PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Gab_ said:
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QED.
 
Why evo-web, the oldest and biggest PES community don't have own representative on playtest - community day ??
 
IIHUII said:
Why evo-web, the oldest and biggest PES community don't have own representative on playtest - community day ??
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We can. It's just a matter of finding the right person though + timing and other things.
 
Found a screenshot, not sure if it's new...

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Edit: Can't get over the player likenesses this year...

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Have to admit, waxy faces do seem to be a symptom of the Fox Engine. Still, a generational leap from the burns victims with jagged shadows we got in PES 2013.

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It's just a design choice. It's a shader, they could just tone down all the specular etc if they wanted. Nothing to do with the engine.
 
For the most part I really can't complain, best-looking game I've seen this generation...


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PES 2014
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Nick1984 said:
Have to admit, waxy faces do seem to be a symptom of the Fox Engine. Still, a generational leap from the burns victims with jagged shadows we got in PES 2013.

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:THINK: Maybe i'm crazy, but .. I keep thinking that .. the football players get .. SWEATING?
 
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So, more or less, Chilean, Argentinian Leagues, Copa Sudamericana.

They were already confirmed one month by KONAMI Brasil president in an E3 interview, but they quickly edited the part where he talks about that. KONAMI clearly don't really want to talk licenses right now
 
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I've read and watched a lot about the new engine and all the available info about PES 2014, and I have been playing PES 2013 quite a lot lately.

I don't understand why people is so hyped. Specially about the new engine. Yes, I know, graphics will be much better, though if the gameplay of PES 2013 was supreme I wouldn't care for the graphics.

There are a number of big concerns I have with the game that will hardly get addressed and have little to do with a new graphics engine. Those are the main shortcomings that are killing PES 2013 for me:

Just mention that I play Professional difficulty and 0-1 bar assistance, depending on the day.

Awareness
The AI of players overall is pathetic in many ways. And pathetic is a fair word to describe it.

Lots of players won't even be aware that the ball is 1 meter away from them, or bypassing them. There are too many instances where a player fails to recognize where is the ball, or they would just stare to the horizon while it goes through their legs. It's depressing and something one wouldn't exepct at this time.

Watching how an elite defender is unable to intercept a ball that comes rolling from 20 meters and passes through his legs is childish stuff in terms of programming.

But the awareness problem is not only limited to ball-player intercourse, but also positioning. Sidebacks still break the offside for no reason, CBs fail to follow a striker and worse of all, sometimes they will just run away. I've seen my defenders run away of the are when a cross was coming. It's just incredible.

And there are too many instances where you have already lost the ball but 3 or 4 players will still run forward a couple of seconds. It's hard to understand AI is still at this level 6 or 7 years into this generation. Players seem to fail to recognize the most basic fundamentals of awareness.

Sometimes you guide your player to your opponent and your defender passes exactly between the ball and the striker, cleanly, without even trying to stop the ball or the carrier. This is basic stuff, guys. And it requires drastic measures that we haven't heard of.

FOX engine will solve nothing of this, because this depends on specific developed AI for the game, and unless they have written from scratch all the AI (which I doubt), most probably all of this problems will persist in the game. I would love to get Konami developers talk about this and how are they going to solve it, but I fear all the resources will be focused on the graphics engine and the collision and dribbling systems and little will be done about it. I hope I'm wrong.

Accuracy
The game needs to change a lot the way passing works. For a game whose fans like to define as a simulation versus other available options, the number of bullshit passing in the game is astonishing.

I'm tired of watching defenders do perfect passes from inside the area (even by turning 180º). The game is too prone to counterattacking because passing your way out of danger is extremely simple. I did a test las night, everytime I won the ball I would pass it straight ahead, no matter what. I had 99% success with this, only missed one pass. This means that no matter the tactical disposition, the players position, etc... whenever you win the ball is extremely easy to do the first one or two passes and get yourself in the opponent field. It's almost automatic.

