PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Well, not all games use scripted events.

The example of heavily scripted game is Call of Duty. After playing it once, you never play Single player again, because AI will always act the same way and enemies will spawn from same positions, etc.

Now compare this with first FEAR where AI, even scripted, was doing stuff out of ordinary thinking box. That's why I finished FEAR 5 times and AI in all of those tries acted differently, when I changed approach.

Now regarding sports games, the second should be priority. Randomness, not scripted events, no stats boosting making Ronaldo look like a pussy vs Swansea defenders, etc.

I don't see cheating in Top Spin, NBA 2k, NHL, didn't see much of it in PES5/6 2009 and 2010. I did see it in Need for Speed series, TOCA, Race Driver though.

But why the f**k KONAMI and EA now added Rubber Band AI to their football games is beyond me! It should stay with racing games.

As to what the hell rubber band ai is:

Rubber Band AI is a hidden feature in racing and sports games that allows computer-controlled opponents to catch up no matter how far behind they are. It is intended to keep challenging the player.

Overview

Rubber band AI refers to an artificial intelligence found in titles such as racing or sports titles that is designed to prevent players from getting too far ahead of computer-controlled opponents. When done well, such AIs can maintain a consistent level of challenge from the beginning of an event to the end. However, when done poorly, it becomes evident that the game is bending its own rules in the computer's favor, either by temporarily enhancing the CPU's abilities, inhibiting the abilities of the player's character(s), or both. As an example of how rubber band AI is designed, a complete description of the algorithm for such found in the Nintendo GameCube game Mario Kart: Double Dash!! is available in US Patent 7278913.

Although commonly associated with racing games such as the aforementioned Mario Kart series, similar AIs are also featured in both sports simulations and arcade titles. For example, in a football game, the opponent's quarterback may suddenly become un-blitzable when that team is behind by sixteen or more points. NBA Jam's rubber banding is notorious; if the AI team is behind, they will shove the player mercilessly and drive past them for unblockable dunks, while the player's own dunks and shots suddenly become noticeably less accurate.

Read it carefully...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I think when people talk about scripting in PES they are referring to apparent stat boosting for the CPU and stat decreasing for your own team, usually when the CPU really needs a goal or your team should lose to keep the league table close.

In a way it tries to simulate momentum but its too extreme and could be done much better.
1: Not all teams/players have that fighting spirit when going behind. Whether a CPU player gets a stat boost should depend on the mentality rating. If going a goal down give high mentality players a boost but on the other hand low mentality players should get a decrease, losing a goal often has that "here we go again" feeling for players, especially in lesser teams. I'm sure this is how it worked on the older gen games. Somewhere once upon a time I read that after some keepers conceded a few goals in the old gen games, they would lose confidence and start playing worse. These days most keepers become super keepers if the score needs to be kept down for the sake of an exciting game.

2: If the CPU does get a boost, scale it on mentality but keep it minimal, don't turn an average player into Messi.

3: If I go ahead early or midway through the game, don't decrease my player stats. If anything, I should get a short boost as my team should be filled with more confidence now. Perhaps make my team more defensive minded to simulate defending a lead and keeping my attacking chances down but don't make good players misplace passes, ignore the ball, miss easy chances or have keepers turn into retards. I can accept a stat decrease in the last 5-10 mins of a match to simulate nervousness, but again base it on mentality and keep it minimal.

4. If the CPU really needs a goal I don't want to see faultless superspeed blind 1-2 passing or 35 yard rockets from guys with shot power 75. It would be much more realistic to see the CPU go with a more attacking formation and pump hopeful balls into the box, challenging me to defend for my life that way.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Sorry but i strongly disagree with you. Old pes cheat to, NBA 2k series = chronic notorious cheater way worse than pes can ever be unless you are playing on easy.

NHL does not need cheating since speed is a stat that has no effect.

I dont see the point of your rubber band ai and i don't know why you are so angry. Pes AI is stupid and simple and with out scripting its no fun. The scripting stand out through bad gameplay and design. the game needs better AI or some logic to make it fun.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The thing is, it's well hidden then. As I wasn't frustrated while playing either game as I am with PES 2012.

The cheating is obnoxious in that game. You can almost SEE the cheating script in action, flying out of monitor.

If it was masked half as well as it is on FIFA, no-one would complain as much... Or am I wrong?

