free passing.
In other words, you blame it purely on the accuracy and excessive assistance (training wheels) of the ball passer, but the problem actually roots on the freedom of the receiver.
I'm not saying it's ok for all passes to reach their destination. I'm saying that, TACTICALLY, PES makes everthing it can to ensure your passes will success, independently of the level of assistance. This gives us the illusion that all assisted passes are perfect because the passer is heavily aided, when actually the receivers are.

To think that this can be solved by implementing a better passing system is reckoning half of the problem.
Click to expand...


It's already fixed in toa great extent in 2013, 0 pass support fixes this issue. Which is why pass support players ought not to have that option online.
 
What Xavi2009 claims has nothing to do with pass assistance, but with positioning, defensive vision and anticipation.
 
@Drekkard you've hit the nail on the head. Most world class teams or any decent level team can pass the ball easily enough from one end to the other. The The reality is the opposition closing down your teammates on route to recieving a pass which happens almost all the time. Most passes in football can play out like rugby, being sideways, backwards and only every so often truly forwards into attacking mentality.

Rarely do we see more than 2-3 passes stringed together at long range forwards, whereas small passes can be stringed together in the 10-20+ with no real attacking purposes unless your barca.

Until we get even more direct control over teammates during attack ie sneaky little runs, staying offside then quickly back on before a pass etc and until the physical defensive side etc gets better passing may continue with these problems.

Knami certainly is aiming to rectify with many new features ie the momentum.
 
I dont get the big fuss with this, I understand they said they will give info on demo date and delayed it. But another game didnt even show vids of how next gen of its title will look like, or any other new features. The amount of info given to us now was in the old days never given to us. Alot of us r spoilt, have some patient guys gamescom is not far away too. One way or another you WILL get ur hands on pes to try it out as demo or in local stores as tryouts.
 
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