This is due to terrible scripting in passing and a misconception of accuracy and vision. A defender who takes the ball in the own area will HARDLY do in real life a pass to a midfielder through 2 opponents. In the game, I do it all the time. No matter which player I am.

In fact, that has been possible forever in the game and it's the reason why all teams end up playing counter-attack easily. In real life the opponent will read better the situation and would close gaps for those passes, but also the defenders would hardly do them, because the risk involved is too much. Plus, in real life defenders don't have this laser-accuracy that all players show in the game.

It's impossible to avoid this if you're on the other side. I played with a friend and we created a game "how many times can you really avoid your opponent to make their way out of pressure?". It was impossible. At any time you just press X and forward and magically deliver the ball to a forward or midfielder who is never marked. This is also due to the pathetic awareness and positioning of the game. Strikers always receive alone in their own field. That's just wrong, this is negating all anticipation and positioning work by the defenders!

Plus, I don't want to play manual passing. I served my years of that in the last years, and it's not what I want at all. Manual passing at the end is a about gamer skills, not footballing skills.

I want passing to be a lot less accurate taking CONTEXT into account. And not context only in the case of "there's someone hanging from your neck, your pass will be bad". I want context like "a defender inside the box attempting to deliver a 20 yard pass to a midfielder that has 2 or 3 defenders nearby (not closing him, just around) should miss the pass by some yards, which can end in an interception or simply a bad pass that the receptor needs to backtrack to pick up. This is the kind of things that right now in the game are absolutely wrong.

And please, make VISION stats count for something. It's ridiculous to have those 180º turning perfect pixel passes. Those should end 9/10 times in a completely wrong direction or a bad impact to the ball.

FOX engine, again, has nothing to do with this, we're talking about the core of the game engine here, and I hope they do something about this. As long as they don't radically transform passing accuracy by introducing context and really sticking to stats, the game will be a matter of counter-counter-attacking, because passing ahead is bloody simple and requires no gamer skills nor footballing skills.

CPU AI design
Most of us play single player. I've been playing footy games for so long that I'm extremely bored of the one dimensional AI we have to face each season. And it all comes down to the very basic and cheap and lazy approach that programmers have had with this during all this years. We haven't witnessed a single solid advance in this category in a decade.

The CPU AI is only loosely based on player stats, and to create difficulty it only resorts to stats boosting and simple patterns of play that are the same for all the teams and players. This is how at the end all matches end up being very similar and the way CPU plays and scores is always the same.

We all have experienced the way CPU plays exactly the same no matter which team is it. Wins the ball, runs ahead, through pass to the center, run to goal. Or pass to the wing and cross. There's nothing else in the game in terms of building play. And EVERYTIME the CPU wins a ball, they simply pass out of danger no matter how and run ahead like mad. That's because of the accuracy I talked in the previous point.

On the other side the boosting of stats is a drama, something that should be erradicated from this games once and for all. At some point, you realizae there is speeed catching up, perfect pixel long and through passing no matter the player stats and the usual and ridiculous bending of stats that result in things like "your goalkeeper won't save a thing and the opponent goalkeeper is always the best on earth". We all know it.

They should stick to stats as they are and avoid boosting of any kind. I don't want Messi to be caught EVERY SINGLE TIME by ALL DEFENDERS on a free run to goal. Yes, I know, respecting stats would make playing with Messi very easy, right? Exactly, that is how it must be! He's the best player in the world, he must be almost impossible to contain. You want the game to be difficult? Play against him with Deportivo! It's the only way stats make sense. The moment that the CPU start to ignore or boost stats, to me the game is dead.

Because right now I could face Iran in the World Cup final and they would behave almost like Germany. This is so off-putting.

And it would be great to build exclusively around player stats and TEAM TRAITS. We need to have TEAM traits (or whatever) that define how they play against lesser, equal, and better teams. Something that works, because right now I don't feel a difference at all betwen teams, and I 've played 2 seasons of Football Life.

We are bored of that! I want to feel big differences in playing different teams.