As for Rubber Band AI, read it. It's exactly what happens on Pro Evolution Soccer 2012.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I agree with ollywolly. The way the CPU AI should try to come back from being a goal down or attack you when playing at home for example, should be down to the formation they choose and the offensive meter. That little bar that you can increase or decrease a few notches. On FIFA it's Ultra Defensive through to Ultra Attacking.

Those are the only things that should change, along with abandonding the team's default tactics in favour of something more direct, or plain just different. Not all teams change their style but in different circumstances, I'd be happy for it on a computer game.

E.g. parking the bus might occur if they're a goal up and want to defend the lead. It shouldn't be the starting point, unless it's a really poor team maybe.

I think the main area that's affected, apart from shot accuracy is plain old player responsiveness. That's the last thing that should happen. It should all be tactical, as said above.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I get the problems with AI and scripting but all games have them. Everything that moves is accorfing to a predetermined path just the amount of variables differs from one game to to the next.

PES AI is brutal it reacts in such a fast manner when the need arises that it is impossible to stop. They need to fix that and the way the AI attacks 2 attackers against 4 defenders is still far too successful.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

ollywolly said:
I think when people talk about scripting in PES they are referring to apparent stat boosting for the CPU and stat decreasing for your own team, usually when the CPU really needs a goal or your team should lose to keep the league table close.

In a way it tries to simulate momentum but its too extreme and could be done much better.
1: Not all teams/players have that fighting spirit when going behind. Whether a CPU player gets a stat boost should depend on the mentality rating. If going a goal down give high mentality players a boost but on the other hand low mentality players should get a decrease, losing a goal often has that "here we go again" feeling for players, especially in lesser teams. I'm sure this is how it worked on the older gen games. Somewhere once upon a time I read that after some keepers conceded a few goals in the old gen games, they would lose confidence and start playing worse. These days most keepers become super keepers if the score needs to be kept down for the sake of an exciting game.

2: If the CPU does get a boost, scale it on mentality but keep it minimal, don't turn an average player into Messi.

3: If I go ahead early or midway through the game, don't decrease my player stats. If anything, I should get a short boost as my team should be filled with more confidence now. Perhaps make my team more defensive minded to simulate defending a lead and keeping my attacking chances down but don't make good players misplace passes, ignore the ball, miss easy chances or have keepers turn into retards. I can accept a stat decrease in the last 5-10 mins of a match to simulate nervousness, but again base it on mentality and keep it minimal.

4. If the CPU really needs a goal I don't want to see faultless superspeed blind 1-2 passing or 35 yard rockets from guys with shot power 75. It would be much more realistic to see the CPU go with a more attacking formation and pump hopeful balls into the box, challenging me to defend for my life that way.
Click to expand...

Interesting post. I remember a racing game i used to plaz on the psx dazs, Andretti Racing. It was very strange to see that when i wasnt on first position, the AI drivers were mere idiots. But when i was in first position it was a hell of a race, all drivers trying to pass me. But in some way in that period it helped a lot to keep the race hard to win. In football games tho i prefer a more realistic approach, like the ones you proposed.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

News this morning - Konami are opening a London studio.

Link
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

ollywolly said:
I think when people talk about scripting in PES they are referring to apparent stat boosting for the CPU and stat decreasing for your own team, usually when the CPU really needs a goal or your team should lose to keep the league table close.

In a way it tries to simulate momentum but its too extreme and could be done much better.
1: Not all teams/players have that fighting spirit when going behind. Whether a CPU player gets a stat boost should depend on the mentality rating. If going a goal down give high mentality players a boost but on the other hand low mentality players should get a decrease, losing a goal often has that "here we go again" feeling for players, especially in lesser teams. I'm sure this is how it worked on the older gen games. Somewhere once upon a time I read that after some keepers conceded a few goals in the old gen games, they would lose confidence and start playing worse. These days most keepers become super keepers if the score needs to be kept down for the sake of an exciting game.

2: If the CPU does get a boost, scale it on mentality but keep it minimal, don't turn an average player into Messi.

3: If I go ahead early or midway through the game, don't decrease my player stats. If anything, I should get a short boost as my team should be filled with more confidence now. Perhaps make my team more defensive minded to simulate defending a lead and keeping my attacking chances down but don't make good players misplace passes, ignore the ball, miss easy chances or have keepers turn into retards. I can accept a stat decrease in the last 5-10 mins of a match to simulate nervousness, but again base it on mentality and keep it minimal.