And up to now I haven't heard anything about it. FOX engine has nothing to do with it. Will I love playing the same old patterns of play with just better graphics and collisions? Will you?

And don't get me started on aerial play vs the CPU or the way my players are the only ones that stumble...

Just my concerns about PES 2014, which are very similar to my concerns about PES 2013, 2012, 2011... no matter the engine.
 
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The new engine is not only about Fox Engine and graphics

About player awareness. I completely agree, players look like retard not being able to stop a simlpe ball rolling. Again, like you said positioning.

Passing accuracy i don't agree. Which setting did you use? Why don't you try 1 bar or 2 bars if you don't want to play manual?
Anyway, 0 bars is not manual in the sense of FIfa 08 manual, it still takes stats into account. Try it.

CPU AI design i agree with you completely because every team, especially at high difficulty levels play the same, the same throughball spam, the same run forward gameplay. Professional makes it more balanced, you should try that.

Why are we excited?

I can speak for myself. I am really tired to see the same old animations, broken collision system, etc and the first videos made me realize finally we will have something fresh to see.

Gameplay will be judged later
 
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Exactly, judging by the videos it's a brand new game, the leap will be bigger than the one between PES 2010 and PES 2011.
 
Ameppe said:
The new engine is not only about Fox Engine and graphics

About player awareness. I completely agree, players look like retard not being able to stop a simlpe ball rolling. Again, like you said positioning.

Passing accuracy i don't agree. Which setting did you use? Why don't you try 1 bar or 2 bars if you don't want to play manual?
Anyway, 0 bars is not manual in the sense of FIfa 08 manual, it still takes stats into account. Try it.

CPU AI design i agree with you completely because every team, especially at high difficulty levels play the same, the same throughball spam, the same run forward gameplay. Professional makes it more balanced, you should try that.

Why are we excited?

I can speak for myself. I am really tired to see the same old animations, broken collision system, etc and the first videos made me realize finally we will have something fresh to see.

Gameplay will be judged later
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I do play 0 or 1 bar assist! And Professional difficulty. I know I can lower my accuracy setting it at 0 bars, but as I am a manual veteran, it is still too accurate for me, and what about CPU.? you can't "put them at 0 bars", their accuracy is just too high to balance the lack of any ireal ntelligence in the background.

Plus, the problem with CPU accuracy is not only in passing, they CAN'T miss a header pass, their ratio of chances->goal is always 5 or 6 times better than yours no matter the teams, the goalie saves more than yours, etc... It is ridiculous.
 
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New preview

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...pes-2014s-dramatic-change-of-tactics-pay-off/

PES 2014 is arguably the biggest shake up in the franchise's history, but to keep expectations in check let's focus on what it isn't.

It isn't a silver bullet. It isn't a new way to play football games. It isn't on PS4 or Xbox One. It isn't a visual leap that defies belief. It isn't blessed with a new mode or licence that changes everything. It isn't likely to topple FIFA 14.

Not yet.

PES 2014 is the first step to all these goals. It's brave. It's fresh. It's challenging. It's instantly playable, a credible rival for FIFA 14 on PS3 and a promising base for next generation development.

Our impressions are based on three hours with 80-85% complete code. Bayern Munich and Santos were the only playable sides, with further licences to be confirmed later on. It took us 20 or so hours to adjust to PES 2013's subtleties and fine control, so this is largely a gut reaction to a game that's actively being tweaked.

Obviously, we can't give you the PS3 pad so explaining the 'feel' of PES 2014 requires a mix of technical terminology, imagination and clichés - like describing the taste of wine, but not allowing you a sip.

It's a more combative game, built around the new M.A.S.S. system (Motion Animation Stability System). Players will automatically hold out an arm to hold off an advancing rival, or jostle for a 50-50 ball. You can even perform an off-ball nudge manually by using the right stick when not in possession.

When powerful defensive midfielder Javi Martinez stepped into a challenge, the attacker's momentum stopped dead. Martinez 'feels' like real-life: a sturdy defensive shield with decent passing ability. In contrast, technically gifted midfielder Schweinsteiger was able to shield the ball from opponents via subtle rotations of the left stick - arching through 360˚, using his body shape and tight control to shield the ball.

Dribblers like Ribery or Neymar feel more fleet-footed, capable of sharp directional turns, throwing defenders off balance. Again, all you need are deft left stick nudges and bursts of speed, not fancy tricks. To counter this, centre backs like Dante are strong, balanced and firm in the tackle - brushing aside a hesitant attacker. The game has been calibrated to encourage cat-and-mouse one-on-one situations. Defenders and attackers choose between low risk / low return or high risk / high return strategies.

For example, on the edge of the penalty area, you could use Neymar's agility to turn sharply and give a 'safe' short pass out wide before a defender gets near. Or you could gamble on Neymar's close-control, draw in two defenders, and burst into the box using the new trick system. You no longer hold L2 and perform Street Fighter-style stick taps like PES 2013, but use more intuitive right stick sweeps (controlling 'weight shift') in conjunction with the left stick (to indicate the 'ball delivery direction').

Quarter circle rotations perform intuitive step overs, while more complex movements allow drag backs, Marseille spins and rapid ball-shifting feints. Perform the wrong trick relative to the defender's position, or time it too early / late, and you're easy fodder for the defender - who can claim the ball for a devastating break.

PES 2013's complex, multi-button, defending has been simplified. Hold X and the left stick to stand off you man (low risk), add R1 to increase pressure and move closer (medium risk) and / or double-tap x to make a tackle (high risk) - even if the ball is nowhere near. Square button calls in a second defender to help. As ever, it's a battle of timing relative to your defender's attributes.

'Combination play' is a new feature, allowing you to set movement patterns for your AI team mates. You choose from a menu of behaviours e.g. overload down the left, attack centrally, swap positions etc. You pick where these movements occur by clicking on a pitch diagram split into 11 squares. For example, you could set your full back to overlap you at the edge of the opponent's box. This behaviour can be manually activated when in the correct zone by double tapping L2.

It's a powerful new feature, but is currently poorly explained and hidden in the tactics menu. Konami assure us the final game will offer a tutorial and it will be clear when your (AI or human) opponent is using such tactics - giving you the opportunity to set your own counter measures.

Passing is theoretically 360˚ with manual control (subject to your level of auto-assist), so it's possible to play devastating lofted balls, but also misplace a relatively simple pass under pressure. For high-speed control, you need to play the way you're facing or exploit the stats of technically gifted players - who can 'kill' awkward passes fast and release the ball quicker.

It's a slower and more cautious game than either PES 2013 or FIFA 14, but doesn't require the ruinous levels of concentration you might fear. Bottom line: it's realistic and you won't sweat blood to get results from top teams like Bayern Munich.

We scored a sumptuous goal using an L1 + triangle through ball to break the offside trap (note: you can manually bring your line forward for a few seconds to create offsides by double-tapping the d-pad right), allowing Neymar to race through, chipping the onrushing keeper with an L1+square chip. It doesn't sound unusual, but showcases the nuanced animation and passing. A skilful pass has more chance of 'getting around the back', leaving defenders off balance.

Neymar took the lofted pass in his stride, barely losing acceleration. The transition between animations is much more natural, whereas in PES 2013, you could almost see the player switching 'off' between frames. Better yet, when the keeper rushed out to the edge of the area, Neymar's chip looked improvised - a lofted, skewing scoop with the outside of the boot, angled around the keeper's body. Once again, it's in contrast to the more prescribed animations of PES 2013.

The controls are being tweaked, but you'll be able to perform curved passes called the Advanced Through Pass. You should be able to spin a lofted through ball into the path of an attacker, evoking shades of Pirlo or Beckham. The more you play, the more you notice unique, context-sensitive animations related to collisions, feints or stumbles. Our favourite is the way a midfielder will stick out a leg to stop a speeding pass. Even if he can't trap it, the ball gets redirected, making midfield play more natural and chaotic.