4. If the CPU really needs a goal I don't want to see faultless superspeed blind 1-2 passing or 35 yard rockets from guys with shot power 75. It would be much more realistic to see the CPU go with a more attacking formation and pump hopeful balls into the box, challenging me to defend for my life that way.
Click to expand...

This is how momentum, stats-boosts and tactical changes should be handled.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Gab_ said:
Not sure what you mean with scripted? Obviously all AI behavior has to be created. What you do not need to do though is to boost things to make the game more level. It's that simple.
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for example lets see NBA 2K games, in these days if u down for example 10 goals against your opponent in the 2nd quarter on hardest level, u can turn off the game, u already lost, no way for the come back and vica versa.

and here in PES the whole stuff stinks like hell, for example i play against my friend he could beat the shit out of me but he cant because the cpu wont let him even Messi shoots like a 2 year old kid and the list of cheating goes on wich holds him back to score even when there is no keeper on the goal line just the AI make sure the 0-1, 1-1, 1-2 scoreline-storyline is scripted for that match ...but why is it scripted if i play against a HUMAN? i dunno...back in the ps2 era, there was only cpu cheating but no such thing as a scripted match , it was RANDOM and thats why i love PES, random matches, random goals, random outcomes...hmm just like in real life not like FIFA where every shot , every goal was the same but now....PES is just fu*ked up in a completly different way its just predictible when it comes to scripting


this is what dissapears when u use Jenkey's tool, only pure skills left ;) real competition
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Konami should be aware that Angel di Maria is all left foot (like Robben) and would do anything to not shoot, let alone cross with his weaker right foot.

The Neymar scoop lob looks a bit awkward too but nice video overall.

Was that Leandro Damiao?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Much more impressive video in my opinion, that's the sort of thing they should be releasing, although some better music would have been preferential.

Though England were showing a little too much technical ability for my liking :P

That Messi dink was beautiful.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I have a question regarding the mods on PC that remove the scripting. Some people say that without scripting to play against the CPU on top-player or superstar would be boring because there would be no challenge.

Is that true?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

tobi said:
Konami should be aware that Angel di Maria is all left foot (like Robben) and would do anything to not shoot, let alone cross with his weaker right foot.

The Neymar scoop lob looks a bit awkward too but nice video overall.

Was that Leandro Damiao?
Click to expand...

and the keeper just didnt give a f**k
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Those nutmegs better not be scripted too hard. It would be pretty annoying if the defender automatically put the legs apart just because someone is good at doing that "trick". Video looks pretty good. Shots looks pretty boring and same as always. Back spin shots galore.
 
Thought that video was the tits, first time I can remember when the cinema like cut scenes animations matched the real gameplay. I remember the intro to we7i and thinking, I can't wait till games ply like this looks. Well I think we are there mates....


Big question, can we Create or assign player i.d. Attributes or skills to new or existing players?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Seeing Di Maria make the flick with the right foot made my eyes bleed, how can they not see it's so wrong because he's SO left footed.
edit: Same logic with Neymar who used in real life his right foot for all the nutmeg but in this PES he uses the left one.It may seem to be nothing for most but for it's too obvious of a flaw
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Yeah, the goalkeeper's reaction in the last goal was retarded. I hope he was deliberately turned off to allow this goal for show.

Neymar tunneling the ball through one defender is ok, but tunneling again through the second defender is unrealistic.

Ronaldo sidewayed the ball and outrun a defender which is realistic but then he tries to get the loose ball while another defender is storming in. In that situation as it was outside of the goal-area a real defender would have slided into the ball preventing Ronaldo to get the ball.

Then there was a scene when a player made a pass to another and the other tried to merely walk slowly with the ball, turn around and make a throughpass into the goal-area. The animation was off for that slow walk, he made far too many steps as if he would jog/run but not getting off the spot. Obviously different animations for walking and slow/fast jogging are missing.

Messi's, Robben's and Ribery's actions were spot on.

The wrong foot issues are disturbing.

Despite my niggling, it was a nice video. PES 2013's gameplay seems to be a bit different from PES 2012 which is good.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Isslander said:
@Kouroux http://youtu.be/bT8UXYvBhzI this video of Di Maria should make your eyes bleed as well, so be warned.
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I have no problem with a player attempting and succeeding with a shot on his weaker foot.I have a pb when the player does some tricks and dribbles with his weak foot.
You surely do realize the difference in use between shooting and dribbling with your weaker foot right ?
 
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