Much has been made of the new Fox Engine visuals, but it's important to normalise your expectations. To be clear, it's a sizeable leap over PES 2013. The stadiums look incredible, with much-improved crowds (who'll leave the stadium if you're getting hammered) and rich grass textures. Up close, the player likenesses are genuinely amazing. 'Ridiculous' is how we described Arjen Robben's likeness in our notepad. Bald players look even more realistic, since hair is still a slight reality breaker. Skin texturing is sensational: you can see pockmarks, age lines, freckles... even pores. Ditto kit texture, and the direction of the cloth weave.

Zoomed out to 'wide' view, it's a more familiar experience. It's hard to compare without seeing them side-by-side, but PES 2014 comfortably matches our mental image of FIFA 13 on PS3 - if not slightly more alive with off-the-ball animation. However, it's firmly within the realms of belief, so don't expect to be blown away. The technology isn't just cosmetic, and you can place the camera manually using sliders to adjust height, angle etc on a scale of 1-10.

What's harder to judge is the new Heart system, with key players able to influence the crowd - and vice versa. Your players' emotional state will have its own stat, visible via a glowing heart icon in the tactics screen. The idea is that a goalkeeper like Neuer can make an amazing save, causing the crowd to go wild and lifting his team. The momentum shift should be visible, as your AI team move more aggressively off the ball or snap into tackles. The crowd reaction will be region specific, so Brazilian crowds go wild for skills and a UK crowd for, say, a last-ditch tackle.

In reality, it was hard to notice this effect. In any case, making a momentum shift too pronounced is at risk of unbalancing the game. Konami are aware of this, and hope the momentum system is a realistic way to balance out sides. For example, by reflecting vociferous home crowds, so you can achieve results like Celtic's famous 2-1 Champions League win over Barcelona. It's a nice idea and we'd welcome anything that broke the hegemony of Real/Barca/Bayern online games, but we need to play a lot more to assess its success.

Set pieces are equally controversial, using Tiger-Woods style direction arrows. One analogue stick controls direction, the other curve. At E3, it was way too easy to score at corners, but this has been tweaked to be less precise. The result is that set pieces feel a little too haphazard and confusing, but this may just be a symptom of our short hands-on. Oh, and the keepers made some atrocious 'saves', letting relatively easy shots pass metres from their head. Again, it's a tuning issue, so we'll reserve judgement.

It's too early to say if Konami have addressed problem areas in presentation and the game's relative inaccessibility to newcomers. PES 2013's tutorials were welcome, but cruelly tough (cue 'Knuckle Shot' nightmares). In our hands-on, the main menu was locked out, but we're assured these areas are being revamped. In fact, it's a key area for the new UK-based PES developers FCS (football content studio). Their aim is to make the game feels more western, and less riddled by Japanese oddity. Whether this will manifest itself for PES 2014 is unclear, as the entire FCS team were in Japan on a three-month training secondment during our visit.

New producer Kei Masuda promises revamped Master League and Become a Legend modes, claiming they had become too complex and can now be played at a 'good tempo' - hopefully, they'll scrap the stat-boosting magic boots from PES 2013. You'll also be able to manage other clubs and national teams. Master League Online will be overhauled, and online play will feature new anti-cheating measures. Konami claim to have a 'significant' licensing announcement to make - which had been secured only days before our visit - but we doubt it's a full Premier League or Bundesliga licence.

Overall, we greatly enjoyed what we played and caught ourselves mentally practicing button inputs after we put down the pad - always a good sign. No two games felt the same, new animations were still surprising us 2-3 hours in and goals displayed impressive variety. We'll stop short of declaring it a revelation without spending considerably more time with final code, but this is an assured step to restoring critical - or rather, visual - parity with FIFA.

PES 2014 isn't guaranteed to turn the tide against its key rival, but it is symbolic of a developer that's learnt to listen and adapt. Whether Konami can do so quick enough is a question for another day, but these are promising foundations. All good teams start by focusing on their own errors, not obsessing about the opposition.
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drekkard said:
I do play 0 or 1 bar assist! And Professional difficulty. I know I can lower my accuracy setting it at 0 bars, but as I am a manual veteran, it is still too accurate for me, and what about CPU.? you can't "put them at 0 bars", their accuracy is just too high to balance the lack of any ireal ntelligence in the background.

Plus, the problem with CPU accuracy is not only in passing, they CAN'T miss a header pass, their ratio of chances->goal is always 5 or 6 times better than yours no matter the teams, the goalie saves more than yours, etc... It is ridiculous.
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I don't find CPU at professional to be so precise. It is unreal at top player and superstar, but professional is fairly balanced to me. You should have tried pes 2012, it was so much worse than this i had to play at regular.

Anyway real intelligence is really difficult to have in sports game. Isn't racing games based around the same idea? At high levels opponent cars never make a mistake, run faster than your car, etc
 
I meant Top difficulty, sorry, my bad.

Anyway, there's a difference between having little intelligence and having none. PES13 feels primitive in all AI aspects, totally outdated and the way players will run away from the ball or simply stand there watching it don't happen in any sports game I am aware of.

Rubber band logic in racing games is precisely the reason why I dont play them.
 
drekkard said:
I meant Top difficulty, sorry, my bad.

Anyway, there's a difference between having little intelligence and having none. PES13 feels primitive in all AI aspects, totally outdated and the way players will run away from the ball or simply stand there watching it don't happen in any sports game I am aware of.

Rubber band logic in racing games is precisely the reason why I dont play them.
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That is more to do with player awareness and it seems like at this early stage Pes 2014 has some player awareness issues too, not at Pes 2013 levels but it's still there, especially about goalkeepers. Look at those recent Pes 2014 videos. Konami said they are working on it but who knows how much they can fix that.

About stats boost against CPU, Top Player is not fair, try to play Professional. Maybe it doesn't remove the boosting stats issue but it's more realistic.
 
I'm not too sure about how skills work. Sounds very 'Fight Night', where you can try and throw a hook and end up throwing an uppercut instead. Sounds as though it'll be very easy to pull the wrong trick.

However, 'no two games play the same' is a phrase often bandied around by developers, but when actual unbiased testers say it, I think that's very good news. Overall, it sounds positive; there's nothing I'm really 'worried' about.

They're wrong about one thing: PES is going to topple Fifa on the PC/PS3/Xbox 360 at least. That's for damn sure.
 
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The Doctor76 said:
I'm not too sure about how skills work. Sounds very 'Fight Night', where you can try and throw a hook and end up throwing an uppercut instead. Sounds as though it'll be very easy to pull the wrong trick.

However, 'no two games play the same' is a phrase often bandied around by developers, but when actual unbiased testers say it, I think that's very good news. Overall, it sounds positive; there's nothing I'm really 'worried' about.

They're wrong about one thing: PES is going to topple Fifa on the PC/PS3/Xbox 360 at least. That's for damn sure.
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Only on Pc, especially with the Steam release. Ps3-360 it's still Fifa market.
 
Ameppe said:
That is more to do with player awareness and it seems like at this early stage Pes 2014 has some player awareness issues too, not at Pes 2013 levels but it's still there, especially about goalkeepers. Look at those recent Pes 2014 videos. Konami said they are working on it but who knows how much they can fix that.

About stats boost against CPU, Top Player is not fair, try to play Professional. Maybe it doesn't remove the boosting stats issue but it's more realistic.
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That's my main concern with the series to be honest. I really hope Konami can sort it out. Even though I like PES2013 I can't play it, because I'm stuck between difficulties. Professional is clearly the most balanced, fair difficulty but I find it too easy. If the game's too easy then I've no motivation to play it.

By contrast, like you say, Top Player and above is unbearable in stat boosting, and downright bizarre events swinging things the COM's way. Either way, there's no difficulty that I can enjoy. I've been hoping a new engine might iron this out a bit but I'm not so sure.
 
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